Redesign the human?

[Ashtagon]

The D&D human is the mario. Are there any tropes that a revised D&D human could fill that are, well, a bit more flavourful, while at the same time being reasonably believable?

[Zaydos]

Humans are Warriors

[Chronos]

The problem with making humans anything but the Mario is that all the other races were, ultimately, designed by humans. And the way we humans generally design something like a fantasy race is "Like humans, but...". If you give humans some distinguishing trait, then what you're really doing is distinguishing all the other races by the lack of that trait.

[3WhiteFox3]

Muggle Power
Humans Are Leaders
Humans Are Diplomats
Humans Are Special
Humans Are Cthulhu
Humans Are Infectious
Humans Are Flawed
Humanity Is Superior
Humanity Is Insane

[ForzaFiori]

Diplomats might be interesting... There aren't many races that are made to be a party face.

Also, the bonus skill points and feats ties into a "humans are adaptable" idea that most fantasy games/books/whatever have. not sure if it's a TV trope or not (really don't get on their a whole lot, cause I'll lose a day on there)

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Pathfinder did a good job with humans, I think. The real trick is coming up with multiple human nations and empires in your campaign, but you can usually just base them on real-world cultures. In other words...

[Ashtagon]

I think the humans are warriors trope works best. Keep us warm, dry, and fed, and we are kittens. But when our backs are to the wall, we are tougher than old boots. How to express that?

Possible ideas:

* Endurance feat
* Bonus on environmental heat/cold saves
* 4e style Second wind for humans only
* Bonus on Will saves against non-magical, non-fear effects (does anything qualify in that regard?)
* Extra action points
* Able to go without food/drink/sleep longer than traditional fantasy races (elves halflings and dwarves especially are noted in literature for their habitual feasts, making them weaker in trope than humans on this aspect)

The common point is that these are all features that provide no real benefit as long as we are warm, dry, and fed.

Proposed final design. It's a mix of humans are warriors and humans are survivors.

• Environmental Adaptation: Humans gain a +2 bonus on saves to resist fatigue and non-lethal damage caused by environmental heat or cold.
• Second Wind: Once per day as a swift action, humans can gain a second wind. They immediately restore a number of hit points equal to their Constitution score plus their character level. This ability can only be used when the character has less than half full hp, but more than 1 hp. If using vitality/wounds, it cannot restore wound damage.
• Famine Resistance: Humans are not particularly used to having an abundance of food at all times, and occasionally experience famines. They get a +2 bonus on Constitution checks to resist penalties from lack of food or water.
• Destiny: Humans receive one additional action point each time they gain a level. (If not using action points, allow human characters to choose one of the "save bonus" feats at 1st level as a free feat.)
• Resourceful: Humans can pick one skill as a permanent class skill (Exception: Not UMD, K/Arcana, or Spellcraft). Once per day, you may re-roll the result of any check with this skill, but you must accept teh second result, even if it is worse than the original.
• Favoured Class: Each human can pick any single class as their favoured class, as long as it is not a full caster class. They cannot change this choice once it has been made. Humans lack the raw magical talent to excel as casters in the way that some others races can, but they make up for this by being far more flexible.

Is this Balanced for LA +0?

[Icewalker]

The problem with making humans anything but the Mario is that all the other races were, ultimately, designed by humans. And the way we humans generally design something like a fantasy race is "Like humans, but...". If you give humans some distinguishing trait, then what you're really doing is distinguishing all the other races by the lack of that trait.

This is very true, but avoidable. If you really rework a setting, or even make a new one, you can make it so that humans aren't the default with other races being variations on them, and actually make all the races moderately different instead. Although this tends to result in just a fantasy setting with no 'human' race. Alternatively, avoid the planet of hats problem, and make all of the races highly adaptable and varied too, as intelligent beings will be. That could make things interesting.

[Eldan]

Compare humans to other real-life animals.

