Project Heretica - not just a Paladin retooling

[Cieyrin]

Stunned is not helpless. You can't coup a stunned target.

While you can paralyze at 5th, Clerics and Bards have had Hold Person since 3rd and 4th level, so couping off of paralysis isn't anything new. Yeah, they have to make a save but so does the smite. I don't think Stunning Smite is gonna make the casters green with envy any time soon.

[Eurus]

Stunned is not helpless. You can't coup a stunned target.

While you can paralyze at 5th, Clerics and Bards have had Hold Person since 3rd and 4th level, so couping off of paralysis isn't anything new. Yeah, they have to make a save but so does the smite. I don't think Stunning Smite is gonna make the casters green with envy any time soon.

Well I'll be. I don't know how I got mistaken on that, I could have sworn stunning made the target helpless -- I always thought that was the major perk of stun vs. daze.

The point that I was trying to make is that the save doesn't even matter that much. Even if the target succeeds on their save, they're still disabled. Maybe they tough it out a round, and are fine, but two or three rounds is still almost certainly enough to remove them from the equation.

[Cieyrin]

I always thought that was the major perk of stun vs. daze.

The major perk is they lose Dex, suck an additional -2 against AC and (the thing most people forget) they drop what they're holding. Disarm? Feh, let me knock him one to the head, he'll let go.

The point that I was trying to make is that the save doesn't even matter that much. Even if the target succeeds on their save, they're still disabled. Maybe they tough it out a round, and are fine, but two or three rounds is still almost certainly enough to remove them from the equation.

It's still plenty powerful, yes, but there's plenty of other ways to disable that hits more than one guy (Glitterdust? Slow? Solid Fog? ).

[T.G. Oskar]

Eurus, while you have a point regarding how Stunning Smite is apparently more powerful than the rest, I do have to concede that the rider effect is not much compared to, well, spellcasting.

Consider, for example, the Stunning Fist feat (which is meant to be used by a monk). Technically, Stunning Smite is effectively an attack with extra damage that uses the Paladin's strength to cause smite much as the Stunning Fist uses the Monk's wisdom (since they're probably the few that might get it early on and for free), but it has both an AC component and a save component; the immunity component is ignored (Undead and Constructs shouldn't be affected, yet they do; that's the point). That, and the daze on a successful save which isn't really bad.

Ideally, both Blinding Smite and Stunning Smite work to hinder melee combatants, with Blinding reducing their effectiveness in combat while Stunning temporarily takes them out. If blinding had an effect where you remained blind nonetheless for 1 round, then Blinding would be pretty useful, but as it stands Stunning is king. Resounding should have its utility as an AoE special attack, but it doesn't become AoE proper until 5th level. So, I can understand the concern since there's no reason why NOT to take any other smite unless you want to be a good charger (in which you take Charging Smite) or want to use ranged weapons with your smite (in which you take Ranged Smite alongside Stunning Smite and you smack them from the distance).

For what it's worth, Stunning Smite is very effective on what a tank should do: preventing enemies from reaching the casters. Blinding does as well, but at a lesser degree; as Eurus mentions, at least the character can move. Resounding does roughly the opposite; if the enemy falls prone, then it wastes a move action to stand up, so it effectively loses part of its turn unless it has a way to stand up as a swift action or faster. I *was* thinking about making daze (and eventual stun) a 1-round effect, since you effectively resisted the smite; the idea was basically to stun an enemy at an increased interval based on paladin level, but the "lose" condition would be a much reduced effect (Blinding has a similar conception, but strengthened). Since the base effect can be achieved pretty easily AND it has two limiting factors (it has to hit, and then it has to fail the save for the worse effect), it's not something I'd remove. I DO plan, though, to make Stun based on Fortitude and Blind based on Will in order to play with the weaknesses of the intended creatures (Blind for melee, Stun for casters).

Note: the 2nd Tier of Stunning Smite IS rather deadly, but nothing like Hold Person (the Paladin can paralyze the creature for up to 5 rounds at 20th level), while Hold Person can do it for more rounds AND at a distance, and by level 9 or so the effect applies to just about anyone with a slightly better save, but by that level melee already needs something nice.

Thus, having said this, and based on the playtest data, I figure that Stunning Smite could have a clarification, but still remain as-is. A successful save's effect only lasts for 1 round, while the other lasts for the established rounds. This allows Stunning Smite to be used as a deterrent for enemy movement (the actual intention, akin to Combat Reflexes + Stand Still + reach weapon) but make the successful save a lot more interesting. As well, I might consider shifting Fortitude and Will to make Blinding a much more interesting option for anti-melee deterrent (since blindness also effectively takes the enemy out of combat). In simpler terms:

Blinding: Will save or blinded for 1 round/5 paladin levels (round up), dazzle on successful save
Tier 2: Will save or perma-blinded; blinded for 1 round/5 paladin levels on successful save (comparable to Blindness spell; contrast Fear spell)
Stunning: Fortitude save or stunned for 1 round/5 paladin levels (round up), daze for 1 round on successful save
Tier 2: Fortitude save or paralyzed for 1 round/5 paladin levels (round up); stunned for 1 round on successful save (comparable to Hold Person; contrast Fear spell)

Since the Paladin won't have too many smites and they only affect one creature (unlike, say, Sound Burst which has a chance of affecting creatures on area, or similar spells), it's likely that you'll see it on many encounters but not as a pure lockdown (one that might be successful, though, to handle a strong enemy OR setting up terrain for a stronger attacker to finish the enemy in one hit). As Cieyrin says, it won't make casters green with envy since Grease does more than the smite would from level 1 (on an area and with the Balance check that threatens to slip the enemy and hold its movement), then Web/Glitterdust (which affects much more people). It won't also affect martial adepts, since Warblades will easily pound enemies with Sapphire Nightmare Blade/Mountain Hammer alongside Punishing Stance, Swordsages will probably use Burning Blade and/or Clinging Shadow Strike, Mountain Hammer (as well) and eventually Flashing Sun, Rabid Wolf Strike, Drain Vitality, Emerald Razor and the Assassin's Stance; Crusaders will set up for Thicket of Blades, Foehammer, Mountain Hammer (as well!), Battle Leader's Charge, Tactical Strike... So, if it doesn't affect either martial adepts OR spellcasters (and not even classical warriors, since the Fighter and the Barbarian do rather well with two-handed weapons applying Power Attack while the Paladin does the hard work of piddling the AC), it shouldn't be cause for concern (and daze doesn't reduce the enemy's AC, so...) It DOES introduce, however, an element currently missing on the normal paladin which is the lack of disabling options.

As a final point: any non-evil creature is unaffected, so the Paladin definitely could use a better weapon. It's not like the Paladin is the beat-all-end-all of martial characters now, since being merely Neutral OR Good (animals, for example, cannot be smitten, nor constructs for that regard unless you have a way to decouple the smite from the alignment). So it's rather easy to resist, actually.

[NineThePuma]

Charging Smite is stilled locked into hitting Evil.


Out of curiosity, if I wanted to replace spell casting, which of the Main 3 initiators would you recommend having your Divine Champions emulate (in terms of maneuvers known/readied/stances and refreshing mechanic), and what disciplines (of the core 9) would you recommend each having?

[T.G. Oskar]

Charging Smite is stilled locked into hitting Evil.

Not anymore. Thanks for the constant reminder, tho. It was really a change of about three words or something; it should be fixed now.

Out of curiosity, if I wanted to replace spell casting, which of the Main 3 initiators would you recommend having your Divine Champions emulate (in terms of maneuvers known/readied/stances and refreshing mechanic), and what disciplines (of the core 9) would you recommend each having?

None.

It's very simple; if I were to add martial maneuvers, the retooled Paladin would take the Crusader and make it worthless. I already oppose that idea on the inverse (the Crusader flat replacing the Paladin), so it makes little sense that I support that type of exchange. Specifically on spellcasting, which I place (alongside the smite, the mount, and now the auras) as what differs a Paladin from the Crusader.

Having said that, there's an attempt to add something that added Paladins the flavor of Crusaders through ACFs. It was meant to replace the original, but it shouldn't be so difficult to properly replace. Check under "Complete Martial" and "Alternate Class Features" for the exchanges, which essentially replace the smite AND the mount; in order to make them Project Heretica compatible, the stances replace Standing Before Adversity and the maneuvers replace the smite tiers.

And now, for something completely different...

--

THE KNIGHT HOSPITALLER


Image unknown. Original at the Firefighter and Paramedic Stories blog.

"Pro Fide, Pro Utilitate Hominum" (For the Faithful, and for Service of Men) - Former motto of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta, the real life order of Knights Hospitaller.

Requirements
To qualify to become a knight hospitaller, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any good, any non-chaotic
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Heal 8 ranks
Feats: Self-Sufficient
Special: Must be able to cast one conjuration (healing) divine spell, or use a Devoted Spirit maneuver that restores hit point damage.

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Yes, Self-Sufficient. Any problem with that?

Wh...you mean it sucks? I had the distinctive impression that it was rather awesome, granting a +1 bonus on the skill plus 1 for every five ranks on the skill starting from the first four, so by 16th level you'd have a +5 bonus, PLUS you'd gain a bonus on hit points healed while resting...

Wait, that's Survivalist, not Self-Sufficient. And that's not yet released... Oh well, feats coming soon!

In any case, the requirements are meant to be a bit harsh, but fair. The Knight Hospitaller is essentially a revamped Hospitaler PrC, which means it needs some focus on healing. The ranks are easy to achieve and so does the BAB and special requirement, so it needed something that few people would dare to take as a "balance". Hence, Self-Sufficient. Or Survivalist.

Do note that you can enter just by taking Martial Study, so it's open to other classes than Paladins or Crusaders.

Class Skills
The knight hospitaller’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

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Another small list? What's wrong with you, homebrewer!?

Well, it's also a PrC that has the vanilla Paladin skill list, so no need for Spellcraft or Bluff or anything peculiar.

{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells per Day
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Bonus domain (Healing), lay on hands, martial devotion|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Hospitaller’s touch, spontaneous spellcasting (Healing domain)|-
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Bonus feat, devotion of the spirit, hospitaller’s blessing|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Greater lay on hands, hospitaller’s ward (temporary hit points)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Hospitaller’s resolve (self), lay off afflictions|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Bonus feat, devotion of the spirit, hospitaller’s sacrifice|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability
7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Hospitaller’s ward (deflection bonus to AC)|+1 of existing spellcasting ability
8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Hospitaller’s resolve (close), quickened lay on hands|+1 of existing spellcasting ability
9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Bonus feat, extend the healing|+1 of existing spellcasting ability
10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Empowered lay on hands|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability[/TABLE]

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I'm sure you're all asking what the heck does that odd "-" has to do with the spellcasting progression. 1st level gets spellcasting progression, so it's kinda odd to lack the second.

There's really good reasons for that. Notice that they get access to a domain right at that moment. Specifically, the Healing domain. Since only divine spellcasters would have an advantage related to that, it would be pretty silly to give it to non-spellcasters, no?

Point is, non-spellcasters get a bonus; they can use it a few times per day, so they get some healing. Paladins and Rangers get a massive boost as they can cast those spells with their spell slots and the spells they can't cast as spell-like abilities. So they get a great use out of it. That, combined with the full BAB they get makes divine spellcasters lose one spellcasting level.

Like that will hurt them. Heck, even Favored Souls will get 9th level spells.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the knight hospitaller.
Weapon Proficiency: A knight hospitaller gains proficiency with all martial weapons if it didn’t had already.

Bonus Domain (Healing): A knight hospitaller gains the Healing domain as a bonus domain. He may gain the domain’s granted power benefit and prepare or cast spells from the domain, as usual. See the rules for extra domains in Complete Divine, page 31 for more information. If the knight hospitaller does not cast spells, he may still apply the domain granted power benefit to spells he casts spontaneously (see the spontaneous spellcasting ability, below). If the knight hospitaller uses Devoted Spirit maneuvers, he gains a special application of the domain’s granted power benefit; he may treat his initiator level as one level higher for purposes of Devoted Spirit strikes that restore hit points based on initiator level.

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Oops, forgot to mention they get the domain spell one level earlier. Silly me.

The truth is, of course, that 2nd level is when knights hospitaller (the proper plural, IIRC) get the ability to cast those spells spontaneously. You know, much like what clerics already get. However, while that happens with the first few spells of that level, the latter ones are still rather strong (I mean, the ability to cast Mass Heal spontaneously!?). In order to make a 2 level dip hurtful, that level nixes its spellcasting ability, so they delay their progression in order to gain the ability to spontaneously cast Healing domain spells.

There's little reason why NOT to dunk into the PrC, but YMMV.

Spells per Day: At every level except 2nd, a knight hospitaller gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a knight hospitaller, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

If the knight hospitaller has no levels in a divine spellcasting class, he gains no benefit. If the knight hospitaller’s spellcaster levels are from paladin or ranger, the caster level for those spells is equal to his knight hospitaller class levels plus half their paladin or ranger levels (including 2nd level, unlike other divine spellcasters).

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The last note, as usual, is for vanilla Paladins and Rangers that get "half" spellcasting (half CL, half levels, one-eighth effectiveness). They get a slight bonus in that the class progresses their caster level at a 1:1 ratio. If you're using the Project Heretica PBAJ classes, though, disregard this note.

Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 1st level, a knight hospitaller with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (his own or those of others) by touch. Treat this as the Paladin's class ability, except the effective Paladin level for purposes of this ability is equal to the sum of levels in both this class and the Paladin class.

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This requires a deeper explanation, if you're using it alongside Project Heretica.

If you were using the vanilla Paladin, you basically would get paladin level x Charisma modifier on the pool, and most of the abilities might make sense. The Project Heretica Paladin gets the ability four levels later, but the effect is a rechargeable pool of healing rather than a static pool of healing; thus, some of the abilities might be a tad too powerful (or pointless). Some of the abilities may be off-limits if you use the Project Heretica Paladin (even if only as an option, or explicitly mentioning you use the upgrade to lay on hands), which will be mentioned on spoilers and as an endnote.

As for Justiciar, you'd instead stack your levels in Knight Hospitaller and Justiciar for their Submission ability. And, now that I noticed something...

By the way: the Dragon Shaman, the Retooled Healer and the Monk (both kosher and Retooled) have similar abilities. The lay on hands benefit of stacking class levels applies to them as well (thus, a Dragon Shaman and a Healer retain their Touch of Vitality and Healing Hands benefits), and the monk gets to heal by touch (using their Wholeness of Body class ability) alongside the specific benefit (but using Wisdom instead of Charisma).

Martial Devotion: Levels in knight hospitaller stack with levels in any one martial adept class to determine his initiator level. To gain the benefit of this ability, the knight hospitaller must know at least one Devoted Spirit maneuver (by means of the crusader class, or through the Martial Study feat) as well as having levels in one martial adept class. You may only progress initiator level or spellcasting, but not both.

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Thought I'd make it that easy, no?

Since the idea is that Crusaders could become Knights Hospitaller much like Clerics or Paladins (roughly the same idea with the Defender of Sealtiel), Crusaders get a slight nifty bonus, but no actual progression. Thus, you can use Martial Study to gain new powers as if you had levels in Crusader or Warblade or Swordsage, but not gain spellcasting as well. And, since Crusader has a few maneuvers that depend on initiator level (the healing strike maneuvers, Leading the Charge, Tactics of the Wolf), they get some serious benefit to it.

Hospitaller’s Touch (Su): At 2nd level, a knight hospitaller may use his lay on hands ability to heal from a distance. He may use his lay on hands ability at a range of up to 30 ft.; in the case of using lay on hands to attack undead creatures, he must make a ranged touch attack in order to affect the creature.

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This is a rather nice benefit towards those whom use Lay on Hands; they can use it on range now. Permanently. Even on enemies. Note this also applies to Submission if you have it, so that's a very nice gift; even if only within 30 ft., that means you can deliver some serious healing while standing at a proper distance.

Spontaneous Spellcasting (Healing) (Sp): The task of a knight hospitaller is that of a healer, even though it wears heavy armor and wields weapons of war. A knight hospitaller has the gift of healing by touch, but there are times where he must unleash a burst of healing at a moment’s notice. The investiture as a knight hospitaller grants him the ability to cast spells from the Healing domain as if they were spells on his own list, but even those devoid of spellcasting ability are granted the use of abilities that resemble these spells.

