Project Heretica - not just a Paladin retooling

[T.G. Oskar]

Ok. I think, by reading your text, that you rule that DR of the same type stacks?

Which is not how I read the rules, I read it as being only one source of DR. That would make for a very different level of power with the DR.

Not really. What I meant there was that it's hard to find one source of DR that requires both an Epic weapon and a weapon of a specified alignment that is gained via a class feature. You can get DR that gets turned off via Magic, or via a specific alignment, but getting Epic DR is pretty rare unless you're of a race that allows it, since no Epic Prestige Class grants that. Even dragons, which after CR 21st are considered epic creatures, don't get Epic DR. Having one that also requires a specific alignment (hence, DR X/Epic and alignment) is even rarer, much rarer than a feat that allows affecting any creature (Strength of Conviction) and a way to double the smite damage (18-20 crit range + keen/Imp. Critical). Perhaps I wrote it in a way that made it look like I ruled DR stacked, which isn't the case.

The ruling I DO, though, is that DR reduces damage based by percentage. Someone with DR 1 would reduce the first 5% of damage dealt, up to a minimum of 1 point (thus, someone who deals 5 points of damage gets 1 point off through DR, while someone who does 40 gets 2 points reduced). For every point of DR, the character reduces 5% (up to a maximum of 95%), and the minimum damage reduction would be based on the amount of DR itself. Thus, a character with DR 10/epic and evil would reduce 50% of the damage taken by a weapon (10 x 5% = 50%), with a minimum of 10 points, unless the weapon has an enhancement bonus of +6 and is evil-aligned. Having that degree of damage reduction makes the capstone quite powerful, since only a few creatures have a weapon of that magnitude to bypass that protection, and any other attack gets half its total shafted. Outsider is merely icing on the cake.

However, it IS a weak capstone with the current rules of DR. It IS the trend on many other places, though, and the capstone has to be such that it prepares you for Epic levels, so twice your damage and affecting everyone doesn't seem like something you'd like to wait until Epic for; you'd want it earlier on. DR is something that wastes its power much later on, but changing your type not so much (IF you have a way to get Alter Self, that is).

You also didn't explain about what sort of caster the Justiciar is.

That is because I saw the second edit right after I posted the response. Justiciar is meant to be a spontaneous spellcaster, and as such it learns the spells rather than having to prepare them. All divine champions do, so it's really something I apparently didn't dealt with. Notice that's a problem with the Blackguard and the Anarch as well, because of how they're organized; I made the Paladin on one document, then the other three on a separate document, and thus they were pasted differently. However, by noticing how the Paladin (the base class, so to speak) is written, and the discussion about the Divine Champion chassis:

There are a few traits that you can extrapolate from the "Divine Warrior" chassis:

1. Limited, yet substantial, amount of spellcasting. Their spellcasting ability is spontaneous and increased from the original Paladin.

Emphasis mine.

Thanks for pointing that out, though. The documents are huge (the Blackguard and the Justiciar alone, with the commentary, exceed the 50,000 word mark), so I could use some help on proofreading. It seems that people mostly notice the Paladin and forget that there are currently 4 classes and 2 PrCs, plus a page for ACFs and a page that deals with the nature of the homebrew itself comprising the page (which is odd, because there's a title page...), so the rest of the classes get little proofreading.

[Fable Wright]

Hm... could you give some ACFs for the normal Paladin/Blackguard chassis to make them more awesome, but not necessarily as overwhelming as this? With spellcasting, usually two or more class features per level, it can be a bit of a turn-off for some DMs, making some players who want to try it out unable to. However, a halfway point between normal paladin and this through ACFs would make it more palatable to restrictive DMs.

[Lord_Gareth]

I'd actually like to see a real class feature on level 1 of the standard paladin, since the nonlethal damage thing is absolutely worthless in the rocket-powered swingfest that is L1 combat.

[Cogidubnus]

Thanks for clarification on the spellcasting, I assumed it must be spontaneous but thought I'd check. It's virtually impossible to keep that much text error-free, I'm well aware. Thanks for answering my queries.

[T.G. Oskar]

Hm... could you give some ACFs for the normal Paladin/Blackguard chassis to make them more awesome, but not necessarily as overwhelming as this? With spellcasting, usually two or more class features per level, it can be a bit of a turn-off for some DMs, making some players who want to try it out unable to. However, a halfway point between normal paladin and this through ACFs would make it more palatable to restrictive DMs.

Well, I *was* thinking about hotfixes for the Paladin class without making it overwhelming, but the whole idea of the project was to retool the class from the ground up.

I generally support the following ideas, though:

• Full CL. No nonsense about 1/2 CL after 4th level, or class level -3 CL. The former is extremely punishing, the latter is basically asking for a feat tax. Expanding the spell list is purely optional.
• Smites per encounter instead of per day. That should make them a bit more useful. Of course, that would require a method to make the smites a bit more powerful, in order to make them awesome.
• Replace uses of Remove Disease for bonus Fighter feats, divine feats or domain feats. Then, return Remove Disease into the Paladin spellcasting.
• Add Intimidate to the list of class skills. Intimidate is a strong tool that the Paladin could use, and a Paladin could be intimidating without being overtly evil.

That should do something to solve a few of the issues without really delving over the Paladin class itself, in case someone's too intimidated by the class. Basically, it makes the Paladin a bit closer to a part Fighter/part Cleric class, but with the chance of adding the ACFs that already exist (Charging Smite, Divine Spirit, Underdark Knight) to modify the class. In fact, that was basically the addendum to the Project, except do consider that the Project still has a few things to show (such as the other PrCs). It's as much an addendum to the project as the chassis discussion, except the chassis discussion was, IMO, essential to the project itself.

I'd actually like to see a real class feature on level 1 of the standard paladin, since the nonlethal damage thing is absolutely worthless in the rocket-powered swingfest that is L1 combat.

Hmm. Sense Motive: [roll]1d20+2[/roll].

Was it good enough, or not? That was sarcasm, wasn't it?

In any case, isn't smite sufficient for the "rocket-powered swingfest"? Non-lethal damage done automatically is basically a fluff feature, but the class already gets smite, which is essentially THE method of damage dealing (even if it's only 1 point of damage + rider effect at the moment). A paladin wielding a greatsword with Str 16 will deal just as much damage, if not more, than the orc wielding a greatsword with Str 16; what's better, the Paladin could then use Power Attack and deal exactly the same damage as an orc, but with Charisma to attack rolls as a bonus. Hardly any loss. Then, it's off to base Power Attacks.

If you refer to shield-users, they get a little behind at 1st level, but they got their shields where it matters the most. At 2nd level, when the AC doesn't increase but the attack bonus does, then the Paladin gets to add its Charisma, and thus it does a reasonable amount of damage (Strength + Charisma) but keeps the same better AC. Since you now draw from two factors (Strength AND Charisma) for your damage, you can increase your damage potential per hit even further. Then, add stuff like Agile Shield Fighter and enjoy your two-five hits with Str+Cha to damage, plus a smite whenever it's needed the most.

[NineThePuma]

To add some perspective to Gareth's request, Gareth (and I, for that matter) are (or was, in my case) participating in a low level arena scenario, starting from level 1. Your classes tend to lack anything to make them big and scary at level 1, or worse, they don't shine until later levels. This is less a problem of your classes, but the circumstances mean that any class that really comes into its own at level 3+ aren't options.

I'll be posting my experiences (with the Bez-Kismet) in the appropriate thread, but I was hoping that you'd be able to get some insight into Gareth's request by knowing the circumstances that prompt it.

(As an aside, your Ninja has Ki Pool... and then nothing to spend its Ki on at level 1. I can't really help but think this is an issue.)

[Lord_Gareth]

Not just that, but if you whiffsmite (an incredible probability) you lose it for the encounter and become a fighter with no bonus feat. But more than anything, making the nonlethal thing a class feature meant to take up a slot at first level is incredibly underwhelming. Justicar has the same problem, except they can pick up lethal damage on whips as at least a bone to whip-builds.

In fact, the first five levels of ALL of these classes are chock full of passive abilities that are really uninteresting to play around with. Like, seriously, the 0-level spells do precisely nothing for those levels and your combat options are, essentially, "Charge" and "Rapid Shot". This desperately needs mixing up.

[T.G. Oskar]

To add some perspective to Gareth's request, Gareth (and I, for that matter) are (or was, in my case) participating in a low level arena scenario, starting from level 1. Your classes tend to lack anything to make them big and scary at level 1, or worse, they don't shine until later levels. This is less a problem of your classes, but the circumstances mean that any class that really comes into its own at level 3+ aren't options.

Not just that, but if you whiffsmite (an incredible probability) you lose it for the encounter and become a fighter with no bonus feat. But more than anything, making the nonlethal thing a class feature meant to take up a slot at first level is incredibly underwhelming. Justicar has the same problem, except they can pick up lethal damage on whips as at least a bone to whip-builds.

In fact, the first five levels of ALL of these classes are chock full of passive abilities that are really uninteresting to play around with. Like, seriously, the 0-level spells do precisely nothing for those levels and your combat options are, essentially, "Charge" and "Rapid Shot". This desperately needs mixing up.

That was the answer I was looking for. The exact range and scope of the problem, because I had a hint of the same problem but was playing with a modified set of rules.

However, I have a few issues with this. What exactly seems to be the problem; the damage, or the options? The Paladin has options inside combat, more than just charging or smiting; they have the same options as every other martial combatant, as well as the ability to intimidate just as well if not better than other classes (because of the Charisma focus). Blackguards and Anarchs can also feint just as well.

Now, I think I have the issue pegged down, and I believe it relies with the options Crusaders and Psychic Warriors (a few of the Tier 3 classes) get. Going for maneuvers wasn't my intention; after all, the idea was that the Paladin could exist on its own without having to stack maneuvers on top of them. Martial Study works well in case they want to get some of that power and flexibility, and while they get not as many feat slots, they DO get more feat slots than the average paladin (or cleric, barbarian, swashbuckler, and even the crusader itself). If it's for the spells, while I can work a reduction on when spells come online (sorta like what Pathfinder does with them), but I still have my reserves on expanding their spell list up to 6th level (it makes Bardic spellcasting, one of the few unique traits of Bards, a complete joke) or 5th level (same, but with Duskblades). Furthermore, giving them the ability to cast their 1st level spells at 1st level will interfere with Clerics, as they gain the ability to cast a great deal of cleric spells and some spells earlier than the norm. I *could* reduce their spell accessibility one level (so they gain 1st level spells at 3rd level, 2nd level spells at 7th, and so on), but not go too far.

As for the Smite, I recognize I missed that point where failing an attack doesn't expend your smite attempt. That should allow the Paladin a bit more power, as it would ensure its most important ability eventually lands. The rest is mostly build schematics (I find odd that a Paladin can't get enough attack bonus, even when stacking Strength and Charisma, to land a hit less than 50% of the time unless the dice roll below the average or the technique is pathetic). Damage definitely needs to be boosted a bit (I was considering 5+Paladin level extra damage, which would be significative), but between that and the ability to retain the smite on a failed attack roll, it should do well enough. I figure the issue is not "once a Paladin spends its smite, it becomes a Fighter without bonus feats"; it's rather "once a Paladin spends its smite, it becomes a Crusader without maneuvers" (they don't get the +1 to attack and damage rolls, but they do get the passive bonuses floating around).

Another choice would be to provide an extra bonus feat at 2nd level, keeping the progression of bonus feats intact, since apparently Diehard isn't enough of a bonus feat. That should expand the provided offensive choices, or give extra defensive choices (and since domain feats are open to selection, it grants stuff such as Travel Devotion or Trickery Devotion for Anarchs or Animal Devotion for those worshippers of Ehlonna).

Having offered that, I'd still like to see how more "offensive options" can be added without ending with 1st level spells at any moment lower than 3rd level or pseudomaneuvers (aside from Smite, which is a pseudomaneuver but one that stacks with level). I believe that the three modifications (bonus feat and Protector's Might at 2nd, Smite unexpended on a failed attack roll, lower accessibility to 1st and 2nd level spells by one level) should increase the offensive potential of the Paladin without having to resort to any more complex solutions.

