Alien Fossils Discovered!

[CoffeeIncluded]

They're just bacteria, but still! Alien! Fossils! Discovered!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrend...nceofalienlife

[Serpentine]

I know this is cool, but... hadn't we already found some alium bacterium in a meteorite or somesuch?

[Zaydos]

I know this is cool, but... hadn't we already found some alium bacterium in a meteorite or somesuch?

I think it was decided that the meteorite had been contaminated with Earth bacteria.

[Astrella]

While interesting, I'm still waiting for it to be actually verified.

[Serpentine]

While interesting, I'm still waiting for it to be actually verified.

What do you mean by verified? You mean comments from other scientists? Apparently they've opened it up (more than usual) for criticism, so looks like there'll be plenty of them...

[Maralais]

So exogenesis was true after all?

[/jumptoconclusion]

[Astrella]

What do you mean by verified? You mean comments from other scientists? Apparently they've opened it up (more than usual) for criticism, so looks like there'll be plenty of them...

That, and verification (repetition of the experiments) by an independent laboratory.

[Ytaker]

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/...4/J04-025.html

Unless he has some proof that the structures aren't naturally formed then it's old news. They are weird shapes that are too small to be bacteria but look sorta the right shape. He's taken a lot of photos, but he hasn't explained the fact that they can be naturally formed.

[Ichneumon]

I so hope this is true.

[LaZodiac]

This excites me heavily. I hope it's true, I really do.

[Silverraptor]

I thought this was realized awhile ago too. But anyways, glad its being looked at again.

[Lord Raziere]

I hope its right this time.....

*flips coin*

[Trekkin]

That's the sad thing about using electron microscopy to look through meteorites; they detect rod-shaped fossils, which, while very convincing for laymen to look at, aren't particularly definitive, since several processes totally unrelated to life can create rocks at look like bacteria.

Also, as much as I hate to drag names through the mud, it IS the Journal of Cosmology, and the guy went to a news organization with this. If it had been published in, say, Nature or Cell (and this would certainly rate that, if proven), and had gone through the normal peer review process, I'd be more inclined to believe that their data were representative of what they're claiming. Also, their championing of their "vetting" worries me; not only is it the wrong term, it's also normal, so bothering to point it out reminds me rather too forcefully of Macbeth. Methinks the editor doth protest too much.

I'm not saying it's a hoax, and I'm not saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", because really they don't. They do, however, require that the explanation presented be by far the most likely one indicated by the data, and if all we've got to look at are pretty rock rods, that's probably not the case.

[Achernar]

I must place in a caution here: It's not certain what these structures in the meteorite are: if they are biogenic, might they be terrestrial? I'm not very excited about this yet, because the research team needs to do much more by way of analysis to prove this claim.

Also: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ba...n-a-meteorite/

[Trekkin]

I must place in a caution here: It's not certain what these structures in the meteorite are: if they are biogenic, might they be terrestrial? I'm not very excited about this yet, because the research team needs to do much more by way of analysis to prove this claim.

Also: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ba...n-a-meteorite/

Very true; I still say they're crystal structures, but it's not impossible that somehow terrestrial bacteria are responsible for those shapes; as far as I know, electron microscopy of this type can't tell you what it's in fact scanning, only that it's there and how far away from the detector it is.

Also, I just wanted to point this out from the original post's article:

never before in the history of science has the scientific community been given the opportunity to critically analyze an important research paper before it is published

Is perhaps the most blatant lie I've ever seen in print relating to the scientific review process. Prepublication review is ALWAYS done by reputable journals, and it's gotten more exhaustive with time. "Never before in the history of science" indeed. I'm actually angry now.

[SurlySeraph]

As Ytaker linked, there was a very similar discovery in 1996 that turned out to be non-extraterrestrial. Also, the Journal of Cosmology is going out of business and wrote a sendoff press release that does not exactly make them sound reputable.

Probably contamination, maybe crystal structures, very unlikely to be legitimate.

[The Glyphstone]

As Ytaker linked, there was a very similar discovery in 1996 that turned out to be non-extraterrestrial. Also, the Journal of Cosmology is going out of business and wrote a sendoff press release that does not exactly make them sound reputable.

Probably contamination, maybe crystal structures, very unlikely to be legitimate.

So, they're the supermarket tabloid of the scientific journal community? That makes sense.

[thubby]

im excited, but still very skeptical.

[Serpentine]

Is perhaps the most blatant lie I've ever seen in print relating to the scientific review process. Prepublication review is ALWAYS done by reputable journals, and it's gotten more exhaustive with time. "Never before in the history of science" indeed. I'm actually angry now.

Whoa, I missed that. Yeah, that's... that's kinda one of the primary bases of modern scientific method, right there There's a reason they're called peer-reviewed journals...

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Nope. I'm gonna disbelieve this one. I sincerely doubt that they found anything.

[Trekkin]

An interesting possible explanation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2617266
Bacillus-shaped whitlockite deposits are apparently possible. I looked up whitlockite, and apparently it's also called merrilite, which makes this book excerpt interesting:
book

So there's a mineral known to form bacteria-shaped crystals that's present in meteorites of the type under consideration. Further, the guy behind this latest paper has stated there's no nitrogen in these things. Consider the structure of whitlockite: Ca9(MgFe)(PO4)6PO3OH (thanks Wikipedia!).

Obviously I haven't looked at the microfossils chemically, but still...until there's proof that these aren't whitlockite crystals, I maintain that it's more likely that either they were formed abiotically or terrestrial bacteria contaminated the chondrite and made them, assuming a chondrite is enough like dental calculus.

Actually, that would be an interesting experiment to do, mineralogically: make a chondrite-like rock, expose it to extreme temperatures, and see if you get these bacillus-shaped crystals.

[Adlan]

Actually, that would be an interesting experiment to do, mineralogically: make a chondrite-like rock, expose it to extreme temperatures, and see if you get these bacillus-shaped crystals.

I don't think we'd be able to get much useful data from that experiment. Crystal Growing is so finikity, and we don't have enough data on the conditions that produced the rock. If it works, cool, but there's still enough room for people to disagree without ever disputing the facts.

[Asta Kask]

Bacteria?

Pharyngula just says no.

I don't think this is anything. Myers is usually on the nose when it comes to biology.

[Worira]

Also, their championing of their "vetting" worries me; not only is it the wrong term, it's also normal, so bothering to point it out reminds me rather too forcefully of Macbeth. Methinks the editor doth protest too much.

Hamlet.

And yeah, "no paper has ever been peer-reviewed prior to publishing" is an... interesting claim.

[Trekkin]

Ah, right, that one. Hamlet.
Thanks, Worira; I can't begin to count all the times I've apparently misquoted that.

[Spiryt]

Bump?

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/1103....2011.147.html

[Flame of Anor]

As Ytaker linked, there was a very similar discovery in 1996 that turned out to be non-extraterrestrial. Also, the Journal of Cosmology is going out of business and wrote a sendoff press release that does not exactly make them sound reputable.

Probably contamination, maybe crystal structures, very unlikely to be legitimate.

That press release is the funniest thing I've read all week.

[grimbold]

i surelyhope that they were joking