At 2nd level, a knight hospitaller may “lose” any prepared spell (or may expend a spell slot) and cast a spell from the Healing domain of the same level or lower. If the knight hospitaller already had an ability to spontaneously cast cure spells (such as that from a cleric), he replaces the ability with this one instead.

If the knight hospitaller does not know how to cast divine spells, he may instead use each of the spells granted by the Healing domain once per day as spell-like abilities. He does not immediately gain access to all the spells: instead, the maximum spell level he has access to at any moment is equal to half his character level (rounded down), plus 1. Thus, a 5th level crusader/2nd level knight hospitaller (and thus, a 7th level character) may use cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds and cure critical wounds once per day. The caster level for these spell-like abilities is equal to half his character level, even if the caster level wouldn’t normally allow the knight hospitaller to cast the spell (thus, the same 5th level crusader/2nd level knight hospitaller would have a caster level for all of his acquired spell-like abilities of 3rd, and he may use his CL 3rd to cast cure serious wounds and cure critical wounds even if normally he wouldn’t be allowed, healing 3d8/4d8 + 3 points of damage).

In the case of paladins and rangers whom become knights hospitaller, they may spontaneously cast spells from the Healing domain by using their own prepared spells, but they are also treated as if they didn’t have divine spellcasting ability for the purpose of determining which spells from the Healing domain they may use as spell-like abilities; however, the caster level for said spells is equal to their own caster level. At the moment they gain access to a new spell level, they lose the spell-like ability they had acquired for that specific spell level but they gain the benefit of spontaneous spellcasting, as usual. For example, a 5th level paladin/8th level knight hospitaller may cast up to 3rd level paladin spells. He may “lose” a 1st, 2nd or 3rd level spell slot and cast either cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds or cure serious wounds in their stead, and he may cast cure critical wounds, mass cure light wounds, heal and regenerate once per day, with a caster level for those spells of 12th (even if that would normally impede casting the heal or regenerate spells). If he then gains two more levels of knight hospitaller and becomes a 5th level paladin/10th level knight hospitaller, he becomes capable of casting 4th level spells (if he has enough Wisdom to cast a 4th level spell); thus, he loses the ability to cast cure critical wounds as a spell-like ability, but he may spontaneously cast the spell using his own spell slots, and he also gains the ability to cast mass cure critical wounds once per day. This allows rangers to cast cure spells one level earlier than they normally would.

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Rather complex, no? It should be easy.

If you're a Cleric, Archivist, Favored Soul, Spirit Shaman, Druid or (if using the Dragonlance Campaign Setting) Mystic, you get the ability to spontaneously cast spells from the Healing domain. Period.

If you're not a divine spellcaster (a Fighter or Duskblade with Martial Study, or a Crusader), you can cast these spells once per day as spell-like abilities with a caster level equal to half your character level. Simple again, no?

The complexity comes with Paladins and Rangers (you do notice I like to throw them several bones here and there, right?). This applies to the Project Heretica Paladin, the Justiciar, and the Retooled Ranger. By the time you get this ability they're probably casting 1st level spells, so they get the ability to spontaneously expend one of their spell slots and cast Cure Light Wounds based on their caster level. However, until level 8, they can cast Cure Moderate, Cure Serious, Cure Critical and others as spell-like abilities. Come 8th level, they get the ability to cast Cure Moderate Wounds spontaneously, so they no longer get their free 1/day SLA; however, they keep Cure Serious and Cure Critical as SLAs. Come 11th level and 14th level, same thing happens with Cure Serious and Cure Critical. However, they permanently get the ability to cast Mass Cure Light Wounds, Heal, Regenerate, Mass Cure Critical Wounds and Mass Heal as spell-like abilities using their own CL. So, in the end, they get a blend of both. Easier now to the eyes?

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, and every three levels after that, a knight hospitaller gains a bonus feat in addition to those he obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats or the following feats: Augment Healing, Domain Focus (Complete Divine); Healing Devotion, Imbued Healing, Touch of Healing (Complete Champion); Azure Touch (Magic of Incarnum). A knight hospitaller must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a knight hospitaller is considered to have a fighter level equal to his class level (-2 if his remaining levels are in the Fighter class).

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Get used to this. Bonus feats are the meat of any martial character, and there's little reason why not to provide them to a purely martial-inclined character. Unlike the pious templar (of which I blatantly stole the explanation), they only get Fighter bonus feats or Healing Devotion, nothing else. That's because not all entry points have access to turn undead, AND they don't get the flexibility of domains. They get access to a much smaller list, though.

That last sentence does require some explanation, though. Most of my class retoolings have the notion that they count their class levels as (x-y) Fighter levels for purposes of qualifying for feats, where x is equal to the class levels and y is a number between 1 and 4. Fighters, naturally, get full levels; Warblades gets class levels -2, and PBAJ Divine Champions get class level -4. Stacking another penalty on top of that would be pretty unfair, so the effective Fighter level of the character would be equal to all class levels which grant such benefit, minus the highest amongst the penalties. Thus, a Fighter 2/Warblade x/Paladin 4/Knight Hospitaller 3 would have an effective Fighter level of 5+x, since the highest penalty amongst all would be that of the Paladin. A Fighter 6/Knight Hospitaller 3 would have an effective Fighter level of 7, on the other hand. A Warblade 6/Knight Hospitaller 3 would also have an effective Fighter level of 7, since both penalties are of equal level.

Why I insist so much on effective Fighter levels? It relates to more than just Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, mind you. MUCH more than that.

Devotion of the Spirit (Ex): At 3rd level, a knight hospitaller that practices the Devoted Spirit martial discipline finds himself rewarded. He gains an additional known maneuver from the Devoted Spirit discipline. At 6th level and again at 9th level, he gains one extra known maneuver from the Devoted Spirit discipline.

At 6th level, his devotion is rewarded one step deeper. He may learn one new stance from the Devoted Spirit discipline, and he may ready one extra maneuver per day.

To gain the benefit of devotion of the spirit, the knight hospitaller must belong to one martial adept class (crusader, warblade or swordsage) and know at least one Devoted Spirit maneuver (either by means of class-based maneuvers known, or by means of the Martial Study feat). A knight hospitaller may only advance martial maneuvers or spellcasting, but not both.

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Decided to throw a bone to Crusaders in here. Devoted Spirit is a very nice discipline, and it fits the healing conception very well, so a Crusader gets a very reduced form of martial maneuver progression this way. So I skipped this one as well. But this is quite definitely the last bone (on this PrC)...or maybe not. That's two bones for them already. The rest of the maneuvers, though, have to be taken through Martial Study or Martial Stance.

Hospitaller’s Blessing (Su): At 3rd level, a knight hospitaller increments the potency of any of the healing spells (or maneuvers) he knows. By uttering the right words, pressing on the right points, or even by showing further devotion, he may heal more hit points than he usually can.

When the knight hospitaller casts a spell from the healing subschool of the conjuration school that restores hit points, he may add 1 + his class level, plus 1 point for every five ranks of the Heal skill above 4, to the amount of hit point damage he heals with the spell. Thus, a 5th level paladin/3rd level knight hospitaller with 12 ranks in Heal may add 5 points to the amount of damage he may heal when casting a cure light wounds spell (4 for his three class levels plus the added point, plus 1 for having at least 9 ranks in Heal). This bonus does not apply to other abilities such as lay on hands, but it applies to spontaneous spells from the Healing domain, spell-like abilities from the conjuration (healing) school, and Devoted Spirit strike maneuvers that heal hit point damage (such as crusader’s strike).

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Healing, ahoy!

Since this PrC is heavily healing-inclined, it makes sense to provide a small bonus to healing spells much like Project Heretica Paladins do with the Vigor aura. This is based both on their class level AND in Heal ranks, so that those ranks aren't lost. Thus, they get a decent bonus that easily reaches an extra 15 points of healing with each use, which is excellent. This also applies to other abilities, including the Devoted Spirit maneuvers, so you can heal quite a lot with them. Strike of Righteous Vitality will be a slight powerhouse with this, and even the lowly Crusader's Strike will be worthwhile on those with Martial Study. Of course, the Cleric gets even more benefits if they decide to go pure healers.

Greater Lay on Hands (Su): At 4th level, the knight hospitaller is gifted with even greater healing potential. He may heal a larger amount of wounds when laying his hands upon people. The knight hospitaller now adds twice his class level (or two times the sum of his knight hospitaller class levels plus levels in a class that grants lay on hands or a similar ability) times his Charisma modifier when determining the amount of hit points he may heal by using lay on hands (effectively doubling the amount of healing he may provide).

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This is one point where the benefit of Lay on Hands from the vanilla Paladin and that of the Project Heretica Paladin differ.

A Paladin 5/Knight Hospitaller 4 with Charisma 20 may heal somewhere along the lines of 90 hit points on a single use. A Project Heretica Paladin 5/Knight Hospitaller 4 will instead heal up to 135 hp. Both are two levels below Heal, but the Project Heretica Paladin will outclass the Heal spell even before it can be cast, if only because of the further benefits to it.

Thus, instead of doubling your class level bonus, those Project Heretica Paladins and Justiciars instead get 10 + their sum of Paladin/Justiciar and Knight Hospitaller class levels, times their Charisma modifier. That's about 5 extra points per Charisma modifier, which is still strong, but not to the degree of doubling class level.

Hospitaller’s Ward (Ex or Su): A knight hospitaller tends to the weary and the wounded, but it is also his oath to protect these people from harm. Since one of the best ways to prevent a terrible wound is to act before it happens, the knight hospitaller may transform part of his healing powers into a protective ability.

At 4th level, a knight hospitaller may either “lose” a prepared spell slot with a conjuration (healing) spell that heals hit point damage or expend a spell slot of a level in which he knows at least one conjuration (healing) spell that heals hit point damage to gain the benefit of hospitaller’s ward. As well, a knight hospitaller may sacrifice a daily use of his Healing domain spell-like abilities, exchange a Healing domain spell slot, or expend a Devoted Spirit maneuver that allows hit point recovery to gain the same benefit (as if you had initiated the strike maneuver). Treat the spell (or maneuver) as usual: the effect has the same area, any dice is rolled as usual, the benefit of hospitaller’s blessing applies as usual, except for two things: first, the spell (or maneuver) only affects allies in the case of an area spell, and second, all the recipients of the spell or effect gain temporary hit points equal to half the amount of hit point damage the spell or effect would have healed (thus, a knight hospitaller expending a heal spell as a 15th level caster would instead provide 75 temporary hit points). These temporary hit points last for a number of minutes equal to the knight hospitaller’s caster level (or initiator level), or the knight hospitaller’s class level plus his Charisma modifier, whichever is higher.

At 7th level, a knight hospitaller may sacrifice any of the spells (or maneuvers) mentioned above, but instead of providing temporary hit points, he may instead provide a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to his Charisma modifier to the target (or targets) of the effect. The bonus to AC lasts only for a number of rounds equal to twice the level of the spell (or maneuver) used.

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In layman terms: you can expend a Cure Light Wounds spell and provide half the benefit as temporary hit points, or expend a Crusader's Strike and provide half the healing as temporary hit points alongside the damage dealt to the enemy. At 7th level, you instead provide a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier if you wish. This expands the options of spells such as Mass Cure Light Wounds or maneuvers such as Rallying Strike (if you manage to catch it) into buffing abilities. It's terrible when all your healing efforts go to waste, so this is an excellent way to shield them from harm after your healing has been dispensed.

Hospitaller’s Resolve (Su): At 5th level, a knight hospitaller learns to heal his own wounds, or even to dispense healing, at the very moment he attacks an enemy. He may draw from his pool of healing to restore wounds, as if he were laying his hands on the individual (or on himself), but he does it at a moment’s notice.

As an immediate action as part of a successful melee attack, a knight hospitaller may expend part of his pool of lay on hands on himself. He may expend as much of the pool of lay on hands as he needs, up to his full normal hit point amount. The knight hospitaller may not use his lay on hands ability during the turn in which he activates hospitaller’s resolve (for example, if he activates the ability as part of an attack of opportunity), nor he may use hospitaller’s resolve if he already used lay on hands on the last turn.

At 8th level, the knight hospitaller may instead heal an ally within 30 feet of himself, as if he were using lay on hands on the person. The same restrictions of the ability apply; the knight hospitaller merely extends his healing to an ally instead of healing himself. If the knight hospitaller uses a Devoted Spirit strike maneuver that heals hit point damage (such as crusader’s strike), he may add points from his lay on hands pool to the amount of hit point healed by the maneuver, but only for one ally; thus, he may choose to apply the hospitaller’s resolve bonus when using rallying strike, but he may only apply the benefit to one ally; the rest are healed by the normal amount of hit points the maneuver usually heals.

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Oh look, you can now get the effect of the Devoted Spirit healing maneuvers while using your pool of Lay on Hands! Thus, you may no longer need to use your lay on hands by expending a standard action, but rather as part of another action. Crusaders still get the benefit they once got with the healing maneuvers, but this somewhat equals the ground between them and other such classes.

Now, why immediate instead of swift action? Well, immediate means one thing; it can be activated outside your turn, but otherwise it's like a swift action. Now, assume you built a lockdown Crusader and used your feats for Combat Reflexes and Karmic Strike and Stand Still. You use an Attack of Opportunity, but you need to heal someone in case they get to move again. Well, what better idea than to expend part of your healing pool to heal that ally (at least, when you get to 8th level) and stop the enemy dead on its tracks? That means you can effectively heal as an immediate action if you manage to land an attack of opportunity, which definitely prevents an enemy from taking a valuable ally. That's action economy at its best, and takes pretty much any lockdown build up one tier (with a Battle Cleric taking the cake on this).

Lay Off Afflictions (Su): A knight hospitaller doesn’t just heal wounds. His oath towards healing the wounded and soothing the weary extends to other kinds of afflictions. The fatigue of pilgrimage, the corruption stemming from a disease, or the affliction of poison can be healed by the touch of a knight hospitaller.

Beginning at 5th level, the knight hospitaller can choose to spend some of the healing bestowed by lay on hands to remove other harmful conditions affecting the target. To remove each ability, a healer must have a minimum requisite amount of ranks in the Heal skill. This ability only applies to actual uses of lay on hands (or a similar ability that affects allies, but not those that affect only the user), not expenditure of lay on hands healing by means of the hospitaller’s resolve class ability (see above).
5 points: ability damage (10 ranks), daze (8 ranks), fatigue (10 ranks), sicken (10 ranks), slow (10 ranks)
10 points: ability drain (14 ranks), exhaustion (14 ranks), nausea (14 ranks), paralysis (10 ranks), poison (14 ranks), stun (10 ranks)
20 points: blind (12 ranks), deaf (12 ranks), disease (12 ranks), energy drain (14 ranks), petrify (18 ranks)

A knight hospitaller can remove a condition (or more than one condition) and heal damage with the same touch, so as long as he expends the required number of points.

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Oh yeah...they also get to heal afflictions. Hooray; now you can be a full healer just by using your lay on hands! Just...not as an immediate action. That would be broken beyond belief.

In any case, you'll notice you need a minimum set of ranks in Heal in order to heal a condition. This is because Heal is definitely underused, when it should have been a very useful skill. I have some love for the underdogs, and in this case Heal is a definite underdog, so it gets some more love...by forcing the knight hospitaller to spend at least ONE skill point on it (and it has at least 1 if your Int is extremely low, but generally between 3-5) on that skill. Which can be quite useful, actually, as a heal between rests.

You'll also notice this is rather similar to the Dragon Shaman and the Retooled Healer's class abilities. This is intentional; this allows both classes to retain some of their power when using their Touch of Vitality or Healing Hands class abilities while getting a plethora of others. In fact, this is exactly the same as the Healing Hands class ability, but expanded to other classes such as Clerics and Paladins.

Hospitaller’s Sacrifice (Su): The life of a knight hospitaller is less than the life of someone wounded or afflicted. When the power to heal the wounds of others and soothe their ailments wanes, the knight hospitaller freely gives of his own life to provide healing.

At 6th level, a knight hospitaller may burn two points of his Constitution as a swift action to recover his pool of lay on hands by an amount equal to his character level. This loss of Constitution is considered ability burn (see Expanded Psionics Handbook) and thus may not be healed magically, psionically, supernaturally, or avoided by any means: it only returns through natural healing. The knight hospitaller may expend as many points of Constitution as he deems fit, but he must always expend two points to add his character level to the lay on hands pool (thus, he may burn four points of Constitution to add twice his character level to the lay on hands pool). A knight hospitaller may not have more points in his pool of lay of hands than his maximum amount restored by means of this ability; the rest of the points must be used immediately (either on himself, or on an ally).