[Groverfield]

It should be noted that paladins shouldn't be banned from necromancy, just most necromancy... as you'll note that you already have Death Ward on the spell list, plus the aura of courage (as not being a simple immunity) would likely now sport necromancy as a descriptor. Note Speak With The Dead might be befitting to add to the list, though by the time you could cast it, it would be a simple trick for any and all main casters

[T.G. Oskar]

It should be noted that paladins shouldn't be banned from necromancy, just most necromancy... as you'll note that you already have Death Ward on the spell list, plus the aura of courage (as not being a simple immunity) would likely now sport necromancy as a descriptor. Note Speak With The Dead might be befitting to add to the list, though by the time you could cast it, it would be a simple trick for any and all main casters

Well, the thing is that the few necromantic spells the Paladin can cast are easily placed on the Paladin spell list. Death Ward, being on the Paladin spell list, remains as it was originally on the spell list; likewise for Mark of Justice (being a ritualistic method of Bestow Curse). However, that was to make a blanket coverage of the few spells that would be odd for Paladins to have, such as:

• The Inflict Wounds line. Paladins do get a few attack spells this time such as Searing Light and Holy Smite, so they're not entirely removed from damage dealing spells, but the Inflict line of spells tends to have a strong evil flavor (if not entirely evil).
• Spells with the Evil, Death or Fear descriptor. Evil, of course, requires little explanation as to why not (Paladins are meant to be the GOOD guys...). Death, likewise, contains a few spells that are generally a bit nefarious, as they essentially end the life of an individual immediately, instead of providing a due chance at redemption. Fear spells, on the other hand, prey on the insecurities and the, well, fears of the targets, which would likewise seem wrong; a Paladin's resolve may shaken and even cause people to cower, but that's because they recognize the Paladin for what he or she is (and thus, it is their conscience causing them fear), but not deliberately causing them unwanted fear. Of course, you could give a proper explanation as to why a Paladin could get Death or Fear spells, but to retain flavor, it's better to keep them out.
• Between the Death, Fear and Evil spells, you can group the entirety of the spells of the school. The only other few would be spells that cause status effects (fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage/drain), which are likewise shunned by Paladins. Those that remain, though, are fair play as they're a more "positive" form of Necromancy, such as the ability to speak with the dead, or preserve their corpses for proper burial or resurrection, and so forth.

Still, good point on the Speak with Dead addition. I would also add Gentle Repose, as the effect is quite positive (you preserve the corpse, something that could be done as a form of respect to the fallen creature). I'd appreciate a list of which spells could fit that theme of "positive" necromancy, aside from the Necromancy spells the Paladin can already cast (which are essentially added in automatically), to see if they can be added and thus expand the spell list even further. This would serve as an expanded spell list covering stuff from Spell Compendium and latter splats, which may contain spells that aren't on the Paladin spell list but are still appropriate to consider.

I'm also considering allowing them access to the Sanctified spell list, but you still have to learn the spell you desire in order to use it. The sanctified spell list from BoED adds quite a bit of power to the Paladin, including a few needed attack spells (Lantern Light and Hammer of Retribution come to mind; I think there was a third one as well). Of course, that would be an optional rule, as most of the BoED has to be taken with a grain of salt because of the stringent requirements to use any of the material (basically, being far too good for the average adventurer).

[Groverfield]

The big one that I use as my usual "Necromancy is not evil" argument is a 6th level cleric/sorcerer/wizard spell "Undeath to death," which is one of those auto-kill spells, but works only on undead. Hard to explain any evil character resorting to this other than "emergency button incase my minions turn on me," and then even it's more of a sensible and self-preservation spell than an evil means to an end.

Arguably the necromancy spells focused on outright weakening opponents without negative energy or negative levels would be "untainted" necromancy, as it focuses on defeating enemies without killing them, but only if the effects are not permanent (so curses are ruled out.) Specifically noting Touch of Fatigue, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Enfeeblement (which cannot be used to kill, but can drop STR to 1 minimum,) but those are arcane spells, so they don't matter. I've also heard good arguments for inflict to not be anywhere near as evil as people assume.

From Core, the only one of such I'd say you want to add would be Speak with Dead and Gentle Riposte, as you suggested. All of the others that I was thinking of are either arcane, aren't Necromancy as I'd thought, or wouldn't be Paladin flavor outright. I've got a few projects to work on of my own at the moment, so it would be nice if someone else at least did a bit from the spell compendium.

[T.G. Oskar]

The big one that I use as my usual "Necromancy is not evil" argument is a 6th level cleric/sorcerer/wizard spell "Undeath to death," which is one of those auto-kill spells, but works only on undead. Hard to explain any evil character resorting to this other than "emergency button incase my minions turn on me," and then even it's more of a sensible and self-preservation spell than an evil means to an end.

Arguably the necromancy spells focused on outright weakening opponents without negative energy or negative levels would be "untainted" necromancy, as it focuses on defeating enemies without killing them, but only if the effects are not permanent (so curses are ruled out.) Specifically noting Touch of Fatigue, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Enfeeblement (which cannot be used to kill, but can drop STR to 1 minimum,) but those are arcane spells, so they don't matter. I've also heard good arguments for inflict to not be anywhere near as evil as people assume.

From Core, the only one of such I'd say you want to add would be Speak with Dead and Gentle Riposte, as you suggested. All of the others that I was thinking of are either arcane, aren't Necromancy as I'd thought, or wouldn't be Paladin flavor outright. I've got a few projects to work on of my own at the moment, so it would be nice if someone else at least did a bit from the spell compendium.

Well, I'm not closed to adding arcane spells (after all, the Paladin has Heroism and Good Hope in its class list, and that is an arcane spell), so Disrupt Undead could definitely count. I'm a bit iffy on Ray of Enfeeblement (it's a penalty, but as you mentioned it's not really a lethal penalty, it can make stronger enemies a bit less powerful and the Paladin has good BAB so there's a good chance it hits even with low Dex) and any spell in the fatigue line (including Touch of Fatigue), but there's little reason why it shouldn't appear. It would be perfect for a Blackguard, though, who does take advantage of causing enemies fatigue or outright delivering serious penalties, and I could see a Justiciar using them as well (Touch of Fatigue means they can't run, which makes them better for capture).

I don't mind "positive" or untainted Necromancy spells from the arcane spell list, but they should fit the theme of the Paladin. I could certainly see Halt Undead as part of the list as well, since it fits somewhat the same rationale as Undeath to Death (at best, an evil necromancer will use it to gather new people, but it is best used as an offensive spell against undead minions), and its between the sweet spot of spells (0-5, with level 5 spells counting as level 4 spells).

[T.G. Oskar]

Oh yeah, just a wee bit of a heads-up:

One thing I wanted to consider was that to increase the smite damage. Adding just 1 point of damage seems a bit weak. I made a tentative increase to 5+divine champion level, but that might be a bit strong at that level. Should I keep it at 5+class level, or lower it a bit to 3+class level? Smite needs a bit of a damage boost at lower levels. but a reasonable boost, which scales properly.

[T.G. Oskar]

Apparently I could manage to get another day of play, after two weeks when I couldn't because of hurricane (then tropical storm) Irene, and then because of problems with the power supply. This, of course, allowed me to test the changes to the Paladin, particularly offensively.

...Sadly enough, still not enough. The Fighter grossly outdamages him, but I blame that on the massive sheet of metal that weights 46 lbs. he wields (a Large Fullblade).

Basically, today was the "Night of Criticals". Of the few battles we had today, the Fighter did three successful critical hits out of four critical hits on all 8 attack rolls he had to do. All I can mention is that 120 points of damage through a critical is so not fair. Way too not fair.

The first battle was against four Huge monstrous crabs. The Paladin definitely continued with his missing hits even with a solid +17 maximum attack roll, if only because my attack rolls are abysmal. I believe the Paladin never rolled over 10. The one hit he managed to land was with the smite, which actually paralyzed the enemy in a single hit (too bad there was no coup de grace, tho). Going full Power Attack wasn't really a good idea, which could have added to the damage.

The next, of course, is the first time I send the group through an honest to goodness dungeon. The group was sent to find Cannith excoriates which are selling firearms (the group already has a cannon stored on their ship ready to give to their patron, but they're seeking the blueprints for the smaller handcannons), and are entering one of the few secret factories they have spread through the Lhazaar Principalities. Whether they find a blueprint or have to look on another place depends on luck. Though the idea is that the blueprints are divided in three parts, and are a bit more complex than they thought, so they need to cross three dungeons).
The second battle of the day was against three Destrachans. They made a combined sonic attack that everyone except the Paladin could pass, which with the Devotion aura took the Paladin right below the half HP mark (as he reduced all allies' sonic damage, with the Bard/Ranger/Rogue taking absolutely no damage thanks to Evasion). A chance to find if the Paladin could work much better was ruined by the double-kill from the Fighter with his damage overload (and his two criticals, mind you). It really hurts when the Fighter deals enough damage to cover twice the creatures' HP and then more.

The third battle, on the other hand, was just for the Warmage and the Warmage alone, as they faced a Black Pudding. Of course, the idea was to see if the Fighter was crazy enough to use his prized weapon on the ooze, which he didn't. Of course, the only thing the Paladin could use was his one and only Javelin of Lightning, which he reserved as the Warmage made short work of the pudding through a judicious use of Wall of Ice.

So, anything new with this? Well:

• No Power Attack until the Paladin has several points of attack bonus, or I get a better d20 (accepting donations of better, charged d20s or throwing techniques). With the Bard's song, the Paladin reached a very GOOD +17 attack bonus, which with the Haste bonus increased swiftly to +18, and he managed to land only ONE hit, becuase the attack rolls never went over 10, and usually were way below the required AC of 22. The one hit he managed to land was a smite.
• Yet, the damage was quite interesting. Of course, it's Improved Smite that did the work, but the Paladin finally did a respectable 35 points of damage (the maximum damage he could deal without Power Attack) on his one successful attack. Certainly that's because he should already have a +2 weapon. Being currently on a dungeon, the Warmage used a Greater Magic Weapon spell on him, so he finally has a (temporary) magic weapon.
• Vigor is formidable. With Cure Minor Wounds he could heal 15 points of damage per casting, and 2d8+14 through a Healing Belt. The group barely required HPs, but the Vigor bonus plus the few healing abilities the Paladin has make him a superb healer. I think I should do something regarding Lay on Hands, though, since he could easily stack the bonus really fast.
• The Paladin having Air Walk helped quite a lot, as he could cross through pits like nothing. The Fighter had to rely on jumping while the Paladin crossed with little trouble. Having Air Walk as a 2nd level spell for the Paladin and staying only 1-5 feet upwards really changes how he fights. He should get a way to cast spells swiftly other than Battle Blessing, because a swift-action Air Walk could help him float over the Warmage's webs and tentacles.

Fortunately, the group is planning to reunite at least twice per month, which is great, and the next few areas will be dungeons, so that means I can use lower CR monsters and several battles, which helps to test their endurance. The combination of Devotion and Vigor for the auras is helping a lot, as the Paladin absorbs quite a deal of the damage and then use his own resources to heal himself, further improving the distribution of damage.

I'll have to attempt next time leaving the Paladin's rolls to the players, if only because of the abysmal rolls. I find that most of the data I can gather is being contaminated by having such low rolls, so whatever contribution he could provide to the party is getting cut by the below-average rolls. Considering that while I constantly roll under 10 my players more often than not roll OVER 15, there seems to be a problem somewhere beyond the raw stats.

Hopefully the three dungeons should help quite a bit to test the Paladin's endurance. The Bard and the Warmage have expended far more things than the Fighter and the Paladin, but there are still a few battles forward, and I'll seek to find ways in which I can distract the Fighter in order to deal as little damage as possible.

As a few last comments: one, unlike what I heard before, Battle Blessing isn't really an overpowering feat choice on certain campaigns (mostly if you nova a lot, which may not give you the chance to use the Paladin's spells), and definitely I need to nerf a revision to Improved Critical a bit. About that latter point: increasing the critical damage multiplier is really a bad idea, at least as early as 8th level and specifically with a character optimized for battle.

[T.G. Oskar]

No game this week, too little activity...well, let's spice this up a bit, shall we?

Originally, I had no intention to change the Gray Guard. As far as I could see it, it worked right as intended; a Paladin that would do questionable acts in the name of good, while retaining a personal measure of honor to retain his ordinance. However, after watching a bit closer all the changes, I started to realize the Gray Guard as written wouldn't do. Furthermore, the term "Gray Guard" could work well for a Blackguard that acted within a mantle of honor and righteousness to commit evil acts as the inverse of the Paladin-oriented Gray Guard, so it gave options to expand. And finally, the idea that aside from the expansion of traits with the smite and lay on hands, the Gray Guard actually missed a few things. I distinctively realized this when I finished working on the Knight Hospitaller, as the Gray Guard's existing incarnation felt lacking after the extensive retooling of the "healer-type" PrC.

Thus, I made a few changes to the Gray Guard. Hope they are effective and liked by everybody.

