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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Daftendirekt's Avatar

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    Default Mounted charger?

    So, I tried my hand at making a decent mounted character, but I have a feeling it wouldn't be very good put into practice. I made a Half-Elf Chaladin, took Mark of Handling, and had a Warhorse. Had a Vanguard Glaive for my charging weapon, and then a Withering Longsword and a heavy shield for when I had to dismount. (Level 13, btw. it's what our campaign is at right now, so its what I build all my random builds to)

    What good charging builds do you guys know of? I'm thinking Paladin probably isn't the best class to do it with, despite their utilities giving them a mount and increasing their charging. Or, perhaps, I'm just bad at making paladins.

    Anyway, let's hear it.

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    tcrudisi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    The Barbarian is the original and does it best. Being mounted is a decent option since there are a few mounts that improve your charge capabilities.
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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Cavalier. They don't need the Mounted Combat feat to make their Summoned Steed really frakkin' good. +5 to damage with charges, 8 speed, and the Trample attack is very good. Grab the Extra Trample feat for extra win.

    That's from Dragon 394, I think. You need to sub out the Pace of the Virtuous Charger feature for the Call Summoned Steed power.

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Warlord could also be great, because a mount counts as an ally, and warlords have many good charge powers that gave allies a bonus or extra attacks.

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Banzai View Post
    Cavalier. They don't need the Mounted Combat feat to make their Summoned Steed really frakkin' good. +5 to damage with charges, 8 speed, and the Trample attack is very good. Grab the Extra Trample feat for extra win.

    That's from Dragon 394, I think. You need to sub out the Pace of the Virtuous Charger feature for the Call Summoned Steed power.
    But you don't get the +5 damage to charges without the Mounted Combat feat, at least as I understand it, so you're taking that at level 4 anyway.

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrudisi View Post
    The Barbarian is the original and does it best. Being mounted is a decent option since there are a few mounts that improve your charge capabilities.
    True, barbarians absolutely win at charging (just finished making one in the CB), but I never picture one riding anything to charge. Charging on a horse seems knightly. Barbarians charge because charging means running at somebody as fast as you can so you tear their ****ing head off and then laugh maniacally.

    At least, that's what barbarians are to me.

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annulus View Post
    True, barbarians absolutely win at charging (just finished making one in the CB), but I never picture one riding anything to charge. Charging on a horse seems knightly. Barbarians charge because charging means running at somebody as fast as you can so you tear their ****ing head off and then laugh maniacally.

    At least, that's what barbarians are to me.
    That's because you are imagining a horse as a noble creature. Think of it as an extension of the Barbarian. What else would be friendly to a Barbarian? Even Belkar's animal companion is a cat, which we all know to be the most evil of all animals. Instead of a noble horse, the Barbarian rides an angry, often bucking and kicking at the enemy, horse that seems to get as bloodthirsty and angry as the Barbarian. (And you could just describe all this as flavor without actually having to make attack rolls with it.) The horse is wild and untamed, but still listens to the Barbarian because it's just smart enough to know that it's met someone who is angrier than it is.

    I'm imagining one pissed off horse and it's hilarious to me. It's also perfectly in character for the Barbarian.
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    Daftendirekt's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Okay, yes, pissed off horse that only listens to the barbarian because the barbarian is even MORE pissed off is hilarious.

    I still picture barbarians charging on foot. Shrug, lack of imagination on my part I guess.

