LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

[RaggedAngel]

Mwahaha! Clearly my evil scheme must continue! (Cuddles more!)

*looks to the left*

*looks to the right*

I can has cuddles?

[Coidzor]

It's just... not a good situation. And there are other people like that in my LGBT group, and I feel like I shouldn't get to be happy while they have so much **** that they have to deal with.

Of course it's not a good situation, there's more bad situations than not in this life, regardless of one's sexuality.

If you beat yourself up over your relative good fortune, all you'll accomplish there is an early grave from the stress-related complications, and, well, that would definitely prevent you from rendering such assistance as you were able.

[Lix Lorn]

*looks to the left*

*looks to the right*

I can has cuddles?

EVERYONE can!
(cuddles all)
(ALL)

[Worira]

Spoiler

Show

"Thanks, Lix! Nobody ever cuddles me :("

[golentan]

Spoiler

Show

"Thanks, Lix! Nobody ever cuddles me :("

Spoiler

Show

Better?

[Blisstake]

Somehow, cuddling online doesn't feel as comfy.

[bluewind95]

But it's better than nothing for people like me who get, like, nothing at all.

[Blisstake]

Virtual cuddling, it is.

[Miscast_Mage]

Spoiler

Show

"Thanks, Lix! Nobody ever cuddles me :("

Spoiler

Show

There's always someone who has it worse.
Also; bewwy wubs!

[RaggedAngel]

Somehow, cuddling online doesn't feel as comfy.

It's less the "yay warm hugs" aspect of it and more the "someone out there wants me to be happy" part. It one of the things I like about you guys; you recognise and reflect my odd need for text-based hugs.

[Coidzor]

But it's better than nothing for people like me who get, like, nothing at all.

I always find it more frustrating and depressing myself. C'est la vie, I suppose.

And calls to mind a cracked article about why the internet makes us miserable or possibly the modern era.

Which just makes me feel conflicted about being reminded of a cracked article.

[Mina Kobold]

Spoiler

Show

There's always someone who has it worse.
Also; bewwy wubs!

I wanna hug him! I love Death! ^_^


I dislike death, though. It's not gonna comfort me and hold my hand when I walk into the beyond.

Which is mean! >_<

I always find it more frustrating and depressing myself. C'est la vie, I suppose.

And calls to mind a cracked article about why the internet makes us miserable or possibly the modern era.

Which just makes me feel conflicted about being reminded of a cracked article.

I read one about how those we may think have little social activity because they're addicted to the Internet may in fact be those that'd otherwise be miserable and alone because they can't do social stuff face-to-face.

So thanks for being so nice to us all, everybody.

[unosarta]

Spoiler

Show

No. It may not be entirely reasonable, but it is very understandable that you'd like for others to have parents who are supportive, just as yours are. So long as you realize it's hardly your fault they have problems and you don't, it shouldn't be a problem

Good point, actually.

Before I go back to sulking in the corner about how cruel the world is I will say that at least you can be happy that society has gotten a little better since the times that homosexuality was considered an illness and about what you can do to help it improve even more without having to fight your own parents.

The world may not be perfect, but it's trying.

Now if you'll excuse me, I will be sitting here being sad and Goth because people like your friend's mother exist. T_T

Unosarta, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you shouldn't feel guilty for the actions of others. I'm not saying I don't understand your reasons, but that way lies madness. All you can really do is be there if needed to support people who are less fortunate.

Of course it's not a good situation, there's more bad situations than not in this life, regardless of one's sexuality.

If you beat yourself up over your relative good fortune, all you'll accomplish there is an early grave from the stress-related complications, and, well, that would definitely prevent you from rendering such assistance as you were able.

I know that I shouldn't, and that is part of the problem. And I am there to support my friends, it's just... it feels like that won't help them enough. Or at least, enough to make me feel better about it. Which, upon thinking about it, also makes me feel like I am being selfish, which also makes me feel guilty...

Arrgh...