Long life. Now, this is mostly civilization, and it's also the elf's shtick, so leave that out.
Dexterity. Our arms and shoulders may be flimsy and prone to popping out, but damn, if we aren't able to do strange stuff with them. Same with fingers.
Endurance, especially in hot climate. Humans can kill things by walking after them until they drop dead. It's estimated early humans, in Africa, walked between 40 and 60 kilometers every day.

Also, what I included: humans breed with everything. Tieflings. Aasimar. Half-dragons. For me, that's not just breeding with everything, but humanity's adaption means that even by living in an area, they will have adapted children one generation later. All those Chaonds aren't just from "contact" with slaads, they are from living in Limbo.

[Icedaemon]

This is very true, but avoidable. If you really rework a setting, or even make a new one, you can make it so that humans aren't the default with other races being variations on them, and actually make all the races moderately different instead. Although this tends to result in just a fantasy setting with no 'human' race. Alternatively, avoid the planet of hats problem, and make all of the races highly adaptable and varied too, as intelligent beings will be. That could make things interesting.

I also prefer this course of action. Don't make the principal non-human civilisations a bunch of prancy smelly elves or identical hard-working dwarves. In the homebrew I am making, for example, the only truly cosmpolitan nation is ruled by dragons, which is completely different from all other lands. The two most powerful goblinoid nations, while competing to see which can be more lawful evil, are philosophically so different they are engaged in a bitter war. Even dwarven nations are different from one another, although they are all still clearly dwarven.

It is useful to keep the human-like races to a minimum. Take a look at what other LA +0 races are out there. I only use dwarves because I like to use them and enjoy finding ways to subvert the 'dwarves are all the same' trope.

By the way, Ashtagon, I for one see the proposal as something incredibly overpowered. The second wind alone should, if we are talking about a 3.x edition game, raise the level adjustment by one, since this is one power which will remain incredibly useful for many levels and effectively make many healing powers such as a paladin's fondle seem quaint. The race described is less like a basic person and more like a 'paragon human'.

Besides, the most realistic trope regarding humans is this one anyway. (OK, humans are flawed and humans are insane are also pretty good).

[Zaydos]

I'd weaken the Second Wind a bit; as is it's full health for one or two levels. Maybe change it to Con modifier + level x 2?

[Veyr]

By the way, Ashtagon, I for one see the proposal as something incredibly overpowered. The second wind alone should, if we are talking about a 3.x edition game, raise the level adjustment by one, since this is one power which will remain incredibly useful for many levels and effectively make many healing powers such as a paladin's fondle seem quaint.

Not that I disagree with you overall, but the human doesn't need to change at all to make Lay on Hands "quaint" - the numbers being thrown about in that class feature are not particularly meaningful at any level. It's one of the most useless active class features in the game.

Besides, the most realistic trope regarding humans is this one anyway. (OK, humans are flawed and humans are insane are also pretty good).

I'm going to quietly disagree with that, especially seeing as the linked trope is explicitly and purely speculative - it can't be realistic, we don't have intergalactic spacetravel yet.

[Ashtagon]

Hmm, on second thoughts, that second wind as written is a little overpowered. It effectively means you can fully recover from any attack that doesn't kill you outright, at least for the first level or two.

I'm also not sure it fits in with my overall theme of traits that only come into play in dire straits.

How about replacing it with:

• Second Wind: Once per day, as a swift action, you may immediately recover from fatigue, or convert an exhausted condition to a fatigued condition.

That also better fits in with the natural meaning of what second wind actually means.

The other issue is I'm not sure if the alternate feat if you aren't playing with action points is balanced with the action point option. Maybe just replace it entirely with a "re-roll a saving throw 1/day"?

[Icedaemon]

Not that I disagree with you overall, but the human doesn't need to change at all to make Lay on Hands "quaint" - the numbers being thrown about in that class feature are not particularly meaningful at any level. It's one of the most useless active class features in the game.

The Paladin Grope of Healing was used as an example. I am rather aware that it is really only meant as a way for those buggers to have an excuse anyway.

