A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default (nWoD) Slashers!

    So. After reading The Slasher supplement for Hunters, an interesting thought struck my brain: to run a Chronicle, but where the players are the Slashers. Basically, the whole thing would be a huge game of cat and mouse, where they try to evade the police (and, possibly, Hunters), while fulfilling their dark urges. Now, I know that this sounds wierd, and pretty disturbing, to boot. But, I figure WoD is a game that's entirely about personal horror, and few things could be more effective than playing a murderer.

    Now, the main problem I'm facing here would be "how do I realistically get a bunch of crazed psychopaths to actually stick with each other and act as a group?". To answer this, I came up with the following.

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    Now, the point of the story would be that the Slashers aren't acting in a completely independent fashion. Rather, they, or at least the leader, would be following the orders of a mysterious figure, which directs him to various targets. Now, if you'll bear with me for a moment, I understand that Changelings are people who have been taken across to Faerie-Land and tortured for thousands of years, until they are transformed into faeries themselves. If I'm wrong on this, please tell me, because this is relevant to the central conceit to the plot. The point of this is, that mysterious figure would be a fearie itself. And the point of the various murders it orders isn't the people who die. It's the Slashers themselves. It's to drive them to a point where they are no longer human, only husks filled with mangled souls. At this point, they would be ripe for the picking, barely human and ready to be taken across and suffer the final transformation. So, the real point of the killings wouldn't be the people who are murdered. It would be to torture the Slashers until their humanity is scorched away by the things they have done.


    Now, I'm looking for any sort of advice or commentary, here. How to manage such a game? How to keep the group together? This is a great idea? This is a terrible idea? I'm a terrible individual? Bring it on!

    Also, for the sake of common decency, let's not discuss the... finer points of Slasher playing here. Otherwise, I'm looking for whatever suggestion, commentary or help anyone might be able to offer. Thanks!
    Last edited by White_North; 2011-03-01 at 08:48 PM.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

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    You're kinda of right. Changelings are taken into the Fae realms and tormented (or delighted the line can get very blurred in Faerie) but the time they spend there varies until they manage to escape. For this reason most Changelings regard it as their primary concern to opposse the True Fae who took them.
    Some, who are dubbed Loyalists, learn to love Faerie(or prefer to be the torturer rather than the victim). These are much rarer and are dubbed Loyalists and hunted down by all other Changelings.
    The mysterious figure could be a Loyalist preparing new victims for his Liege, ones that suitabley prepared will be much more likely to become Loyalists in turn. However the True Fae can be defeated, if one of these demi-gods was driven from his realm by another Fae then the plot could be his way of preparing an army of killers to invade and re-take their domain


    Sounds a good idea but really tricky to keep the right side of good taste, so good luck
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2011-03-01 at 09:03 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    You'll likely need to make good use of the Hunter's Code mechanics, allowing your serial killers to develop their own twisted codes of honor.

    Good luck to you.
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    I like the idea, the main problem will be getting the Slashers to follow orders, and be stealthy instead of slaughter everything with no rhyme or reason. Will you be running this game on the forums? If so, I would totally play.
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Yeah, that's a workable game idea. There's plenty of potential for players to squick each other and for the game to get uncomfortable and messed up; you'd want to do character creation together to make sure no one makes a character that really hits someone else's buttons, and you might need to use a tight leash on during the game.

    As a side note, after reading through Slasher I made a character that started as "The stuff on Slashers joining Hunter groups is interesting. Maybe one could kill monsters before a Hunter group could get there, and leave cryptic poems in blood on the walls hinting at who he was and where they could find other monsters," and ended as "Like Emily Dickinson, except seven feet tall and an axe murderer."
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Well, of course, I would make sure that my players are okay with the topic matters, and what boundaries they wouldn't be comfortable with, so that I may avoid them. And, I'll make sure all the players know each other's comfort zone, too. If my players aren't interested, I may run it on the forums.

    On the topic of how to get them to follow orders, I figure Slashers, by nature, are insane. Faes are creatures of insanity. It could change forms in order to exploit their madness, or use similar abilities to get them to do what it wants. It wouldn't be outright mind-control, though, since the point is that they have to choose to do these inhuman things.
    Last edited by White_North; 2011-03-01 at 09:21 PM.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by White_North View Post
    Well, of course, I would make sure that my players are okay with the topic matters, and what boundaries they wouldn't be comfortable with, so that I may avoid them. And, I'll make sure all the players know each other's comfort zone, too. If my players aren't interested, I may run it on the forums.

