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    Default One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

    There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.

    Edit to clarify: We're talking actual sorcerer spellcasting, not bonus spells heaped onto a random character.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-03-19 at 02:17 AM.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

    There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.
    Like, to actually play, or more like one of those "what would you pick IRL?" type deals? It's important since I personally would pick spells I think are awesome but not for adventuring. I'd rather live.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Ah, sorry, to play. Assuming you only got one of each level, what would you take?
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    ok.

    0th- prestidigitation narrowly beats out amanuensis for my favorite cantrip. Never having to bother actually copying anything by hand is narrowly beat out by how many things the other one can do.

    1st- grease is the BC winner here for reasons I don't feel compelled to restate.

    2nd- glitterdust for the same reason.

    3rd- stinking cloud, are you seeing a pattern?

    4th- resilient sphere I guess, hard choice though.

    5th- overland flight. Walking is hard, it sucks.

    6th- greater dispel because well, do I need a reason to pick one this useful?

    7th- greater teleport beats out control weather here, because if I don't like the weather that well, I can just leave.
    Last edited by Marnath; 2011-03-19 at 02:06 AM.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Are you forced to use Cha for the save DCs of the bonus spells, or can you use your casting stat if it is different? This would help me decide if I should avoid spells that have a save or not, as well as whether its more worthwhile to be a different Cha-based class (e.g. Wilder or PF Paladin) or if I can be a psion.

    Also, what is our caster level for these bonus spells - can we use our own caster/manifester level if we have one, or are we treated as having only the minimum caster level needed to cast the bonus spells?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Are you forced to use Cha for the save DCs of the bonus spells, or can you use your casting stat if it is different? This would help me decide if I should avoid spells that have a save or not, as well as whether its more worthwhile to be a different Cha-based class (e.g. Wilder or PF Paladin) or if I can be a psion.

    Also, what is our caster level for these bonus spells - can we use our own caster/manifester level if we have one, or are we treated as having only the minimum caster level needed to cast the bonus spells?
    I assumed the intention was we'd be taking actual sorceror levels. Naturally I'd pick different stuff if I get a real class too.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    I assumed the intention was we'd be taking actual sorceror levels. Naturally I'd pick different stuff if I get a real class too.
    I read it as "you get one free sorcerer spell of each spell level," e.g. you're a fighter in a magic-infused land. Though I could be wrong of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    1st- grease is the BC winner here for reasons I don't feel compelled to restate.

    2nd- glitterdust for the same reason.

    3rd- stinking cloud, are you seeing a pattern?

    4th- resilient sphere I guess, hard choice though.

    5th- overland flight. Walking is hard, it sucks.

    6th- greater dispel because well, do I need a reason to pick one this useful?

    7th- greater teleport beats out control weather here, because if I don't like the weather that well, I can just leave.
    While wonderfully controlling given the limitations, that's all it does. I wasn't necessarily looking for the best spells ever per level, but rather the best spells of these levels combined that allow you to do the most things. Shutdown is all well and good, but the hypothetical character still needs some way of actually dealing with his enemies - hitpoint damage, domination, save or die, whatever.

    I assumed the intention was we'd be taking actual sorceror levels. Naturally I'd pick different stuff if I get a real class too.
    Correct. Hypothetical sorcerer with actual sorcerer casting, but only one of each spell level.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    May we know the context of this question? Is this to be played as a PC (say some homebrewed spellcasting class), or as some npc to be pitted against the party?