[Miscast_Mage]

I know that I shouldn't, and that is part of the problem. And I am there to support my friends, it's just... it feels like that won't help them enough. Or at least, enough to make me feel better about it. Which, upon thinking about it, also makes me feel like I am being selfish, which also makes me feel guilty...

Arrgh...

Behold the frustration and screwed up logic of a guilt complex. It sucks, I know.

Here, have a Miscast_Mage's gentle bear-hug. *hugs*

[unosarta]

Behold the frustration and screwed up logic of a guilt complex. It sucks, I know.

Here, have a Miscast_Mage's gentle bear-hug. *hugs*

I don't know. The description for it here doesn't really sound like me, from my own personal self-understanding; although it certainly could be a possibility.

Also, this has happened before. Like, when I get so worked up I start crying, I get angry at myself for crying. And then, if I get frustrated enough about it, I start crying more.

Thank you for the hugs, though. And now I just realized that I am getting sympathy from people, even though my situation is perfectly all right, acceptable, and much better than that of other people I know.

****.

[Coidzor]

I don't know. The description for it here doesn't really sound like me, from my own personal self-understanding; although it certainly could be a possibility.

Also, this has happened before. Like, when I get so worked up I start crying, I get angry at myself for crying. And then, if I get frustrated enough about it, I start crying more.

Thank you for the hugs, though. And now I just realized that I am getting sympathy from people, even though my situation is perfectly all right, acceptable, and much better than that of other people I know.

****.

I'd recommend exploring this more fully and at length through a variety of media and then see whether you need to consult with others. It might be at least partially a time thing, or perhaps you just want to start doing some higher level of volunteerism than you currently do.

At the very, very least, I'd recommend being aware of those who seek to profit off of the guilt of others and taking steps to avoid them.

[unosarta]

I'd recommend exploring this more fully and at length through a variety of media and then see whether you need to consult with others. It might be at least partially a time thing, or perhaps you just want to start doing some higher level of volunteerism than you currently do.

At the very, very least, I'd recommend being aware of those who seek to profit off of the guilt of others and taking steps to avoid them.

I don't really have enough time in my schedule to do anything like volunteering; I would honestly love to, but I just don't have the time. ;_;

I don't really talk about my guilt to... anyone. Besides maybe you guys, just now.

[Coidzor]

I don't really have enough time in my schedule to do anything like volunteering; I would honestly love to, but I just don't have the time. ;_;

I don't really talk about my guilt to... anyone. Besides maybe you guys, just now.

Well, I find working out things with at least yourself, getting it external so you can look at it slightly more objectively, even speaking it to the empty air while alone does wonders sometimes. And having to hash it out in terms that someone else understands helps add clarity to what you're feeling and also can present ways to address it, independent of whatever perspective and advice the other person can contribute.

So I'd urge you to consider your options with regards to getting it off your chest.

[Lix Lorn]

Listen close, 'Sarta, this is something a very, very unfortunate friend told me and it's really important.

No matter how much worse someone else may have it, if something upsets you, you deserve sympathy and help and cuddles.

No exceptions.

[golentan]

Listen close, 'Sarta, this is something a very, very unfortunate friend told me and it's really important.

No matter how much worse someone else may have it, if something upsets you, you deserve sympathy and help and cuddles.

No exceptions.

Correction. Exceptions for unrepentant murderers, rapists, et. al.

Though I kind of doubt numero uno falls into that. He seems awesome and deserves cuddles.

[Lix Lorn]

I'm going to avoid splitting moral hairs and agree with you.

[Blisstake]

Correction. Exceptions for unrepentant murderers, rapists, et. al.

Though I kind of doubt numero uno falls into that. He seems awesome and deserves cuddles.

And slavers, I imagine.

[Skeppio]

I don't really have enough time in my schedule to do anything like volunteering; I would honestly love to, but I just don't have the time. ;_;

I don't really talk about my guilt to... anyone. Besides maybe you guys, just now.