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THIS is essentially the ability that conflicts with the Project Heretica Paladin's Lay on Hands.

The original intention was that this would recover the pool once wasted, since while you'd get a lot of new things, you'd get a very short pool. Ability Burn is really brutal, and burning your ability score (and thus hit points and reducing your Fort save) could be quite dangerous. However, the Project Heretica Paladin has none of these issues, so they don't need to use it. Thus, this class feature applies ONLY if you're not using the Project Heretica Paladin until further notice, because it's essentially redundant.

Quickened Lay on Hands (Su): At 8th level, a knight hospitaller may use his lay on hands ability as a swift action instead of a standard action. As usual, he may not use his quickened lay on hands ability if he had already used his hospitaller’s resolve special ability.

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A bit late, but in case you still insist on using Lay on Hands via touch (or you don't want to wait for an attack of opportunity to happen), you can use it as a swift action. This means you can heal pretty much whenever you want, which means your healing will expend faster.

Extend the Healing (Su): At 9th level, the knight hospitaller has enough power that he may sacrifice other powers rather than his life to recharge his healing abilities. He may expend a prepared spell or spell slot as a swift action to recover his pool of lay on hands by an amount equal to the spell’s level times his caster level or the maximum amount of healing that the spell would have healed (but the hospitaller’s blessing ability does not apply), whichever is higher; thus, a cure light wounds spell would restore either 13 points (if the character’s caster level is lower than 13) or his caster level, a cure serious wounds spell would restore either 26 points or two times his caster level, and a heal spell may restore either 150 points or six times his caster level. A knight hospitaller may sacrifice his daily uses of his Healing domain spell-like abilities (if he has them) to recharge his lay on hands pool, as well.

In the case of knights hospitaller that can use Devoted Spirit maneuvers, they may not use their maneuvers to recharge their lay on hands healing pool, but if they have a stance that restores hit points (such as Martial Stance or Aura of Triumph), they may apply the bonus towards recharging their lay on hands pool instead.

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Again, this conflicts with the Project Heretica Paladin, so it's nixed until further notice if using that method of lay on hands. But if you're using the vanilla method, then by all means go ahead. Monks may or may not apply this benefit (depending on whether they're retooled or not) and Healers have the same situation (whether using the retooled version or not), but Dragon Shamans have carte blanche on using it if only because their version of "lay on hands" isn't like that of the Project Heretica Paladin (unless you choose to replace it, in which case you don't apply this either).

However, unlike Hospitaller's Sacrifice, this allows you to shift your spell-based healing (or stance-based healing) into points you can recharge into your pool, then turn them into the equivalent of a Strike of Righteous Vitality as an immediate action. Thus, it has a lot of tactical utility if you think of it.

Empowered Lay on Hands (Su): At 10th level, a knight hospitaller heals 3 hit points of damage per every 2 points he expends from his daily healing pool. This only applies to the amount of hit points restored by the ability, not to the amount of points that may be expended to heal status effects (see lay off afflictions, above). This ability only applies to actual uses of lay on hands (or a similar ability that affects allies), not expenditure of lay on hands healing by means of the hospitaller’s resolve class ability (see above).

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The capstone is quite useful in reducing the amount of lay on hands you have to expend in order to heal someone. A paladin 5/knight hospitaller 10 with Charisma 24 using this ability will heal either a total of 315 (if using the vanilla Paladin's lay on hands) or 262 (if using the Project Heretica Paladin's lay on hands), which is above and beyond what you can get via a Heal spell, with its caveats.

However, due to how the Project Heretica Paladin works, there's a chance the capstone ability may get nixed. Healing up to 262 points of damage (or more if using the aura of vigor, and that depends on the level AND the Charisma modifier) every encounter can be pretty potent, even if the Cleric can turn all his spells into Mass Heals. While some of the abilities get nixed by means of redundancy or altered because of sheer power, this ability is borderline because the non-recharging alternative is already much more powerful (since you can turn a Heal spell into an empowered, quickened Heal spell without the condition healing through Extend the Healing). So, this one is allowed for Project Heretica Paladins until further notice.

--

As usual: comments? Questions? Healing sucks; why bother? This is too powerful because it fixes healing?

As I mentioned, the abilities Greater Lay on Hands, Hospitaller's Sacrifice and Extend the Healing are either altered or off-limits if using the Project Heretica variants, because of the sheer power of their Lay on Hands. Commentary can begin around here.

[NineThePuma]

Thanks for the constant reminder, tho.

Sorry, it was something I was reading through and saw was kinda half-way fixed, and while I could easily make the leap of logic that said "bad editing, here's what it said" I know that you like to have things work, so I thought I'd remind you. Sorry if I come off as sorta dickish with pointing it out.

(And I'm only apologizing for what may be complete and utter sincerity because there's the possibility of it being sarcasm, and I respect you too much to not apologize.)

None.

It's very simple; if I were to add martial maneuvers, the retooled Paladin would take the Crusader and make it worthless. I already oppose that idea on the inverse (the Crusader flat replacing the Paladin), so it makes little sense that I support that type of exchange. Specifically on spellcasting, which I place (alongside the smite, the mount, and now the auras) as what differs a Paladin from the Crusader.

Having said that, there's an attempt to add something that added Paladins the flavor of Crusaders through ACFs. It was meant to replace the original, but it shouldn't be so difficult to properly replace. Check under "Complete Martial" and "Alternate Class Features" for the exchanges, which essentially replace the smite AND the mount; in order to make them Project Heretica compatible, the stances replace Standing Before Adversity and the maneuvers replace the smite tiers.

No offense, but I'm going to disagree with you there. Mechanics don't matter, it's how you fluff it.

While the Heretica Classes are amazing, to me casting (as it currently exists in the vancian form) should be taken into a dark alley way and shot. I don't want to have a massive argument with you over it (see again: massive respect) but if I play a class and there's casting, I tend to trade my casting away. It's purely a preference thing, and your classes are powerful enough that I could probably just drop casting straight out, but I like to know what you think is appropriate.

[T.G. Oskar]

Sorry, it was something I was reading through and saw was kinda half-way fixed, and while I could easily make the leap of logic that said "bad editing, here's what it said" I know that you like to have things work, so I thought I'd remind you. Sorry if I come off as sorta dickish with pointing it out.

Meh. No worries. I mean, I got several things I've pretty much shelved and haven't taken the same attention as this. It's just that Project Heretica is basically the largest homebrewing project of mine thus far, so I've treated it fairer than the rest. I mean, I still have a fluff-based project based on deities which is largely incomplete, which I intend to finish. That, and the "Complete Martial" set of stuff for martial adepts, of which I've made a new PrC. That, and between looking for a job, DMing twice a week and playtesting on at least one of them, and other stuff, you can expect me to forget about it.

(And I'm only apologizing for what may be complete and utter sincerity because there's the possibility of it being sarcasm, and I respect you too much to not apologize.)

Sarcasm translates badly on the Internet, but that gives me some ideas. Still, I wouldn't be sarcastic regarding one of my projects...

No offense, but I'm going to disagree with you there. Mechanics don't matter, it's how you fluff it.

While the Heretica Classes are amazing, to me casting (as it currently exists in the vancian form) should be taken into a dark alley way and shot. I don't want to have a massive argument with you over it (see again: massive respect) but if I play a class and there's casting, I tend to trade my casting away. It's purely a preference thing, and your classes are powerful enough that I could probably just drop casting straight out, but I like to know what you think is appropriate.

The thing is that, as I mentioned, there's the problem with incompatibility.

Consider the following steps:

• First, I plan to make a Paladin rewrite based on all the nice stuff that they're meant to get, but nixing spellcasting entirely. To do so, I either go with Incarnum, Psionics or Martial Maneuvers. Assume, for purposes of discussion, that I go with maneuvers.
• Then, I make this fix based on having the smites, the martial maneuvers, the auras and maybe the mount or a reasonable facsimile. However, I need to make something the key of the class. Let's assume, thus, that I choose martial maneuvers.
• With this assumption, I need to make the following question: how to make the Paladin unique enough to prevent making the Crusader, a class meant to co-exist with the Paladin, obsolete? Adding too little maneuvers or limited disciplines won't really cut it, and adding exactly the same amount of maneuvers as the Crusader makes the latter obsolete because the auras more than overcome Furious Counterstrike/Steely Resolve. Furthermore, maneuvers are diverse enough so as to make smites obsolete.

The two natural solutions would be as follows:
One, that I effectively make a superior Crusader, and the Crusader class makes no sense as you have everything that the class wanted and more, except for the limitations (and even then, you have the Blackguard, Justiciar and Anarch to solve that). Thus, there's no reason to play a Crusader if you're gonna have a class that is by all means superior, even if alignment-locked.

Two, that you need to balance the Paladin vis-a-vis the Crusader, and that's basically returning to the current concept; no need to homebrew a solution to the Paladin, since the Crusader does all that the Paladin wants and more.

In order to make a solution that remains viable against the four classes that could replace a Paladin (Cleric, Crusader, Soulborn, Divine Mind), the Paladin has to have something that makes it contrast. Going with martial maneuvers threads too much on the Crusader's path, going with Incarnum makes the Soulborn pointless and threading on psionics makes Divine Mind obsolete. Threading on divine magic, however, won't ever make the Cleric obsolete since the Cleric has full spellcasting; of course, this still presents the problem of whether the Paladin has any reason to be played if the Cleric is still present, but that's a problem that's specific to how the Cleric was built, rather than how the Paladin was built. In this case, to make the Paladin viable with spellcasting similar to that of a Cleric, you'd need to boost Paladin spellcasting (which I find a solution that then infringes on the mechanical concept of the Bard even if there's a precedent within Psychic Warrior and even Divine Mind) or nerf Cleric (and that's something that can be done through houseruling rather than homebrewing). The three things that make a Cleric better than a Paladin at everything (Divine Power, heavy armor and shield proficiency, better spellcasting) can be tackled in such a way that Cleric keeps full spellcasting yet the Paladin has a niche in which it can deliver several builds in which the Cleric will have troubles. Two out of the three can be dealt with houserules (light armor or no armor and no heavy shield proficiency for the second; keeping Divine Power and Righteous Might within the War domain for the first), while the third is something that can be dealt with but not to the extent that Cleric becomes pointless to play with.

Trying the same with the Crusader, however, makes one completely incompatible with the other. The core Paladin and the Crusader are meant to coexist, but the only thing the Paladin has that the Crusader lacks is the special mount (and the ACFs that replace it), locked alignment, and its spellcasting. A dip in Cleric and then Ruby Knight Vindicator is basically the final stake on the Paladin as a proper 20-level class, unless you wish to go ubercharger which is the only build that exists properly with Paladin 20 (and even then, Cavalier makes it even more dangerous). The concept of Project Heretica was to make a class that could exist in its own terms against all four of the classes that could replace the Paladin; hence, why the Project Heretica Paladin won't have ACFs related to martial maneuvers, psionics or incarnum (though that doesn't mean Divine Mind can't be retooled, and Soulborn already has been retooled even if it hasn't been released just yet). The aim is that all four Project Heretica classes are comparable in strength and worthiness to a Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator build, though that build hardly can be surpassed (otherwise I'd need something to enable exploiting action economy). The classes hardly get 9th level spells and about 10 maneuvers, 3 stances and 7 readied maneuvers (with a Cleric 9/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 build), but with the auras, the improved smites, the difficulty to kill and whatnot they are comparable in those areas and could hold their niche quite well.

Of course, you can discuss how the purpose of the project still can't be reached (a core Cleric 20 can outmatch all four classes), but I'd like to think I reached a point where the classes are useful enough. I still don't know how the Divine Champion chassis rates on the tiers, but I'd be fine with high Tier 3/low Tier 2 (Tier 1 would be something I'd consider nerfing) or even mere Tier 3. I'd be worried if they end up still Tier 4 since I consider they can do quite a lot with their actions and they can be built for a reasonable amount of situations with their spellcasting.

Largely, and to make my rant shorter: the only reason I don't support martial maneuvers on the Project Heretica classes is because that's tantamount to placing the Crusader on the same conundrum as the Paladin currently is. I could tackle the Divine Mind (though I have no method on how to deal with it, though the auras do exist) and the Soulborn is already tackled with, and both would use the Divine Champion chassis which is the core of Project Heretica (the chassis system itself). Certainly, you could in your table use the Project Heretica Paladin with the Crusader maneuver progression and I couldn't say anything because that's your table (and hence your rules), but do consider that the Crusader's existence would be pretty pointless, and the last thing I want is go too far so as to get the Crusader on the same situation as the Paladin is. You could use a spell point system with the Project Heretica Paladin (which already exists on Dungeons & Dragons Online) or use a non-Vancian spellcasting system, and that would make the Paladin all the more different, but I don't envision the Paladin per se without spellcasting. That's essentially what made me retool the Paladin on first instance, after all; to make the Paladin more useful but keeping the stuff that worked, and in my opinion I couldn't envision a Paladin without spellcasting.

Hopefully that answers your question.

[NineThePuma]

You have addressed my concerns better than I thought possible.


Now to go figure out how to integrate a Mana system or something.

[T.G. Oskar]

Once more: playtest results!

This last session dealt with yet another strong creature; first it was a pair of black bears, this time it was a pair of elephants. I made it so that they were "mastodons" (though I could have used mammoths, although both mammoths and mastodons not only have stats, but are far more powerful than the norm for the group), and they were quite a menace. The paladin did as usual: get part of the damage for the Fighter while the latter...really did nothing.

This was pretty funny. You see, I was trying to convince the Bard player to defuse a battle situation against unfriendly Talenta barbarians mounted on fastieths. The barbarians were asking for food and money ("tribute"), and the bard made a respectable DC 23, which I allowed to boost to 25 when he offered a slight bribe of a few platinum pieces and the promise they would get more food. So the barbarians (four in total) went with three fourths of the group (the warmage decided to remain, since she was pretty tired).

The "mastodons" were pretty vicious, but oddly enough the barbarians went first. So they did what they needed to do, and that was...well, charging. Being 5th level barbarians (used the stats for existing 2nd level barbarians from the module Whispers of the Vampire's Blade but with three levels and having Ride-by Attack as their secondary feature, as well as increased stats and BAB), they weren't much of a challenge...or so I thought.

First, a few sets of changes were done to charge, in which the bonus to attack rolls on a charge also applied to damage rolls if you had at least one level of Fighter or an effective Fighter level (Paladins have an effective Fighter level equal to their class level -4, Barbarians equal to their class level -3), so the barbarians gained a +2 to attack and damage rolls. Second, they used their rage, so that was a +4 to Strength and Constitution, so +2 to attack rolls and damage rolls. Third, they were charging, and that means their bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls doubles because they're using the momentum from the horse, not themselves (and they were going at 100 ft per round on fastieths, so why not?). And finally, they used lances, which doubled all damage.

So, in average, they did a VERY solid amount of damage. The lowest they could do on a charge was 16 points of damage or something along those lines. Elephants have over 101 hp, and they were striking them twice. The group was amazed when I started mentioning "elephant 1 takes about 30 points of damage, the other takes 37".

Then, the mastodons decide to trample the paladin and the fighter. Overrun is a bit different, in that it can be used as a move-equivalent action or as part of a charge, cannot be evaded, and a failed opposed roll (BAB + Strength modifier) turned the opponent prone. Imagine that on a HUGE character, with the charge bonus, and with a trample dealing 2d8 + 15 points of damage. With a 42 on the opposed Strength check, not even the half-giant could compare; they both fell prone, and ate quite a bit of damage. Both elephants ran one character each, so the damage was halved; if I had used the normal attack, the paladin would have been squished like nothing.

Since the paladin was at a position where two attacks of opportunity could end his life (average HP FTL), he decided to pull off a fast one by intimidating the elephant. It was pretty simple; a hearty shout to demoralize the elephant (since they CAN be intimidated). Even with a -8 penalty to the roll, the intimidate WORKED, mostly because taking the Paladin into the lower half of his hit points caused his Standing Before Adversity class feature to turn on, so that gave him a +2 on all Intimidate checks. The half-giant Fighter, not willing to eat an attack roll, decided to follow suit. Meanwhile, the Bard (transformed into an Avariel to gain flight) began to sing...affecting even the barbarians.