I'm going to quietly disagree with that, especially seeing as the linked trope is explicitly and purely speculative - it can't be realistic, we don't have intergalactic spacetravel yet.

I am not sure if this was easily understood and have seen trouble by assuming that my flippancy was obvious before. This was meant as a half-joke, if only to counter the overly 'humans are superior'-type vibe this thread has.

Hmm, on second thoughts, that second wind as written is a little overpowered. It effectively means you can fully recover from any attack that doesn't kill you outright, at least for the first level or two.

I'm also not sure it fits in with my overall theme of traits that only come into play in dire straits.

How about replacing it with:

• Second Wind: Once per day, as a swift action, you may immediately recover from fatigue, or convert an exhausted condition to a fatigued condition.

Indeed it is much better.

That also better fits in with the natural meaning of what second wind actually means.

The other issue is I'm not sure if the alternate feat if you aren't playing with action points is balanced with the action point option. Maybe just replace it entirely with a "re-roll a saving throw 1/day"?

I would personally lose the 'destiny' trait altogether. Not everyone should expect to have some grand fate awaiting them. It would make more sense as a feat, methinks.

If the environmental adaption would be something that does not kick in immediately (meaning, the adaption requires that the character spend at least X days in the given environment before gaining the +2 bonus), coupled with no destiny and the balanced second wind, I'd call this a fine and balanced version of oomin.

[Zaydos]

Hmm, on second thoughts, that second wind as written is a little overpowered. It effectively means you can fully recover from any attack that doesn't kill you outright, at least for the first level or two.

I'm also not sure it fits in with my overall theme of traits that only come into play in dire straits.

How about replacing it with:

• Second Wind: Once per day, as a swift action, you may immediately recover from fatigue, or convert an exhausted condition to a fatigued condition.

That also better fits in with the natural meaning of what second wind actually means.

The other issue is I'm not sure if the alternate feat if you aren't playing with action points is balanced with the action point option. Maybe just replace it entirely with a "re-roll a saving throw 1/day"?

I like the re-roll a saving throw 1/day, although I don't think giving them one of Great Fortitude, Iron Will, or Lightning Reflexes would be unbalancing. Compare to dwarves which get +2 on all saves versus spells and +2 Con which gives them +1 on everything humans get +2 on already.

[Ashtagon]

If the environmental adaption would be something that does not kick in immediately (meaning, the adaption requires that the character spend at least X days in the given environment before gaining the +2 bonus), coupled with no destiny and the balanced second wind, I'd call this a fine and balanced version of oomin.

I think that's being a little severe. As you've written it, you're losing a free feat and 4+level skill points in exchange for for some very circumstantial bonuses, plus a skill re-roll 1/day and a recover from fatigue 1/day. I'm trying to make a niched human, not a nerfed one.

Note that the environmental bonus is exactly that. It won't help at all against a fireball or an ice storm spell.

[Icedaemon]

Hmm... I do tend to look at things from the fluffy point of view rather than from the rules angle. For me, the environmental adaption taking time (though several days, perhaps, would be too much for a game) makes sense, as I have experienced the way I personally adapt to cold winters and warm vacations over time. I also prefer to err on the side of the more nerfed rather than the overpowered.

I do still think that, say, the idea presented by Zaydos, of adding the great fortitude feat, might perhaps fit better than making destiny mandatory, unless fate is supposed to play a big role in the storylines you intend.

[Ashtagon]

• Environmental Adaptation: At 1st level, human characters can choose any two of the following abilities. This choice cannot be changed later. Since its ridiculously rare for a PC at levels where this ability is truly useful to be in both a hot and a cold environment in the same day or three, no need to make a complicating mechanic to force one or the other benefit. I do agree though that's it's a little cinematic having both constantly 'on'. Forcing humans to choose just two of these allows for a little cultural flavouring and minor customisation.
  
  
  • +2 bonus on saves to resist fatigue and non-lethal damage caused on environmental heat.
  • +2 bonus on saves to resist fatigue and non-lethal damage caused on environmental cold.
  • +2 bonus on saves to resist fatigue and non-lethal damage caused on altitude sickness, suffocation, and oxygen starvation.
  • +2 bonus on checks to resist the negative effects caused by lack of food or water.
  