I know how you feel, mate. Here, have some more hugs. *hugs*

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Spoiler

Show

While we're on the topic of bi songs, I really like this one.

Regretably, I cannot answer your question.

My internet connection's the pits so I couldn't listen to the song. I'll bear it in mind for future reference though.

Sexuality is one of the most personal things about a person. No one's sexuality will ever be exactly the same as another person's, and you definitely shouldn't worry about that.

Again, understanding that sexuality is really personal, and that labels will never be really fully effective at describing someone's sexuality or gender truly efficiently, you do sound sort of Asexual, and you sound sort of like how they describe Biromantic. As a note; asexuality is totally cool. I think that and/or a various number of other "A" words are what the "A" in "LGBTAitp" stand for. Purportedly (heh, love that word).

As for a group that is LGBT themed: I find it kind of helpful. It is nice to find a place where I can talk to and see people besides me who are LGBT. If you ever really need to talk about a problem you are having, that is a good location to do so, or so I have found. Either way, you can always just try it out, and then drop it if you don't find the experience helpful, or if you need more free time.

Thanks. It's only been in the last two years or so that I've been considering this in much detail myself, up until recently I'd been pretty used to everybody telling me there'd come a time when I'd "get it" as far as sexual attraction goes, eventually. I guess that's not entirely impossible, but it's come to a stage where I think really, this is just what I'm like and that's not really a problem. Not so far anyhow.
It's good to know what the appropriate labels would be though and maybe I will give the LGBT soc a try. As you say, if I don't like it, I can just mysteriously disappear from it, people drop out of university societies all the time, after all.
And Purportedly is a good word. I shall have to make a mental note to use that one more often.

ION: I came out to my Dad last night. Which was really, really awkward (mostly because he is really awkward).
Basically, they assumed that the guy who came over was going on a date with me, and then he asked me about it last night, and I told him.

Is it wrong of me to feel guilty that my parents are supportive, while I know several people whose parents would kick them out of their house if they came out to them?

Hope it was a relief to find your parents weren't bothered. (Not that they ought to have been, but it's nice to have fears ruled out)
I've not come out to anybody personally because I've not really had anything to tell them. I've explained my stance to my mum and she didn't really react at all, I guess because I was barely telling her anything she didn't already know. My dad (who's pretty awkward too) I've not spoken to about this kind of stuff. I don't think he likes to think of his daughters as people who'd date, although he does seem pretty keen on getting my younger brother to start seeing girls more, I'm not really sure what he'd think if my brother came out as gay, I think he'd rather his son dated girls because he's nuts about babies, but I'm pretty sure he'd be alright with my brother being gay otherwise (this is all moot as he's 15 and if he's given the subject any thought he doesn't seem to share it with the rest of us, he likes his privacy) and besides, Elton John adopted a kid recently, so it's not like babies couldn't be acquired.
I can sympathise with feeling guilty about supportive parents though - mine are great generally and I'll admit that one of my flatmates from last year really envied how supportive my dad was since hers was something of an absent "throw money at the problem and it will disappear" kind of dad which I felt kind of bad about, sometimes I think I take my folks for granted. Not LGBTA related, I know, but I'm incredibly lucky in that I don't think I've met anybody with similar situations - there again, I don't know many non-heteronormative people, or many people at all, so...
About the worst I've had on a personal level was a conversation my school friends were having where one of them said something along the lines of, "I can understand guys being gay, and I can understand girls being lesbians, but what's the deal with bisexuals? That's just greedy!" whereupon the general gathering nodded in agreement (which was odd because this girl had dated a few different boys so the concept of being attracted to more than one single person probably shouldn't have baffled her) but even then I was talking to my friend about it later and she cut me off in the middle to say how stupid she thought that comment was too. So I'm inordinately lucky/ pretty sheltered.
I guess what you have to do is replace the guilt with appreciation? I suppose as hard as it must be to have unsupportive parents, it must be good on some level to know that supportive ones do exist? It's a bit like that story from the other forum - it lets you know it's not really you that's the source of the problem...
I dunno. I usually get upset about these things then resolutely bury my head in the sand myself.