--

GRAY GUARD

"Certainly, milord. The resistance has been dealt with, cleanly and efficiently. There shall be no opposition to your plans." -- Dalko Shavar, commander of the 3rd Legion of the Damned and leader of the Kaellesian Resistance Front, reporting to the Dread Emperor Nhavarash of the mock-battle in southern Kaelles.

Hit Die: d12.

Requirements
To qualify to become a gray guard, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any good or any evil
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Sense Motive 8 ranks
Special: Smite evil or smite good class ability
Special: Divine aura or fiendish aura class ability
Special: Lay on hands or vampiric touch class ability

Spoiler

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As you can see, only a paladin or a blackguard can enter the class, and specifically only one from Project Heretica.

In case you wish to use the modified Gray Guard but NOT the Project Heretica classes, you'll only need to qualify for the smite evil/smite good ability, and the divine grace/dark blessing class featurem as well as the alignment, BAB and skills requirements. It has a bit more requirements than the original, though.

Class Skills
The gray guard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex) and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Spoiler

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Riddle me this: if the class exists on a sourcebook that glorifies the acquisition of skills, why does the class lack a decent amount of skill points? 4+Int should be more than enough; it should cover for at least three skills if you lack Int, but you might have enough Intelligence to make up for it.

Furthermore, the skill list is kinda lacking. It has quite a few good skills (Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Sense Motive) but few others. This version adds Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (religion) (odd that it can't advance the required entry skill...), Perform and Profession. That's a huge list of skills, and some pretty good ones. It does lack Handle Animal, though, because you're a lieutenant and you let the lackeys handle the beasts.

{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting
1st|+1|

+2

|

+0

|

+2

|Gray touch, indiscriminating smite (similar alignment), tarnished aura|-
2nd|+2|

+3

|

+0

|

+3

|Cloak the true self, shadow spellcasting|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
3rd|+3|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

|Alignment uncertainty (Undetectable Alignment), bonus feat|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
4th|+4|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

|Indiscriminating smite (lawful or chaotic), unaligned spellcasting|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
5th|+5|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

|Alignment uncertainty (aligned items)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
6th|+6|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|Bonus feat, mettle|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
7th|+7|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|Alignment uncertainty (aligned spells), indiscriminating smite (all)|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
8th|+8|

+6

|

+2

|

+6

||+1 of existing divine spellcasting
9th|+9|

+6

|

+3

|

+6

|Alignment uncertainty (positive or negative energy), bonus feat|+1 of existing divine spellcasting
10th|+10|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

|Mask the true self, undying|+1 of existing divine spellcasting[/TABLE]

Class Features
The following are class features of the gray guard
Gray Touch (Su): Before becoming a member of the order, a gray guard acquired the ability to heal the wounds of others by touch, or to drain the vitality of his enemies. The order’s practices blend both disciplines into a single whole, allowing the gray guard to use his healing energy (or capability to drain vitality) in a strikingly different way. Upon entering the class, a good-aligned gray guard (and thus, a character that can use lay on hands) may choose to use his power offensively or to drain the vitality of his enemies, and an evil-aligned gray guard (and thus, a character that can use vampiric touch) may choose to use his power to heal wounds or to deal damage without healing itself. However, despite these new powers, most gray guards still have reserves to as to whom they will apply these powers into.
A good-aligned gray guard may spend points of his lay on hands ability to instead deal damage to opponents, on a 1 by 1 point basis. Alternatively, he may spend 10 points of his daily allotment to drain the vitality of enemies, as if using a vampiric touch spell, with a caster level of 1 plus 1 per every 6 points spent over the minimum amount (to a total of 54 points for caster level 10th). He may only harm or drain the vitality of evil enemies, but he may use his lay on hands ability on any creature. If using the vampiric touch effect, the Paladin may not recover the expended points from his pool until the next day (instead of at the beginning of the encounter, as usual).
An evil-aligned gray-guard may spend a daily use of his vampiric touch ability to either heal himself or inflict damage to a creature equal to 1d6 points per two class levels of the blackguard. He may only harm good-aligned living creatures or heal undead creatures when expending the daily use of his vampiric touch ability to inflict damage, and this damage is treated as negative energy damage.

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Since you need the Lay on Hands (or Vampiric Touch) ability to use it, this essentially adds some offensive power to the Paladin and some resilience to the blackguard.

The calculation for the exact amount of points of Lay on Hands should be pretty simple: for every 6 points you spend, your caster level increases by 1 (thus, 1 CL/6 points, and 9x6 equals 54, so you need 54 points to reach 10th level), so the expenditure of the healing pool has diminishing returns. This limits the uses of vampiric touch, since the way the Paladin recovers his healing pool would have made it far more powerful than that of the blackguard.

Indiscriminating Smite (Su): A gray guard has the power to smite his enemies and the enemies of his faith, but he knows that at times, it is best to use that incredible power on people that could be considered allies. A gray guard still holds a measure of his own faith and his own alignment around, but he learns to disassociate that from his smiting ability.
A gray guard stacks his levels in gray guard and the level that granted the smite ability for purposes of determining extra damage or the saving throw DC of his smite, but not to determine the progression of his smite (such as improved smite or devastating smite).
At 1st level, a good-aligned gray guard may smite good creatures as if they were evil creatures, but he deals only non-lethal damage. An evil-aligned gray guard may smite evil creatures as if they were good creatures. Lawful evil characters deal non-lethal damage to lawful evil creatures if they decide to use this ability against them.
At 4th level, a gray guard may smite creatures that are of either lawful or chaotic alignment, regardless of his own alignment, as if they were creatures of his opposed alignment. Lawful evil-aligned gray guards deal non-lethal damage to non-evil creatures that are also lawful. If the creature is of its extreme opposite alignment (for example, if a lawful good gray guard smites a chaotic evil character), the extra damage dealt by the smite is doubled.
At 7th level, a gray guard may smite any creature, regardless of alignment. As well, if it so decides, it may ignore the restrictions on lethal damage; thus, a lawful good gray guard may smite another lawful good creature and deal lethal damage. If the gray guard uses his smite ability as intended (for example, a good gray guard using smite evil against evil creatures), the extra damage dealt by the smite is doubled, and if the gray guard uses his smite ability against creatures of his extreme opposed alignment (for example, a lawful good gray guard using smite evil against a chaotic evil creature), the extra damage is instead tripled.

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The idea behind Indiscriminating Smite is not only the ability to open smiting to any creature, but also to reinforce a bit the goal of the PrC; while you're doing dubious acts in pursuit of your goals (ends justifying the means), you still have a clear goal and those who oppose it must fall. Thus, while you can expand your smiting in order to deal damage to creatures of your own alignment, if you face someone of the opposite alignment, you strike with greater force and thus you deal twice or thrice the damage.

Now, while you still can advance the damage and the DC of your smite, you can't advance the tier to which your smite belongs to.judging by the earliest entry point (7th level), that means you have access to, at most, Tier 2nd smite traits. 10th level, the proper entry point, allows at least a Tier 2nd smite and a Tier 1st secondary smite, but still gets no further advancement. The idea is twofold; the first is to keep the main benefit of the divine champions in the class chassis themselves, so that you lose something while acquiring something else, and the other is that Indiscriminating Smite exists as a sort of smite-tier of its own (the 1st tier allows you to strike your own alignment, the 2nd tier allows striking lawful or chaotic creatures and doubles the damage to extremely opposed alignment, the 3rd tier allows you to smite anything and triples the damage against your opposed alignment). Thus, advancing the rider effects of the smites would have been far too much.

Tarnished Aura (Su): A gray guard is bestowed an aura of divinity by his deity, or by a representative of the powers and alignment he serves. As he delves into the philosophy of the gray guard order, he learns to manifest auras of traits questionable to his own, manifested by tapping into the very essence that comprises the power of those auras and using them for purposes opposed of their own. Thus, their aura potential weakens, but they gain greater flexibility on their choices.
Half of the levels in gray guard (rounded up) stack with levels in either paladin or blackguard to determine the accessibility and range of his auras (thus, a 7th level paladin/4th level gray guard is treated as if having 9 levels of paladin, increasing the range of his divine aura by 15 feet and granting a new aura). When the gray guard gains a new aura, he may choose from either the list of divine auras given to the paladin or the fiendish auras given to the blackguard, but his effective Charisma to determine the benefit of these auras is reduced by 4.

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...while they don't advance their smites, they retain advancing their auras. Gray Guards, if you notice, mostly work in positions of relative importance (as the Dragon, for example, or the nefarious advisor of the good king), and thus they gain some advancement of their auras.

Regarding Divine Punishment/Divine Deterrence and Necrotic Punishment/Fiendish Absorption: while you advance the abilities if you have them, you can't gain the latter (either Divine Deterrence or Fiendish Absorption) unless you return to the class. The traits of the "super-auras" you already possess stacks up as indicated above; you simply can't gain the other "super-aura" just as easily, even if you would already have the effective class level to acquire it, unless you have the actual class levels for it.

Cloak the True Self (Ex): At 2nd level, the gray guard learns the tactics to fool people into believing him a great hero, or to fool villains into thinking in him as the perfect lieutenant. He gains a bonus equal to half his class level in Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate and Sense Motive checks.

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Simple yet useful bonus. At 10th level, that's a +5 to Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate and Sense Motive. Why not Diplomacy? Well, that's in order to prevent Diplomancy, and because a diplomat may not be always honest, but it attempts to do so, which goes a bit counter to cloaking your true intentions (which is closer to Bluff). In any case, it's because adding more bonuses to Diplomacy can be pretty painful, while Bluff can be controlled somewhat (and the more Intimidate, the better).

Shadow Spellcasting (Sp): At 2nd level, the gray guard learns to befriend the shadows, thus allowing him to use the light to his benefit or embrace the darkness to deliver grim justice. A paladin that reaches this level may cast spells with the darkness descriptor, while a blackguard that reaches this level may cast spells with the light descriptor. As well, he adds the following spells to his spell list, regardless of whether he was a paladin or a blackguard:
1st —blur, misdirection, silent image
2nd—invisibility, minor image
3rd—major image, mirror image
4th—false vision, persistent image, shadow evocation
If using mysteries (see Shadow Magic, in the Tome of Magic supplement), the gray guard may instead replace any spell from the list presented above with a mystery of the same level or lower. He casts this mystery as if it were a divine spell (thus, he may cast it on armor without any chance of spell failure). If he chooses a mystery of a lower level to be applied as if it were a higher level (thus, if he, for example, replaces false vision for the flesh fails 2nd level mystery), he treats the spell as if heightened to that level (thus, he treats the flesh fails 2nd level mystery as a 4th level divine spell). He must make this choice at the moment he gains access (if he does) to spells of the indicated level; once the choice is made, it is permanent and may not be changed.

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In order to assist the grim work of the Gray Guard (good or bad), the PrC grants access to a small, but considerably GOOD spell list. Just Blur, Mirror Image and even Shadow Evocation are good enough; if you're savvy enough you can make excellent work of the Image spells as well, and the rest are just icing in the cake.

However, there's just ONE more bone thrown around. Essentially, you can tweak your acquired spells so that you can get mysteries instead. Thus, the spells acquired potentially increase in power, providing even more boons to the class. You can only get up to 4th level mysteries (if you choose to replace any of the indicated spells) Being spontaneous spellcasters, this is a HUGE increase in the flexibility of the character, and a solid boost in power (or defense, mostly), especially if you're an expert at using mysteries. The fact that you can use a 1st level mystery as a 4th level spell and add your Charisma instead of your Intelligence makes the mystery a bit more attractive.

Alignment Uncertainty (Su): A gray guard is sure of his own alignment. A good gray guard serves justice, while an evil gray guard serves only himself. However, the principles of the order of the gray guards indicate that good does not necessarily has to be innocent, nor that evil cannot hide upon a mask of mercy and altruism; only the intention of the individual matters. Thus, while a gray guard is certain of his own beliefs, it is the world that cannot be certain of his intentions. This serves the gray guard, as it fits the nature of his work.
At 3rd level, a gray guard is under the effect of a permanent undetectable alignment spell with a caster level equal to the gray guard’s character level. The gray guard may suppress the effect of this ability or reactivate it as a swift action.
At 5th level, so as long as he has the benefit of undetectable alignment active, the gray guard may use items meant for creatures of his opposite alignment (evil items if good, good items if evil) without gaining negative levels. As well, if an item affects only creatures of the alignment opposite of the gray guard, the gray guard may ignore the effect of the spell.
At 7th level, so as long as he has the benefit of undetectable alignment active, the gray guard is treated as a creature of his own alignment and/or the alignment opposed to his (good and evil only) to determine the effects of a spell if it benefits him, and may ignore the effects if it affects him negatively. Thus, a good gray guard ignores the effects of an unholy blight spell and ignores the deflection bonus and damage reduction provided by a protection against good spell when attacking a creature protected by it.
At 9th level, so as long as he has the benefit of undetectable alignment active, the gray guard is treated as both a living creature and as an undead for purposes of determining the effects of a spell or ability whenever it benefits them. Thus, a good-aligned gray guard heals when affected by an inflict critical wounds spell, but does not take penalties if under a consecrated area.