    On the topic of how to get them to follow orders, I figure Slashers, by nature, are insane. Faes are creatures of insanity. It could change forms in order to exploit their madness, or use similar abilities to get them to do what it wants. It wouldn't be outright mind-control, though, since the point is that they have to choose to do these inhuman things.
    Keep in mind that there are many degrees of insanity. I thought that Slashers also had rules for Slasher PCs? Or did I mis-read something...?


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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Keep in mind that there are many degrees of insanity. I thought that Slashers also had rules for Slasher PCs? Or did I mis-read something...?
    Well, most of the rules I found concerning PC Slashers dealt with Slashers being Hunters. Some, like the Hunter's Code, will be pretty useful to me. But I didn't really see any advice about running a game about "normal" Slashers.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Fey are capricious, powerful and transient. While a single true fae may do what you suggest simply because their kind are infinite in their variations, the fair folk don't have a general desire to turn others into fey.
    As a result of time spent in Arcadia and passing through the thorns, some part of the mortal soul is left behind or altered. Time isn't really an issue nor the initial state of the soul.
    What you want can work, sure, but it isn't really representative of the true fae except in the sense I mentioned above.

    I have not read the Slasher stuff because I'm skurd. Are all slashers psycho killers like say Jason?

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Not all of them. They can range anywhere from a vigilante, to Hannibal Lecter, to Jason. They can be all kinds of crazy.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by mint View Post
    I have not read the Slasher stuff because I'm skurd. Are all slashers psycho killers like say Jason?
    There are two "levels" of each type of Slasher. The normal ones are just kinda crazy, quite good at a particular thing, and have a particular weakness (like being made at seeing people hiding). They're a lot like Hunters, just killier, and much of the material on PC Slashers is around having one in a Hunter group as "That creepy but useful guy" or a Hunter group going sociopathic and becoming a Slasher group.
    The next level ratchets it up. There are got ones with near-supernatural mind control and ones with implausible genius deathtrap-setting capabilities. Saw, Hannibal Lecter, etc. get shout-outs. For Jason-types you have example is Mask slashers, which are illiterate and mute but one of the most unkillable things* in World of Darkness.
    Slashers also get some quite good Merits. The most powerful is the one that turns every surprise attack into a Killing Blow, which could cause issues if you allow things with supernatural stealth to get it, but there are good but not overpowered ones for things like like improvised weapon expertise, having a favorite weapon, having a room full of deathtraps, etc.

    *Every attack they take? One health level of damage. Sniper rifle to the head, werewolf bite to the face, magic chainsaw? One health level. Geists and Prometheans have excellent survivability and resurrection abilities, and Mages are Mages, but only Masks can reduce damage quite like that.
    However, environmental damage works as normal on Masks. If you can set the house on fire or knock them off a cliff, that works.
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    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

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    If it turns out that the Fey don't fit your plans, they'd probably be perfct for demonic posession as well.
    GENERATION ([-0.051730 + (-0.674245 + 1.206612 c) i - 1.117584 c + c^2] + c)^2 + c. If this is the first time you see this copy it into your signature, square the generation and add c. Fractal experiment.

    Though noone was gonna pick it up, eh?

    Squaring that lot is going to take a while.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    If you are trying to explain why a bunch of murderous psychos are hanging out together, have them be members of the same insane cult, a la the Manson Family. The fey (or whatever you settle on) could be their mysterious cult leader.

    Of course, if you just want to run a fairly sick bunch of hunters, you could go with the Dexter (or Old WoD) model: have even bigger monsters as enemies. If at least some of the characters think they are doing good work, this could lead to interesting role-playing, plus a great, "I'm the Bad Guy?!?" moment when more mundane hunters or cops catch up to them.

    40k has Assassin Cults that pick their victims by means of mystical divination and Tarot reading to determine who is corrupt, and then purging the impure. It's not clear whether the cult is actually Divinely Inspired by the God-Emperor, manipulated by someone (or something) else, or just delusional. Something like this would be very well suited for the Hunter Code, and gives the PCs an excuse to stick together.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    I'd replace the Changeling idea with Spirits from Werewolf: the Forsaken (or the Book of Spirits if you want to stick to non-werewolf source books).

    Spirits are the manifestations of ideas, emotions, abstract concepts, places or any other reflections of our world that take up sentient form in the Shadow and often leak over into our world. As such, you could have a spirit of murder, or a spirit of grief, or a spirit of vengeance, or a spirit of torture, or a spirit of justice, or any other spirit either directly possessing the characters' minds or manipulating the world around them to drive them towards a bloody future.