That's so close to me that I will have to challenge you to a duel of cuddles!

There is no other way!

I can obviously not give you any advice on being less frightened of people or I would have used it to hoard all the cuddles myself. But I can say that I call it asexual biromantic so there's a potential denominator there.

I also call it Uryoum, but I bet that will just make you more confused.

It's honestly a relief to hear I'm not alone in this.
I mean I knew out there in the big ol' world there were bound to be a few people bouncing around who had similar thoughts on the subject but, really, it's good to hear from a specific individual. I feel about 70% less bizarre now (about that, I'm plenty bizarre without taking sexuality into account) so thanks!
I'll have to look Uryoum up but won't tonight as I need to go relatively soon.

I want to cuddle with Keveak and Eleanor_Rigby.

This whole thread is just a great big cuddle queue, isn't it?

I don't know. The description for it here doesn't really sound like me, from my own personal self-understanding; although it certainly could be a possibility.

Also, this has happened before. Like, when I get so worked up I start crying, I get angry at myself for crying. And then, if I get frustrated enough about it, I start crying more.

Thank you for the hugs, though. And now I just realized that I am getting sympathy from people, even though my situation is perfectly all right, acceptable, and much better than that of other people I know.

****.

Well, I find working out things with at least yourself, getting it external so you can look at it slightly more objectively, even speaking it to the empty air while alone does wonders sometimes. And having to hash it out in terms that someone else understands helps add clarity to what you're feeling and also can present ways to address it, independent of whatever perspective and advice the other person can contribute.

So I'd urge you to consider your options with regards to getting it off your chest.

If this guilt thing is something that's bad enough to bring physical tears to your eyes on a regular basis then perhaps you should consider finding some way of talking to people about it. The depression thread might be worth a shot as well if you've not posted there before (I haven't so for all I know you could be a regular there!) and this has been getting to you for a while now - they seem pretty willing to help people who realise they have a problem, regardless of the scale and I think there are anonymous options there too just as there are here. As far as the outside world goes... if you're at school, college or university there's probably some sort of counselling service(s) around where you could openly weep at a person for twenty minutes or so and they'd be obligated to a)listen b)not be a jerk to you about it and c)keep quiet about it unless they thought you were in genuine danger of committing suicide. I've had mixed results with counselling to be honest but sometimes even if the person you end up going to is fairly useless, they'll know of an organisation that could be useful and can point you in a more helpful direction.

Much like every one else who's commented on this has said, you seem like a very considerate person as well as a fortunate one and the fact that your friends have been suffering is not your fault. I think you're perfectly entitled to happiness and I suspect your friends do to. (Reworded that way too many times trying to think of the least guilt-inducing phrasing!)

EDIT:

Listen close, 'Sarta, this is something a very, very unfortunate friend told me and it's really important.

No matter how much worse someone else may have it, if something upsets you, you deserve sympathy and help and cuddles.

No exceptions.

Lix has wise friend(s). And is wise also, obviously.

[Trog]

Trog knows that this used to be the LGBitp thread. And since then it looks like you've added more *looks at thread title, looks back* T&A?

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Never let it be said that Trog doesn't love a little T&A.

But uh seriously, Trog knows what "T" stands for... what's the "A" stand for?

[Mystic Muse]

Trog knows that this used to be the LGBitp thread. And since then it looks like you've added more *looks at thread title, looks back* T&A?

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Never let it be said that Trog doesn't love a little T&A.

But uh seriously, Trog knows what "T" stands for... what's the "A" stand for?

A-anything although the thing that came to mind was Asexual.

[Blisstake]

Asexual, I believe.

[Coidzor]

Asexual, I believe.

Yup, we've had about a page and a half worth of posts about how much people have enjoyed having their letter be part of the thread title now. I think about 6 pages worth of discussing the change so far, counting its implementation I think that's another 1-2.

