[3.x] Homebrew Love

[Morph Bark]

A few months back there was a thread where people seemed to think many hate homebrew. I came with this response where I talked about what homebrew saw use in my campaigns up 'til then and what we loved about it and whatnot.

I figured that hey, perhaps it was a good idea to get a thread going to see what homebrew others have used and what they liked or disliked about it, or perhaps what homebrew they'd like to play or playtest (since homebrew sorely needs that). Though there is a distinction between "I've played this homebrew before and thought this of it" and "I'd like to play this".

[true_shinken]

I've had bad, bad experiences with homebrew before, but Morph Bark's last thread inspired me to give it a try. I played Lix Lorn's Flashblade in a pbf here in the forums. I'm a great fan of the Black Rain and Dread Crown disciplines. I really like the concept of the Masked Demon prestige class, but I really wish it was based on demon possession and not a homebrew feat, and I don't like the requirements. I might fiddle with it for my game. I absolutely love the Star's Servant concept as well, but the execution was not exactly flawless.

I really don't like 'fixes' as homebrew, though.

[arguskos]

A few months back there was a thread where people seemed to think many hate homebrew. I came with this response where I talked about what homebrew saw use in my campaigns up 'til then and what we loved about it and whatnot.

I figured that hey, perhaps it was a good idea to get a thread going to see what homebrew others have used and what they liked or disliked about it, or perhaps what homebrew they'd like to play or playtest (since homebrew sorely needs that). Though there is a distinction between "I've played this homebrew before and thought this of it" and "I'd like to play this".

I use a lot of it with regularity. For example, right now, I have a player using some stuff I've made (my firearm rules, an altered Shadow Blade feat to not require ToB, a few other feats I threw together), someone's using T.G. Oskar's Samurai, there are NPCs using T.G.'s Warmage, my Monk and Shadow, Person_Man's Magitech Templar, DMofDarkness's Warlock Update, and Temotei's Corruptor (I WILL ALWAYS CALL IT THE CORRUPTOR DAMMIT ). I also use Rizban's Parry mechanic to great success (no, seriously, it's AMAZING) and Realms of Chaos's Descent of Shadows constantly.

I also make it a point to give feedback as I can. In fact, I need to go report to T.G. how his Warmage and Samurai are doing in my campaign (the short details are quite nicely), and should probably let DMofDarkness know about his Warlock fix's performance in my session last night (again, quite nicely).

Additionally, I have plans for LOTRfan's shardminds in the near-future, so that's good too.

I think I use more brew more actively than anyone else I know, other than perhaps you (at the moment) and maybe TDO and Krimm, if they still do 3.5 anyways.

[LOTRfan]

Additionally, I have plans for LOTRfan's shardminds in the near-future, so that's good too.

Awesome. Would you mind providing feedback when you are done?

Also, thanks for the link to the parrying system.

[Yora]

I very rarely use homebrew stuff as it's written. But I also use official and published 3rd party stuff very rarely as printed.

I almost never use anything directly from homebrew threads or such, but reading other people homebrew gets me a lot of ideas how to incorporate aspects of their work into my own.

[arguskos]

Awesome. Would you mind providing feedback when you are done?

Of course. I've been doing that for T.G. after all, and I make a point to do so whenever possible for everyone I can.

Also, thanks for the link to the parrying system.

Sure sure.

[Jarian]

I would say that about 60% of the material in my games is homebrew. WotC has jack-all knowledge of how to balance their game, so I do it for them when my players start to pick things of disparate power levels, or if they want to play a concept that is hard or impossible to pull off with existing classes/mechanics.

I've used primarily my own homebrew, much of which is not posted to the forums for one reason or another (laziness in formatting, really), but I've also used T. G. Oskar's Warmage, Healer, and Ninja retoolings to great effect.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Generally, I'm open to allow homebrew for my games. However, unless it has been made by me, some of the more wel-known homebrewers (off-hand, I'd be inclined to allow nearly anything by Fax, Djinn, DW, and ErrantX), or one of the other DMs running our communal campaign, I personally take a look over it before throwing it up to a vote among the DMs, and, in some cases, the players themselves. Probably the only thing I'd disallow on reflex would be something found on DND Wiki, but that's mostly me being a lazy git.

Thus far, it's proven moderately effective, but there have been a few minor issues, but those were short-lived.

[true_shinken]

Oh, something I should mention. I'll never ever allow anything from D&DWiki in my games.

[Jarian]

How is saying "I'll never ever use something from X" any different from people who say "All homebrew is banned, no exceptions, no, not even then"?

Granted, most of DND Wiki is garbage, but it seems a little hypocritical, doesn't it?

[true_shinken]

Granted, most of DND Wiki is garbage, but it seems a little hypocritical, doesn't it?

I don't think so, and frankly, I find your tone offending.
All the times someone showed me something from DnDWiki, I would waste precious minutes of my life reading through awfully written stuff and another few minutes politely saying 'hell no' without offending anyone. Saying 'I don't want homebrew from X' is the same as saying 'I don't use Tome of Battle in my games'.

[Thiyr]

I've used some homebrew before, with mixed results. We've playtested something a friend and I 'brewed up for him, which we think turned out quite well (and I intend at some point to post up here), and I am currently playing Admiral Squish's Dragon Shaman, which I am enjoying.

And yet I've seen the dark side of homebrew. We have one person banned from using it (and I avoid playing with this guy anyway, so it doesn't affect me much), one person who pulls up stuff that seems interesting but needs work that we try to fine tune to not be as iffy, and my typical response before looking at something from d&d wiki (though i will eventually look at it) is to ask if they're sure they don't want to use this instead.

