Blood magic...

[TechnOkami]

So, amongst another homebrew I have in my head, I'm thinking of tackling the concept of a blood Mage or a magic user with blood-based effects, etc. However, I'd like to hear from you what exactly you would expect this kind of a class to have. Here's a list I've made myself of what came to my mind:

-blood missile
-blood pool
-transfusion
-blood curse
-blood thirst
-bloody needle (spikey blood)
-blood weapon
-diseased blood
-bloody miasma (fog of blood)
-blood mount
-blood bomb
-blood wings
-caustic blood
-burning blood
-cold blood
-tears of blood (vision bonus)
-bloodshot
-blood memory
-blood shift (teleportation via blood)
-bleeding heart
-thicker than blood
-blood curdle (scream fear/sickness effect)
-blood money (money bonus)
-young blood (immortality)
-blood on your hands
-bad blood (disease)
-bloodhound (scent)
-iron blood (ac bonus)

If anyone can think of anymore, please share!

[Nanoblack]

-Bloodbound

I could see it almost like psionics but with hp instead of pp and class features instead of powers. Doesn't seem like it should have a spell list, so maybe similar to a warlock?

[TechnOkami]

-bloodhound (scent)

Beat ya to it ;P Swordsaaaaaaged

And as to your idea, I was thinking something along the likes of "x amount of hp sacrificed to fuel x spell for x amount of die" or something like that. I considered a point based system with the hp in question, and it is generally what I want to do. Alas though, I've never played a psion, or a warlock, so I understand their mechanics, in theory, but don't really know due to a lack of experience.

[Nanoblack]

Was actually BloodBound with a "B". The problem with your proposed system is mainly it seems like a lot of math.

[Sarco_Phage]

Make it CON based instead of HP based. Take CON damage to do X effect, CON drain for more powerful ones.

[TechnOkami]

Was actually BloodBound with a "B". The problem with your proposed system is mainly it seems like a lot of math.

....oh. : / Derp.

And yes, math will be prevalent, more so with this class, but we won't get into nasty stuff like percentages or fractions.

Make it CON based instead of HP based. Take CON damage to do X effect, CON drain for more powerful ones.

I think this would limit the class too much. Their HP would basically be a bigger pool to draw power from, and its not nearly as crippling as pure constitution damage and drain. Besides, the clerics would get pissy about having to heal his stat damage constantly.

[Sarco_Phage]

It would crimp the class to make it very gimmicky, but if you made the spells/effects less "blasty wizard" like and more "insane blood ritual" type (in other words, not exactly heavy on the in-combat effects) it might fit.

[TechnOkami]

It would crimp the class to make it very gimmicky, but if you made the spells/effects less "blasty wizard" like and more "insane blood ritual" type (in other words, not exactly heavy on the in-combat effects) it might fit.

"If" is the key word here. Frankly, I want more of the first and not the latter, so if you want to make a con damaging crazy blood wizard, then by all means go ahead. I want to do it the other way.

[Sarco_Phage]

In that case, consider making it more... bloody? Perhaps a blood blaster would be able to really mix it up in melee thanks to bloody tendrils, which are essentially Evard's tentacles except... bloody.

The key here is assigning a base HP cost for each spell and then allowing the spells to "scale" depending on how much additional HP you spend.

What are you planning to have as the class's base Hit Die? A wizard's d4 might leave you with not enough HP to properly blast. A d8, maybe?

[TechnOkami]

In that case, consider making it more... bloody? Perhaps a blood blaster would be able to really mix it up in melee thanks to bloody tendrils, which are essentially Evard's tentacles except... bloody.

The key here is assigning a base HP cost for each spell and then allowing the spells to "scale" depending on how much additional HP you spend.

What are you planning to have as the class's base Hit Die? A wizard's d4 might leave you with not enough HP to properly blast. A d8, maybe?

I was thinking more like d12 actually. I know they're not an up-front fighter type, but they're completely dependent on the amount of health they have to fuel their magic and keep themselves alive at the same time. It's not like a wizard because they gain their power directly from magic, while this would focus more on sacrificing ones health for power. Also, its much more specialized than a wizard is in terms of what the class does and where its getting its power from.