There's really only asexuals and allies to choose from, and allies is generally so far down the list one hits about 7 letters before it gets into the picture.

[unosarta]

So many responses.

Spoiler

Show

Well, I find working out things with at least yourself, getting it external so you can look at it slightly more objectively, even speaking it to the empty air while alone does wonders sometimes. And having to hash it out in terms that someone else understands helps add clarity to what you're feeling and also can present ways to address it, independent of whatever perspective and advice the other person can contribute.

So I'd urge you to consider your options with regards to getting it off your chest.

Yeah, I talked to it with someone I know today, and she said that I really shouldn't feel that bad about it. And I guess I do, it is just kind of confusing, and introspection isn't really helping right now. I might go talk to my friends, but they all have absolutely ****ty personal lives (their parents are too poor (in the case of one friend, she couldn't afford the AP test), their parents don't care about them, their parents are buttheads, their parents siblings are buttheads); in fact, I think literally every friend that I would be willing to talk to this about is in a situation worse off than me, which makes it seem like I am just looking for attention, and bleargh.

Listen close, 'Sarta, this is something a very, very unfortunate friend told me and it's really important.

No matter how much worse someone else may have it, if something upsets you, you deserve sympathy and help and cuddles.

No exceptions.

This... this is a good mantra. *hugs for Lix*

Correction. Exceptions for unrepentant murderers, rapists, et. al.

Though I kind of doubt numero uno falls into that. He seems awesome and deserves cuddles.

A good addendum.

I know how you feel, mate. Here, have some more hugs. *hugs*

All these hugs are making me feel better. I was going to pass them on to my friends yesterday, but I forgot ; I will just have to do it tomorrow.

Thanks. It's only been in the last two years or so that I've been considering this in much detail myself, up until recently I'd been pretty used to everybody telling me there'd come a time when I'd "get it" as far as sexual attraction goes, eventually. I guess that's not entirely impossible, but it's come to a stage where I think really, this is just what I'm like and that's not really a problem. Not so far anyhow.
It's good to know what the appropriate labels would be though and maybe I will give the LGBT soc a try. As you say, if I don't like it, I can just mysteriously disappear from it, people drop out of university societies all the time, after all.
And Purportedly is a good word. I shall have to make a mental note to use that one more often.

People telling you that you will eventually "get it" or that you are just going through a "phase" are full of ****, pardon my French. Seriously.

I love that word. Unfortunately, my needlessly large lexicon tends to alienate others. Well, all the non-LGBT people anyway; they don't really care, since I am much more open about stuff with them, and we get on topics that have to do with sexuality often, and I don't use large words in those cases.

Hope it was a relief to find your parents weren't bothered. (Not that they ought to have been, but it's nice to have fears ruled out)
I've not come out to anybody personally because I've not really had anything to tell them. I've explained my stance to my mum and she didn't really react at all, I guess because I was barely telling her anything she didn't already know. My dad (who's pretty awkward too) I've not spoken to about this kind of stuff. I don't think he likes to think of his daughters as people who'd date, although he does seem pretty keen on getting my younger brother to start seeing girls more, I'm not really sure what he'd think if my brother came out as gay, I think he'd rather his son dated girls because he's nuts about babies, but I'm pretty sure he'd be alright with my brother being gay otherwise (this is all moot as he's 15 and if he's given the subject any thought he doesn't seem to share it with the rest of us, he likes his privacy) and besides, Elton John adopted a kid recently, so it's not like babies couldn't be acquired.
I can sympathise with feeling guilty about supportive parents though - mine are great generally and I'll admit that one of my flatmates from last year really envied how supportive my dad was since hers was something of an absent "throw money at the problem and it will disappear" kind of dad which I felt kind of bad about, sometimes I think I take my folks for granted. Not LGBTA related, I know, but I'm incredibly lucky in that I don't think I've met anybody with similar situations - there again, I don't know many non-heteronormative people, or many people at all, so...
About the worst I've had on a personal level was a conversation my school friends were having where one of them said something along the lines of, "I can understand guys being gay, and I can understand girls being lesbians, but what's the deal with bisexuals? That's just greedy!" whereupon the general gathering nodded in agreement (which was odd because this girl had dated a few different boys so the concept of being attracted to more than one single person probably shouldn't have baffled her) but even then I was talking to my friend about it later and she cut me off in the middle to say how stupid she thought that comment was too. So I'm inordinately lucky/ pretty sheltered.
I guess what you have to do is replace the guilt with appreciation? I suppose as hard as it must be to have unsupportive parents, it must be good on some level to know that supportive ones do exist? It's a bit like that story from the other forum - it lets you know it's not really you that's the source of the problem...
I dunno. I usually get upset about these things then resolutely bury my head in the sand myself.