    If in the hands of a PC, dealing with his foes isn't so great a concern, that's what you have fighters for. If as a solo BBEG, then that may prove a problem, but you can just as readily give him mooks as support/sponges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    If I am not mistaken it is for using the spell-like of this homebrew in a lvl 8 PbP: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...php?p=10583288


    Personally I always liked the following spells:


    Lvl 1:
    Fist of stone, +6 str for 1 minute, doesnt apply to everything.
    Ray of Flame, 1d6/2lvls firedmg+ IGNITES target (gotta love setting them on fire with a lvl 1 spell)

    Lvl 2:
    Bladeweave, adds free dazing touch attack
    Fearsome grapple, teh mad grapple mods
    Heroics, temporary fighter feat
    Whirling blade, makes your weapon a 60ft line attack
    Wraithstrike, touch attacks, nuff said

    Lvl 3:
    Bands of Steel, save or suck
    Manyjaws, ghostkiller
    Dolorous Blow, teh mad crits
    Gorillon's Blessing, extra arms
    Tremorsense, tremorsense 30

    Lvl 4: wont come up for a bit and this post is getting lenghty...

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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Levels 1-7? Interesting. Anything to do with your 'Ascendant' series of classes by any chance?

    1st- Magic Missile

    2nd- Rope Trick

    3rd- Fly

    4th- Evard's Black Tentacles

    5th- Teleport

    6th- Wall of Iron

    7th- Prismatic Spray

    I'm sure there are better choices to make, but I like these seven.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    While wonderfully controlling given the limitations, that's all it does. I wasn't necessarily looking for the best spells ever per level, but rather the best spells of these levels combined that allow you to do the most things. Shutdown is all well and good, but the hypothetical character still needs some way of actually dealing with his enemies - hitpoint damage, domination, save or die, whatever.
    He does have a way to do hp damage. It's called a fighter/barbarian/etc.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Escheton View Post
    If I am not mistaken it is for using the spell-like of this homebrew in a lvl 8 PbP: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...php?p=10583288
    Not exactly. The Ascendant a) gets more than one spell per level, and b) has already had its spells picked out by me. The thread was inspired by the concept of minimal spells per level, but not so I could pick the most borked spells in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath
    He does have a way to do hp damage. It's called a fighter/barbarian/etc.
    Missing the point of the exercise.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-03-19 at 03:50 PM.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Then my spellsuggestions are probably not very good as they are mostly based on combat characters getting an edge with a spell.
    A normal cast-only type would need completely diffrerent spells, I'll peruse the SC again in a bit then.

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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    Missing the point of the exercise.
    Fine.
    I'll replace my 6th and 7th for chain lightning and summon monster 7. Assuming the minimum level to cast 7th level spells, I have feats enough for energy substitution into all 4 types that aren't lightning, as well as versatile spellcaster and one or more attack reserve feats (based on whether energy sub. on chain lightning allows you to count as knowing a fire/acid/cold/sonic 6th level spell). that way I can use two or three chain lightnings a day based on my CHA and still have a slot left to power my attack reserve feat(s?).
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    1. hail of stone
    2. wings of cover
    3. mass snake's swiftness
    4. ruin delver's fortune
    5. arcane fusion
    6. freezing fog
    7. planar bubble

    Why I chose these spells: my character is a githyanki, and auto-quickens spells for free within a planar bubble. Between that and arcane fusion, I can metamagic-enhance hail of stone enough to deal respectable, unavoidable damage to multiple targets per round. Freezing fog supplies battlefield control, while mass snake's swiftness makes my allies happy, and is especially entertaining when twinned, repeated, etc. Ruin delver's fortune and wings of cover keep me safe.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-03-19 at 07:04 PM.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Only one person chose magic missile. For shame. And no limited wish? I mean seriously, limited wish is THE spell you want in this situation.

    >_>
    Last edited by Sacrieur; 2011-03-19 at 07:19 PM.

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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrieur View Post
    I mean seriously, limited wish is THE spell you want in this situation.
    That was my thinking too, but it's nice to see how wildly opinions vary on 7th level spells.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    I considered Limited Wish to fall under the "exploitative" things. I assume others did too. Plus, Prismatic Spray! Who doesn't want to shoot rainbows at people?
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

    There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.
    Looks like limited wish is fine. It's not exploiting the spell at all, and it does cover all of the bases.
    Last edited by Sacrieur; 2011-03-19 at 07:42 PM.