So add a +3 to damage, and another charge against the "mastodons"...and they were right at 1/4th of their HP. An attempt to run away caused the barbarians to get yet another attack (this time of opportunity), but even with the lack of doubling they took enough damage to be struck in three blows (each, so it was six blows altogether). So...basically, four 5th level Small barbarians in Medium dinosaurs took down two "mastodons" like nothing, while the wall of meat and the half-giant with the big sheet of metal did absolutely nothing except take damage. The paladin stole 4 points of damage from the Fighter, so...

The second battle was against a pair of Dragonnes (fought at separate instances, with at least one round of difference). This time, the warmage was there, and the creatures went for the biggest guy around (not the one with the carapace or the mage; the one with the large sheet of metal) and pounced on him after making their roar (which I assumed, given that there was no indication regarding that, was a free action to activate). The combination of Shieldmate and the divine aura was magnificent, taking 4 points of damage each time and adding the +4 to AC (and +2 to Reflex saves). Still, the paladin was unfortunately lacking damage, with the warmage dealing much, much more.

So, what did we learned today?

• The Paladin NEEDS some extra form of damage, be it Power Attack and some solid Strength or a magic weapon that deals more than 1d8 points of damage or a high crit weapon.
• Some initiative would be nice. Going last doesn't allow you to cast spells before letting the enemy get on, so...
• Without facing evil creatures, the Paladin isn't any better than any other class if unoptimized. I mean, the only useful feat thus far has been the retooled version of Shieldmate which serves as a small buff.

Finally level 6, and the Paladin has access to Divine Punishment (FINALLY!!!) and two feats, one of them a bonus feat. Since the Paladin needs some help, he'll get Power Attack as his Paladin bonus feat and Improved Smiting as his regular feat. Both are modified as follows:

• Power Attack works as always, except effective levels in Fighter provide a "penalty buffer"; basically, you can ignore one point of penalty for every five effective Fighter levels after the 1st; 6th, 11th, 16th...). This allows you to use Power Attack and gain the increased damage without risking attack bonus, but you still need a point of penalty for the benefit to work (so at EFL 6th, you can get two points worth of damage for one point of penalty, three points of damage for two points of penalty, and so on.
• Improved Smiting provides a few benefits, including adding Charisma to damage rolls, and specifically to double smite damage when smiting a character of a specified alignment. The other is that you can deal normal smite damage to Neutral creatures (regarding the chosen alignment), so that means the smite works against a greater number of enemies. With the buffs to smite, that means you can have a reliable tactic against a greater number of enemies. Of course, Improved Smiting applies to Smite Evil, so now smite evil deals 12 points of damage against evil creatures and affects normal creatures for 6 points of damage.

So, as usual: comments? Questions? Any other feat you might want to recommend aside from Shield Specialization, Shieldmate (both of which are different from the norm) and Least Mark of Sentinel (more flavor than anything else)? 6th level is a bit important since the Fighter just happens to have reached level 6, so a lot of his feats start to scale up: he deals even more damage than before (Weapon Specialization adds an extra +2 to damage; Power Attack now has a penalty buffer of 1), and the new feats he chose add more defensive qualities (Armor Specialization adds +1 to AC, -1 to Armor Check Penalty, +1 to Max Dex bonus, -5% Arcane Spell Failure and DR 4/-) and a way to strike extra enemies (Cleave, which he can do twice per round instead of merely once), while the Paladin will have some ways to deal extra damage while getting the benefits of the aura rider thanks to the feats.

[Eurus]

The alteration to the Improved Smiting feat is very interesting. Any chance of adding that to the official paladin rework? I know it's traditional for the paladin, but I always hate the idea that a character should be denied significant portions of their abilities against many enemies based on alignment, so any bit of mitigation helps.

(Besides, if they're fighting a paladin, isn't that evil enough to be worth smiting? )

[ZeronosVega]

T.G. Oskar, I cannot put to words how amazed I am with your work. I have always enjoyed the Paladin Base Class and it's advancements, but there always seemed to have been something missing that I never could figure out. When I get the chance to participate in another 3.5 game, I will be sure to test out some of your classes. It's the least I can do, since I have no experience when it comes to DnD retooling.

However, I would love to ask a favor of sorts: If/When you have the chance, would it be possible for you to address other Paladin Prestige classes such as the Shadowbane Inqisitor or the Bone Knight? Those are two of my favorites and I would love to be able to go into either of those with your retooled classes.

[T.G. Oskar]

The alteration to the Improved Smiting feat is very interesting. Any chance of adding that to the official paladin rework? I know it's traditional for the paladin, but I always hate the idea that a character should be denied significant portions of their abilities against many enemies based on alignment, so any bit of mitigation helps.

(Besides, if they're fighting a paladin, isn't that evil enough to be worth smiting? )

Thing is, it's not just traditional but defining for the class. The Paladin, as is, fights all kinds of evil; the Blackguard fights the forces of Good and his own, the Justiciar fights all elements of Chaos alongside lawbreakers, and the Anarch doesn't care about whom does it fight, except for the forces of Order which are a particular spine on its proverbial back. However, just about everyone understands the utility of those whom are neutral in regards to their alignment (Good and Evil can use X Neutral as allies or tolerate their existence or attempt to win them to their cause; Law and Chaos don't mind Neutral X so as long as they follow the law/don't push them), and thus there's not much of a need regarding that.

Now, there IS one thing I might do, and that is make yet another ACF where you sacrifice your progression of smites (remember you get the second tier of your smite at 5th level) for the ability to smite neutral creatures, and potentially offer the ability to smite people of your own alignment (and thus open the smite abilities to just about everyone) at 15th level. This allows you to make a choice between smiting everyone or smiting those you oppose the most, but with a wider variety of smites.

Also, remember there's not only Improved Smiting (which should be an option), but Strength of Conviction, which is essentially a feat that allows you to switch your smites but limited to uses per day. Both work well as options (there might be some people who want their smites to work exclusively upon a single alignment), so there's no reason why not to keep this as-is (the ability to smite someone outside your alignment should be a conscious option, after all, since it's the power of your own alignment doing the work), but in case that feat revisions can't be used, this is a saving grace.

T.G. Oskar, I cannot put to words how amazed I am with your work. I have always enjoyed the Paladin Base Class and it's advancements, but there always seemed to have been something missing that I never could figure out. When I get the chance to participate in another 3.5 game, I will be sure to test out some of your classes. It's the least I can do, since I have no experience when it comes to DnD retooling.

However, I would love to ask a favor of sorts: If/When you have the chance, would it be possible for you to address other Paladin Prestige classes such as the Shadowbane Inqisitor or the Bone Knight? Those are two of my favorites and I would love to be able to go into either of those with your retooled classes.

Well...I half-addressed one of them, and the other...

You see, I decided, oddly enough, to keep Shadowbane Inquisitor as-is. The only exchange I did was that last bit of info related to how Shadowbane Inquisitor relates to Paladin levels if you took the Blackguard prestige class, something which, as you might realize, no longer exists (so it gets nixed, since the idea is that a Shadowbane Inquisitor essentially takes the concept of the Paladin and mixes it with "black ops". Might revise it, though, but the thing is that the Shadowbane Stalker, the cleric/rogue counterpart, has very limited spellcasting ability which could also be used for the Paladin (except the abilities are kinda off for them).

Bone Knight, though...that's quite interesting. It has a few things that could be changed (mostly, why have 3/4ths BAB if the class is meant to be a frontliner?), but for the most part it works as intended. It's a difficult class to tackle since it's meant to provide for a necromantic-flavored Paladin in service to an undead-heavy nation. Particularly, the conversions.

Rebuke Undead is pretty straightforward in that regard; you exchange the ability to turn undead with the ability to rebuke undead. Any feat that requires turning undead is no longer active, but you can take feats that require rebuking undead (and there are a few very good ones, actually).

Spellcasting is also pretty straightforward; entering into Bone Knight grants you the ability to cast Cleric spells of the necromancy subschool as usual, but you're still alignment-locked regarding the spells, except for those in the class description (namely Deathwatch, Death Knell and Desecrate; if possible, Consumptive Field would also get in). Paladins that are no longer Good, however, cannot cast certain spells of their own (namely Consecrate and other related spells, including those that might have emerged from the Book of Exalted Deeds that have the [Good] subtype).

The big point to tackle are the remaining abilities. Lay on Hands may be dealt with easily (as the class provides), but the rest is a bit harsh. Essentially, you no longer progress smite abilities, which is reasonable, but the thing is that you may no longer smite, which isn't (because Blackguards DO retain their ability to smite). In this case, they would retain their ability to smite, but those whom chose the Blinding smite class feature no longer have access to it; they, however, may change it to any of the Blackguard's smite choices immediately upon taking 1st level. Since they no longer detect evil on their own, there's no need to deal with that.

How that relates with auras, however, might be a tad odd. Likely, that means Paladins that enter Bone Knight cannot use their auras of Consecration and Vigor any longer, because both are related to positive energy. Thus, Paladins/Bone Knights using those auras may replace them for their Blackguard equivalents (Consecration for Desecration, Vigor for Covetous).

Finally, the bit about Standing Before Adversity and the Skeletal Steed. Namely, the latter ability has to be removed, and mention that your Bone Knight levels stack with Paladin levels for purposes of Standing Before Adversity or Warrior's Wings. In the case of Blade Spirit, the abilities acquired through Bonecraft Weapon essentially add to the bonded weapon's abilities, so this works as follows:

Spoiler

Show

1. Once you reach Bone Knight 6th, you must replace your bonded weapon with a bonecraft weapon. Until then, your levels in Paladin/Blackguard and Bone Knight don't stack, and you can't summon your bonded weapon (it disappears from your hand)
2. At level 6, a bonded bonecraft weapon no longer gains the holy weapon special quality, the ability to generate a Protection from Alignment effect, or the minor benefit from bonding (light or light distortion). However, you gain the ability to deal 2d6 points of damage to living creatures, and you create a Protection from Alignment effect that blocks living creatures (but doesn't work against undead).
3. If the weapon gains sentience (and sapience), the weapon houses one of the spirits of a fallen Karrnathi hero, and thus the special purpose becomes limited to "defend King Kaius" or "ensure Karrnathi supremacy". Special abilities are likewise restricted, and the weapon's alignment becomes Lawful Neutral regardless of the user's actual alignment (which means Anarchs get in trouble)
4. Finally, at 19th level, you get the Magic Circle against Alignment effect against living creatures (and summoned living creatures may not enter your area), while the weapon gains the Enervating special quality (thus, you deal negative levels on a critical hit).

In the case of Valiant Steed, the changes are minimal: basically, the formed steed gains the skeleton template for free, but any abilities gained through the class stack (meanwhile, you can't summon your steed until Bone Knight 2nd). Users of Divine Spirit, sadly, get the shaft because the divine spirit abandons the Paladin permanently; I might consider allowing the player to retrain that feature for something else. Finally; Death Strike may be used 1 day, plus one more time per day for every use of smite you have.

The reasons why I make a patch and not a full-fledged retool is because Bone Knight, aside from those necessary changes to enable emulation, is a formidable class. It's well-built, rarely sacrificing flavor for power, and granting the character a wide array of abilities related to necromancy and leading undead troops. Thus, I don't see a need to provide any changes except for those I mentioned, since otherwise it'd be the same class (for other methods of entry, such as Fighter/Cleric).

Still, a necromancy-themed Divine Champion? Gives me an idea...lemme get to my workshop!

[T.G. Oskar]

Today is...well, it's really Wednesday where I live, but it WAS Tuesday! And you know what that means!?

It's playtest time! Wait; whaddya mean it's two days early? Oh, bother!

In any case...the Paladin reached 6th level, and had a choice for two feats. After some counseling, the Paladin decided for an offensive option and a healing option: namely, Improved Smiting and Martial Study: Crusader's Strike. I could have gone for two options (Improved Smiting AND Martial Study: Mountain Hammer), but the Paladin has gone mostly through support and damage-taking options, so...

Anyways, he gained a few magic items. I've been fair to him, letting him get as much stuff as he could from his share of gold pieces, and having over 4000 gold pieces meant he could get a few more defensive stuff. Thus, he improved his tower shield into a +1 tower shield and added the Displacement armor property to his +1 full plate. Thus, his shield AC increased to a total of +6 (+4 from shield, +1 enhancement, +1 from Shield Specialization), for a grand total of 25 to his AC. Considering only the Bard has more AC than him (a combination of Dexterity, a Mithral Shirt, and using Alter Self to become a Crucian for that +8 to natural armor, alongside fighting defensively AND the paladin's bonuses to AC he reaches a very solid 33), and that the Fighter only has as much AC as the Paladin ONLY when he receives the two bonuses from him... The 1/day miss chance for 5 rounds makes for a very strong defense.

The first battles were against a group of Ettins plus a Hill Giant. The Paladin assisted by stunning one of the Ettins with a very solid smite attack (1d8 from a battleaxe, +2 from Strength, +3 from the Bard's Song, +3 from Charisma to damage and a very strong +12 from Improved Smiting for a total of 1d8+20, an average of 20 points). The second smite (against the same Ettin) dealt just about the same amount of damage, but it paralyzed the enemy, thus allowing the underlying event (the giants attacked a dwarven caravan and a single Dwarf fighter was the lone survivor) to happen (the dwarf made a coup de grace against the paralyzed giant, thus avenging his comrades). Of course, the 3d8+34 points of damage from the Fighter kinda frustrates the Paladin's damage potential, and the Warmage also doing a serious amount of damage (4d8+10 from a single Scorching Ray, plus an extra 1d6 from a Burning Veil)...

The second battle was against a quartet of Quaraphons. For some reason, I wanted to use them, though the vanilla group and not the brutal Quaraphon Bullies (the ones with Barbarian levels). Fighting against them meant taking immediate sonic damage and deafening, which ended with the Warmage's damage potential taking a plunge (with the Ice Knife spell from Complete Arcane being probably the only safe choice) and the Paladin having a reduced smite dealing only 1d8+14 (because Quaraphons are neutral, but Improved Smiting's revision allows for affecting neutral characters, and Charisma still counts). However, the attempts to hit the group caused Divine Punishment to count, so the Quaraphons took about 6 points of damage from just attempting to hit the Paladin's allies. This was also the first time the group had to face full damage, and having a fraction of that damage transferring to the Paladin was quite a bit of a lifesaver. As usual, the Fighter was the MVP, taking just about all of the Quaraphons (three in the same round, two from a full attack and a third from an attack of opportunity) by himself.

The final...well, I have a houserule of rolling a percentile dice to determine the chances of combat, with 51-100 meaning there's an encounter.

The roll was a 100. So I decided "why not have the group tackle a dragon?" Thus, the group had to face...a White Dragon. Young adult, even.

There were two conditions that made the battle slightly harder. First, the entire place was under heavy snow, with a fraction of the area with no snow (basically a 25x30 area) but otherwise limited movement. Second, the intense cold made all creatures wearing metal armor (essentially everyone) take damage as if Chill Metal was cast on them).

The dragon used the classic tactics; breath, take it to the air and stay there, doing strafing tactics with their bites. I cheated a bit, I must admit; basically the dragon fought like if it had good maneuverability despite its size, so it could basically dive down and back up to prevent the dragon from dying in three blows to the fighter's hits.

In any case, the Paladin and the Warmage took some serious damage (the Warmage went from full to a little bit less than half damage), with the Paladin taking an extra 6 points of damage from the breath (from what he took of his allies). It was right then when I realized the Paladin took more than that amount because, of course, the Paladin was wearing an enchanted shield, thus the Paladin took 6 single/4 area damage. The Paladin was still over half his HP, even though he had few (if no) chances to actually hit. However, it was this ability that saved the Warmage from going into -10 and dying from a latter critical hit from the dragon. So, basically, just by being there, the Paladin saved a life. The Warmage had her time to shine, as well, but that's part of the Warmage thread, not this one. By serving as a healer while the dragon stood overhead, only taking ONE critical attack of opportunity from the Fighter, the Warmage could survive a second breath attack after a timely Resist Energy (Cold). The dragon died after a full attack from the Fighter after he failed to sunder his massive weapon. Really, one of these days I'll have him fight without his Large Fullblade, I tell you...