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A clever way to grant a few immunities and benefits at the same time. If you're gonna infiltrate into the lair of the villain, the last thing you want is to have your cover blown. Hence, you gain a permanent Undetectable Alignment effect, so that while it'll be hard to pin down your actual alignment, you can certainly bluff them that you're hardcore, baby-eating evil (or saintly good and smelling of roses, if you're a blackguard).

The 5th level and 7th level benefits are extremely good, as well. Essentially, you can use an unholy weapon with little to no problem, and then change into your holy weapon when necessary. Or, gain the benefit of a Book of Vile Darkness while secretly serving Heironeous.

However, the one ability you'll be barking me madly against is the 9th level ability. Basically, you are treated as an undead while being good, and you can heal from Inflict spells as if you were one, as well as probably taking benefits from being on a desecrated area or, worse, using a Profane weapon without penalty (or having Undead Torch cast upon you). This is excellent if you're on the higher echelons of minion-hood, where you're the commander of the legions of the damned under the command of a brutal demilich, and all of a sudden you politely ask the dying paladin to use the Holy Avenger he was wielding and betray the evil overlord in the midst of the battle, all while giving him the finger with your shield-hand. It's a great boon if you're serving an undead overlord, and this allows you to fight fairly on places where the other would have the advantage (such as...I dunno, the Negative Energy Plane?). This also implies quasi-immunity to energy drain, because most of the spells that drain levels provide temporary HP to the undead, which means you actually gain temporary hit points while neglecting the loss of levels.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, and every three levels after that, a gray guard gains a bonus feat in addition to those he obtains by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, divine feats or domain feats. A gray guard must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a gray guard is considered to have a fighter level equal to his class level, plus his effective fighter levels from paladin or blackguard, plus any other effective fighter levels.

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The Gray Guard is first and foremost a warrior, so they need bonus feats. They actually get bonus feats a bit faster, and may even get an extra bonus feat on the way to 10th level if timed correctly).

Regarding the effective Fighter levels; if you're a Gray Guard coming from a straight Paladin, you'd essentially have the same EFL as a Paladin of the same level, since the lowest possible amount of effective Fighter levels you can get from classes that advance Fighter levels is 16 (of course, if ALL classes advance Fighter levels). Right now, this may only work for feats such as Weapon Specialization and whatnot, but if you've followed the playtest bulletins, I've been testing a revision of feats that include advancing feat benefits and extra benefits from feats based on your effective Fighter level. This is why you'll be seeing this a lot whenever a martial class has effective Fighter levels. At the very least, you get 2-4 extra points of damage from two more feats.

Unaligned Spellcasting (Sp): At 4th level, a gray guard learns to tap even further into the powers of the alignment opposing his own, becoming capable of using spells that were formerly restricted to him. Although this bears the chance of tainting the good heart, or redeeming the evil heart, the gray guard seeks to advance his ends even if the spell is hideous to behold. A good-aligned gray guard becomes capable of casting evil spells and spells of the necromancy descriptor (except for spells that create undead), while an evil-aligned gray guard becomes capable of casting good spells.

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Yep, even more benefits. Basically, the Paladin gains the ability to cast Death Knell while the Blackguard gains the ability to cast...well, I dunno, something good. Let's say Magic Circle against Evil just in case.

However, there are TWO clear restrictions. A Blackguard/Gray Guard with the Intuition ACF may NEVER cast Sanctified spells (remember that you can prepare spells through that ACF, hence you would qualify, except that sanctified spells require you to be more than good, and actually EXALTED), and a Paladin/Gray Guard may never cast Vile spells. Other spells with alignments are fair game.

Mettle (Ex): At 6th level, a gray guard gains the mettle ability. If he has already the mettle ability, he gains improved mettle instead.

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Obviously, if you have Lay on Hands, you DEFINITELY have mettle, so you'll be getting Improved Mettle. However, in case you get Lay on Hands through a distinctively different mean, you can get mettle as usual.

Undying (Ex): At 10th level, a gray guard becomes capable of fighting even when his forces fail him, beyond where others could stand. A gray guard is never considered disabled or staggered, even if he has less than 0 hit points or his nonlethal damage exceeds his current hit point total. Furthermore, he may continue to fight even if he has less than -10 hit points, but only to an amount of negative hit points equal to 10 plus half his character level plus his Constitution modifier. Instant death effects and attacks that destroy the body still affect the gray guard if successful.

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Yep, at 10th level, the Gray Guard gets what the Paladin could have gained 2 levels before (or the Blackguard, mind you). The ability makes sense in various ways, mostly the idea that you're relentless in your pursuit of justice (or injustice) and that you're the kind of lieutenant (or marshal) that is really tough to kill. But, what if you get betrayed and struck almost to death? Well, you can prove them wrong, resisting the blow and surviving for another day. Nothing says "evil son of..." than a person that refuses to die, and this is excellent for that.

Mask the True Self (Su): At 10th level, a gray guard learns to fool the most discriminating of the creatures; the very outsiders aligned to good and evil. He transcends beyond good and evil, and learns an ability to assume the identity of those outsiders reliably enough to hide in their very domains until the time is ripe for attacking. The gray guard is forevermore treated as a native outsider (unless he is already treated as one), and gains the shapechanger subtype and the alignment subtype related to his own (good for good creatures, or evil for evil creatures).
As well, he may assume the shape (but not the intrinsic physical characteristics) of outsiders in order to blend with them. Treat this as if using the alter self spell, except the gray guard only assumes the shape and general traits of an angel, an archon, a guardinal, an eladrin, a devil (baatezu or otherwise), a yugoloth, or a demon (be it tanar’ri, loumara, obyrith or otherwise) and may assume the form of a creature whose hit dice is equal or lower than that of the gray guard. He is treated as native to the plane of the outsider type he assumes the shape of and replaces his alignment subtype for the racial and alignment subtypes of the outsider (thus, if a lawful good gray guard assumes the form of an erinyes, he gains the lawful, evil and baatezu subtypes, temporarily suppresses his own good subtype, and is treated as a native of the Nine Hells and of the Material Plane). However, he does not gain the physical abilities of the form, such as the creatures ability scores, movement types, senses, natural attacks or extraordinary special qualities unless he has them already. The gray guard may not assume the form of a creature of two sizes larger or smaller than its own, but it gains the benefits of increased (or decreased) size.

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The capstone allows you to fool even the outsiders themselves. Basically, it's similar as what a Paladin (or Blackguard) would get at 20th level, except that they get a nifty Alter Self-esque ability to assume the form of a lower demon and infiltrate in the echelons of the Lower (or Upper) Planes without being caught. However, you don't get the benefits from transforming (aside from the size increase, since that is essentially a question of the actual size you assume). Thus, a female human paladin trying to fool a male overlord may assume the form of a succubus, but she cannot use the racial traits of the creature (she can, though, fool the overlord into believing that her true form is her disguised form and viceversa, and use her spells to further deception). This is mostly so that you may not use the form as an actual combat benefit (unless you assume a creature of a size larger or shorter), but rather keep it for deceptive purposes.

--

Besides this, I want to make a few other comments. There are two more PrCs after this one (Hunter of the Dead and Knight of the Chalice) that have been retooled, and afterwards there are two things I'd like to add to bring the project to a concluded state. These two things are:

• Magic Items for Divine Champions

This includes retooled versions of the Holy Avenger and other weapons from earlier versions of D&D, which are far more powerful than the norm. Each has a special series of traits that make them different, and far more powerful, than the typical Avenger. There is also a series of armor suits that scale just like the Avengers (and that originally appeared in Dragon magazine), and perhaps one or two extra items. The last item may probably be the shield of Prator/shield of the sun, the artifact shield that grants Paladin spellcasting and other benefits.

• "But all I want is to play a Paladin, not a new class! This retooling is too much! I want a fix, not a total remake!"

Basically, this is an addendum for those people who want to play the Paladin, the Blackguard, and the PrCs with as few changes as possible. These are fixes that I believe are good enough, without really delving into actual homebrewing, that should bring the Paladin one step closer to Tier 3/4 without going in-depth. These include slight modifications to the Paladin class, the Blackguard and Holy Liberator PrCs, other paladin-related PrCs, and even the Prestige Paladin PrC (in case you believe the Paladin class should have been a PrC in the first place). These modifications are to be presented in a modular way, in which you may patch the original classes at your discretion, with explanations of why this should be done, and even modifications done to the Divine Champions retrofit to their 3.5 incarnations. The main idea is that people get intimidated with my work, so I present a "lite" alternative that introduces the advancements of Project Heretica to those who wouldn't otherwise use the 'brewed classes because they are allergic to homebrewing.

TL;DR - the "backwards compatibility" mode of Project Heretica.

Afterwards, I intend to keep the thread active in case you want to see other PrCs modified, as well as requests for unique homebrew related to the Divine Champions (such as new feats, new ACFs or new items). The Project will be essentially concluded, but it may still be modified if an ability is too weak, too strong, or too confusing.

Having said that; questions? Comments? Should I make the addendum out of order for the benefit of everyone, or keep the order as mentioned? Remember that each part of Project Heretica can be accessed through the front page, so it CAN be slightly out of order.

[Cieyrin]

Hmm, a Grey Guard who is actually grey from both directions; nifty. Since your retool doesn't really involve codes that the original Grey Guard was to loosen, it's neat to see a suitable replacement that has the spirit and has power to go with it.

Also looking forward to the Holy Avenger, as well as possibly the Sunblade, among other things. While many of us just use the EtCR version for a cheap heavy finesse weapon, seeing it properly strong for its price would also be good.

[T.G. Oskar]

Hmm, a Grey Guard who is actually grey from both directions; nifty. Since your retool doesn't really involve codes that the original Grey Guard was to loosen, it's neat to see a suitable replacement that has the spirit and has power to go with it.

That wasn't the original intention, but the more I saw the Gray Guard, the more I noticed that what it had originally wasn't enough to keep it as intended, so it was fit for a change. Thus, I went with the "gray in both ways", where you could be the Paladin in tarnished armor that worked for the enemy to undermine them, or the Blackguard that leads the armies of Light as if it were its own personal army.

Also looking forward to the Holy Avenger, as well as possibly the Sunblade, among other things. While many of us just use the EtCR version for a cheap heavy finesse weapon, seeing it properly strong for its price would also be good.

The Holy Avenger (or rather, the Divine Avenger) is pretty interesting. To explain the differences:

• Holy Avenger can be either a +2 cold iron longsword or a +5 holy cold iron longsword. The Divine Avenger starts as a regular weapon, but in the hands of a divine champion is a holy/unholy/axiomatic/anarchic metalline weapon (not necessarily a longsword) with a scaling enhancement bonus.
• Both weapons have the Magic Circle effect, but the revised one has a MC effect based on its alignment.
• The Holy Avenger has the Greater Dispel Magic at will; the Divine Avenger doesn't. There's another Avenger weapon that has it, though (one meant for witch slayers).
• The Holy Avenger can be used only by the Paladin; the Divine Avenger can be used by all divine champions.
• The Holy Avenger is extremely expensive (over 120,000 gp). The Divine Avenger has less than half that price (only 57,600 gp), but isn't meant to be bought OR sold.
• The Holy Avenger has a maximum enhancement bonus of +5. At epic levels, the Divine Avenger becomes likewise an epic weapon (+6 or higher).

That's not the only Avenger, but it's the basic one.

As for the Sun Blade, I actually missed that one, but if done using the avenger rules, it might be a bit more expensive and perhaps a bit more powerful than the norm. I'm not sure if I should make it an Avenger weapon or if I just should make it slightly better but focused on the same price.

--

Anyways, due to one of my players having no classes at college (a local event that happened over 120-150 years ago that the college celebrates as a holiday), we managed to play once more.

This time, I made a slight change. That player, whom plays the Fighter, made the attack rolls for the Paladin I use as a DMPC, while I made the attack rolls for his Fighter. Everything else (saving throws, skill checks, damage rolls) were done by the respective players (the Fighter's player for the Fighter, I for the Paladin DMPC). We had only two battles (and two nice puzzles), but I got some nice data.