I agree with what you said about the base hp cost + scaling, and I also agree with your thoughts of this being more of a "blaster" class than a full out re fluffed wizard with spells and tricks.

[Sarco_Phage]

Okay. So someone playing this class would do his level best to max out his Con bonus and other HP related je ne sais quoi.

Because it would be a class relying mainly on the blood magic, it would probably only have (at most) simple weapons and suchlike. You might require a weapon that does slashing or piercing damage in order to use the abilities properly.

What you might want to do is this: take a look at the feats list and see if there's anything this particular class would be able to benefit from.

In addition, coming up with some bonus feats that automatically apply at 1/4/8/12/16/20 or 1/5/10/15/20, for example, would be interesting.

More blood-based abilities, I assume, would become available based on level?

[TechnOkami]

More blood-based abilities, I assume, would become available based on level?

Yes, at least 1 per lvl, and more than one for a few of them.

[EdroGrimshell]

Make it a feat chain that can only be taken by characters with a high Cha and Con score, i did it for a campaign and it worked fairly well, though if you're looking to create spells with blood that's another story entirely

[Pigkappa]

Sacrificing HPs to cast spells = an extremely high amount of spells/day. Except at very low levels, healing HPs is really easy.

If you want to do this, I would make him very hard to be healed (e.g. any healing spell can cure him at most as the level of the spell) by common means.

[TechnOkami]

Sacrificing HPs to cast spells = an extremely high amount of spells/day. Except at very low levels, healing HPs is really easy.

If you want to do this, I would make him very hard to be healed (e.g. any healing spell can cure him at most as the level of the spell) by common means.

Perhaps he can't be healed at all, except by the bloody means that his class would grant him (for instance, an ability which sacrifices some of his health, deals damage to his enemies, and heals him back if the spell deals damage), though that too sounds too dangerous.

Also: I was thinking of granting a temporary HP pool which he could accumulate in battle. It would only appear in battle and could only be filled via his abilities, so no cheap fast healing/regeneration/heal spell his pool so he can be an op tank. It would also disappear after a few minutes if he has any leftover temporary hp left.

[Nanoblack]

Maybe something like this:

Have however many tiers of abilities you like, but with the first level of abilities being free. Everything after those require higher and higher hp costs, eventually just costing fractions of max hp for the highest level of powers.

[TechnOkami]

Maybe something like this:

Have however many tiers of abilities you like, but with the first level of abilities being free. Everything after those require higher and higher hp costs, eventually just costing fractions of max hp for the highest level of powers.

That makes sense actually. If that were the case, then should the temporary hp pool not exist?

[Nanoblack]

I don't see why not. I was thinking of putting in a restriction requiring the usage of a lower level ability in order to unlock the usage of higher tier abilities but that would require long combats and thats not what anyone wants. Of course that Ideas viability is based on how many tiers you include and what sort of action it takes to activate them. haste would effectively halve the time it takes to hit upper level powers, but maybe that's what you want.

Maybe it could gain momentum as combat drags on longer eventually turning into a bloody whirlwind of death once critical mass is achieved

[TechnOkami]

Maybe it could gain momentum as combat drags on longer eventually turning into a bloody whirlwind of death once critical mass is achieved

Greater damage output and greater hp drain just came to mind...

[Nanoblack]

Greater damage output and greater hp drain just came to mind...

But that's not all hopefully.

[TechnOkami]

But that's not all hopefully.

Of course not!

[Seraphiel]

So, if the spelled are fueled by hp, perhaps you could limit healing done to the character to half. Also, you could make it so small amounts of healing (fast healing 1 and the like) wouldn't work unless over a certain value?

As for the costs, you could also say that if a spell is used more than once an encounter, the HP cost is half again as much. (10 HP -> 15 HP and so on).

I have no idea if this idea is even decent.

[Nanoblack]

The class should contain enough personal healing to make halving outside sources or reducing fast healing kinda null. The way I see this classes role in combat is sort of like the tides. It loses health and damages enemies, but immediately afterwards heals back (not necessarily all of it). Each time a wave goes out and comes back, it strengthens the next one.

Hell you could even include a class feature called blood tide.