So, what are the things that need explanation? Well:

• The Fighter tried this once, but this is probably what I wanted to see after all: two attacks as a standard action. You see, at level 6, the Fighter gets two attacks, but normally he could use them as part of a full attack. However, as part of the revisions for melee characters, a character with 6 levels of Fighter or an effective Fighter level of 6 may make attacks as if he was using a full attack action as a standard action. Thus, one attack at BAB +6 and another at BAB +1. What as a full round attack action, then? How about two attacks at full BAB? Thus, the Fighter can make two attacks at 6th level and furthermore if he stays straight leveled (take that, Fighter 2 dip!!). The Paladin has an effective Fighter level of 2, thus he doesn't get that benefit up until 10th level.
• The reason why the Paladin can absorb more damage is because of how the shield adds to the aura's benefit. The shield has a +1 enhancement bonus, and the Paladin has 14 Con; thus, twice his Con + twice his shield's enhancement bonus equals 6 points of absorbed damage (4 if an area attack). The Paladin NEEDS huge hit points to soak all that damage (hence, Constitution does double duty). Even if the Paladin can't contribute through direct damage, the fact that he offers "damage reduction" via a decent-ranged aura really gives him a very solid spot.
• In case I haven't explained yet, Improved Smite allows the Paladin to add his Charisma to damage (in this case a +3), and at the same time double the smite damage against creatures of a specific alignment (in this case, against evil creatures). The thing is that even as the smite attempt deals damage only to evil creatures, Improved Smite opens that damage to neutral creatures (though they only take Cha + smite damage). Thus, the Paladin's offensive capability nearly doubles.
• That "effective Fighter level" works for much more than just feats. It also works for iterative attacks, and also should work for potions AND some magic items as well. Thus far, it has been tested with scaling feats and now with melee attacks.

Thus, can we take some info out of this? Sure, here's what:

• The Paladin could use some MORE offensive potential, but at level 6 it gets quite a bit of offensive potential through Divine Punishment and TWO feats.
• On the other hand, the bonus from magic shields, at least with the aura of Devotion, really serves as a lifesaver. Even if it's merely 6 points right now, the fact that this reduced damage can be stacked alongside other ways to reduce damage to shift threat from the squishies (in this case the Warmage) to the meat-shields really redefines what tanking should be.
• A Paladin, at level 6, with elite array and few magic items has some difficulties contributing within a fully damage-optimized character. Next time, I'll do it with the same point-buy as the PCs for a much more appropriate gauge.
• Poor Reflex hurts Paladins. Real bad. Failing BOTH saves really hurts, and the fact that they can't apply their own aura bonuses hurts them more. I mean, if it could, by level 11 you could add your Con to AC and Reflex, which makes the Paladin even harder to strike. That the Paladin has actually so little AC that he actually IS the path of least resistance...
• Divine Punishment isn't overwhelmingly powerful, but definitely: damage adds up. The Paladin NEVER hit the dragon, yet he dealt 18 hit points of damage (out of the 225 it had; maximum HP because one of my players just decided to apply a metagame inference, so they were punished) is quite interesting. If it had only the average amount of hit points, that was 1/8th of the total damage dealt without even hitting. Imagine if the Paladin could actually hit...

The battle against all creatures, plus a very unusual "battle" (it was less of an actual combat and more having the Bard turn an unfriendly, lying Dragon Turtle into a helpful protector of the lake) made the Paladin reach level 7. In this session, the Paladin got:

• His masterwork tower shield is now a +1 tower shield
• His +1 full plate armor is now a +1 full plate armor of displacement
• a Javelin of Lightning
• an Eternal Wand of Protection from Evil
• a pair of Spellguard Rings (thus, the Paladin can now be on the forefront and ignore the spells from the Warmage)
• nearly 4,600 gp

This, plus he finally got Lay on Hands. Also, one extra 1st level spell known, which he has yet to learn. His effective Fighter level is also 3rd, just in case you wish to know.

So: questions? Comments? A good item worth 4,600 gp that's NOT a weapon (unless it's a returning javelin or something)? Do consider he has a Healing Belt and a Cloak of Resistance +1. Also, which 2nd level spells he should get, given that he's about to reach 8th level?

[Cieyrin]

Minor nitpick but Eternal Wands are usually arcane only. Are you waiving that requirement?

Item suggestions I have are Torc of the Titans (MIC 143, 3300 gp), Amulet of Tears (MIC 70, 2300 gp), Upgrade the Cloak to +2 (3000 gp), Helm of the Purple Plume (MIC 111, 4500 gp), Scout's Headband (MIC 132, 3400 gp), Gauntlets of Ogre Power (4000 gp), Quicksilver Boots (MIC 119, 3500 gp), Vanguard Treads (MIC 145, 3100 gp), Rock Boots (MIC 130, 2000 gp), Boots of the Mountain King (MIC 78, 1500 gp), Steadfast Boots (MIC 168, 1400 gp), Armbands of Might (MIC 72, 4100 gp), Greatreach Bracers (MIC 108, 2000 gp), Inquisitor Bracers (MIC 113, 1500 gp), Lesser Energy Assault Crystal (MIC 64, 3000 gp), Lesser Life Drinking Crystal (MIC 64, 1500 gp), Lesser Revelation Crystal (MIC 66, 1000 gp), Crystal of Alacrity (MIC 195, 3500 gp), Lesser Crystal of Glancing Blows (MIC 25, 3000 gp) or a Restful Crystal (MIC 26, 500 gp).

[Othniel Edden]

That hospitalar looks fantastic for a divine gish. full bab, and nine tenths spell casting progression, yes please.

[Hazzardevil]

Oskar, I have a minor nitpick, in the ACF section you say Justicar and Anarch can take blade spirit, but they don't have Stand upon Adversity or Thrive in Pain so they can't take it. Is it intentional that they can't take it and you made an error in saying who can take it or are you trying to come up with a class feature to swap for it?

[T.G. Oskar]

Minor nitpick but Eternal Wands are usually arcane only. Are you waiving that requirement?

Mostly. The only other character that can use it is the Warmage, and she already has it on her spell list, so...

Item suggestions I have are Torc of the Titans (MIC 143, 3300 gp), Amulet of Tears (MIC 70, 2300 gp), Upgrade the Cloak to +2 (3000 gp), Helm of the Purple Plume (MIC 111, 4500 gp), Scout's Headband (MIC 132, 3400 gp), Gauntlets of Ogre Power (4000 gp), Quicksilver Boots (MIC 119, 3500 gp), Vanguard Treads (MIC 145, 3100 gp), Rock Boots (MIC 130, 2000 gp), Boots of the Mountain King (MIC 78, 1500 gp), Steadfast Boots (MIC 168, 1400 gp), Armbands of Might (MIC 72, 4100 gp), Greatreach Bracers (MIC 108, 2000 gp), Inquisitor Bracers (MIC 113, 1500 gp), Lesser Energy Assault Crystal (MIC 64, 3000 gp), Lesser Life Drinking Crystal (MIC 64, 1500 gp), Lesser Revelation Crystal (MIC 66, 1000 gp), Crystal of Alacrity (MIC 195, 3500 gp), Lesser Crystal of Glancing Blows (MIC 25, 3000 gp) or a Restful Crystal (MIC 26, 500 gp).

I considered the Torc of the Titans for a while because the Paladin requires some damage (as well as the Brute Gauntlets), but the melee damage given by the Bard is considerable enough. I have my doubts regarding Gauntlets of Ogre Power since the Paladin is one level away from Bull's Strength. Also considered Armbands of Might but the character requires Power Attack to make it work, which it doesn't have currently.

Of the rest, I might consider the Quicksilver Boots if only because it allows swift action movement whenever necessary. Vanguard Treads are also nice because it provides very useful movement. Of the crystals, none can be used because the Paladin only has a masterwork battleaxe (and hasn't considered exchanging it, oddly enough: mostly because I wish to figure whether I want to try adding a custom Weapon of Legacy with it or merely await for a better weapon).

That hospitalar looks fantastic for a divine gish. full bab, and nine tenths spell casting progression, yes please.

Well, while it does offer such a boon, the Knight Hospitaller is heavily focused into healing, so unless you're not bothered by being a super-healer, there are equally better options (believe it or not!).

Oskar, I have a minor nitpick, in the ACF section you say Justicar and Anarch can take blade spirit, but they don't have Stand upon Adversity or Thrive in Pain so they can't take it. Is it intentional that they can't take it and you made an error in saying who can take it or are you trying to come up with a class feature to swap for it?

The latter. The Justiciar has the Persecution trait at 9th level, and the Anarch has the Random Leap ability at 9th level. Blade Spirit is gained at 4th level, so there's nothing thus far to replace those classes' 4th level ability. Thing is, I haven't decided whether I should replace those special abilities and make something for those classes similar to Stand Upon Adversity/Thrive in Pain, or whether I should just provide 4th level lesser versions of those abilities in order to enable replacements for them. Since I have yet to decide, so far it seems like they can't replace it, but once I figure some way to deal with that, I'll definitely deal with it.

--

In other things...I decided to officially attempt the Project Heretica Paladin with the core 3.5 rules, to see how it works. I used it on a last battle for a player that helped me playtest a lot during summer (the archfamous Half-Giant Fighter), but with a different set of characters.

In this case, the Paladin was a former PC (much like the Warmage, and ironically both were played by the same person), thus I finally have the chance to pull off playtesting with point buy. The Paladin I converted to this retool has the following stats: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16. Because of the houserule I implemented of doubling ability score increases every 4 levels, the Paladin ends up with Strength 16. For feats, the Paladin has Least Mark of Sentinel (Protection from Arrows; originally it had Shield of Faith), Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, and Lesser Mark of Sentinel (Lesser Globe of Invulnerability). The Paladin has a +1 longsword and a +1 full plate, so it has a reasonable +13 bonus to attack rolls and AC 22.

The battle was against a group of Inspired, comprised of four enforcers and a telepath. The remainder of the group was a Gray Elf Wizard and a Warforged Spirit Lion Barbarian (going straight to Frenzied Berserker), so its quite the strong group. Alongside them were a group of three centaurs, which are part of the barbarian's tribe (long story short, the Barbarian wants to make his own tribe/horde). Thus, it wasn't even a challenge: one 8th level Wizard, one 7th level Barbarian, one 6th level Paladin and three 4 HD Centaurs versus a CR 5 Telepath and four CR 4 Lurkers (basically the Lurk, but retooled ;) ).

So, how it went? The Barbarian and the Wizard, as usual, went first (with the Wizard using Nerveskitter to definitely go first). Being wary of crossbowmen (I usually bug him by mentioning they ready a crossbow shot at him before he even casts a spell, and last time such crossbowmen almost took him down), he casted Wind Wall but was scared of using Celerity to take some enemies down. The Barbarian was trying to gauge the situation, so he made a ready action in case someone went nearby. The Lurkers were next, so they decided to disable the Barbarian and his allies by casting Entangling Ectoplasm, which affected two of the Centaurs and the Barbarian (I assumed they auto-augmented the powers, and with 12 PP they had little problem with it; thus, a simple 1st level power neutralized the main battle tactic of the Barbarian (Pounce, of course) and also the centaurs.

The Paladin went next, and figuring the Psion could be dangerous, delivered a solid Charging Smite. Between the 3 points of Strength, the 6 points of smite, and the +1 of the weapon, that was at least 10 points of assured damage; with the roll, it was enough to one-shot the Psion, but I made sure the Psion would survive for another day (11 HP isn't really something I'd recommend, and that's how the Eberron Campaign Setting built the iconic Inspired). The Telepath, of course, tried to protect herself using Concealing Amorpha, but was still at the mercy of the Paladin.

Next turn, the Wizard used a Scorching Ray to attempt taking down two of the Lurkers (bless Psionic Body!), and both were easily hit. The Barbarian, trying to disable a pair of Lurkers instead of slaying them, used one of his "patented" (pending, of course) blend of alchemical items: a Noxious Smokestick mixed with an Alchemist's Fire and an Oil flask. The idea is to throw that weapon against a single enemy, dealing Alchemist's Fire damage, plus turning the oil on AND causing a 20 ft. cloud of noxious smoke; this time, the weapon was thrown away in order to create the smoke cloud in an attempt to nauseate them. Only one of the Lurkers was nauseated, after all, but it was strong enough to delay what I felt was the inevitable. One of the Lurkers drew near the Wizard in an attempt to take him down, but only managed to deliver meager damage; another tried to weaken the Barbarian's great axe (but mostly failed), and another tried to deliver a strike against one of the Centaurs (requiring an Adrenaline Boost to hit). The Paladin threatened to slay the Psion if they didn't lower their weapons, and because they didn't, he made a full attack against her, effectively killing her. The Centaurs drew towards the Lurkers making yet another excellent job (including one critical hit from a Large longsword).

The third round was spent having the Barbarian, even with rage, failing to hit one of the Lurkers with a full attack fueled by Power Attack (couldn't hit an AC of 19, oddly enough), while the Wizard tried to take them down using the Fiery Burst reserve feat (which was weak because he didn't have prepared a higher level Fire spell). The Lurkers, trying to take the Barbarian down, attempted a synchronized flanking strike, using a Lurker Augmentation to daze the barbarian (and Warforged gain no immunity to daze, that as much I checked). The barbarian oddly enough ignored BOTH sneak attacks (damn fortification!) but failed both Will saves (even with rage!), so he was dazed for 6 rounds. The Paladin, watching as how the Barbarian was effectively taken down, made yet another charging smite, which not only provoked some serious damage, but forced a bull rush (and thus, the Centaur was capable of making an attack of opportunity, which killed the second Lurker. The Centaurs mauled the remaining Lurkers, ending the battle.

Thus, what I learned from a different take on the Paladin? Here's what:

• Charging Smite is pretty powerful when you use it correctly. Enabling a bull rush against the right character makes for increased damage, which makes this ACF formidable with more melee characters.
• Using point-buy for the Paladin really makes a difference. Compare having one stat at 16 to TWO stats at 16, and the slight difference that Strength can do.
• The lack of aura of Devotion isn't yet notable, but having characters with lower AC not taking advantage of a bonus to AC really smarts.
• Vigor is pretty funny. Unlike Healing Hymn, which only affects healing spells, having Healing Belts heal an extra 8 points of damage further improves the benefit of this very useful item, something I've always poked my players into getting. If the Warblade manages to return, he'll like watching how his Crusader's Strike (gained through Martial Study in preparation for Eternal Blade) heals for more, just because the Paladin is nearby...

I do have bad news, though. My playtests will take a rest for perhaps an entire month, so I have reliably info between levels 3-7, which means I'll need someone who can deliver some extra playtest info. I'll see whether I can integrate Blackguards, Justiciars and Anarchs into the game, in order to fully test all possibilities. It's a shame I couldn't test the mount ACF, but I'll see when I have the chance. Thus, there are no questions or comments for a good while, except a request for more playtesting. I really feel comfortable with the project if only because the retool has resulted with a significantly boosted class, but I'd feel a bit more comfortable playtesting it with a Wizard and a Barbarian optimized for battle (and probably a Warblade as well, to test how it compares, assists or overwhelms a martial adept).

[Cieyrin]

You can use Least weapon crystals with Masterwork weapons.

Also, I think you have to enchant your weapon to +1 before you can found a Legacy with it.

Nice playtest data, though it's sad to see the project on hold for time being.

[erikun]

I've only read the first post, but felt it'd be useful to leave a couple of comments for now.

First, the Improved Smite (Stunning) ability at 5th level has the unusual scenario of an opponent under Freedom of Movement is immune to the smite when failing a save, yet end up stunned when succeeding their save. Thus, you have the odd situation of the Paladin attacking an opponent in the hopes that the actually make their saving throw.

Second, you'd need to be an 11th level Paladin or higher for the "paladin level -5 as effective initiator levels" to be of any real use. Otherwise, you'd be better off with just taking half the Paladin level as effective initiator levels.

[Gideon Falcon]

Some thoughts:

The Divine Deterrence ability is a bit awkward. The Caster Level check DC quickly becomes impossible to overcome unless your CL is several levels higher than the Paladin, yet anyone who can overcome it takes no penalty for targeting your friends. Contrast this to the Divine Punishment ability, which automatically damages the attacker, but does not cause the attack to fail.

The Champions might get bonuses to intimidate outright, possibly with an additional skill as per alignment, such as sense motive with Justiciar and Paladin and Bluff with Anarch and Blackguard.

Unyielding Resolve basically grants immunity to nonlethal damage; You don't take any penalties for having, say, infinite nonlethal damage.

What is the exact reason why Detect Evil has been removed?

You might grant Shield Other as an SLA, as well as give a few abilities to help with mobility when armored.

Paladins need immunity to Compulsion. Does it make sense for them to be puppeteered by their enemies?

Possible ACF: Smite uses return to daily, but gain extra uses equal to your charisma modifier. In return, the smite deals 1d6 damage per Paladin level, and possibly grant more smite options.