    I'm not as readily familiar with the new Changeling, but I think that a highly intelligent, motivated and self-aware Spirit would perform well as an intangible overlord manipulating the Slashers' destiny.
    Last edited by Comet; 2011-03-02 at 10:45 AM.
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Comet View Post
    I'd replace the Changeling idea with Spirits from Werewolf: the Forsaken (or the Book of Spirits if you want to stick to non-werewolf source books).

    Spirits are the manifestations of ideas, emotions, abstract concepts, places or any other reflections of our world that take up sentient form in the Shadow and often leak over into our world. As such, you could have a spirit of murder, or a spirit of grief, or a spirit of vengeance, or a spirit of torture, or a spirit of justice, or any other spirit either directly possessing the characters' minds or manipulating the world around them to drive them towards a bloody future.

    I'm not as readily familiar with the new Changeling, but I think that a highly intelligent, motivated and self-aware Spirit would perform well as an intangible overlord manipulating the Slashers' destiny.
    Actually, a Spirit would work wonderfully. Can't believe I hadn't thought of it before. Great suggestion. Plus, the cool thing about a Spirit, as you pointed out, is that its motivations can be just about anything. Maybe it feeds on fear and suffering. Or maybe this whole thing is just an experiment to find out what makes a human being, by pushing humans to do things which are completely inhuman. Actually, that sounds pretty good. Incredible horror commited and lives ruined simply because a bored Spirit wanted to do an experiment. I think that would fit quite well into the WoD feel, so to speak.

    On the topic of the motivation, the idea about having them be in a cult sounds good, but I don't want to force my players into an organisation that strict. Experience says they tend to respond badly. How about this, though?

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    Instead of the Entity (as I'm just start calling it for convenience) simply giving them orders, it could manioulate them. The default concept of the game is that they are Slashers. At the very beginning of the game, it's assumed they've done at least one horrible thing in the past. Now, what if they start finding themselves being hunted down? Not by Hunters, or even by police (at first), but by something, that comes in the dead of night, that they cannot recognize, and that seems intent on dragging them down to whatever hell there is. The Entity could appear as some sort of avenging angel, or devil come to claim corrupt souls. As they start running from it, they discovers clues pointing to some form of awful ritual, from times immemorial, which could preserve them from that Entity. Problem is, that ritual requires a... price, of certain lives. Things like the blood of an innocent, the heart of the faithful, or whatever else is thematically appropriate. Them being chased by the same thing would force them to stick together, with a common goal, and it would add a sense of urgency and dramatic momentum.

    The twist would be that the ritual does nothing. That, actually, the Entity never wanted their souls to begin with. Maybe it planted the ritual for them to find, too. All it wanted was to make them destroy their own souls by creating a Hell within their own minds. Through their fear of damnation, they would end up damning themselves. I know it's pretty bleak, but in that kind of game, a "happy" ending is pretty much out of the question. I mean, the central concept is that they are monsters in the forms of men. Those stories don't end with "happily ever after".


    So, thoughts? Also, thanks for the great advice from everyone. Especially for the clarifications on Faeries. I had never actually played Changeling before. Only lightly flipped through it.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Wow, that's pretty dark. I like it as a concept, just don't be surprised if the players throw rulebooks at you when they figure out they were doomed from the get-go.

    If you want to make this thing a little longer-running, make it so that the ritual needs to be enacted once a month or so to keep the Entity satiated.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    I'd agree spirit works a lot better than fae. If you want to go slightly oddball with it though...

    Spirits are generally one track minds, dedicated to the thing that empowers them. Lower rank spirits are barely fully formed personalities, unless they have previously been more powerful, or they have been around for a long time. Since these spirits get their power from just one source they have a monomanical dedication to it.
    Higher rank spirits though almost inevitably diversify. Maybe a spirit of greed becomes a spirit of ambition and triumph. Maybe a spirit of pain also thrives on resilience. They become more well rounded, and more individualistic beings.
    That is one way to create the entity, a powerful spirit that feeds on death and despair. Well rounded enough to be a character, but utterly inhuman.

    On the other hand, you have ghosts. Human urges strong enough to last beyond death. Kind of pathetic creatures though, which isn't a good idea for an overarching villain.

    The last way though, is a merger of ghosts and spirits. Some spirit urged bond so deeply that they meld the soul of the human and the spirit together. And in so doing will last beyond the death of the body as mixture of ghost and spirit. If you want an identifiable human aspect to this overseer that can be revealed over time while keeping the inhuman .. that could be a way to go.