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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Let's see...

    1- Silent Image. No contest.
    2- Alter Self, with Glitterdust and Minor Image close behind.
    3- Explosive Runes, just for the lulz.
    4- P-p-p-Polymorph!
    5- Teleport, totally.
    6- Disintegrate. Has a million and one uses, all of which involve strategic destruction.
    7- Limited Wish, duh.

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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Fine.
    I'll replace my 6th and 7th for chain lightning and summon monster 7. Assuming the minimum level to cast 7th level spells, I have feats enough for energy substitution into all 4 types that aren't lightning, as well as versatile spellcaster and one or more attack reserve feats (based on whether energy sub. on chain lightning allows you to count as knowing a fire/acid/cold/sonic 6th level spell). that way I can use two or three chain lightnings a day based on my CHA and still have a slot left to power my attack reserve feat(s?).
    Can anyone confirm for me whether that works? It would be way feat intensive but being able to operate two or three energy at-will attacks off one slot and one spell known would be great.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

    There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.

    Edit to clarify: We're talking actual sorcerer spellcasting, not bonus spells heaped onto a random character.
    I was going to suggest all dominating and charming powers, until I noticed this wasnt an "In real life" question. xD
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    You forgot illusions and being able to fly or teleport.

    Hmm... Let's try building for that.

    0- Prestidigitation, still.
    1- Charm Person. Take over the world.
    2- Invisibility, obviously.
    3-
    4- Polymorph, since it would be awesome in the real world.
    5- Teleport.
    6- Mass Suggestion.
    7- Limited Wish.

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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Wait, are we doing real world picks now?

    0th- Mending!

    1st- Endure Elements, I hate being too hot almost as much as I hate being too cold.

    2nd- Detect Thoughts could provide all sorts of opportunities, legal or otherwise. I'd stick with legal, honest.

    3rd- Water breathing, because I've always been afraid of drowning. >.>

    4th- Greater Invisibility for evading nosy relatives.

    5th- Baleful Polymorph, because I need some way to defend myself and it's better than just killing them. Besides, is magic really worth having if you can't turn people into toads?

    6th- Mass Suggestion, great for defusing angry mobs/barfights/those people who sing for birthdays at Applebee's.

    7th- Greater Teleport, with no range limit I can go anywhere I want, and not having to worry about appearing in a wall or on a busy road is a plus over regular teleport.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Can anyone confirm for me whether that works? It would be way feat intensive but being able to operate two or three energy at-will attacks off one slot and one spell known would be great.
    It works. It is probably better on resources to pick Heighten, and Acid Spash, Ray of Frost, Lesser Orb of Lightning, and Orb of Fire. That only uses 2 0th, 1st, and 1 4th level known. And, Orb of Fire is just worth knowing.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    It works. It is probably better on resources to pick Heighten, and Acid Spash, Ray of Frost, Lesser Orb of Lightning, and Orb of Fire. That only uses 2 0th, 1st, and 1 4th level known. And, Orb of Fire is just worth knowing.
    Yeah, heighten would be way more efficient. Actually could make that better by taking electric jolt and scorching ray, saves you a first and 4th level spell. For this particular exercise though, taking all those feats would be best.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Would heighten not just up the spell level, and thus the dc? Leaving the damage the same as the base spell.
    The only way that I recall such uses is heightening silent image on a very specific gnome build.

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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Escheton View Post
    Would heighten not just up the spell level, and thus the dc? Leaving the damage the same as the base spell.
    The only way that I recall such uses is heightening silent image on a very specific gnome build.
    No, heighten makes it count as a Xth level spell known for purposes of Fiery Burst and it's friends.
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    Default Re: One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

    Heighten Spell does not raise your CL, only the spell's level. Which means that the spell functions just as it says in its description, but it is harder to counterspell or resist.

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