  
• Swift Recovery: Once per day as a swift action, a human can completely recover from the fatigued condition, or convert an exhausted condition to a fatigued condition. Renamed to avoid confusion from the 4e hit point healing ability, which now works very differently.
• Destiny: Humans are destined for great things. Once per day, a human character may re-roll a single saving throw. He must accept the result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the original roll. I much prefer active choices of when to use a bonus over a flat bonus; it's statistically weaker, which eases balance, and it forces players to engage more with what's going on in the action.
• Resourceful: Humans can pick one skill as a permanent class skill (Exception: Not UMD, K/Arcana, or Spellcraft). Once per day, you may re-roll the result of any check with this skill, but you must accept the second result, even if it is worse than the original.
• Favoured Class: Each human can pick any single class as their favoured class, as long as it is not a full caster class. They cannot change this choice once it has been made. Humans lack the raw magical talent to excel as casters in the way that some others races can, but they make up for this by being far more flexible.

I think I'm happy with the above race. This gives a decent amount of customisation for players (choose two environmental adaptations, choose a favoured skill, and choose a favoured race) and three at-will abilities (recover fatigue, skill re-roll, and save re-roll) to use during an adventure each day). If you're playing with Pathfinder rules, add an extra +2 to one ability score of your choice.

otoh, is this race too weak? I still want humans to be the go-to choice of character race.

[Roderick_BR]

On a design level, you could create a "virtual human" on "ground zero", as a vanilla base race for all races, and then make the actual humans from there.

One idea that comes to mind, is to mix humans with half-elves: bonus to listen, spot, diplomacy, and vs charms, extra skill point (the extra class skill idea is a good idea too), extra feat.
Half-elves take over the normal elf rules.
Actual elves would then become something more exotic. I saw some LA+1 or +2 out there for elves. Just allow LA buyoff, and you have it, new remasterized human/half-elf/elf.
I'd say these are a good start to differentiate them more without needing to remake several rules. You can go from there for more different stuff.

[Zaydos]

otoh, is this race too weak? I still want humans to be the go-to choice of character race.

It's not an automatic best choice even in PHB only races anymore. For heavy armor types you have dwarves (+2 Con and awesome save bonuses), for casters you have halflings and gnomes, and for light armor melee you now compete with half-orcs and elves once again have a role as skill monkeys and rogues. It is more balanced with the other PHB races than PHB human, but from my personal experience that means many people won't pick it. The reason human is the go-to race in 3rd is two fold: it's humans and we know humans, and it's better than the PHB races or non-Faerun races printed for PC use (exception anthro-X). The first reason still holds true but you'll have a lot more diversified parties than human, human, human, human.

If you want it to be the go-to race give it something a little more, maybe the Heroic Destiny feat from Races of Destiny and maybe... I'll think some more on this.

[Ashtagon]

It's not an automatic best choice even in PHB only races anymore. For heavy armor types you have dwarves (+2 Con and awesome save bonuses), for casters you have halflings and gnomes, and for light armor melee you now compete with half-orcs and elves once again have a role as skill monkeys and rogues. It is more balanced with the other PHB races than PHB human, but from my personal experience that means many people won't pick it. The reason human is the go-to race in 3rd is two fold: it's humans and we know humans, and it's better than the PHB races or non-Faerun races printed for PC use (exception anthro-X). The first reason still holds true but you'll have a lot more diversified parties than human, human, human, human.

If you want it to be the go-to race give it something a little more, maybe the Heroic Destiny feat from Races of Destiny and maybe... I'll think some more on this.

As a base race ability, I want to avoid "add an extra 1d6 to a roll" in favour of "roll your d20 again", since the extra 1d6 allows you to go beyond what is normally 'possible', while the second lets you do your level of 'possible' more reliably. And I've already got two different "roll your dice again" benefits in the race build.