The first battle really didn't deliver decent data, as it was part of the DMG II compound traps (a CR 7 fire summoning trap), but the Fighter was slightly less lethal than before, as the attack rolls were predictably low (one hit and one miss) but he still managed to make a one-hit kill.

The second battle, however, delivered nice results. The group was resting on a refreshment stand (a puzzle on its own), and they had to pay the tab...fighting a flesh golem. The Fighter, believing he could make a decent hit, rushed towards the golem and failed his two attacks, because he decided to lower his BAB through Power Attack (as befitting his usual tactic). The Paladin, however, did a surprising amount of damage as the Fighter's player rolled one of his usual 20s for the Paladin.

The nice result I saw was because of the end result. For starters, the Paladin also used Power Attack, and had the Bard's Inspire Courage bonus on his attack. With his bonus to Charisma, a temporary +2 enhancement bonus on his weapon (thanks to the Warmage's Greater Magic Weapon spell; remember I'm using the Retooled Warmage as a playtest), and even with his expenditure of full BAB he had a +14 on his attack bonus; that means he needed only a 4 on the roll to hit. However, having the 20 AND the Power Attack damage bonus (plus Charisma AND the song AND the enhancement bonus) on a charge (which is ruled to add its attack bonus to its damage after a few effective Fighter levels), he had +21 to damage (without the smite). He rolled maximum damage, so he did a solid 29 points of damage with a battleaxe. If the golem wasn't immune to critical hits, the Paladin would have dealt 87 points of damage on a single hit. Even with the rules on damage reduction (the flesh golem has a DR 4/adamantine, which reduces up to 20% of the maximum damage with a minimum of 4 points), it would have dealt almost 70 points of damage on a single blow. The Paladin that could barely hit the broad side of a barn was merely at 1 HP from finishing the flesh golem (the golem was softened first by a solid Ray of Deanimation from the Warmage, whom gained it through Advanced Learning). The Fighter finished the golem (as usual), but he had to resort to use Power Attack partially in order to succeed on a hit.

There was a third battle, of course, but I expected them to be scared to death; I would have been surprised if the group didn't surrender against 10 iron golems and a chamber that filled with water. The Fighter was a bit worried when his attack of opportunity (using his weapon of legacy) failed against an AC of 30 because he couldn't make the roll on his own. Of course, I made it so that they simply couldn't win the battle (I mean, TEN iron golems, AND the chamber was filling with water?), so I couldn't get more data on a high AC, high DR character.

So, what data can we gather from that?

• I can be a sick DM at times. However, it would have been fun to see if they could fight well against an Iron Golem, which has a CR of 4 higher than the entire group.
• When the Fighter doesn't have the devil's luck with his rolls, his damage potential reduces considerably. Even with Improved Critical making his fullblade threaten a crit at a range of 17-20, having generally low rolls can be a devastating blow to his damage potential.
• Conversely, this was the first time the Paladin did respectable damage WITHOUT his smite. Adding his smite damage (thanks to Improved Smite, he could smite the golem), he would have added between 14-17 extra points of damage, which could have on a lucky crit dealt nearly 135 points of damage. That he could do a respectable 24 (after damage reduction applied) to an enemy with DR and immunity to crits, knowing he has enough attack bonus to bypass the creature's AC, makes a difference.
• The delay of Divine Grace hurts a lot. A typical Paladin wouldn't have had troubles crossing the fire summoning trap (which had a series of seven flame torrents) because of the added Charisma to saves. The low Dex of the Paladin (Dex 9) combined with his poor base Reflex saves made him miss quite a bit of the saves. If it weren't because of the Mass Resist Energy spell used by the Warmage, he would have taken quite a bit of damage.
• I definitely need to plan a better dungeon. While I (and apparently my players) loved the puzzles presented, there were far too little battles to really make a difference.

Currently, the group is going to check one last dungeon before making a lengthy travel through sea into Sharn, having partly completed their mission. The group has found some crafters that make firearms (and saw the firearms in action), and are taking them away from their employers (after a nasty reality check in which the Paladin, with permission of the players, made an extremely harsh remark against the crafters). What I plan is that the dungeon has several battles (at least 3-4 battles per actual game day) and lasts long enough to drain the resources of the party long enough. The Paladin wasted only four of his 10 spells (2 Cure Minor Wounds, 1 Shield of Faith, 1 Air Walk) and the Warmage only consumed 11 of her 38 daily spells (with Prying Eyes, Greater Magic Weapon, Mass Resist Energy, Telepathic Bond and Keen Edge as buffs and various attack spells), so on a single dungeon with around four total battles the group wasn't really challenged enough (they used only 30%-40% of their spells, hardly a noticeable expenditure of spells). The Paladin also lacked what few other options he could use (Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered, Crusader's Strike) because of the creatures attacked (mostly constructs), but he finally made good use of Power Attack.

Thus, the few petitions I make are as follows: know of any good subterranean vault dungeon that could challenge my party reasonably? I'd like to have about 6-10 total battles, with a total of 3-4 battles per day so that the party is reasonably challenged, as well as a few traps (and maybe one or two puzzles), but mostly so that the party has to depend again on long buffs (those that last more than 10 minutes per caster level). I'd also need to find a good feat for the Paladin for 10th level, and what secondary smite option would be nice to use (Resounding? Blinding? Charging?).

[Cieyrin]

Resounding sounds like good fun to me. Not sure on the feat as I don't know what you have besides Power Attack, Imperious Command and I assume Martial Maneuver(Crusader's Strike). I've always been a fan of Combat Brute, as well as Intimidating Strike is kinda neat. Awesome Smite could be all kinds of amazing, as could Smiting Power and Strength of Conviction. If you want to pursue Initiating, Devoted Bulwark and Faith Unswerving could also be good paths.

[T.G. Oskar]

Resounding sounds like good fun to me. Not sure on the feat as I don't know what you have besides Power Attack, Imperious Command and I assume Martial Maneuver(Crusader's Strike). I've always been a fan of Combat Brute, as well as Intimidating Strike is kinda neat. Awesome Smite could be all kinds of amazing, as could Smiting Power and Strength of Conviction. If you want to pursue Initiating, Devoted Bulwark and Faith Unswerving could also be good paths.

What I got for the DMPC, as well as the alterations currently applied (since I'm also testing for changes to feats):

• Least Dragonmark of Sentinel - this one is mostly for flavor, since the character is meant to be a mid-ranking officer of House Deneith. No changes.
• Shield Specialization (Tower Shield) - since the character uses a tower shield, to increase its effectiveness (and also for eventual Shield Ward). The feat now grants an increase to max Dex penalty, lowered armor check penalty and armor spell failure. At 10th level it also provides DR.
• Shieldmate - changed into a small buff that grants a +2 shield bonus to AC to all allies within 10 ft. At 10th level it should grant a +3 bonus to AC instead. The Paladin doesn't share that benefit (because he's using the shield, after all).
• Martial Study (Crusader's Strike) - in case they need a bit of healing in a pinch. So far it hasn't been needed because battles end quite easily.
• Power Attack - when I made the change that granted Divine Champions a bonus feat at 2nd level, I added this. At 10th level it allows adding 1.5 times your Strength bonus on each attack.
• Improved Smiting - changed so that it allows smiting neutral creatures, as well as doubling the effect of the smite when striking evil creatures.
• Imperious Command - no change.

As for the choice of feats, I'm currently looking for ways to deal a bit extra damage and/or expand the options on combat (or outside of it). The dabbling in initiation was mostly to spice things up a bit, but that would be as most I'd dabble in, since I'd need another Martial Study and Devoted Bulwark for Faith Unswerving (though the tricks aren't so bad). Combat Brute requires Improved Sunder, which means not until 12th level. Given the changes to Improved Smite and what I usually launch at my players (Good characters are usually defused through Diplomacy), Strength of Conviction isn't necessary. As for the rest...

Improved Sunder could be a nice choice, but I need to deal with some issues regarding the maneuver. When the Fighter tested for me some of the changes, it wasn't really pretty what happened (the Fighter tried to sunder the unarmed strike of a kuo-toa monk, and it...ended up as a touch attack that dealt damage, so it wasn't really pretty). I would oddly consider it, since the Paladin can make full attacks as standard actions (as well as the Fighter), so he could make a sunder and then make a secondary attack.

Smiting Power is also interesting, considering the changes to overrun. However, there's a slight problem with how smite and overrun would blend: overrun is no longer a standard action, but an action you can make as part of your movement, or part of a charge; meanwhile, smite is activated as part of any melee attack but only once per round.

Seeing how things are going, I'll probably use Awesome Smite. Even though the effect only works when smiting, the increased chances of smiting make it appropriate (especially Overwhelming Smite). It would also work well with Resounding, though not sure how it would work with Tier 2 of the Resounding Smite (if I manage ever to get to that level). I would have gone with Agile Shield Fighter if it weren't because I'm using a tower shield, since the changes to Improved Shield Bash and Agile Shield Fighter make it more than worthwhile (and would have made for a superb shield build).

[T.G. Oskar]

Barring any problems with my health, or unexpected changes, my players and I should have another game on Saturday, and soon we'll have 10th level (and something I wanted to see; the improvements to some of the Paladin's feats). I'll make a slight change on its spellcasting (because they can change spells 1/week, I'll exchange a spell I rarely use from his 1st level spells into either Deafening Clang or Divine Sacrifice, quite probably the former because it's a swift action spell).

Also, because one of my players asked for it (the Fighter, actually); 10th level feat will be Battle Blessing. And eagerly awaiting for 11th level; I spoke with my Fighter player about the 3rd level spells he'll probably choose and he was kinda fuming. Girallon's Blessing FTW!

But, I'm not speaking about this. It's been a bit long since I posted another PrC, and with the Gray Guard released, next in line is...

THE HUNTER OF THE DEAD
(No pic yet, but tempted to add either the guy from the cover of Complete Warrior or Hugh Jackman as Van Helsing)

"In the name of the Bright One, may those bodies defiled into cruel service return to their home in the land! Let those impure souls face the wrath of the Sun!" --typical prayer uttered by the Scarred Knights of the Rising Dawn, an order of hunters of the dead following Pelor, the god of the sun.

Hit Die: d10.

Requirements
To qualify to become a hunter of the dead, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any non-evil
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks
Feats: Track
Special: Able to turn undead
Special: The character must have had a level or ability score drained by an undead creature of Challenge Rating equal to the character’s level -2 or higher. The level loss or ability score loss can be later offset by magic.

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Bit demanding requirements, no?

The Track feat requirement is mostly flavor, but there's an ability that does grant you better tracking of undead, and a hunter of the dead should be able to masterfully pursue his or her undying quarry, no? The Knowledge (religion) requirement is a bit more stringent, raised three points higher. Otherwise, this is exactly the same set of requirements as the original Hunter of the Dead. Yet, they look quite a lot, no?

Class Skills
The hunter of the dead class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis) and Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

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One of the things that the Hunter of the Dead lacked was a real skill set that reinforced its hunting skills. Gather Information is a necessity to, well, gather clues about where undead may be located, and then find the right track. Survival is meant to allow you to track better (albeit it won't be too necessary, it will be useful for most other tracking necessities), Listen and Spot to tag the quarry, and Intimidate...just for kicks. Oh, and Search to...well, look out for clues and traps. Quite a complete skill list, a nice upgrade from the original.

{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|

Fort Save

|

Ref Save

|

Will Save

|Special|Spells per Day
1st|+1|

+2

|

+0

|

+2

|Detect undead, hunter spells, smite undead 1/encounter, turn undead|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
2nd|+2|

+3

|

+0

|

+3

|Favored enemy (undead) +2, spurn death's touch|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
3rd|+3|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

|Improved turning +1, track undead|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
4th|+4|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

|Lesser restoration|See text
5th|+5|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

|Favored enemy (undead) +4, improved smite undead, smite undead 2/encounter|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
6th|+6|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|Improved turning +2, seal of bodily purity|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
7th|+7|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|Restoration|See text
8th|+8|

+6

|

+2

|

+6

|Favored enemy (undead) +6|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
9th|+9|

+6

|

+3

|

+6

|Greater smite undead, improved turning +3|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text
10th|+10|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

|Death ward, greater restoration, smite undead 3/encounter|+1 of existing divine spellcasting ability/see text[/TABLE]

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As you'll notice, the Hunter of the Dead combines stuff from the Paladin and the Ranger, allowing you to deal insurmountable amounts of damage to them.