The abilities that double and triple the damage instead grant a +2 bonus per die,+4 if it would triple, +6 if it would quadruple, and so on.

As an alternative that, one might make the base smite deal 1d4 per level and half the extra damage per die from doubling and tripling and such.

[T.G. Oskar]

Some thoughts:

The Divine Deterrence ability is a bit awkward. The Caster Level check DC quickly becomes impossible to overcome unless your CL is several levels higher than the Paladin, yet anyone who can overcome it takes no penalty for targeting your friends. Contrast this to the Divine Punishment ability, which automatically damages the attacker, but does not cause the attack to fail.

This is a bit hard to tackle, but here goes:
Deterrence is intentionally hard to bypass by design; while Divine Punishment effectively punishes the attacker, Divine Deterrence stops outright the offending enemy's spell. Originally it was a Concentration check, which was too easy to bypass, so I went for other options. Eventually, I went for caster level check because it was the hardest to improve, and because it essentially meant a more offensive method of spell resistance as an aura provided to all allies. Because of how it's meant to work (as an aura-wide spell resistance for allies that has a kicker effect), whenever it's bypassed, the effect works completely. That's the measure to reduce its overall power.

The reason I mention it's hard to tackle is because there's an equally valid argument for adding the same methodology of Divine Punishment of delivering damage regardless of whether the enemy bypasses the "spell resistance" or not.

Then again...not sure if my original intention was to deliver damage regardless of whether the main effect succeeds or not. I mean, a simple coma placed on the description effectively changes everything. In fact, checking the original description (which I have saved on my notes) supports that idea: the spellcaster takes damage regardless of the success of the action (but takes less damage).

The Champions might get bonuses to intimidate outright, possibly with an additional skill as per alignment, such as sense motive with Justiciar and Paladin and Bluff with Anarch and Blackguard.

The first level of Strive Unto Adversity is merely a flavor bonus. Actual skill bonuses based on the progression of a class are better suited for Prestige Classes, which may make far better use from it than a regular class. Intimidate is a strong skill if used correctly (such as Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered), so giving it a straight bonus will make it outright brutal; a situational bonus seems better at 4th level.

Though, it gives me ideas on how to deal with the Justiciar and the Anarch. At least with the Anarch and Bluff, that is.

Unyielding Resolve basically grants immunity to nonlethal damage; You don't take any penalties for having, say, infinite nonlethal damage.

This one doesn't seem that clear. You mean whether Unyielding Resolve no longer gives you penalties for having (aleph-null) non-lethal damage or that taking absurd amounts of non-lethal damage gives you no penalties?

If it's the former, do note that a straight reading still makes the Paladin go unconscious (the ability negates being disabled because of negative lethal damage and staggered) for excess of non-lethal damage. Which relates to the latter; a large amount of nonlethal damage places you at considerable risk of a coup-de-grace, quite probably the worst penalty of them all.

What is the exact reason why Detect Evil has been removed?

It functions better as a Paladin spell rather than a spell-like ability. The flavor is excellent (it allows you to sense evil intent, which was the original idea of the Paladin), but if what I've read of some DMs protesting about it is right, not everyone appreciates it. The indiscriminate use of Detect Evil was what built the vision of the Paladin as a smiter rather than a champion of good (because pinging as evil while using the ability often served as an excuse to smite), and also served to ruin carefully constructed villains and made Sense Motive a bit pointless except to avoid lies (and after that, you have Discern Lies and Zone of Truth to counteract all except Glibness). Thus, while a skill with great flavor, it caused a bit more harm than good. Existing as a spell still allows the Paladin access to it if necessary (as well as Detect Chaos), but limits it to the Paladin's spell slots, so it's slightly more balanced than the norm. Thus, Merciful (and the Justiciar's mirror ability) take the job of Detect Evil as a class feature.

You might grant Shield Other as an SLA, as well as give a few abilities to help with mobility when armored.

Shield Other (and the area version of it, Glory of the Martyr) are Paladin spells, so it's mostly the same as Detect Evil; furthermore, considering how the abilities are organized, it'd be hard to add any new ability (every level, as far as I can recall, has a special ability that can either stand on its own or has a set of abilities that are strong enough in their own right).

As for issues of mobility...while a reasonable suggestion, it suffers the same problem as the above ability; while the Paladin doesn't have a proper increase in speed by means of a spell (unless you consider Footsteps of the Divine), the way the abilities are organized doesn't allow for a series of abilities to be added in order to deal with the mobility issues, some of which can be dealt with using Mithral armor.

Paladins need immunity to Compulsion. Does it make sense for them to be puppeteered by their enemies?

This issue is quite similar to the reasons why I was convinced to drop the immunities on the Paladin. Essentially: the Paladin has ways to get his saves unusually high, so topping that with immunities (and specifically situational immunities) doesn't allow them to use their forte. That, and remember that Protection from Evil (a single 1st level spell) can block the same compulsions that worry you, not to mention Magic Circle against Evil doing the same for your party (in close distance). So Paladins technically have immunities to compulsions, and a high resistance to them on the other hand. Granting them immunities to compulsion, no matter how reasonable the idea is, paves the way to return them their old immunities to fear and diseases, which largely reduces their need for a strong Will save, something they already have. Also, the Paladin as-is can be pretty hard to beat, so it needs a "chink in the armor", so to speak. I just don't see why I should add it when there are options to deal with it, the most important being improving your saves on the first place (the last line of defense for compulsions).

Possible ACF: Smite uses return to daily, but gain extra uses equal to your charisma modifier. In return, the smite deals 1d6 damage per Paladin level, and possibly grant more smite options.

The abilities that double and triple the damage instead grant a +2 bonus per die,+4 if it would triple, +6 if it would quadruple, and so on.

As an alternative that, one might make the base smite deal 1d4 per level and half the extra damage per die from doubling and tripling and such.

Some people have given me that idea several times, but I seem to have an aversion regarding seeing that amount of damage on a smite. Can't fully explain why, but maybe it's the repulsion of watching how the Paladin often becomes a form of "burst DPS" what really shuns me from those options (a reason why, despite currently being the best option for a Paladin, I can't seem to stomach the Ubercharger, even if I delivered the options for one to be created). Smite as an encounter ability makes the rider effects stand out; if you return the effects to daily, no amount of damage can compensate for the loss of actual defusing potential, since you'll have slightly more uses per day (equal to your Charisma modifier) but you'll seek to save them for important moments unless the DM delivers less but more dangerous battles. The way smite works allows it to be used as part of an attack of opportunity and even as part of a full attack action (at any part of the attack, so it can be used as your second or third attack if necessary), and it leads the Paladin into reinforcing his regular attacks rather than his smites (I mean, if the Paladin was a Half-Giant wearing a Fullblade, that smite would finish battles in a single stroke; likewise a Paladin with a Greatsword and 18+ Strength; the reason why the Paladin deals so little damage is because his Strength is low and because he uses a one-handed weapon).

Now, being an ACF might probably work (I can see it working better that way), but there lies the problem of exactly how that "concentrated Smite" would work. Would it be the same as the traditional Smite (daily uses, part of a standard action only) except for the increased damage and the rider effects, or would it work as the current smite except for the daily uses (hence, working as a modifier to a single attack per round)? What exactly would be those other rider effects to justify having the smite return to a daily basis? The idea of providing increasing gains to the Smites (and the further modification of expanding the choices of smiting) was meant to make the ability more useful than it currently is (because raw damage really doesn't cut it considering the alignment restriction), and even then it still requires encounter uses for the entire ability to be useful.

There's the idea of what a daily class ability should be, as well. No matter the amount of damage you deal, a daily class ability should be as powerful, if not more, than Rage or a spell. If it's as powerful as Rage, then the mentioned uses would be justified; if it's as powerful as a spell, 1~5+Cha mod uses might not suffice, since you'd be limited by day; with a good Charisma, that means one use per encounter, but at 5th level that becomes six uses per four encounters instead of the current two uses per encounter (8 uses per four encounters, and more based on the amount of encounters per day). As I mentioned on the commentary to Smite Evil, while I don't agree on calling such ability as "smite", the idea that Paizo used for their Paladin really DOES fit what a daily ability should be, if only because the effect lasts for the length of the encounter or up until the enemy is defeated. It just doesn't work as a smite, rather than as a "mark".

I MIGHT consider making that improved smite so as long as I get a good pitch for it; basically, a further explained idea on how that concentrated Smite would work aside from the pitch of "more damage, less uses". As you mentioned, the rider effects would have to be different (probably more powerful) or you'll end up with a weapon-based Evocation-like effect, which on the grand scale of things really doesn't justify a daily restriction. Consider the reserve feats or Eldritch Blast, which deal a fraction of the effect AND have a rider effect sometimes (Eldritch Blast, mostly) and they're at-will abilities, and you might figure why the idea needs a better pitch.

[T.G. Oskar]

Nor rain, nor wind, nor lightning, nor atmospherical conditions called Emily can stop me from delivering an unexpected bout of playtesting! Thus, the Paladin can act once again, and if the stars are right, there may be one more bout of playtesting before summer's over.

So, what did we did today?

The first of the battles was a DM's special...and I decided to make a naval battle, using the Stormwrack rules. I will admit, while I need to read a bit more of it, it's hard to make sense of the Shipwreck rules. For starters, I had to improvise the durability of a House Lyrandar elemental galleon, which I equated to that of a galley. Then, I had to figure out the idea about sections and stuff, which I managed to figure out later on. The other boat (a caravel) held over 100 skeletons, all of them 7th level rogues with extremely poor weaponry (only a scimitar and a chain shirt, of course) which were attempting to board the elemental galleon. The warmage was the MVP of the match in here, where a single Fireball spell took several of the skeletons in a single blast (yes, the same skeleton rogues) with a single burst.

However, of the 100 rogues, only about 30 survived, and of those only 26 boarded the galleon. The Fighter, now deprived of his Fullblade, had to fight with a warhammer but still managed to deal several bits of damage, given how damage reduction was working. The Bard began to sing, and used Cure Moderate Wounds offensively. The skeletons were fighting under concealment. So, what did our Paladin chose to do?

Well, he tried Turn Undead, of course. That, and also...well, he attempted something odd. Real odd.

Regarding Turn Undead, from the first 6 skeletons who climbed the galleon, the Paladin could only affect one. This is mostly a problem from the ability itself, not the class; however, the Paladin was pretty close to affect two skeletons with the same use. The second attempt wasn't successful, with the attempt unable to affect the undead by 1 hit dice.

As for the odd thing...well, the Paladin uses a Tower Shield as a defensive tool, so I decided to attempt something I saw on DDO and something he's not meant to do: use the Tower Shield as a 2-handed weapon by applying a shield bash. I ruled the weapon dealt 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, and that it had to be used with two hands (thus, it can't be used with a weapon, but it can be used without one), but that it allowed adding 1.5 times his Strength modifier (14 at the moment). Since he only has a battleaxe as a weapon, that was a rather nice way to deal with a two-handed offensive variant (despite the attack penalty), and alongside a smite attempt made for a reasonable way to deal quite a bit of damage. Still, it was the Divine Punishment which really made the day for everyone, dealing several points of damage alongside the Shieldmate/aura of Devotion tactic that essentially caused the otherwise challenging battle to be a veritable joke (I mean, the Paladin was the only one that took damage, and that was because of stealing that damage from the Fighter!!). He also supported the Warmage by buffing her with Shield of Faith, since the skeletons were getting near her. With a smite and a Lay on Hands, the Paladin could slay about two undead, while the Fighter once again obliterated the skeletons with a judicious use of full attacks and Cleave.

The second battle was a duo of Kuo-Toa monks with a Kuo-Toa cleric. The monks, of course, were the way to playtest the newest, as of yet unreleased version of the retooled Monk. The build already had Wis 20, so having those unarmed strikes hit with a +12 bonus to attack rolls and 1d8+6 to damage rolls (Wis to attack and damage rolls, plus an effective enhancement bonus of +1 to the same rolls). Thus, to hit the Fighter (which without the Paladin's formidable AC bonus), the Monk had to roll a 10. Yes, a 10. Oh, and because they had blindsense and the ability to have temporary blindsight (which they applied before attacking), they feared no miss chances due to the concealment). The only reason why they were slain was because of having 4 levels in Monk, compared to the 7 levels of the Paladin and the Monk. Of course, I really wanted to test the Monk in that one, so the Paladin mostly provided the same bonus (and failed on his only smite attempt, but made his first full attack bonus!! ...Though he failed on both rolls; blame my rolls and the rather high AC of the Monks for that). The Kuo-Toa cleric had terrible spells chosen (well, it HAD Bestow Curse and Divine Power, but the feats were quite odd AND the rest of the spells were pretty off), but his unique aura allowed the monks to gain extra bonuses to attack and damage rolls, and allowing them cheap shots if they died. Maybe it's because no monsters really buff off before battle (the Kuo-Toa monks had a potion of Shield of Faith +3 that would have granted them a +3 to AC, though as I could see they needed also Mage Armor AND Shield potions to work effectively). The Fighter had VERY lucky rolls, between 15 to 19, with which he passed all DC 18 Will saving throws that prevented him from being stunned or cursed (and I REALLY wanted to curse him...) Also, I could test the Damage Reduction alteration, which reduced considerably the damage taken by them from the Fighter.

So, what could we learn today?

• Turn Undead definitely sucks around these levels, mostly because the Paladin could only affect a fraction of the skeletons even with the lucky turning check. Turn Undead NEEDS to be fixed.
• Lay on Hands can be pretty brutal against undead creatures. 39 points may not seem as much; 65 on a single blow does, however. Unfortunately, this wasn't a single undead, but many; thus, while the Paladin could take about two undead creatures with a divided pool of Lay on Hands, not exactly over 20.

The uncanny defeat of 26 CR 7 skeletons caused the Paladin to gain one level, so the Paladin is level 8 now. This not only opens Mettle (which may see some use now), but also opens 2nd level spells. I decided to add 2 points to Strength (remember that one of my houserules is providing 2 points worth of ability score increases), and the ability to cast Air Walk and Resist Energy. Alongside with Haste, the ability to have the way to attack in the air (or provide the Fighter with such) will definitely assist the group further. By the way, the chosen item was an Unicorn Pendant, so the Paladin can cast Neutralize Poison if necessary and treat himself as a character of 4 points of Charisma higher for purposes of Lay on Hands.

Some extra changes and houserules I need to mention:

• I think I mentioned the standard attack action and full attack action changes, in which a standard attack action allows you to use your iteratives so as long as you have the right amount of levels in Fighter or effective Fighter levels. A full attack action does what it usually does, but all attack are treated as if having the highest attack bonus.
• Cleave can be used once per round, plus one more time per round based on effective Fighter levels. That means the Fighter could make two cleave attempts on the same round. Great Cleave still exists, but the benefit is strikingly different (think War Mind...)
• Charge not only provides a bonus to attack rolls when you have Fighter levels; you also add the bonus to damage rolls. Also, the bonus increases based on effective Fighter levels; the Fighter gains a+4 to attack and damage rolls with a single charge attempt.
• Feint is now a move action, and is a different opposed roll.

So, as usual: comments? Questions?

I need to clear something about the changes to feint. Basically, feint can be used as a move action (so you can move and then attack), and a successful feint causes you to become flat-footed for one round (instead of a single attack). However, I found a bit of problems with how feint is organized currently; basically, the opposed roll is based on the offender's attack bonus against the defender's Sense Motive check. The two times the Fighter tried to feint the enemy, it ALWAYS succeeded, because using his attack bonus meant he used the bonus from Weapon Focus, the enhancement bonus of his weapon, and the bonus from Inspire Courage, so he had a +6 on top of his huge BAB and Strength bonus. The Fighter used Feint and Sunder (on the unarmed strikes of the Monks) to attempt to disable them and deal them damage on the same time, which he managed to use as a brutal tactic (excellent because the Fighter IS using Feint and Sunder, but he found a way to deal an attack vs AC 10 pretty much).

Thus, I want to work a bit with how Feint and Sunder works. Lemme explain a bit on how the houserules work:
Feint: feinting in battle is visually appealing, but evidently frustrating. There is not much reason to feint in battle, since it requires a standard action and it only allows to ignore the opponent's Dexterity modifier to Armor Class for one attack. Feint, thus, should be made more attractive, while at the same time useful for the common warrior.
First, a feint takes only a move action; it is, after all, a moving gesture to mislead the opponent. Thus, it allows the character to attack afterwards (and allows martial characters to take advantage of their iteratives!).
Second, the opposed roll changes: the feinting character must make an attack roll, and the opposing character must succeed on a Sense Motive check; if the feint succeeds, the creature is flat-footed for one round. This effect should make Sense Motive a more important skill, and allows the warrior to depend less on Bluff.