I'm going to give all the environmental adaptation bonuses to all humans though, without forcing a choice. It's a needless complication for what are meant to be corner-case situations.

I think giving "+2 to any stat of your choice" is the way to go next.

Oh, and "background NPC humans" are a race apart, and simply don't get most of these bonuses. This race template is the non-mook human. Think of PCs and major NPCs as a human sub-race (in the elf vs gray elf sense, not the morlock vs human sense) that occasionally comes up as a result of human genetics, kind of like being albino or having green eyes or really big earlobes.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

• Environmental Adaptation: At 1st level, human characters can choose any two of the following abilities. This choice cannot be changed later. Since its ridiculously rare for a PC at levels where this ability is truly useful to be in both a hot and a cold environment in the same day or three, no need to make a complicating mechanic to force one or the other benefit. I do agree though that's it's a little cinematic having both constantly 'on'. Forcing humans to choose just two of these allows for a little cultural flavouring and minor customisation.
  
  
  • +2 bonus on saves to resist fatigue and non-lethal damage caused on environmental heat.
  • +2 bonus on saves to resist fatigue and non-lethal damage caused on environmental cold.
  • +2 bonus on saves to resist fatigue and non-lethal damage caused on altitude sickness, suffocation, and oxygen starvation.
  • +2 bonus on checks to resist the negative effects caused by lack of food or water.
  
  
• Swift Recovery: Once per day as a swift action, a human can completely recover from the fatigued condition, or convert an exhausted condition to a fatigued condition. Renamed to avoid confusion from the 4e hit point healing ability, which now works very differently.
• Destiny: Humans are destined for great things. Once per day, a human character may re-roll a single saving throw. He must accept the result of the second roll, even if it is worse than the original roll. I much prefer active choices of when to use a bonus over a flat bonus; it's statistically weaker, which eases balance, and it forces players to engage more with what's going on in the action.
• Resourceful: Humans can pick one skill as a permanent class skill (Exception: Not UMD, K/Arcana, or Spellcraft). Once per day, you may re-roll the result of any check with this skill, but you must accept the second result, even if it is worse than the original.
• Favoured Class: Each human can pick any single class as their favoured class, as long as it is not a full caster class. They cannot change this choice once it has been made. Humans lack the raw magical talent to excel as casters in the way that some others races can, but they make up for this by being far more flexible.

otoh, is this race too weak? I still want humans to be the go-to choice of character race.

This race is definitely to weak. This comes down to the following:

• Two +2 bonuses to rarely-encountered environmental conditions that can be avoided with a level 1 spell (Endure Elements).
• A 1/day ability to negate a condition imposed by very few common activities short of a Barbarian's Rage.
• A re-roll of a single saving throw 1/day.
• 1 extra class skill.

That's a rather pathetic list of racial features, honestly. I'd never take this, from a mechanical perspective.

[lightningcat]

I use action points in my game and gave this ability to humans:
Human have long been noted as heroes and villains, they roll one additional die whenever they spend an action point, and they gain 1 additional action point at each level.

Logic: When its important, humans can pull off some amazing stuff, but the rest of the time they're normal.

[Kuma Kode]

(in the elf vs gray elf sense, not the morlock vs human sense)

Dunno why, but the sudden reference to morlocks made me laugh.

This race is definitely to weak. This comes down to the following:

• Two +2 bonuses to rarely-encountered environmental conditions that can be avoided with a level 1 spell (Endure Elements).
• A 1/day ability to negate a condition imposed by very few common activities short of a Barbarian's Rage.
• A re-roll of a single saving throw 1/day.
• 1 extra class skill.

That's a rather pathetic list of racial features, honestly. I'd never take this, from a mechanical perspective.

Yeah, environmental adaption is less than awesome, since most DMs really don't feel like tracking the effects since they're so minor and easily defeated. Environmental effects is one of the few things I've seen players need to go to books to look up.

Perhaps play with nonproficiency penalties? Maybe humans are more creative and better in a pinch than other creatures and so we can make do with some pretty funky things as weapons.

