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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gomipile's Avatar

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    Default Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Since Dweomerkeeper progresses a spellcasting class, not specifically an arcane or divine class, could one choose Mystic Theurge as the class progressed by Dweomerkeeper?

    IE(with feats for early entry into Mystic Theurge): Cleric 2/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 2/Dweomerkeeper X

    Also(assuming this works at all), what happens in the above build after you get to Dweomerkeeper 8? Does Dweomerkeeper 9 give you any spells at all, since MT only has 10 levels?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    No. PrCs that grant "+1 existing spellcasting class" aren't spellcasting classes themselves. They can only progress classes that have their own table of spells/day.
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    _________________________________
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    gomipile's Avatar

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    No. PrCs that grant "+1 existing spellcasting class" aren't spellcasting classes themselves. They can only progress classes that have their own table of spells/day.
    Can you provide a relevant quote to that effect?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    It would need a relevant quote to be proved, not disproved. As Keld said they improve your spellcasting from a spellcasting class, which a theurge is not.

    To put it another way it's the difference between a cleric/prestige paladin and a paladin, prestige paladin improves cleric spellcasting whereas paladin improves paladin spellcasting. If you added another prestige class such as dweomerkeeper to the prestige paladin then you'd still be advancing cleric spellcasting.

    TLDR: '+1 existing spellcasting class' improves a single spellcasting class. Mystic theurge improves two at once, but they're still seperate spellcasting classes so '+1 existing spellcasting class' will only improve one.
    Last edited by Goonthegoof; 2011-03-22 at 03:36 AM.
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    Can you provide a relevant quote to that effect?
    Sure. Look at any theurge's class table. Note the lack of spells/day and spells known. That's because they don't have any.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Plus, then you'd get sillyness like a Cleric1/Druid1/Wizard1/Sorcerer1/Psion1/Bard1/Warlock1/Cerebromancer1/ArcaneHeirophant1/UltimateMagus1
    /EldrichThurge1/EldrichDisciple1/MysticTheurge10 who functions as like, a 15th level character in each class.

    Thats just silly. Plus, what Goonthegoof said.
    Last edited by Keld Denar; 2011-03-22 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Screen stretchiness
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    I see the term "spellcasting class" as "class which improves your spellcasting ability" or "a class which has class features which allow the casting of spells."

    Your argument is like saying that a corporate accounting firm is not a "moneymaking corporation" because it only improves the money other corporations make.

    Maybe I'm looking at this from too common sense of a perspective, though that shouldn't be too much of a problem since I have a degree in mathematics.

    Sigh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    Maybe I'm looking at this from too common sense of a perspective, though that shouldn't be too much of a problem since I have a degree in mathematics.

    Sigh.
    Did you read Keld's post? "Common sense" has nothing to do with what you're proposing.

    EDIT: also, accounting firms are partnerships, not corporations. Trading stock publicly would impair their independence. While we're being accurate and all.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2011-03-22 at 02:45 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism.
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Did you read Keld's post? "Common sense" has nothing to do with what you're proposing.

    EDIT: also, accounting firms are partnerships, not corporations. Trading stock publicly would impair their independence. While we're being accurate and all.
    Corporations don't have to sell any stock publicly. And some accounting firms are, in fact, incorporated, to limit liability.

    Edit: Searching for the two terms: Accounting and LLC together turns up at least several accounting LLCs.
    Last edited by gomipile; 2011-03-22 at 02:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Prestige classes that advance existing spellcasting and classes that have spell casting are two different things.

    Because lets look at it this way, lets completely remove all requirements of the classes. Right from level 1, you take a Theurge class. Do you get spellcasting? No, the class doesn't provide any, it only enhances what is already existing from other classes.

    Since you don't have any spellcasting, there is nothing for Dweomerkeeper to advance. Spellcasting class is defined by having spells. Dweomerkeeper can't advance the Theurge because it has no casting, rather it advances casting as a Class Feature.

    In order to advance a Theurge class, you'd have to look at a PrC that states it advances Class Features, like Legacy Champion or Uncanny Trickster. A spellcasting advancement PrC cannot advance a spellcasting advancement PrC, both must pick a class that provides casting levels.

    Because neither Dweomerkeeper or Theurge have Class Spell Lists, or Class Caster Levels. These are classes that need Wizard, Cleric or the like.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Mystic theurge says '+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class'. The spell lists/CL/spells per day still remain seperate - theurge just advances both at once. Again, you can't use dweomerkeeper to improve the theurge's spellcasting because the theurge does not have spellcasting of its own, it merely improves the spellcasting of the spellcasting classes used to enter it.
    Last edited by Goonthegoof; 2011-03-22 at 03:42 AM.
    Currently moving houses, posting will be sporadic for the next little while.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Besides, no one would ever take more than 1 lv in MT if you could apply other prcs to it. Advancing dual spellcasting is the only thing MT has going for it, since it has no other class features.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    Default Re: Can Dweomerkeeper progress a theurge class?

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    Corporations don't have to sell any stock publicly. And some accounting firms are, in fact, incorporated, to limit liability.

    Edit: Searching for the two terms: Accounting and LLC together turns up at least several accounting LLCs.
    An LLC is not a corporation. The "C" stands for "Company."

    And a spellcasting class is "a class which has a spellcasting progression." Theurges do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism.
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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