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Who is one of the key sources for the stereotypical barbarian? The Mongol Hoard, who were horse nomads who were just as good with with lances as they were with horse archers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nu View Post
    But you don't get the +5 damage to charges without the Mounted Combat feat, at least as I understand it, so you're taking that at level 4 anyway.
    From RAW, the Call Summoned Steed power:

    A celestial warhorse appears in an unoccupied space within range to obey your commands. The steed is an ally to you and your allies, and it serves as a mount to you or one ally you designate. While the steed is serving as a mount, the normal rules for mounted combat apply (see the Rules Compendium).
    Note also that the Mounted Combat rules in the DMG1 specifically state that the Mounted Combat feat must be taken in order to enjoy Mount powers. HOWEVER, the power refers the player to Rules Compendium, where the Mounted Combat section makes no mention of the Mounted Combat feat. Add to that the fact that Mounted Combat appears neither in HotFK or HotFL, and it seems extremely unlikely that the power was designed with the Mounted Combat feat in mind. So I will allow my Cavalier players the full range of Mount abilities because a. it seems debatable and only fair, in my view and b. Cavaliers really aren't that great at damage-dealing anyway, so give 'em the charge damage and trample, what the heck.

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrudisi View Post
    ...
    Also: Mongols.

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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Banzai View Post
    From RAW, the Call Summoned Steed power:

    Note also that the Mounted Combat rules in the DMG1 specifically state that the Mounted Combat feat must be taken in order to enjoy Mount powers. HOWEVER, the power refers the player to Rules Compendium, where the Mounted Combat section makes no mention of the Mounted Combat feat. Add to that the fact that Mounted Combat appears neither in HotFK or HotFL, and it seems extremely unlikely that the power was designed with the Mounted Combat feat in mind. So I will allow my Cavalier players the full range of Mount abilities because a. it seems debatable and only fair, in my view and b. Cavaliers really aren't that great at damage-dealing anyway, so give 'em the charge damage and trample, what the heck.
    I disagree. I double-checked the sources you mentioned and nowhere does it say that you get the Mounted Combat feat for free. Furthermore, it doesn't say that you get access to the mounts special abilities, either. And, finally, note that the power lets you summon the Celestial Warhorse. That warhorse has under traits "Charger (mount)". Mounted Combat is the only thing, anywhere, that says you gain access to any special mount abilities that a mount confers to its rider.

    The normal rules for Mounted Combat do not say anywhere that you get the mounts special abilities. That's the problem here. Now, if you want to house-rule that Cavaliers are not that great at damage and therefore need a dpr boost, that's fine (but weird to me since they aren't supposed to be strikers). But it's just that: a house-rule. There's nothing in print that says that Cavaliers get access to the mounts special abilities without taking the Mounted Combat feat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Who is one of the key sources for the stereotypical barbarian? The Mongol Hoard, who were horse nomads who were just as good with with lances as they were with horse archers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogremindes View Post
    Also: Mongols.
    Touché. I didn't even think about the fact that there could be precedence in history. Good call.
    Last edited by tcrudisi; 2011-04-03 at 06:01 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Banzai View Post
    Note also that the Mounted Combat rules in the DMG1 specifically state that the Mounted Combat feat must be taken in order to enjoy Mount powers. HOWEVER, the power refers the player to Rules Compendium, where the Mounted Combat section makes no mention of the Mounted Combat feat. Add to that the fact that Mounted Combat appears neither in HotFK or HotFL, and it seems extremely unlikely that the power was designed with the Mounted Combat feat in mind. So I will allow my Cavalier players the full range of Mount abilities because a. it seems debatable and only fair, in my view and b. Cavaliers really aren't that great at damage-dealing anyway, so give 'em the charge damage and trample, what the heck.
    Firstly, the celestial steed feature was included in Dragon Magazine, not HotFK, and several new mount-related feats were released alongside it.

    Secondly, those traits specifically include the mount keyword. This keyword serves no other purpose other than for use with the Mounted Combat feat. I argue that, if they weren't designed with the feat in mind, they would not have included that keyword.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mounted charger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nu View Post
    Firstly, the celestial steed feature was included in Dragon Magazine, not HotFK, and several new mount-related feats were released alongside it.

    Secondly, those traits specifically include the mount keyword. This keyword serves no other purpose other than for use with the Mounted Combat feat. I argue that, if they weren't designed with the feat in mind, they would not have included that keyword.
    We shall see.

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