Or maybe we have a stronger racial identity than others? It makes us more xenophobic but strengthens our bonds to other humans?

Or take the Humans are Warriors trope literally and offer proficiency and combat bonuses like dwarves have. Humans are known to get into some pretty big brawls over pretty ridiculous things. Perhaps other races are more reserved or cautious than we are and we've become the badasses because of our self-destructive tendencies, willing to try crazy things.

The answer may also lie in redoing some of the other races as well, to pull them away from the tough-guy niche. Right now, all the other niches are covered by the races, leaving the Mario for humans. If you push humans into the tough race niche, you're competing with dwarves who, frankly, are going to do it better.

If action points function like d20 Modern's, maybe give them d8's instead of d6's?

[ericgrau]

Humans are generally treated like the average baseline because the players are humans. If anything they tend to be given general purpose abilities. If you want to make them feel different, then change that. Make something else the norm, and give humans something that varies from that norm. Perhaps there is something that most other races have that humans don't. Or give the humans a certain special ability or stat bump that means maybe they're better than other races at certain classes, and worse at other classes.

[Ashtagon]

Humans are generally treated like the average baseline because the players are humans. If anything they tend to be given general purpose abilities. If you want to make them feel different, then change that. Make something else the norm,

Having any race as the "normal" one is something I am keen to avoid. Each race should have its own distinctive hat, and in that regard, "being average" isn't a hat worthy of the name. I think I'm going for the determinator (with a hint of warrior) as the human hat.

[Ziegander]

• Two +2 bonuses to rarely-encountered environmental conditions that can be avoided with a level 1 spell (Endure Elements).
• A 1/day ability to negate a condition imposed by very few common activities short of a Barbarian's Rage.
• A re-roll of a single saving throw 1/day.
• 1 extra class skill.

That's a rather pathetic list of racial features, honestly. I'd never take this, from a mechanical perspective.

It also grants a re-roll of the extra class skill 1/day, but yes, I agree that it's still very weak. Of course, other than Dwarves, the PHB races are pretty weak as well. I'd consider giving the Human back the extra skill point per level.

[Veyr]

Uhh... Gnomes are excellent, actually, especially for casterly types - Small means you're harder to hit and have any easier time hitting, penalty to Strength is meaningless, bonus to Constitution is awesome, plus a smorgasbord of bonuses (+1 to Illusion DCs? yesplz!) and a decent handful of Spell-likes.

[pyrefiend]

I don't like the idea of simply giving humans extra action points, or generic bonuses, or the like. It feels like a cop out. I'd rather take one feature of mankind and make it unique to humans, plain and simple- just don't give it to the dwarves and elves and kobolds.

The idea I've been toying with for a month or so is this: music is unique to human culture, and only evokes emotional responses in humans. Other races have art, but dwarven warriors don't march in time to drum beats, elves don't pluck at lyres in their tree forts, etc. Humans get various bonuses and abilities while music is playing, and the bard is a humans-only prestige class which takes advantage of these features.

I'm not just saying that the other cultures somehow never discovered music, I'm saying that humans are the only race wired to respond to melodic sound in any way. The influence of music is already somewhat ethereal and even mystical, so why not let humans hold on to that?

[Ajadea]

Something I've thought of is making humanity's 'hat', so to speak, 'ambition as a virtue'.

Many of the core civilized races have longer lives. The only one that doesn't have an appreciably longer lifespan (halflings) is unnaturally lucky, and are very difficult to scare. With their total of a +3 racial bonus vs. fear effects, an average 1st level halfling commoner is nearly as hard to scare as an average 1st level human cleric.

Humans don't have that time. They don't have that luck. They scare as easy as any other race. They don't have the grace of an elf or the strength of a dwarf. And they know that. But they are arguably the biggest dreamers of the core races. A halfling or half-elf drifts, an elf dabbles, a dwarf follows tradition, a gnome works magic with words. And the humans make things happen.

Maybe make their racial features reflect that.