    The fae thing doesn't quite fit cosmologically. That doesn't really matter.. because it could be an insane overlord working from faulty logic. A changeling attempt to recreate the dehumanizing things it was forced to do to survive in Arcadia would work as a very decent motivation for an insane villain. It just wouldn't have a cosmological effect. A changeling could believe that they are making new changelings by forcing people to do bad things. But they aren't. Since one of the disadvantages of being a changeling though is a hard time determining between fantasy and reality I think it fits well.
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    The last way though, is a merger of ghosts and spirits.
    That's basically what Geists are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    That's basically what Geists are.
    Sort of. What Selhrac wants (I think) is some sort of overseer that's identifiable, something that's at least somewhat sympathetic to the human condition. While Geists might fit the bill somewhat, their perceptions of reality are colored through death.

    A Geist patron would likely encourage the PCs to do more mayhem rather than reign them in.
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Depends how the geist died.

    If he was the victim of assassination, he is now basically a God of Death by Assassination, for instance.

    If he died in a car crash he'll just egg the Slashers into causing pileups, though.

    Also: the Synergy rules for Sin-Eaters hint that Geists don't really like messy murder. Kill who you mean to kill and so forth.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2011-03-05 at 11:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Yup. Premediated murder is not a Synergy hit for Sin-Eaters, but accidental manslaughter is. Geist is awesome that way.
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    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Yup. Premediated murder is not a Synergy hit for Sin-Eaters, but accidental manslaughter is. Geist is awesome that way.
    True, but serial murder (which, let's face it, is the entire point of being a Slasher) is a big no-no as far as the Geist is concerned.

    Basically, killing someone in furtherance of a goal is is fine. Killing someone as a goal is fine too. But if your goal is to kill a whole bunch of people for no real reason, that's going to be a bit of a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    After serious consideration on Slasher, I have determined that you can build the entire Batman gallery of rouges (the non super powered ones) using Slasher.

    Batman himself is an Avenger, bordering on Legend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade View Post
    After serious consideration on Slasher, I have determined that you can build the entire Batman gallery of rouges (the non super powered ones) using Slasher.
    What, you make a claim like that, and you're just going to leave us hanging? Give us some charsheets!
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    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Since I have been "challenged" to make a character sheet using Slasher for the Batman universe, I think I shall start with ol' Bats himself. I will be working with the "Nolan-verse" mentality mainly, unless there is a better representation of a particular character elsewhere (see my entry for the Riddler).

    The Batman (not stated as a beginning character)
    Real Name: Bruce Wayne
    Concept: *Concept: Millionaire Playboy by day, vigilante crime fighter by night.
    Undertaking: Avenger
    Age: early 30's
    Virtue: Justice
    Vice: Wrath
    Cell: None
    Group Name: None
    Power: Intelligence 3 Strength 4 Presence 5 (Undertaking Attribute)
    Finesse: Wits 4 Dexterity 4 Manipulation 4
    Resistance: Resolve 5 Stamina 5 Composure 5

    Skills (bold indicates Undertaking Skill):
    Academics: 3
    Computer: 4 (Surveillance Systems)
    Crafts: 3 (Small Electronics)
    Investigation 4 (Crime Scene Analysis)
    Medicine: 3 (First Aid, Self)
    Occult: 0 (3 if using DC universe instead of Nolan-verse)
    Politics: 3 (Underworld)
    Science 3 (Forensics)
    Athletics 5 (Parkour , BASE Jumping, Climbing)
    Brawl 5 (Multiple Opponents, Ambush)
    Drive 2 (Sports Cars, Tumbler)
    Firearms 4 (Identification, Grapple gun)
    Larceny 4 (Security Systems, Lock picking)
    Stealth 5 (Urban)
    Survival 3 (Urban)
    Weaponry 4 (Thrown, Grapple Gun)
    Animal Ken 1 (Attack Dogs)
    Empathy 3 (Criminal Mind)
    Expression 2
    Intimidation 5 (Batman*, Physical)
    Persuasion 2 (As Bruce Wayne)
    Socialize 3 (Polite Society)
    Streetwise 4 (Criminal Activity)
    Subterfuge 5 (Posing as Bruce Wayne, Misdirection)
    *The "Batman" specialty applies when he is just staring at a criminal. Yes, its the "God-d*mned Batman" specialty)