Some of the main changes, which will be explained later in detail, are the replacement of the fixed spellcasting ability of the PrC to a spellcasting ability increase, with a twist. The class offers better Will saves, and a 8/10ths progression which is considerate enough (could easily be a 7/10ths progression because having Greater Restoration as a spell-like ability really abuses). It loses Positive Energy Burst, though, which was one of the nicest abilities they could have. Then again, that 8th level seems a bit too empty...

Class Features
The following are class features of the hunter of the dead
Spells per Day: At every level except 4th and 7th, a hunter of the dead gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a hunter of the dead, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day. If the hunter of the dead has levels in paladin or ranger, the caster level for those spells is equal to his hunter of the dead class levels plus half his paladin or ranger levels (including 4th and 7th level, unlike other divine spellcasters).
If the hunter of the dead has no levels in a divine spellcasting class, he is treated as having the spellcasting ability of a 5th level paladin. The caster level for spells casted by the hunter of the dead by means of the class is equal to his class level.

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Note: if using the Paladin (or the Paladin variants) from Project Heretica, ignore the mention of half caster level for these classes; such Paladins progress their caster level every class level.

As you can see, the class is meant for not only Paladins, but Rangers, Clerics, and even the oddball Fighter that somehow got the ability to turn undead. There are a few ways to acquire it and still be unable to cast spells, so there's a safety measure for that (hence, why it doesn't require you to cast spells).

If you have no spellcasting ability, you get the ability to cast as a 5th level Paladin. This is left ambiguous, in case you don't wish to use the Project Heretica classes, but what it DOES mean is that you'll be able to cast 1st level spells right from the get-go. If you learn how to cast spells that way, then that means all your classes grant spellcasting ability, essentially leaving you with the ability to cast as a 14th level paladin right at the end. Thus, if a Fighter enters Hunter of the Dead after acquiring the ability to turn undead, the Fighter gains free spellcasting ability, so as long as it has the right amount of Charisma (or Wisdom, if you consider the core Paladin). Other classes, including Paladins themselves, progress at 8/10ths of their usual.

As for the little quip, what it means is that Paladins and Rangers get full caster level if they are based on the retooled versions, or full class level + half their class levels if using Core. Thus, a 10th level Paladin/10th level Hunter of the Dead would have a caster level of 20 (if using Project Heretica) or 15 (if using Core). Hence, ignore the quip about half-caster levels.

Detect Undead (Su): A hunter of the dead gains the ability to use detect undead at will as if casting the spell of the same name, except he may activate this ability as a swift action.

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While the Project Heretica Paladin loses the ability to sense evil, the Hunter of the Dead DOES need the ability to sense the undead when they get near. Hence, being a prestige class, this minor ability is allowed. Making it a swift action causes the Hunter of the Dead to utter that ominous message; "...they're getting closer...", and everyone suddenly jumps into combat. It makes the ability far more useful than usual.

Hunter Spells (Sp): A hunter of the dead adds the following spells to a single spell list of his choice when taking the first level in the class. The spells are treated as divine spells, using the same ability score modifier, spell slots and caster level as the divine spellcasting class which the hunter of the dead possessed. If the hunter of the dead has any of the spells on his spell list, reduce the spell to the lowest spell level amongst the two per each instance of repeated spell.
1st—bless water, chill touch, cure light wounds, hide from undead, magic weapon, remove fear
2nd—aid, bull’s strength, cure moderate wounds, continual flame, darkvision, eagle’s splendor, owl’s wisdom, remove paralysis
3rd—cure serious wounds, daylight, halt undead, protection from elements, remove disease, searing light, speak with dead
4th—cure critical wounds, death ward, disrupting weapon, freedom of movement

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Wow, the Hunter of the Dead gets all those free spells? Dang!

Ironically enough, the Hunter of the Dead GETS all these spells on their original spell lists. Well, most of them, that is (they don't get Aid, nor Bless Water, nor Chill Touch...you get the idea). If you're a Hunter of the Dead that lacked spellcasting ability, you get to add all these spells for free alongside the spells the Paladin gets. Some, of course, are repeated (Paladins get four of the seven free 1st level spells, four of the eight free 2nd level spells at their level and one more at a higher level, and so on), but in case the repeated spell is of a lower level, they get access to it earlier.

As you can see, this benefits Paladins and Rangers more than Clerics, since they get a huge boost to their spell list with magic designed to fight against the undead (such as Disrupting Weapon, or Searing Light). They also get healing spells slightly faster and access to Cure Critical Wounds, both of which lack them.

Project Heretica Paladins get something different. Notice that it says "they are added to the spell list", not added to YOUR spell list. That means Paladins can choose from these spells, most of which are already available to them, and learn them as usual for their spells (thus, they get all Paladin spells, all the Cleric spells available to them, plus the Hunter of the Dead spells they're lacking). Adding all those spells for free would be useful at first, but a tad abusive in the end, once they reach 11th level or so in terms of spellcasting). That also applies to Hunters of the Dead basing their spellcasting from Project Heretica Paladins, because they get the same kind of spellcasting ability. Those Project Heretica Paladins that use the Serenity/Intuition ACF, however, get these spells on their spell list, and they can prepare them as usual; a minor, yet considerable, benefit.

Smite Undead (Su): Once per encounter as part of an attack action, a hunter of the dead may attempt to smite an undead creature with one normal melee attack. The hunter of the dead adds his Wisdom or Charisma modifier to the attack roll (whichever is higher); if successful, the hunter of the dead deals extra damage and causes a special effect. Unlike similar smiting abilities (such as the paladin’s smite evil or the justiciar’s verdict), the special effects caused from smiting undead creatures are fixed and they may not be changed. If the hunter of the dead makes a smite as part of a full attack, he may only use it once per round. At 5th level and again at 10th level, a hunter of the dead gains an extra use of smite undead per encounter.
Unless stated otherwise, a hunter of the dead deals an amount of extra damage equal to his class level, plus levels in another class that grants a smiting ability (such as the paladin’s smite evil ability). As well, all saving throw DCs are equal to 10 + the hunter of the dead class level + the hunter of the dead’s Charisma modifier. Furthermore, when smiting an incorporeal undead creature, the attack is treated as if it a ghost touch weapon was used. If the hunter of the dead accidentally smites any other creature besides an undead, smite undead has no effect but the ability is not used for the day.
If the hunter of the dead has levels in paladin and chose blinding for his smite evil’s special effect, levels in hunter of the dead stack with levels in paladin in order to determine the effects of the spell. Uses of smite undead stack with uses of other smite abilities (such as smite evil, verdict or entropic strike) to determine encounter uses of the smite abilities (thus, a 5th level paladin/1st level hunter of the dead has three daily uses of either smite evil or smite undead per encounter).

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Question! Can a hunter of the dead smite evil AND smite undead at the same time?

Well...of course not! You either smite the undead, or smite them for being evil, but not both!

Having said that, notice that the smite undead ability is based on either Wisdom OR Charisma. This is for the few Clerics that want to use their smite properly, without having to depend that much on Charisma.

Another thing that you'll notice is that it's based on the Project Heretica Paladin's Smite Evil, which means you can use it in any melee attack, not just as a standard action. This is crucial, because that means you can smite just about any time...well, most of the times, that is. Once per round, of course, but that doesn't mean you can smite the undead creature as an attack of opportunity, no? Damage, of course, will be weak, but it'll increase reasonably.

Turn Undead (Su): A hunter of the dead adds his class levels to his effective cleric level for purposes related to turning undead.

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Pretty simple; turn undead progresses as usual. So it either struggles as usual, or sucks as usual. Well, maybe later on it won't suck as usual...

Favored Enemy (Undead) (Ex): At 2nd level and every three levels afterwards, the hunter of the dead studies in detail the behavior and weaknesses of all undead creatures. He gains the favored enemy class ability as that of a ranger, except it only applies to undead creatures. If the hunter of the dead already has undead as a favored enemy, the bonuses granted by this class stack (thus, a 5th level ranger/1st level cleric/2nd level hunter of the dead who has chosen undead as his favored enemy gains a +4 or +6 bonus, depending on whether he added the +2 bonus increase to undead or not).

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This is the bone I throw to rangers. They get favored enemy against undead creatures, because it makes a lot of sense.

Note that the quip is writted with the core Ranger on mind. The Retooled Ranger has a different method of gaining Favored Enemy, which allows an increasing bonus on up to five creatures, except that you don't have to add that silly floating bonus (all creatures get the same bonus), and the bonuses apply to different things. The increased bonus does mean something; the Retooled Ranger can gain an unthinkable +12 bonus against undead, while still having a +6 on at least two or three other creatures if it goes Ranger 10/Hunter of the Dead 10. The core Ranger/Hunter of the Dead wouldn't get that same bonus.

One thing I have to mention when dealing with the Retooled Ranger is their eventual ability to replace their favored enemies. In that case, the bonus provided by the prestige class is independent from the bonus provided by the base class itself. That means, of course, if you change your favored enemies as means of a class feature, you still get the favored enemy (undead) bonuses from this class, but you can't alter the favored enemy bonuses from this prestige class as you would from the others.

In simpler terms: assume that the Retooled Ranger chose undead as his favored enemy, and then enters Hunter of the Dead. He probably starts with a +4 bonus with undead and one other creature (as it works for the Retooled Ranger), and by the time it ends with Hunter of the Dead, he'll have a +10 bonus. If he progresses all other levels on Ranger, he'll gain a +6 bonus on THREE creatures, one of which is undead, hence he'll have a +12 bonus. The Ranger also gains the ability to exchange his favored enemies temporarily. If the Ranger were to exchange his favored enemy (undead) bonus from means of the class for, say, favored enemy (dragons), he'll still have the +6 from favored enemy (undead) and gain the bonus when dealing against dragons, but he won't have a +12 bonus on dragons because he can't change the favored enemy (undead) bonuses acquired from Hunter of the Dead.

Clear enough? I don't want people stating that you can gain infinite Favored Enemy bonuses by RAW because of a flimsy interpretation...

Spurn Death’s Touch (Ex): A hunter of the dead of 2nd level or higher adds his Charisma modifier (if positive) to all saving throws against spells and effects used by undead. This ability stacks with any bonus to saving throws that adds the character’s Charisma modifier (such as the paladin’s divine grace ability).

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Unlike Smite Undead, this ability is Charisma-exclusive. However, if you want a decent Turn Undead, you'll need Charisma, so it makes some sense.

Improved Turning (Su): At 3rd level, and every three levels afterwards, the turning ability of a hunter of the dead becomes stronger. The hunter of the dead’s effective cleric level for purposes of turning increases by 1.

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As you can notice, the Hunter of the Dead gains an improvement to its turning ability. This means Paladins eventually equal regular clerics in their ability to turn undead, while pure clerics exceed the norm. A Paladin could exceed a regular cleric if he or she uses the Seek Eternal Rest spell, and there are other bonuses to make Turn Undead more useful than before.

Undead Tracking (Su): At 3rd level, the hunter of the dead is used to the lingering aura of necromancy left by the undead, as well as the foul smell and the indelible stain of blood they leave at their wake. Whenever the undead roam, the hunter of the dead certainly will follow suit.
A hunter of the dead gains a bonus on Knowledge (religion) checks, as well as Survival checks to track undead creatures equal to half his class level. Furthermore, the hunter of the dead may replace the Survival check to track a creature by a Knowledge (religion) check instead, if the latter is higher. A hunter of the dead that fails his Knowledge (religion) may attempt a Survival check with the same tracking action.

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If you're tracking undead, you could use the tracks left by the creature, or use particular quips of knowledge related to the creature itself. For example, you may figure that if a vampire requires sleeping in its native soil, you can make a Knowledge (religion) check to pick up hunches, or perhaps make sense of certain emanations of energy or dropped religious objects and reclaim the track. The ability to instantly make a Survival check if you fail the Knowledge (religion) check makes you a superior tracker, since you could easily keep both abilities as high as possible and use them in tandem. While essentially a minor benefit, it'll be extremely difficult for the DM to actually make an undead enemy evade party persecution.

Lesser Restoration (Sp): At 4th level, a hunter of the dead may expend a daily use of his turn undead ability to cast lesser restoration, as a cleric with a caster level equal to his effective cleric level for purposes of turning undead. The hunter of the dead restores one extra point of ability damage if healing such damage dealt by an undead creature.

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At this level, Lesser Restoration may seem like a bit weak, so why not make it a bit more powerful? It's a spell-like ability and you get to heal a bit more if you're dealing with undead creatures (1d4+1, so you'll always heal at least 2 points), essentially for free. Plus, it'll be insanely hard to dispel or nullify.