In short, I see the effects getting stronger with more consecutive use, but draining more health. The incremental hp discount would just encourage spamming and make it too easy to nova. (Think as if a psion's powers got cheaper after every manifest )

So while the powers this class gets shouldn't be quite as strong as a wizards spells at first, they should be capable of snowballing into something fearsome, though at great risk to the user.

[TechnOkami]

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The class should contain enough personal healing to make halving outside sources or reducing fast healing kinda null. The way I see this classes role in combat is sort of like the tides. It loses health and damages enemies, but immediately afterwards heals back (not necessarily all of it). Each time a wave goes out and comes back, it strengthens the next one.

Hell you could even include a class feature called blood tide.

In short, I see the effects getting stronger with more consecutive use, but draining more health. The incremental hp discount would just encourage spamming and make it too easy to nova. (Think as if a psion's powers got cheaper after every manifest )

So while the powers this class gets shouldn't be quite as strong as a wizards spells at first, they should be capable of snowballing into something fearsome, though at great risk to the user.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Though I'm not too sure how much damage it should be persay, though something of a necessity for the class is an ability which both damages the enemy and heals the blood mage @ the same time, albeit once every 1d4/1d6 rounds and the ability itself wouldn't be overly strong. Then he could have a more damaging ability akin to eldritch blast.

[sscheib]

I kind of like the idea of an ability that if an enemy has taken so much damage and is bleeding out, the blood mage guy can use his enemy's blood to heal his own wounds. Using the blood around him as fuel in addition to his own. Eh? Eh?

By the way, I'm so glad you suggested this. I've been wanting a blood mage for so long and I just feel like the Blood Magus isn't enough. I have a feeling this is going to turn out awesome.

[TechnOkami]

I kind of like the idea of an ability that if an enemy has taken so much damage and is bleeding out, the blood mage guy can use his enemy's blood to heal his own wounds. Using the blood around him as fuel in addition to his own. Eh? Eh?

By the way, I'm so glad you suggested this. I've been wanting a blood mage for so long and I just feel like the Blood Magus isn't enough. I have a feeling this is going to turn out awesome.

I made one of his abilities similar to what you just described, minus the fact they have to be bleeding. It's more like he forcefully rips out said blood. >:)

[sscheib]

I made one of his abilities similar to what you just described, minus the fact they have to be bleeding. It's more like he forcefully rips out said blood. >:)

Oh, that's cool. What about...an ability that, as a battle rages on, the blood spilled is naturally drawn to the Blood Mage? So like, during a battle he regenerates health at some rate? Would that be too difficult to implement?

Or maybe, whenever someone is attacked and hit, the Blood Mage can regenerate a portion of the damage dealt. This would be a class ability that he gets later on, perhaps. It's sort of a horrendous thing that he might gain health based on his allies misfortune ^^

[TechnOkami]

Oh, that's cool. What about...an ability that, as a battle rages on, the blood spilled is naturally drawn to the Blood Mage? So like, during a battle he regenerates health at some rate? Would that be too difficult to implement?

Or maybe, whenever someone is attacked and hit, the Blood Mage can regenerate a portion of the damage dealt. This would be a class ability that he gets later on, perhaps. It's sort of a horrendous thing that he might gain health based on his allies misfortune ^^

...actually, the first doesn't sound like that bad of an idea. In fact, it could work like a conditional form of fast healing or regeneration.

As per the second ability... that I think could get overpowered very quickly.

[sscheib]

...actually, the first doesn't sound like that bad of an idea. In fact, it could work like a conditional form of fast healing or regeneration.

As per the second ability... that I think could get overpowered very quickly.

I'm glad you like the first idea.

As for the second one, I thought it'd be like a per encounter thing. You can only use it so many times per encounter, or even per day. And at the most I could see it regenerating something like half the damage. If that. Or maybe it only works when someone is hit critically. I dunno. It might just not work.

[TechnOkami]

I'm glad you like the first idea.

As for the second one, I thought it'd be like a per encounter thing. You can only use it so many times per encounter, or even per day. And at the most I could see it regenerating something like half the damage. If that. Or maybe it only works when someone is hit critically. I dunno. It might just not work.

Eh, I'm still tentative on it as an ability.