    Merits:
    Mental: Common Sense, Holistic Awareness, Language 2 (Chinese), Meditative Mind
    Physical: Ambidextrous, Brawling Dodge, Disarm, Fast Reflexes 2, Fighting Style Boxing 5, Kung Fu 5, Fleet of Foot 3, Fresh Start, Iron Stamina 2, Quick Draw, Quick Healer, Strong Lungs, Stunt Driver, Toxin Resistance (specifically Scarecrow Fear Toxin)
    Social: Allies (as Bruce Wayne) 2 (Luscious Fox, Rachael Dawes), Allies (as Batman) 2 (Jim Gordon, Harvey Dent), Contacts 4 (Wayne Enterprise's Executive Board, Gotham City government offices (PD, DA, mayor's offices, respectively), Fame 1 (as Bruce Wayne), 3 (as Batman), Resources 5 (Owner and CEO of Wayne Enterprises), Retainer 3 (Alfred Pennyworth), Status 5 (As Bruce Wayne, Owner and CEO of Wayne Enterprises), Status 2 (As Batman, Gotham PD)
    Hunter:: Safehouse 4 (Wayne Manor) Safehouse 5 (Batcave), Favored Weapon: Batarang
    Slasher: Murder Expert (usually just subdues instead of kills),

    Hunter Tactics: Disappear (Batman uses this tactic to either evade good cops, or if he is in over his head)
    Corral, Hamstring ((Batman uses these tactics to break up large groups of enemies into smaller, more manageable units; see Avenger Talent.)
    Measurements, Net, Profiling (Batman uses this tactic to help ID criminals, and he always does his best to take criminals alive. He is also an expert Criminologist)

    Slasher Tactics: Behavioral Science (Again, Batman usually makes a criminal profile in the case of very dangerous foes (See my Write up on the Joker)
    Good Old Fashioned Beat Down (Very few can take Batman head on in a fight)
    False Pretenses (Batman poses as Bruce Wayne A LOT).
    Man Can Lick Too (Stealth is Batman's calling card. Also, the secondary actors can be distractions Batman set earlier)
    Willpower: 10 Health: 10

    And now for the deciding Factor that makes Batman a Slasher instead of a hunter: the Talent and Frailty.
    Talent- Working the Room
    You know how to engage 6 men. We can teach you to engage 600.
    -Ra's al Ghul
    You're feisty. I like that.
    - The Joker
    Then you're gonna love me.
    - Batman
    Batman's greatest strength is the ability to engage men in combat by the dozens and defeat them.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Frailty- Nothing but the Mission
    I didn't have time to observe the rules of the road, Alfred.
    -Batman
    I wanted to see what you'd do. And you didn't disappoint. You let 5 people die. Then you let Dent take your place. Even to guy like me, THAT'S COLD.
    -the Joker
    Often times, Batman focuses solely on the mission, often times neglecting the surrounding innocents. While this is accidental, it happens quite frequently with the Batman around.
    Last edited by Slade; 2011-03-23 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Cleaning up

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Jesus Christ it's you're, not your.

    "You are".
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Jesus Christ it's you're, not your.

    "You are".
    Jesus Christ, what are you? A Grammar Nazi? Attacking the typos while not even commenting on the character sheet or the build?
    Is this site suddenly GNitP? Grammar Nazi in the Playground?

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Language has been errata'd to be a one-dot merit for complete fluency.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    He's already a bear that turns into a bear that gets so angry it turns into a bear, worships bears, and commands bears, all while riding a bear. He has enough bear.
    There's never enough bear.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Also, Alfred should be at least a 2-dot Retainer, maybe a 3-dot if you allow his backstory as an SAS commando.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: (nWoD) Slashers!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Also, Alfred should be at least a 2-dot Retainer, maybe a 3-dot if you allow his backstory as an SAS commando.
    True... Alfred did knock out a HIGHLY TRAINED ninja in the first Nolan-verse movie, and since these ninja were the same ninjas that trained Bruce in the first place, and these ninja have been training FAR longer than Bruce had, and they survived Bruce's sneak attack on the Secret Ninja Training School, it can be reasonable to assume that these ninjas were the most elite ninjas left. And Alfred KO'ed one in one swing.

    Yea, 3 dot retainer.

    (Also, the Inverse Ninja Theory would indicate that since there was only 1 ninja in that scene, the ninja in question would be a BAMF. And Alfred KO'ed the BAMF in one hit. So, yea, 3 dot retainer.)
    EDIT: Made the change in the stat block as indicated. Also, will start working on the Joker as promised.
    Last edited by Slade; 2011-03-24 at 01:48 AM.

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