Yeah. Oh man, I never understood parents' need for their children to have children that are biologically related to them. I would much rather adopt a child; there are far too many people in the world already, we don't need anymore as far as I am concerned. But that is kind of political, so anyway.

I feel bad for your old flatmate. That really sucks.

I could never, ever try to deny bisexuality A) because that would be denying a group of people's existence, which is just illogical since I know so many bisexual people, and B) because some of my closest LGBT friends are Bisexual, and they would never forgive me. But mostly A).

ION: Also, there was a representative from a Hmong LGBT group based in Minneapolis, who also happens to be the only Hmong LGBT group in the world. In the Hmong communities, being LGBT is something that would allow you to be disowned, and a lot of Hmong people are really homophobic. The younger generations are more exposed to LGBT stuff, so they tend to be less bigoted, but the older generations are still very, very homophobic. It made me really sad to hear that, since I know so many Hmong people.

This whole thread is just a great big cuddle queue, isn't it?

...Pretty much.

If this guilt thing is something that's bad enough to bring physical tears to your eyes on a regular basis then perhaps you should consider finding some way of talking to people about it. The depression thread might be worth a shot as well if you've not posted there before (I haven't so for all I know you could be a regular there!) and this has been getting to you for a while now - they seem pretty willing to help people who realise they have a problem, regardless of the scale and I think there are anonymous options there too just as there are here. As far as the outside world goes... if you're at school, college or university there's probably some sort of counselling service(s) around where you could openly weep at a person for twenty minutes or so and they'd be obligated to a)listen b)not be a jerk to you about it and c)keep quiet about it unless they thought you were in genuine danger of committing suicide. I've had mixed results with counselling to be honest but sometimes even if the person you end up going to is fairly useless, they'll know of an organisation that could be useful and can point you in a more helpful direction.

Oh, no no no. The guilt about the crying doesn't happen... ever. I cried for like, the stupidest reason during spring break (because I didn't get to see that previously mentioned guy...), which really made me angry, since I was assuming stuff, and I knew it, and I was angry about that, and then I was angry about crying, because tears don't solve anything, and it was just frustrating. But honestly, I hadn't cried like that in... a year or so. Like, really, I don't cry ever. That might have had something to do with it...
Actually the only time I have even come close to crying was when I was talking to the LGBT group at my school (which was also like 50 people at the time ) about a long time friend/acquaintance who called me a ****** (in jest, but it was really hurtful), and I almost started crying. But I managed to stop myself, since I was convinced I wasn't really upset about it (and I honestly still don't think I am).

Much like every one else who's commented on this has said, you seem like a very considerate person as well as a fortunate one and the fact that your friends have been suffering is not your fault. I think you're perfectly entitled to happiness and I suspect your friends do to. (Reworded that way too many times trying to think of the least guilt-inducing phrasing!)

Well, thank you. I hope your own situation goes well too.

[Serpentine]

Spoiler

Show

There's always someone who has it worse.
Also; bewwy wubs!

You know, when I die, I really truly genuinely hope it's the Discworld Death who comes for me, so I can give him a big hug and tell him I appreciate him.