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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    The Brawler: The arts of unarmed combat are many and varied, and not all require years of disciplined study and practice. Indeed, many learn the ways of unarmed combat in dark alleyways, and tavern brawls, or amongst friends in friendly, brutal bouts. The Brawler represents these other forms of learning, without the discipline or enlightenment of the standard monk. Those whom can take a hit and give it back.

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    HD: d10

    Skills:
    The brawler's class skills and their key abilities are: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge: local (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points:
    At First: (4+Int Mod)x4
    Each level after first: 4+Int Mod

    Table:
    {table]Level|BAB|FS|RS|WS|Special|Unarmed Damage
    1|+1|+2|+2|+2|Improved Unarmed Strike|1d4
    2|+2|+3|+3|+3|Combat Trick|1d4
    3|+3|+3|+3|+3|Kip Up, Combat Trick|1d6
    4|+4|+4|+4|+4|Unarmed Parry|1d6[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Brawler is proficient with improvised weapons, unarmed strikes, simple weapons, and light armor.
    Kip Up: The character may rise from a sitting, or prone position to a standing position as a free action.
    Unarmed Parry: The character may attempt to deflect an incoming melee attack once per round. The character rolls an attack roll against a DC of the opposing character's attack roll. If the character rolls higher the attack is deflected and the damage is negated. The use of this ability must be declared before damage has been rolled.
    Combat Tricks: A brawler learns a very different form of unarmed combat than a monk. Its survival often depending on hitting first, hitting hard, or using tricks in order to win, even in situations where they are outnumbered. Combat Tricks may be taken from any level equal to or below the character's own level. These abilities are not limited to being used any certain number of times per day. the player must declare they are using a combat trick before attempting the attack. Combat tricks may be used once per day per level of Brawler.
    (Clarification for dummies: Combat tricks are, unless otherwise stated under the combat tricks description: performed as part of an attack action. Shove is a bullrush attempt that does not require moving, therefor it is otherwise the same as bullrush.)
    1st tier:
    Shove: the brawler may attempt a bullrush without requiring movement. This provokes attacks of opportunity.
    Stunning Fist: If the attack is successful and deals damage, the target is stunned for one round, or two rounds on a successful critical hit. The will save DC to avoid being stunned is 10+(1/2x(Brawler level+str or dex mod)). (dex mod is used if the character uses weapon finesse.)
    15th Tier:
    Death Punch: The character attempts to brain or otherwise kill its opponent. The target of this ability must succeed a fortitude save vs a DC of 10+damage dealt, or die from massive damage to the head, or chest cavity. This ability has a 25% chance of working against undead, and 50% against outsiders. It otherwise does not work against opponents immune to criticals.


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    Last edited by Ralasha; 2011-03-17 at 06:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    i like the concept, but how about adding a column for Combat tricks (like invocation known for warlocks)?

    Also, Shove looks ok for a 1st level ability, but stunning fist is way too good. As written, this is an at-will, no save stun at 1st level. Also, what is the action cost of these abilities?
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    Planning on combat tricks running more like bonus feats, some will have requirements, others will not.

    Why does no one ever read the fine print? It says in there it actually SAYS that they are part of an attack action. How is this confusing?

    Save added to the stunning fist. Also, it wasn't automatic in the first place, as they would still be required to hit.
    Last edited by Ralasha; 2011-03-17 at 11:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    For five finger death punch would someone who was immune to dying from massive damage be immune?

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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    What power level are you aiming for? It seems pretty powerful compared to the other base classes.

    For example, why does it have monk saves?
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    No, it's not damage from massive damage, so much as death from having your brain squirt out your ears, or your vital organs destroyed.

    It has monks unarmed, combative abilities monk saves and lacks: their AC bonus, movement speed bonus, spell resistance, immunity to poisons and diseases, immunity to mind effects, ability to heal themselves, ability to use dimensional step, etc. They lack most of the benefits of being a monk, but gain: 1 increase to hit die size, and abilities that don't require resting between use. Keep in mind, all of the abilities from each tier will be equivalent to each other.

    As I see it, a street fighter would require better saves than most, in a street fight, you might encounter poisons (Fort), stunning fists(Will), a trip attempt (Reflex).
    Last edited by Ralasha; 2011-03-17 at 03:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    I think the issue with the class is that it's too close to the monk in flavor and approach. Even 'five finger death strike' sounds very much like a monk ability, and that's coupled with your having stunning fist and a bunch of the monk class features.

    There's a lot of potential here - I do like the idea of a brawler archetype in a group - but I envision the brawler primarily as someone who thrives on getting into the thick of a fight, using whatever is available to dish out the pain, and generally making a goal out of making life as unpleasant and difficult for the enemy as possible.