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The problem lies when the attack bonus of the offender is a +17, and the Sense Motive bonus is a +10. The +17 is without the bonuses provided by Inspire Courage but does apply the bonus from Weapon Focus and the weapon's enhancement bonus. The attack bonus can scale just as quick as the Sense Motive check, forcing you in many ways to have Sense Motive maxed out, and if you don't have Sense Motive, you're screwed.

I still want to use the "attack bonus vs. Sense Motive" idea, but a bit less intensive; thus, I intended to make it BAB + a specific modifier (probably Dex or Int?) vs. Sense Motive check. However, it still holds the same problems, except this time maxing Sense Motive is much easier. An alternative is sought after, one that doesn't rely on Bluff but that doesn't rely on AC either. It should be something that makes sense in terms of how a warrior may use a feint, since even the heaviest armored character has the skill to pull off a feint, and if based on BAB, the Fighter will try to pull off a feint for the Rogue to deliver sneak attacks freely.

Sunder: the misunderstood ability, because nobody wants their weaponry broken. It is time-consuming, and it destroys the most valuable asset to an adventurer: their loot. Thus, how can sunder be made more effective? Enter the replacement for actually breaking the weapon: disabling it.
Sunder works a bit different than usual: you make an attack (just as if you were making an attack, hence you don’t provoke attacks of opportunity), but instead of attacking the character, you attack one part of its equipment. The attack is considered a touch attack (you’re not damaging the character but its equipment), and thus only the Dexterity bonus to Armor Class and other non-armor, non-shield, non-natural armor bonuses to AC apply. Then, the character deals damage, which is reduced by the item’s hardness, and the amount of damage not ignored by hardness goes to the hit points of the item. If the item’s hit points reach zero, the item is disabled.
So…disabled? That means the item cannot be used until it is repaired. Technically, it is “broken” but not to the point of “destroyed”. A weapon cannot deal damage, armor cannot protect, a shield is too worn to provide a bonus to AC, and so forth. Unlike the original sunder, this also applies to natural attacks: if the sunder attempt succeeds, the creature takes damage as normal and may not use the natural weapon for 1d4 rounds. It can also be used to reduce natural armor: the weapon damage (and enhancement bonuses) applies to the creature’s natural armor bonus (as a penalty) and the Strength bonus (or Dexterity bonus, along any other bonuses to damage) apply to the creature, and the natural armor is reduced in potency by 1d4 rounds. Once a sunder attempt succeeds against a natural weapon or natural armor bonus, it may not be attempted again until the penalty wears off (any attempts to sunder the creature result in normal damage in that case). For natural weapons and natural armor, the sunder attempt is a normal attack roll, not a touch attack roll. Sunder can be done as a replacement for a melee attack (either as part of an iterative attack or as part of a full attack action). Creatures cannot make sunder attempts with natural weapons (except for monks, who may sunder with their unarmed strikes).

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One thing I forgot to mention to my player was that he needed to pull off an actual attack roll instead of a touch attack, so it's my bad. I pre-empted myself on that.
However, dealing with unarmed strikes brought a slight problem. Unarmed strikes are treated as both manufactured and natural weapons in the case of Monks, but a Monk may do an unarmed strike with anything. How to make this reasonable, in case you want to use Sunder to halt a Monk's unarmed strike, or the unarmed strike of an unarmed Swordsage? Also, I decided to make sunder against natural attacks to be better, so I made attacking natural attacks deliver normal damage and disable the weapon, which I saw was a bit excessive. Mind telling me ideas on how to expand sunder to allow disabling natural weapons and armor but not make it an exploit?

[drakir_nosslin]

Unless stated otherwise, a paladin deals an amount of extra damage equal to her paladin level. As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + half the paladin’s class level + the paladin’s Strength modifier. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, smite evil has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.

Copypasta? Or did I miss something?

[T.G. Oskar]

Copypasta? Or did I miss something?

Probably not, since that tidbit wasn't on the original smite. Then again, it just might. Good to see that there are things I need to fix.

Speaking of which: the final results for the summer season playtesting are here, and...much to my dismay, the Paladin seemingly fails to deliver. Sure, the Paladin was a bit back regarding its stats (both the Fighter and the Bard, as well as the Warmage DMPC were using 32 point buy, while the Paladin was using elite array), but the stuff the Paladin could do for the moment was less than inspiring. The only thing that really, really saves the day is the Stunning Smite, which is extremely useful when correctly applied. Examples are as follows:

The first battle, against a giant squid, was far too little of a challenge. The Warmage basically ended the bout with one spell (Lightning Bolt with her Warmage Edge), and the Bard cheap-shotted the critter with a shot from hiding (since the little fella has Sneak Attack from a few levels in Rogue). Thus, little can be said about that one.

The second battle was against a pair of 5th level rogues alongside a 5th level Fighter boarding the ship. The enemies were at one ship, the party at another, and the chasm in-between was of 30 feet. The Paladin, finally able to cast 2nd level spells, prepared by using Air Walk and take benefit of the difference, but of course the boarders decided to lurch ahead using ropes to assist their Jump checks (I didn't roll for them, so I assumed they moved automatically using them). This obviated the need for Air Walk, since they were already there, so the Paladin moved and attacked one of the duo, assisted by the Bard's song. For the first time in the entire campaign, the Paladin FINALLY pulled off a successful critical hit, which with the battleaxe's x3 crit multiplier meant he finally did reasonable damage. This, of course, is pointless because the Fighter already can pull off that damage without criticals. The Fighter made little work of the other two, and the Warmage was really focused on taking the ship down, so there were no more boarders moving around.

The third battle, the "boss" battle of the campaign thus far, was against a group of Inspired lurk(er)s, Psychic Warriors and a single 8th level psion (the group is already 8th level, and the rest of the enemies were 6th level). The group decided to await until everyone could move in order to strike, so the Paladin used Magic Weapon to make his axe work better (at least add 1 point of damage, gee whiz...), and then wait until anyone got near. This wasn't so crucial as the Warmage was played as it should, and basically held all enemies at bay, with those few that escaped getting slaughtered by the Fighter. The Paladin, of course, aware that one of the Psychic Warriors had escaped the Warmage's spells, moved into that direction and intercepted him in case he got to move and attack, delivering a failed smite attempt (partly because my rolls when using the NPCs are abysmal). The Warmage made short work of that enemy, with a well-landed Orb of Electricity. The Paladin then moved around the Warmage's Stinking Cloud, and readied an action with a javelin to strike the nauseated Psion in case it made any movement. The Fighter basically ended the Psion anyways...

...or so they thought, because the Psion had a trick up its sleeve. Since it was going to be the last battle and the Fighter held an item of legacy which forced the wielder to "slay a quori with a Challenge Rating equal to his level or higher" (and not just any quori, an Inspired "apostle", since the character is molded to be Guts from Berserk but on Eberron and using the Quori as if the demons, with himself as a half-giant), the Psion became an incarnated Quori (the real boss battle of the session). The Quori began its turn by dealing Wisdom damage to the Fighter and dazing him for 5 rounds, almost taking him out of battle. Thus, the Warmage, the Bard and the Paladin had to deal short work out of it, and of course this was the moment in which Stunning Smite shone. The extra damage (of which part of it was returned because of the Quori's innate empathic feedback ability) wasn't much, but the stunning attempt was just enough to allow the Bard to daze him using a Pearl of Brain Lock they acquired long ago (as actual random loot, actually!) for three rounds. Thus, the remaining rounds were played trying to soften the Quori enough for the Fighter to deliver the last strike when he woke up, and since the Fighter could kill him in one blow, I decided to make it special with the Paladin "channeling" his remaining smite through his weapon, just for the cinematics (not the mechanics of movement; the cinema feel).

Still, although the Fighter IS optimized for heavy damage, I feel quite disappointed by the Paladin's damage output. I'm quite sure that if he had a Greatsword he could deal quite a lot more damage, even with Strength 16 (that's about 4 extra points, quite distant from the Fighter's +15 to damage), but everything would have added up more and more. With Power Attack, the Fighter can deal up to 33 points of damage on a single blow, while the Paladin can only deal similar damage through double the smite damage through Improved Smite (which has been altered, actually). That's the only quibble I have, because otherwise the Paladin has been quite effective on tanking (soaking up the damage of others, providing a sizeable bonus to AC enough to equal the Paladin's conservative 25 AC, and even adding to the Reflex saves), and the Paladin could use some more damage.

Aside from that startling realization (which should have been obvious), I find the Paladin could use a bit more buffing. Thus far, it can do the tanking job well (through soaking the damage of others and using attacks of opportunity to halt enemies on their tracks) and healing outside of combat (and in the case of INSIDE combat, the Paladin's lay on hands is quite formidable), but nothing about the damage output. The spells are a nice touch, but the battles thus far haven't help the buffing; the Warmage can do well with her buffing because Haste is really meant to take the first round of combat and the Bard's Inspire Courage song as well, but the Paladin can't afford to start combat by casting Magic Weapon or Shield of Faith, instead having to cast them at the beginning of a dungeon or so. I recognize that through playstyle, because I tend to incline towards one battle per one-two days, instead of dungeon delving (this party hasn't really been taken into an actual dungeon since the beginning of the session, so it's natural to see the party going nova most of the time). Furthermore, the rest of the party has had more magic items than the Paladin; he had a +1 full plate armor and a masterwork tower shield when he began, and through the campaign he improved it into a +1 full plate of displacement and a +1 tower shield respectively. He also gained through the campaign a healing belt, two scrolls, a cloak of resistance +1, a bronze spellguard ring (which he gained from the Warmage), a unicorn pendant, and from the last battle a greatreach bracers, while the Warmage has seven magic items (amongst them three of the seven items from the Seven Veils set), the Fighter already has a gauntlets of ogre power, a +1 fullblade (which is gonna turn now into a weapon of legacy) and greatreach bracers from the midst of the campaign, and the Bard has just as many items (arcanist's gloves, vest of resistance, boots of dragon striding, a healing belt, an efficient quiver, a bag of holding, a periapt of Wisdom +2 with a +7 competence bonus to Perform checks) as the Warmage, without counting what they got right now. Thus, while I can consider the weight of the magic items, I can't really shake off the little damage he deals, and this will by extension reflect on the rest of the Divine Champions.

Thus, I have a proposal to make: the best way is to add an extra bit of damage right from the start, where it matters the most, and of course that means I'm gonna add Charisma to damage. However, I'll limit its application: the Charisma damage will apply ONLY if you wear a shield, so that the Paladin deals reasonable damage both WITH a shield or without (with the shield adding more AC and improving the auras, while the two-handed weapon serving as a way to deal slightly more damage). That, or adding Constitution; this allows the Paladin to focus on Cha as primary, allowing two-handed weapon users to focus on Strength while shield users focus on Constitution. The latter allows the Paladin to apply both secondary stats to its damage, while keeping the main stat as an optional that can be applied through either smite (as someone here pointed out) or through feats (Divine Might, for example). I'll plan to make this as follows:

Protector's Might (Ex): A (1st/2nd/3rd) level paladin may add her (Constitution/Charisma) modifier to all damage rolls when wielding a shield. If she wields a tower shield, she may add the modifier to her attack rolls as well.

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1st-3rd is the right moment where the ability must appear, since the Paladin has to deal as much damage as fast as possible. Charisma or Constitution is explained above; Charisma is the better score, while Constitution is the score best fit for a shield-using Paladin, since it also improves the auras, which are further improved by the use of a magic shield. The tower shield bit is part of my reasoning; the Paladin had a reasonable to-hit bonus equal to his BAB + his Strength modifier + 1 from the masterwork battleaxe, but had the -2 penalty from the tower shield. This, while reasonable, caused lots of failures because my rolls often were lower than 10 (and at times, lower than 5), so the Paladin could hit once whereas the Fighter could hit twice, EVEN with the smite bonus. I could simply add Cha/Con to attack rolls from the beginning, but there are ways to make the attack bonus increase faster; this is mostly to reduce the penalties from wielding a tower shield and possibly wielding a Large one-handed weapon via Monkey Grip.

Ideally, this should allow the Paladin (and by definition, some of the other Divine Champions) to work better if they choose to use a shield, while allowing Paladins that wish to have better Strength to exploit it as natural. This also allows taking advantages to any effect that increases Strength, such as magic items (Gauntlets of Ogre Power or Belts of Giant's Strength) or spells (Bull's Strength). There's a proposal I attempt to work with Power Attack in that when you reach an effective Fighter level of 6 you permanently increase your Strength damage by 1.5 if you use a one-handed weapon, and double your Strength damage (instead of 1.5) when wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon in two hands. Since Power Attack is the "two-hander" classic feat and a way to deal more damage, I figured it was the best feat to apply this bonus as currently stands.

Aside from that: questions? Comments? It'll be some time before I can test the changes, but I really want to solve (if only somewhat) the damage problem of the Paladin as it stands, so that it may contribute more to combat than it already does (since being a standing bonus to AC and sucking up the damage really worked a lot, since even standing there doing nothing made him useful). I'm tempted to reduce the effective Fighter level of the Paladin to 3, since most of the feat fixes I've planned usually work at an effective Fighter level of 6th, which means the Paladin has to wait until 10th level to take advantage of them. This won't hurt the Fighter a bit, since he still can get the bonuses from level 6, but it affects those classes that are half-casters a lot because they need to wait until half of their careers to have that utility apply.

[T.G. Oskar]

So yeah, I decided to do a major clean-up and do some more modifications. This is what I did:

• Added my suggestion of allowing shield-using Paladins their Charisma modifier to damage rolls, and attack rolls if using tower shields.
• Refined the vocabulary regarding Paladin/martial adept multiclassing.
• Added weapon-based benefits to the Blackguard's auras. Thus, a Blackguard wielding a two-handed weapon makes its auras far more dangerous.
• Extended the modifications of the Paladin's smites and auras to all divine champions. All smite DCs are based on Strength modifier, all aura bonuses depend on Strength, Constitution or Charisma (leaving Anarch unchanged)
• Translated the Pathfinder Paladin's "Smite Evil" into an ACF. It now works like a mark, sorta like the Paladin's Divine Challenge but offensively.
• Minor fixes to organization.

I still have a few PrCs to post up, and I'm working on making a retool to the Holy Avenger (and some weapons that haven't appeared since AD&D 2nd Edition, not to mention some suits of armor).

[Ernir]

I have exactly one serious problem with the class. The stunning version of the Smite is just way too powerful.

At first level, enforcing a save vs. 1-round stun is pretty good - normally something that'd be reserved for a 2nd level spell, but whatever. Things are probably dying in one hit or so anyway.
It also bypasses undead immunity to stun. That's kind of unique, but whatever, undead are so annoying with their immunities anyway.
It also dazes on a successful save. This is where I went "WHAT!?!?".
Dazing someone without a saving throw (or in this case, on a failed saving throw) shouldn't be a first-level effect. It's in line with spells like Stun Ray, which is one of the better 7th level spells. As any optimizer will tell you, stun and daze are just about the worst conditions that can be inflicted upon a creature, and you're offering one of them regardless of the outcome of the saving throw... at first level. This isn't good.

The fifth level upgrade allows you to paralyze the creature on a failed saving throw, and stun it on a successful one. Pretty much the same, only now there's also the option of killing you via an ally's CdG if you fail the save.

At Paladin levels 6th, 11th, and so on, the duration increases. While one round of not doing anything is likely to cost you a battle, more than one round increases the chance exponentially (and this is not just a figure of speech). Still with no meaningful save. I do not know of a single ability in all of WotC D&D that, on a successful save, renders you stunned for more than one round. This begins at ECL 6.

The 15th level upgrade kills FoM as a defense against the paralysis, and allows the Smite to fail on a successful save. Oh, well.



I'm sorry if I come off as nonconstructive here, but it really looks like you vastly underestimated the value of action denial without regard for saving throw results.

If you want to keep the possibility of Smite stunning, I'd suggest something like this instead:

• Level 1: On a hit, save vs. stun. Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
• Level 5: On a hit, save vs. stun and paralysis (one save vs. both conditions. They overlap in action denial, but are different with respect to immunities and the magnitude of suck). Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
• Level 15: As the 5th level ability, but a successful save only reduces the duration of the conditions to one round, rather than negating them.