Improved Smite Undead (Su): At 5th level, the ability of the hunter of the dead to smite undead creatures improves. The smite deals double damage against undead creatures, and if the target undead creature fails a Fortitude save (see Smite Undead for the saving throw DC), it cowers as if it had been turned successfully for 1d4 rounds.

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Pretty nasty, no? Cowering for 1d4 rounds effectively takes any undead out of combat, and with the extra damage, you can deal just as much as a regular paladin would while smiting evil (or more, if you're an actual paladin)

Seal of Bodily Purity (Su): At 6th level, whenever a hunter of the dead slays a creature, it imbues the body with a divine seal that protects the corpse from reanimation. This ability is always active, and the seal requires no special activation, but the creature must be reduced to 0 HP or more. The seal remains for a number of days equal to the hunter of the dead class level, and cannot be removed by any means except for break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, wish or similar abilities. If a creature’s corpse sealed by this ability is reanimated by any means as an undead creature (such as by using the animate dead spell, or by being slain by a shadow, a bodak or similar creature), the corpse is immediately and utterly destroyed, spoiling the effect.
A hunter of the dead may place the seal on a living creature, but the effects are normally painful and the creature must be willing. The hunter of the dead may imbue a creature with the seal by etching a mark on the creature’s body representing the seal with a sharp weapon (piercing or slashing), which deals at least 10 points of lethal damage (as the seal has to be carved unto the skin); the creature may be healed afterwards and still retain the effect of the seal for up to a number of days equal to the hunter of the dead class level. Unlike the normal version of the seal, the seal inscribed upon a living creature instead treats the corpse as if under a gentle repose spell for the duration of the seal and merely prevents the creature from being reanimated (instead of destroying the body), but cannot be reformed once the sealed creature perishes. The ritual takes one minute to complete, and may be used as many times per day as the hunter desires.

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Very similar, if acquired later, to the True Death ability of the original Hunter of the Dead, this ability allows you to prevent the rise of new undead creatures the Hunter kills. This works even better than the True Death ability, as instead of preventing undead from reanimating, it prevents a creature from becoming undead in the first place!

Note that, as this works with living creatures as well, your party can be protected from respawning as undead for quite some time, and the damage dealt is eventually insignificant. Since it allows the ally to act as if under a Gentle Repose spell, that means the body is also preserved fresh, in case they need a resurrection later on. Very useful ability, if you tell me.

Restoration (Sp): At 7th level, a hunter of the dead gains the ability to use the restoration spell three times per day as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to the his effective cleric level for turning undead. Once the three uses per day are used, the hunter of the dead may use it one more time per day by expending two daily uses of his turn undead ability.

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Having Restoration for free, as a spell like ability, without the material component requirement, is a godsend. You'll probably no longer use the Lesser Restoration ability ever, but you'll consume your uses of Turn Undead real fast. Thus, all Hunters of the Dead gain three freebie uses without expending their uses of Turn Undead, making the ability even more useful.

Greater Smite Undead (Su): At 9th level, the ability of a hunter of the dead to smite undead creatures reaches a stumbling conclusion. If the undead creature fails its Fortitude saving throw against the smite, it is immediately destroyed; a creature’s turn resistance applies as a bonus on the creature’s Fortitude save in this case. If the save fails, the creature merely cowers for 1d4 rounds.

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Can you say "disrupting smite"? Yes, yes you can. This is the ultimate weapon against undead, because just a single use takes the worst undead out of commission. The nasty lich guy? Cowering or destroyed. The nasty dragon zombie, ridden by a fell death knight? Cowering or destroyed, and you can make sure the death knight is next. Vecna? ...Erm, maybe not, but if you can make Vecna cower for 1d4 rounds, you are epic beyond belief.

Did I mention Vecna is treated as an undead god? Mwahaha!!

Death Ward (Su): At 10th level, the hunter of the dead is immune to effects that would otherwise slay him. He is treated as if under the effect of a permanent death ward spell with a caster level equal to the hunter of the dead effective cleric level to turn undead or his character level, whichever is higher.

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The original Hunter of the Dead had a similar ability that made you immune to energy drain; while good, it was seriously weak. This is a true, fitting capstone; immunity to negative energy, ability drain, ability damage, energy drain and instant death effects makes you utterly relentless (and necromancy powerless against you...well, to an extent).

Greater Restoration (Sp): At 10th level, a hunter of the dead gains the ability to use the greater restoration spell three times per day as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to the his effective cleric level for turning undead. Once the three uses per day are used, the hunter of the dead may use it one more time per day by expending three daily uses of his turn undead ability.

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Hunter of the Dead will probably pass in history as the only retooled PrC with two capstones. Having permanent Death Ward is great, but having the ability to cast Greater Restoration (one of the best healing spells round for non-HP healing), three times per day for free (and then using daily uses of TU)? The only thing that is lamentable is that Greater Restoration has an experience cost, so you can't get that requirement away from you. But hey, otherwise you can restore negative levels for free! Even clerics are gonna love this capstone!

So, as usual: comments? Questions? I wanna make a movie with a character as awesome as this hunter of the dead? Bubba-Hotep was a better hunter than this one?

Thus far, all we're left with is Knight of the Chalice, the improved items for divine champions, and the other addendum. I'm also planning to alter Stunning Smite a bit, lower it down in terms of power, which will come soon enough.

[T.G. Oskar]

Bit of a heads up: after some consideration, I decided to nerf Stunning Smite at the first two tiers. This is how it works now, to make it easier:

Stunning (Tier 1): Will save or stunned for 1 round. Undead are affected by this ability; constructs are not.
Stunning (Tier 2): Will save or paralyzed for 1 round. Undead are affected by this ability; constructs are not. Characters with Freedom of Movement unaffected.
Stunning (Tier 3): Ignore Freedom of Movement and immunity to stunning/paralysis; failed save causes stun for 1 round.

The idea is as follows: Tier 1 Stunning is now comparable to Stunning Fist (requires hitting, blocked by a Fortitude save). A paladin will have more uses, but only one use per encounter, while the monk will eventually have more uses.

Tier 2 Stunning is still quite powerful for 5th level, but only for a short while, and a successful save nulls the effect, so it's pretty close to what Monks would get a few levels afterwards with Freezing the Lifeblood, or what Clerics get early on with Hold Person. Note that Ghouls and Ghasts get paralysis earlier than a Paladin would, and lasting longer than 1 round. The very odd Rast does paralysis on a cone range, and has better abilities roughly at the same moment the Paladin gets this ability. So I expect no excuses on whether the ability is still too strong. Undead and Constructs are treated as dazed instead,

Tier 3, however, holds a great deal of its power. By this level paralysis is something of the past (thanks in no means by immunities and Freedom of Movement), yet there are lots of spells and abilities that cause damage AND status effects regardless of the saving throw, so it's reasonable that a failed saving throw enables stunning. It's still for 1 round, which means it won't last enough.

Now, is this still TOO much for the Stunning Smite (arguably the only smite method that has caused too many problems), or is it balanced enough? I might attempt to dumb it down a bit more, BUT not enough to make it pointless. Daze is only managed once, and it remains firmly within stunning and paralysis, which have several creatures immune to.

[Cieyrin]

New Stunning Smite looks fine to me. Speaking of Smites, is the Hunter of the Dead's first tier supposed to have a secondary effect or does it just do damage? Also, you make the attack bonus Wis or Cha, I find it odd that the save also doesn't have that choice but perhaps that's just me.

[T.G. Oskar]

New Stunning Smite looks fine to me. Speaking of Smites, is the Hunter of the Dead's first tier supposed to have a secondary effect or does it just do damage?

Mostly damage, though you get a free Ghost Touch effect with incorporeal undead (thus, you ignore their miss chances because of incorporeality). So it gets its own tier effect.

Also, you make the attack bonus Wis or Cha, I find it odd that the save also doesn't have that choice but perhaps that's just me.

Well, as I mentioned, you still need a wee bit of Charisma for Turn Undead (both the turning checks and the turning damage), so it wasn't really much of a concern. However, I have that in mind, and I'm not really sure whether I'd keep it as is or make a change much like the Smite does. There are two classes which are expected to have higher Wis than Cha, with the Paladin being the inverse effect, so this might get a change (even if it implies adding Wisdom twice).

--

Having said that, I got to play with my friends once more, and this time it was a bit special. The Bard had some issues as how he couldn't contribute more than just singing (and outside of battle, but he wanted to contribute a bit more INSIDE of battle), so I spoke with him as he made me a lot of questions regarding DDO (another thing we share). Since he's now learning the ropes of optimization, I made him the rare offer of rebuilding his character from the ground up, not based off the PHB II retraining rules but keeping something from them (basically the rebuild quests). The Fighter expressed his concerns about doing nothing more than damage, and had to swallow the hard pill that the Fighter had no remedy (even if he's the top damage dealer, the fact that he failed a Will save against a Death Urge traumatized him a bit), so he decided to rebuild as well. Since the Paladin would have been left behind, the Fighter player decided that he should get a boost just because of being half-way there, so he'd be rebuilt with the same abilities but with 32-point buy, and he'd get a decent magic weapon now.

The session was spent on each character's individual rebuild quest. As a special mission for them, I would allow them to control the Paladin DMPC's actions in combat. The Bard's rebuild quest was hilariously easy: basically, he met Tasselhoff in a dream and reunited with his long-lost bear friend (which showed an unusual depth of intellect, beyond the norm for an animal, but that doesn't mean the bear was awakened), and realized the main threats of the campaign (the Quori conquering Khorvaire, the Demon in the Flame breaking free of its prison, the defeat of the Gatekeepers and the resurgence of the Daelkyr, and the Lord of Blades) through a prophetic dream. His rebuild quest was simple as we started late and I had nothing to face him (and he prefers roleplaying), so he had the choice to return to Krynn or help the Gatekeepers but at the cost of forever remaining on Eberron. His reward was the total rebuild, with a new focus of entering Fochlucan Lyrist with a Bard basis (he already had the levels in Rogue, and he was mostly interested in the bardic abilities over being a Druid; the latter is just icing in the cake, and his "animal companion" progresses independently from the Druid class thanks to Wild Cohort). The Fighter's rebuild quest was a bit more combat-focused, with the Fighter having round 2 with his fated nemesis. This time, the Fighter was nearly handed his buttocks to him (his nemesis was fully buffed), and it was a mid-combat upgrade (replacing 2 levels in Fighter with 2 levels in Warblade) that gave him the win (after a fisticuff fight between the two, with both of the warrior's weapons disabled). The Fighter (because he considers himself still one) will test a PrC retool of mine, but he was constantly cursing that I led him into a trap that was so good he had to make various changes (such as changing his alignment from Chaotic to Lawful, his levels in Fighter, and rearranging his skills into something different).

However, what I wish to explain in detail was the Paladin's rebuild quest, which I feared he wouldn't succeed. The reason is manifold; for the first time the Paladin would have a solo battle (all this time the Paladin had his allies to bail him out), he would be used by my players, and I would finally test the Blackguard in combat. You see, his rebuild quest was basically his test of faith, and was literally ripped off Final Fantasy IV's Mount of Ordeals; with a mirror at his front, he was confronted by evil into realizing he was weak and unable to contribute unless he fell. The Paladin riposted in many ways, having a psychological battle in which I used my pals to figure out which were his down moments (where he acted less than heroic) and his up moments (where he acted as a paragon of Law and Good). Then, he was confronted with his three main fears: that he was envious of his Fighter friend for his fighting capabilities, that he was too weak to protect those he admired (using the Warmage as an example) and that his travels were nothing more than a bid for fame and fortune instead of fighting for justice (using the Bard for that); there was a moment when Evil mentioned his flaw, how the Paladin thought of it, how would the Paladin be better off if he fell and became evil, and the Paladin's response of why he should remain good.

And, because it was a cliche-storm in the coming, I did what every single Paladin must prove himself for: facing his dark side. Which, quite conveniently, was a Blackguard with his same stats, similar equipment, but the opposite focus (the Paladin is focused on protecting his allies, the Blackguard was designed to focus on offensive). With many feats shared (Power Attack, Improved Smite) and the opposites of the Paladin's abilities (Weakening Smite for Stunning Smite, Covetous and Cruelty Auras for Devotion and Vigor Auras, Stand upon Adversity vs. Thrive upon Pain), this was the battle in which I would draw a great deal of data. And of course, to prevent having my players bored, I made them control my Paladin while I controlled his Blackguard/evil twin. Did I mentioned his evil twin was a Vasharan?

There was one catch, though; I would test something else, and that was the fix I made to the Holy Avenger. Thus, while the Paladin used nothing else but a masterwork battleaxe, the Blackguard was sporting a +2 unholy metalline greataxe that emitted a Magic Circle against Good effect as a 9th level caster. The weapon grows with its wielder, so it eventually will become a +5 weapon at the right moment, and then become an epic weapon eventually.