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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    What you envision, and what I envision are nearly the same things. You look at something, not yet complete and consider it too different from the end goal. I have a suggestion. Make your own version. Then once mine is complete we will compare, and see which one is more of a brawler. I've been in fights, and it doesn't take monastic training to know that if you hit someone just under the chin it will stun them for a moment. It also doesn't take years of monastic training to box someone's ears, which will also stun them for a moment. It also doesn't take years of monastic training to punch someone in the solar plexus, and leave them doubled over, unable to breath.

    This class shares 3 class features with the monk, and I fail to see how that makes them 'too similar'. Forgive me if I'm stubborn, or harsh, but I really don't care about your 'vision' I did not start making this class to hear about 'other peoples imaginings of things' they did not make. I made this thread in the hopes of gaining real, and useful ideas and advice, rather than grandios sounding empty words with no real value.

    You see a problem, so you point it out, perhaps I also see the problem, but failed at finding a solution, if you have a solution, then please, present it to me, or make your own class.
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    Last edited by Ralasha; 2011-03-17 at 04:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    You might want to make stunning fist's save 1/2 class level, or no one will be able to resist after level 10. Also, if it's part of the attack action, than a Brawler can use stunning fist on all his attacks in a full attack, and on attack of opportunities, etc. This could get ridiculous really fast, and I recommend making it a swift or immediate action usable during an attack.
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    A brawler strikes me as someone who would look at a monk do his thing, go "Why would he do a flying crescent kick when you can knock someone upside with the wrench?"

    You sap your brawler of some flavor by giving them monk / monk like abilities. Or rather, you instead sap from where your brawler is supposed to be going by opening it with monk abilities both early level and later level. In short, you sort of lead anyone looking at this into seeing it as a Monk variant rather than an individual class.

    Make sense?

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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    Let's see... First, there's no reason to not stunning fist or some other combat trick on every attack you make, and considering the many ways of boosting strength, it's rather easy to crank up to a huge level. As written, you only add half your strength or dexterity mod, but I assume that's a mistake. And you should probably rename it to something other than Stunning Fist, since that's a separate and distinct feat. Also, you don't actually say what save it targets, although presumably fortitude.

    I can't really see a good justification for a brawler having a good will save. The whole point of the class is the lack of a disciplined training regimen, and there's no real mental strength needed for face-punching. And monk's Stunning Fists, at the very least, target Fort, not Will.

    Five Finger Death Punch: First off, what's with the name? You pretty much use the same number of fingers in any given punch, and the thumb probably shouldn't be one of them. Second, the fact that the DC scales with damage makes it possible to pump the DC up to preposterous levels very, very easily. Combined with the ability to use this on every single attack, and you ought to be pretty much killing someone with every punch once you hit level 15. And why do outsiders have 50% immunity?
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    Fifteen!
    Fifteen what, you ask? Fifteen home-brewed "unarmed warrior" classes, independently given the title "Brawler".
    The previous ones are here, here, here, here, here, here, here (cough), here, here, here, here, here, here, and over there on a different forum.

    EDIT: Scratch that last one, the link certainly used to be valid.
    Last edited by NakedCelt; 2011-03-17 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Invalid link

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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    Yes, and thank you for proving that my class is not so very similar to the monk.cough, cough, and cough.
    Last edited by Ralasha; 2011-03-18 at 03:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralasha View Post
    Yes, and thank you for proving that my class is not so very similar to the monk.cough, cough, and cough.
    That hardly proves that your class isn't similar to the monk, only that others are. But since the class isn't remotely finished, we might reserve judgement until more is built.
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    Default Re: Brawler Core Class (Comments or suggestions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralasha View Post
    What you envision, and what I envision are nearly the same things. You look at something, not yet complete and consider it too different from the end goal. I have a suggestion. Make your own version.
    I've noticed a defensive tone in your responses, which is not a good thing in the Homebrew section. If you're posting something just to showcase it, that's fine, but say so. Generally we default to "PEACH" here, just like the Roleplaying forum defaults to D&D 3.5. If you aren't willing to have your creation torn to pieces by well-meaning homebrewers (many of which will have more experience and skill than you), you probably shouldn't post here, or specifically state you're not looking for critique.

    Otherwise, there isn't really enough here to comment on. My only suggestions are presentation related: Place the abilities in the order they are received (Kip Up and Unarmed Parry are gained after Combat Tricks, for example), state that they get Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat in the description just like any other class feature, and fill out the table (even if the class features will be largely empty) so it doesn't get mistaken for a prestige class.

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