The duration (levels 1-5 one round, levels 6-10 two rounds, and so on) is probably fine if the saving throw results are meaningful.

[Cogidubnus]

I really like this. Might I ask you to spoiler the pictures though, it makes reading the text kinda hard when it's stretched to the width of the pictures.

I also approve of allowing shield-wielders to get bonuses, largely because sword-and-board is so unloved by DnD rules anyway.

A couple of things about the Justiciar. Firstly, the text doesn't actually say they only pick one Verdict, whereas the Paladin's does, so I assume the Justiciar ought to as well. Secondly, it might be helpful to define what you mean by "proven guilty" when using Verdicts. I mean, if I'm using one in Sharn in Eberron, a criminal can only be legally proven guilty if the Watch refer their case to a judge who then passes them on to trial by a 9-man jury, none of which is conducive to fast encounters xD judged guilty by the Justiciar might serve, with a note saying that the DM and player need to negotiate what this constitutes.

Ed: Oh, and one other thing. Outsider type and DR 10/Epic and opposite alignment as capstone abilities isn't very awe-inspiring. Totally defensive abilities rarely are. Another favourite paladin of mine, Gorgondantess', allows you to Smite all enemies and doubles your Smite against Evil enemies as a 20th-level ability, and that's with Smite adding Charisma bonus to attack rolls and Paladin level to damage on every attack against Evil creatures. Increasing all damage and penalties to opponents of opposite alignment and widening abilities to affect Neutral targets too would be nice.

Ed 2: Another thing about the Justiciar. Is it a prepared or a spontaneous caster, the text says two different things. I think spontaneous would be better.

[T.G. Oskar]

I have exactly one serious problem with the class. The stunning version of the Smite is just way too powerful.

At first level, enforcing a save vs. 1-round stun is pretty good - normally something that'd be reserved for a 2nd level spell, but whatever. Things are probably dying in one hit or so anyway.
It also bypasses undead immunity to stun. That's kind of unique, but whatever, undead are so annoying with their immunities anyway.
It also dazes on a successful save. This is where I went "WHAT!?!?".
Dazing someone without a saving throw (or in this case, on a failed saving throw) shouldn't be a first-level effect. It's in line with spells like Stun Ray, which is one of the better 7th level spells. As any optimizer will tell you, stun and daze are just about the worst conditions that can be inflicted upon a creature, and you're offering one of them regardless of the outcome of the saving throw... at first level. This isn't good.

The fifth level upgrade allows you to paralyze the creature on a failed saving throw, and stun it on a successful one. Pretty much the same, only now there's also the option of killing you via an ally's CdG if you fail the save.

At Paladin levels 6th, 11th, and so on, the duration increases. While one round of not doing anything is likely to cost you a battle, more than one round increases the chance exponentially (and this is not just a figure of speech). Still with no meaningful save. I do not know of a single ability in all of WotC D&D that, on a successful save, renders you stunned for more than one round. This begins at ECL 6.

The 15th level upgrade kills FoM as a defense against the paralysis, and allows the Smite to fail on a successful save. Oh, well.

I'm sorry if I come off as nonconstructive here, but it really looks like you vastly underestimated the value of action denial without regard for saving throw results.

Oh, no; it's not like that. Any critique is constructive, and you didn't meant for it to be insulting. Still; I did consider the pros and cons of adding a rider effect with a lessened form of the main effect on a successful save.

Stunning Smite is essentially an improved form of Stunning Fist, an ability that a 1st level Monk has. It has three essential improvements over this ability: Cha to attack rolls makes the chances of landing the attack better (while the Monk depends on having a high attack roll to land it), the extra damage (between 1-5 points of damage at the first levels), and the daze-on-success effect (the issue in question). Of all three, the one that makes Stunning Smite far better than a Monk (or an unarmed combatant such as an Unarmed Swordsage) with Stunning Fist is the daze-on-success effect; the extra damage is not noticeable (perhaps at the first two levels, but right at the third the damage doesn't add up as much as using Power Attack with a two handed weapon), and the bonus to attack depends on having a secondary save high (which is a boon, but something the Monk should have had in order to reduce some of its MAD). We're speaking about two classes which have a history of MAD, although this form of the Paladin has a lesser degree of it (since the idea is that you could work well with two stats, while getting a solid benefit with the third).

Stunning Fist is considered to be universally weak, because of three things: first, it requires an attack roll. Second, it requires a saving throw. Third, if you're immune to stun, you're immune to the main effect. Too many hurdles for a 1-round stun have far too many cons outweighing the pros (essentially stopping an enemy dead for 1 round). Stunning Smite has ONE con that replaces one of those mentioned above; it requires the enemy to be evil in order to be affected. This merely alters the amount of enemies it can be affected (it adds undead, which are quite numerous at low levels) but it removes others (animals, for example, which are also quite numerous). If I were to remove the only advantage that Stunning Smite has over Stunning Fist, the smite would be by deference as weak as the feat because of comparison and contrast. But, let's keep your suggestion floating around.

At 5th level, Stunning Smite quite definitely leaves Stunning Fist in the dust. The monk can't do as much damage (or hit as well) as the Paladin, the stun turns into paralysis, and the "daze-on-success" turns into "stun-on-success". That much we can agree upon. But, by that level, spellcasters already have their save-or-dies around: Web, Stinking Cloud (nausea is just as bad as stun or daze, and has less penalties) and Hold Person (only works on humanoids, but otherwise it's only a saving throw). Adding Spell Compendium you can get stuff like Earthen Grasp, Ray of Dizziness and Nauseating Breath. All have their pros and cons, but generally their pros outweigh their cons: for example; Web doesn't stop your actions but causes a chance to interrupt your spells, Stinking Cloud can be evaded by succeeding on the save and moving around but blocks your line of sight, Ray of Dizziness only allows one action but only requires a ranged touch attack, Nauseating Breath is weaker than Stinking Cloud but affects an area just as large. The paladin is still limited to one evil creature, still requires to make its attack roll and hit (thus allowing miss chances to ignore this entirely), and if you fail you get stunned but immunity to stun applies (so you NEED the undead or evil construct to fail on their save or else they don't suffer the effect). The pros yet again outweigh the cons. Also; consider that while the earlier effect allows you to get stunned for 1 round for every five class levels if you fail the save just as the Tier 2 ability allows you to get paralyzed for the same range of rounds, the first ability counts as "rounded up" while the latter by RAW counts as "rounded down" (so a creature can only be paralyzed for 1 round). Furthermore, if the creature is somehow stunned by the successful save, it is only stunned for 1 round (not stunned for 1 round/5 class levels, rounded up; that as much I made sure on the playtest). It IS a vast improvement over the closest thing a martial character can do, but not as much as what a spellcaster can do.

At 15th level, all bets are meant to go off. Just as every optimizer can tell you that a stun fail/daze success is a bad idea, every optimizer can tell you that a ring of Freedom of Movement costs 40k gp, one-fifth of the WBL suggested by the books for a 15th level character (and probably accessible from earlier on). Freedom of Movement comes online at 9th level, so the Paladin retains all that power up until 10th level, and then the high AC, the high Fort saves and the chances of Freedom of Movement appearing reduce the benefit of the smite to what it was before: merely a damage increaser. That's 5-6 levels before the Paladin gets its comeback by ignoring the most common immunity and the most specific immunity. The Paladin NEEDS this to make their effect worthwhile, since Freedom of Movement bypasses daze, stun AND paralysis, so by 9th level a stunner's effectiveness drops staggeringly. I mean, it's at 10th level, when the casters get Freedom of Movement and the saves are high enough that the unarmed combatant "catches" up with Freezing the Lifeblood, which is hilariously limited; Monks "catch up" at 14th level, and few are crazy enough to take Monk all the level to 14th. Unarmed Swordsages won't have enough slots to take Freezing the Lifeblood up to 14th level and use them with their maneuvers; they don't care since they get Hand of Death as a 4th level maneuver, Shadow Noose delivers a weak stun effect but causes very strong damage, and White Raven Hammer auto-stuns and deals much more damage. All of those abilities are ignored through Freedom of Movement, so there MUST be something to ignore that immunity, because of ALL the abilities that effectively takes down.

Still, I can admit that it's TOO powerful. Or better yet; it's not working as intended. Blinding just as much; Blinding was meant to be an undead-slayer but also a deterrent against melee combatants, while the Stunning Smite was better for spellcasters because it halts them completely. Switching their saves wasn't really the best move. So, having said that, and with a need to fix the description...

If you want to keep the possibility of Smite stunning, I'd suggest something like this instead:

• Level 1: On a hit, save vs. stun. Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
• Level 5: On a hit, save vs. stun and paralysis (one save vs. both conditions. They overlap in action denial, but are different with respect to immunities and the magnitude of suck). Undead are dazed instead. Save negates.
• Level 15: As the 5th level ability, but a successful save only reduces the duration of the conditions to one round, rather than negating them.

The duration (levels 1-5 one round, levels 6-10 two rounds, and so on) is probably fine if the saving throw results are meaningful.

For starters, I'd switch Blinding Smite/Stunning Smite saves. Stun is now a Fort save, Blind is now a Will save (makes it a bit more distinctive). Thus, warriors can now block off stun.
Tier 1 (Level 1 effect): On a hit (first barrier), save vs. stun (second barrier). Undead are dazed. Save forces a Fort save vs. daze (third barrier). This causes three rolls (annoying, yes) but keeps the daze effect.
Tier 2 (Level 5 effect): On a hit (first barrier), save vs. paralysis (only one save). Undead and constructs are treated like stunned instead (the idea is to affect constructs as well, which have the same annoying penalties, in case those constructs are evil; the Retriever will be an annoying enemy for the Stunning Smite Paladin). Save causes a stun for 1 round (or maybe daze?), immunities apply.
Tier 3: Ignore/suppress Freedom of Movement and immunity to paralysis (this is annoying and I refuse to change it so as long as Freedom of Movement retains all its potential, regardless of the suggestions, because the last thing I'd hate is to have a worthless ability at 9th level because a spell blocks it out). Save causes stun for 1 round, immunities apply (this time it MUST be stun, no exceptions).

I could make a change for the Tier 3 ability, but I really need to make sure it's fair. I do consider a few spells have to be altered (Mind Blank, Protection from Evil, Freedom of Movement and Knock) so that they serve as "spell resistances" against the specified effects (and Knock as if an Open Lock roll with a benefit equal to your caster level), but I have to counter that annoying immunity because otherwise it makes little sense to progress Stunning Smite beyond 5th level (better go for Blinding or Resounding which get much more powerful).

While it would be easy to deal with Freedom of Movement as a specific action (a clause in which the paladin must roll a modified level check vs the Freedom of Movement effect in order to suppress it), immunity to paralysis will spell the doom of the ability, and while slightly scarcer, it is an immunity that will be annoying (specifically for Undead). The 15th level ability is already fighting against maneuvers that can easily outperform its utility (example: Ancient Mountain Hammer, with its average of 42 points of extra damage which can't be ignored by DR, or Rabid Bear Strike, or War Leader's Charge, or Castigating Strike...), so it needs to be competitive if anything else, but still something quite unlike a maneuver, so that it may be used more than once. I could consider the ideas, but if I end up with something that can be eventually blocked by a single spell or a simple immunity, then I wouldn't choose to gain the final Tier 3 ability when I could simply change it to the Tier 3 ability of the Blinding Smite (a disruption effect with scaling DC AND available to any used weapon) or Resounding Smite (Castigating Strike + Earthstrike Quake that bypasses normal Evasion and affects those with Improved Evasion, plus confusion). At least in the playtests Stunning Smite (which IS the type of smite the paladin is using) isn't as powerful as...well, the damage output of the Half-Giant Fighter or the Warmage with her Warmage Edge. The daze (now stun) is essentially the one way in which he can contribute with his allies.

I'd like to see the response to that, because while daze and stun ARE powerful abilities, nerfing it too much will make the Stun ability pointless except for the first few levels, something that's quite definitely NOT the intention.

I really like this. Might I ask you to spoiler the pictures though, it makes reading the text kinda hard when it's stretched to the width of the pictures.

I also approve of allowing shield-wielders to get bonuses, largely because sword-and-board is so unloved by DnD rules anyway.

A couple of things about the Justiciar. Firstly, the text doesn't actually say they only pick one Verdict, whereas the Paladin's does, so I assume the Justiciar ought to as well. Secondly, it might be helpful to define what you mean by "proven guilty" when using Verdicts. I mean, if I'm using one in Sharn in Eberron, a criminal can only be legally proven guilty if the Watch refer their case to a judge who then passes them on to trial by a 9-man jury, none of which is conducive to fast encounters xD judged guilty by the Justiciar might serve, with a note saying that the DM and player need to negotiate what this constitutes.

It should be as the rest: they choose one Verdict at 1st level, then either choose another Verdict at 5th level or improve their existing one, then they choose another Verdict at 10th, 15th and 20th levels, with the ability to improve a Tier 1 Verdict to a Tier 2 Verdict (and at 15th level, a Tier 2 Verdict to a Tier 3 Verdict).

Given that the Justiciar has no special ability to gauge if someone's a criminal, the Justiciar makes a blind Verdict within a city. Essentially, it is the decision of the DM whether the creature is affected or not; if not, the Justiciar does not lose the use of its Verdict. Ways to check on that would be to make a Gather Information check or essentially witness the crime in progress, even if the law wouldn't essentially prove him guilty (you ARE the law, hence you prove him guilty; you override the law in that one, but you're submit to it, so your Verdict would take effect, but you'd still have to take it to the law. Hence, the non-lethal damage trait). The main difference is that while a guard may be doubted, if YOU as the Justiciar claim the creature has committed a crime because you witnessed it violating a law and your Verdict struck true, the magistrates will have a supernatural reason to agree (the forces of Law themselves judged the criminal guilty). The moral alignment of the Justiciar may apply, as well as how much the Justiciar knows of the law; if he sees someone steal food, uses his Verdict and senses that it has failed (because the creature wasn't immobilized or doesn't feel physical pain), then the Justiciar may realize the creature did no wrong within that area, but may feel that violated something he or she feels should be within any codex of law.

Still: the note has been noted (pun and redundancy intended). This should be a pretty clear explanation on how to work with someone being guilty.

Ed: Oh, and one other thing. Outsider type and DR 10/Epic and opposite alignment as capstone abilities isn't very awe-inspiring. Totally defensive abilities rarely are. Another favourite paladin of mine, Gorgondantess', allows you to Smite all enemies and doubles your Smite against Evil enemies as a 20th-level ability, and that's with Smite adding Charisma bonus to attack rolls and Paladin level to damage on every attack against Evil creatures. Increasing all damage and penalties to opponents of opposite alignment and widening abilities to affect Neutral targets too would be nice.

Doubling smite damage at 20th level isn't truly inspiring, much less widening abilities to affect Neutral targets, if you can do it with a feat. I've considered improving a feat to do so (Improved Smiting, which I'm playtesting its effects currently). I've also considered widening the effects of the Smite to Neutral characters (based on the class) as a smite ACF. Making it an automatic 20th level ability seems just as weak as providing DR 10/epic and alignment. It's mostly a gift since by the moment you reach 20th level you're essentially super-resilient to everything (I mean, Unyielding Resolve alone makes for a brutal capstone, because it augments the negative hit point range thus essentially providing you with more HP; the final ability of Stand upon Adversity is also a formidable capstone). The reason why I say that's uninspiring is because while you can get DR pretty easily, you can rarely get Epic DR that also stacks with another alignment; meanwhile, a critical hit already doubles your Smite, and the adjustment to Improved Smite also doubles your Smite damage, so I'm essentially offering you the capstone as a feat. I couldn't do that with the current capstone.

As a final point: DR as it currently stands isn't surprising. As I envision DR, Paladins get a 50% reduction on their physical damage unless the damage comes from an epic weapon of an evil alignment; likewise with the rest of the Divine Champions. That makes DR all the more powerful, as it should be, and just gaining access to native Outsider with a specified alignment even more (since you could effectively get a new spell slot via feat and choose a spell that requires you to be a good outsider to pull that off, makes you immune to spells such as Charm, Dominate or Hold Person, completely alters the effect of bane weapons and other minor but flavorful benefits).

[Cogidubnus]

Ok. I think, by reading your text, that you rule that DR of the same type stacks?

while you can get DR pretty easily, you can rarely get Epic DR that also stacks with another alignment;

Which is not how I read the rules, I read it as being only one source of DR. That would make for a very different level of power with the DR.

You also didn't explain about what sort of caster the Justiciar is.