The fight began, and the Paladin won initiative (for one of the few moments he did). The first two rounds were spent buffing: the Paladin used Shield of Faith and Magic Weapon, the Blackguard used Divine Favor and Divine Sacrifice. The Blackguard drew first blood by using Aura of Cruelty, which dealt a decent 6 points of damage. The third round was spent as both divine champions used Dispel Magic against each other, with the Paladin dispelling both buffs while the Blackguard could only dispel Shield of Faith. They also drew near enough, so that they could engage in combat.

Fourth round began with the Paladin taking the offensive right from the onset (this coming from the Fighter player, who likes offensive). He made a full attack, with the second attack being Smite Evil; both attacks hit (with full Power Attack), which dropped the Blackguard right into near-submission (from 82 hit points to 11!), thanks in no part to the 51 points of damage from the smite (because Improved Smite doubles the extra smite damage). The Blackguard riposted by making the same thing, lowering the paladin's hit points by below half, except the Blackguard didn't use Power Attack; the combination of the unholy weapon, the smite (whose also dealt double damage because of Improved Smite), and the greataxe damage, took the Paladin below half of his hit points (but JUST enough to prevent maximum damage). Both gentlemen succeeded on their saves, so no bad effects (and with Stunning Smite nerfed, the Blackguard couldn't be dazed). This meant Stand upon Adversity and Thrive upon Pain both activated, with the Paladin getting the temporary hit points while the Blackguard began with extra damage.

Fifth round was spent with the Paladin missing his attacks (the first normal attack and the second smite attack), while the Blackguard riposted using the Vampiric Touch SLA, recovering just enough HP to equal the Paladin (while dealing damage to the latter). Sixth round also began with the Paladin failing, while the Blackguard used his Anklet of Translocation and Ray of Exhaustion. Luckily the Paladin made his save and with Mettle, the ray had NO effect whatsoever.

At the seventh round, I suggested the group used the Paladin's Javelin of Lightning, which could deal the Blackguard some damage. The Fighter, being of one track mind, decided that he would give melee one more shot. This time, however, he charged, activating smite along the way (remember smite can be activated as part of a melee attack, not as a standard action). This time, the Paladin expended a 2nd level spell slot for a 1st level spell, namely Deafening Clang (so all of his attacks dealt an extra 1d6 points of sonic damage and deafening). Finally, the Paladin dealt another hit, once again exceeding the 50 point mark, but that was just enough; the Blackguard had less than 35 HP, so it was an instant kill. Cinematics aside, the blackguard lost his nifty avenger weapon, while the Paladin got his own. Since he already dealt a lot of damage, adding an extra 2d6 on the long run wouldn't mean so much (BTW, the Paladin dealt 8 extra damage). After a grueling battle, the Paladin proved his worth and emerged victorious, with the Fighter once again stating his pride that the divine champion was finally doing the damage he deserved. Thus, he proved himself worthy of his rebuilding: 32-point buy stat retooling, and a magic weapon that progresses with his own.

Of course, I was highly satisfied with the results. Quite satisfied. Here are the highlights of the Paladin:

• While taking a while, the Paladin constantly dealt damage over the 50 HP mark with the smite, and 30 HP commonly.
• Having smite not be expended on a failed attack roll proved extremely worthwhile. Otherwise, the Paladin would have only succeeded on a single smite attempt.
• While cheating to an extent, the Paladin showed some synergy with his abilities. Although failed, the Aura of Vigor coupled with Crusader's Strike would have healed the Paladin for quite a lot (at least 17 points of damage, a maximum of 22 give or take). Deafening Clang + Smite Evil (stunning) + Power Attack dealt quite a bit of damage, from differing sources, and the 2d6 from holy almost broke the 60 HP mark.
• Dispel Magic at early levels is not really broken, but can be a lifesaver. Had the Paladin and the Blackguard rushed into combat instead of using Dispel Magic on their respective opponents, the Paladin would have had a +3 to AC, but the Blackguard would have had a +3 to attack and damage rolls, and deal 5d6 on his first attack.
• The Paladin still didn't use most of his magic items, which meant he won the battle by means of his class abilities, at a reduced set of ability scores. He could have used his javelin, teleport 10 ft., use his healing belt with extra healing, attack from a distance, and so on.
• The Displacement special quality is a true lifesaver. The Blackguard missed most of his attacks because of not reaching the Paladin's AC, but the one hit that WOULD have succeeded was denied because of the miss chance. Blurring might be better in the long run (because of the multiple uses), but a 50% miss chance in a duel was a definite lifesaver.
• It's a shame that I couldn't get to use Imperious Command, because I would have loved to see the reaction on the Blackguard.

Meanwhile, here are the highlights on the evil twin, the Blackguard:

• Without using Power Attack, the Blackguard easily dealt damage over the 50 HP mark. Using a two-handed weapon, the Blackguard could deal as much damage with a smite than the Paladin could while using Power Attack; had the latter also appeared, the Blackguard would have probably one-shotted the Paladin easily.
• Having smite not be expended on a failed attack roll proved extremely worthwhile. While the Blackguard had the chance to apply the smite on a single roll,
• Aura of Cruelty was just annoying. Just mentioning my players "the Paladin takes 6 points of damage" was puzzling for them. The Paladin began with less HP than the Blackguard because of it. Also, Strength x 1.5 as damage is definitely brutal, but oddly fair. Maybe with a Strength of 22 or higher can Aura of Cruelty be considered abusive.
• With Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Exhaustion, the Blackguard could have definitely annihilated the Paladin. Had the Blackguard fought differently in the first place, the Paladin would have had no chance. Still, Divine Favor + Divine Sacrifice was no slouch either.
• Vampiric Touch is great. While the total amount of healing was 21 points, it was enough to make the Blackguard go from near-dead to moderately well, and an extra shot would have been deadly for the Paladin.
• Unlike the Paladin, the Blackguard made good use of his items. Anklet of Translocation to create distance between the duelists and Vampiric Torc as an attempt to recover hit points from the damage (despite failing the attempt) gave spice to the duel, but weren't necessary on their own.
• The Blackguard has many ways to debuff his opponents and restore HP while dealing damage, which can make the class a fitting boss battle with little effort. Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion and the Weakening Smite could have easily taken a very strong man into the units, and a low-strength character into the floor and ready to be dispatched. Meanwhile, the Vampiric Torc, Vampiric Touch and the Aura of Covetous supplied some offensive support and mostly healing from different sources, reinforcing the Blackguard's stamina.

As a reward, the Paladin now has a +2 holy metalline battleaxe which emits a Magic Circle against Evil (thus, he basically acquired his Divine Avenger, which was his masterwork battleaxe in the first place), a boost into 32-point buy range, and Action Points to equal the group. Thus, he now boasts a Strength of 16, a Constitution of 18 and a Charisma of 18 without stat-enhancing items, alongside an Intelligence of 10. The battle was enough to raise the Paladin a level, which granted the following abilities (most of which were suggestions given by you guys):

• Smite Evil 3 times per encounter, and Resounding Smite as a secondary smite method.
• An effective Fighter level of 6th, which means improvements to Power Attack, Shield Specialization and Shieldmate.
• Power Attack now allows the Paladin to add 1.5 times his Strength to damage while wielding a one handed weapon, meaning he adds at least 4 points of damage from his Strength, which coupled with his Charisma he deals at least 8 points on average. He also gets a "buffer" of +1 on his attack rolls when he lowers his BAB by 2, so he'll miss less.
• Shield Specialization grants the Paladin DR 2/- by means of his tower shield, so he can reduce 10% of all damage he receives, to a minimum of 2 points.
• Shieldmate grants his allies a +3 shield bonus to Armor Class while within 10 ft., which with the +2 deflection bonus to AC from Magic Circle against Evil means they get a net +5 bonus to AC, +9 if you factor the Aura of Devotion bonus.
• A bonus feat, which is Awesome Smite
• A new spell known, which is obviously Bull's Strength.

I started to notice this early on, but I notice the 10th level of Paladin really turns the tables around. The Paladin gets a good variety in spells and smites, and a great amount of feats to make a definite build. The effect is slightly magnified when you consider the table uses a form of scaling feats based on the character's effective Fighter level, which is why Power Attack, Shield Specialization and Shieldmate have these newer abilities, meaning the Paladin gets even more from reaching 10th level. 11th level will once again turn the tables around with the addition of 3rd level spells, which are mostly decided (Girallon's Arms, yum!), alongside the long-awaited Divine Grace ability.

So: questions? Comments? I definitely feel comfortable with this turn of events, given that I was feeling frustrated with the Paladin dealing so little damage and nearly contributing nothing, but with some extra effort and focus it started to shine a bit. I would have loved to see more of the Paladin's abilities get used (the Intimidate, for example) but what I saw was great enough (Dispel Magic, Deafening Clang, the smite nerf not disrupting the game but reinforcing it), and I know that more levels will involve even more data available, now that some of my concerns were resolved and done in agreement with the players (the lack of a magic weapon, the ability scores and the odd weapon selection). The Paladin still needs some more data recollecting, now that the Fighter will become a brutal menace (martial maneuvers plus testing a retooled PrC of my own), so it's an entirely new ballgame now.

[T.G. Oskar]

Sorry for the double post, but otherwise it wouldn't reveal the update.

Just as an addendum: the Paladin also got five +1 returning javelins (his old javelins magically turned into those), so he has some sort of decent ranged choice.

The Fighter player is planning to make a retooling of the class with me, but I plain explained to him that I plan to demote the Fighter class into the Warrior NPC and make the Warblade the official Fighter class. He sorta agrees, but he's still going with revamping the Fighter, so wish him luck. He's kinda new at the homebrewing thing. In the meanwhile, I decided to allow him to use some of the stuff from the Pathfinder Fighter, such as Bravery, Armor and Weapon Training (with the bonus from CMB turned into a bonus on opposed checks instead), keeping the 4+Int skill points per level and the expanded spell list (which has, amongst other things, Sense Motive as a "defensive" and social skill). We'll see how that works, and what ideas can he bring to the game.

The Bard is going Fochlucan Lyrist (I think I mentioned that), while the Fighter is gonna playtest a retooled Complete Warrior PrC. The only clue is hidden within my username; kudos to whom gets it. And it's a combination of two classes.

[NineThePuma]

Knight protector?

[Elfstone]

That or Purple Dragon Knight. I thought the Protecter was to defensive, so I looked for the only other PrC with elements from two classes (Bard and knight).

[Elfstone]

Adding links to the two new classes from the OP would be nice.

Also, a few abilities headings in the knight-hospitaller need to be bolded.

Just stuff I noticed when rereading the thread.

EDIT:
And the justicar has the bonus feat ability listed twice.. Once at 2nd and again at 6th.. Why?

[TravelLog]

I'll wager on Thayan Knight.

[T.G. Oskar]

Knight protector?

That or Purple Dragon Knight. I thought the Protecter was to defensive, so I looked for the only other PrC with elements from two classes (Bard and knight).

I'll wager on Thayan Knight.

Nope, nope and nope.

I mentioned a few clues, which were pretty vague. I'll expand on them and clarify others.

• The first clue is being a PrC from Complete Warrior. That's pretty easy.
• The second needs to be clarified quite a bit. The PrC itself isn't a combination of two classes; the retooling ends up being a combination of two PrCs, though.
• Third, that the clue was on my username. That's the most vague of them all, but it's also a topic on the Gaming forum...actually a topic AND a Let's Play.

It was odd to see Knight Protector, because the Fighter's player would probably go Frenzied Berserker rather than Knight Protector (no, it's not Frenzied Berserker by the way...) The PrC he chose was to improve his combat skills furthermore while allowing him to diversify a bit.

Adding links to the two new classes from the OP would be nice.

Also, a few abilities headings in the knight-hospitaller need to be bolded.

Just stuff I noticed when rereading the thread.

EDIT:
And the justicar has the bonus feat ability listed twice.. Once at 2nd and again at 6th.. Why?

Thanks for the heads-up.

As for the bonus feat ability listed "twice", it's working as intended. All divine champions get feats at 2nd level and every 4 class levels afterwards. Thus, they get a free bonus feat at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th levels.

In the case of the anarch, though, it was because when I made the change, I apparently copied it instead of cutting and pasting. The idea was moving feats earlier because of issues with lack of offensive options at the earliest levels. That'll be fixed as well.

[NineThePuma]

KP was released in 3.5 as Knight Protector of The Great/Grand Order, iirc. Hence why I asked.