[Jarian]

I don't think so, and frankly, I find your tone offending.

You know what they say about assumptions.

That was an honest question, not a veiled insult.

I also don't agree with your interpretation of banning everything from an entire site equating to not using one splatbook, but hey. To each their own.

[Ravens_cry]

Homebrew follows Sturgeon's Law more then even the published material. I am not saying it can't be good, it's just that it is hard to tell at a glance is something is suitable for your table and awkward to retroactively change things later. Also, as a DM you have a lot on your plate already, going over homebrew on a case by case basis is time consuming. It is easier to just say "No Homebrew" then to have to deal with all that.

[true_shinken]

Homebrew follows Sturgeon's Law more then even the published material. I am not saying it can't be good, it's just that it is hard to tell at a glance is something is suitable for your table and awkward to retroactively change things later. Also, as a DM you have a lot on your plate already, going over homebrew on a case by case basis is time consuming. It is easier to just say "No Homebrew" then to have to deal with all that.

I understand and respect that stance. Nowadays I have enough time to go through stuff, so I allow it on a case by case basis.
Except if it's from D&D wiki... or from Frank and K. Then I simply won't read it.

[Ravens_cry]

I understand and respect that stance. Nowadays I have enough time to go through stuff, so I allow it on a case by case basis.
Except if it's from D&D wiki... or from Frank and K. Then I simply won't read it.

Yeah, I think we can both agree that the D&D wiki or Dandy Wiki as my brain insist on pronouncing it, is, well, just not.

[Sacrieur]

I'd argue that homebrew passed through the rigors of the forums is far superior to the works found in the books for the most part. Get out all of your D&D books and make a list of the classes. Chances are 75% of them are going to fall into tier 4 or below.

[true_shinken]

I'd argue that homebrew passed through the rigors of the forums is far superior to the works found in the books for the most part. Get out all of your D&D books and make a list of the classes. Chances are 75% of them are going to fall into tier 4 or below.

And how is that a problem, really? Tier 3-4 are the ones where game balance is better achieved and are the most hard to write for. Going above it is a bad thing. People thinking everyone should have nukes is one of the main reasons you find homebrews that absolutely suck.
Also, most homebrew is not going to be actually tested, you're just going to get a few people throwing wild guesses at it, some of them people who know absolutely nothing about how the game runs.

[arguskos]

And how is that a problem, really? Tier 3-4 are the ones where game balance is better achieved and are the most hard to write for. Going above it is a bad thing. People thinking everyone should have nukes is one of the main reasons you find homebrews that absolutely suck.

Uh... that's not what he said? He said that most brew classes fall ABOVE the sub-Tier 4 range (as opposed to WotC, where most are below the sub-Tier 4 range). Tier 3, the accepted balanced tier, is above Tier 4. See the logic here?

Note: I'm not endorsing his statement, nor do I fully agree with it. Just clarifying.

Also, most homebrew is not going to be actually tested, you're just going to get a few people throwing wild guesses at it, some of them people who know absolutely nothing about how the game runs.

That's the point of this thread, to try and put together some people who are going to test the work provided and to share the experiences of works already tested, since many of us swear by brew and use it a lot. It's a drop out of a bucket, but it's a start.

[true_shinken]

Uh... that's not what he said? He said that most brew classes fall ABOVE the sub-Tier 4 range (as opposed to WotC, where most are below the sub-Tier 4 range). Tier 3, the accepted balanced tier, is above Tier 4. See the logic here?

Note: I'm not endorsing his statement, nor do I fully agree with it. Just clarifying.

The thing, arguskos, is that most WotC classes are actually at tier 3-4. Most brews aren't.

That's the point of this thread, to try and put together some people who are going to test the work provided and to share the experiences of works already tested, since many of us swear by brew and use it a lot. It's a drop out of a bucket, but it's a start.

I agree completely.

[McSmack]

Back in the day I homebrewed a lot of things - classes, races, items, and settings.

Then I read Eberron, and now I hate Keith Baker.

Because he took just about everything I'd made and found a way to do it better.

Nowadays I don't really do homebrew stuff. There's honestly enough resources out there for 3.x/PF that I can get just about whatever I want.

[Keld Denar]

I've had pretty good fun with Eldariel's Ephemeral Blade, even coming up with a couple of nice builds with it.

I'm also DMing 2 games. One has a ToB Samurai fix, and the other used the Sagitarious base class and is now experimenting with Warmarked and the Iron Rain discipline. Should be interesting.

[Morph Bark]

Also, most homebrew is not going to be actually tested, you're just going to get a few people throwing wild guesses at it, some of them people who know absolutely nothing about how the game runs.

Hence why I've put up some services.

That's the point of this thread, to try and put together some people who are going to test the work provided and to share the experiences of works already tested, since many of us swear by brew and use it a lot. It's a drop out of a bucket, but it's a start.

Exactly. Homebrew needs more love, and while there are a lot of homebrew compilations, I've never seen one with homebrew that has been actively playtested and put into Tiers. I could actually try working up to doing that as one of the goals of my Homebrew Playtest Services.

[true_shinken]

Exactly. Homebrew needs more love, and while there are a lot of homebrew compilations, I've never seen one with homebrew that has been actively playtested and put into Tiers. I could actually try working up to doing that as one of the goals of my Homebrew Playtest Services.

That is a very good idea, Morph. If you need any help with it, let me know.

[chrisrawr]

Post reserved for when I have nice/terrible things to say about the Lexeme (and other things going on in a massive homebrew-only game) - mostly my only concern with it is the lack of Utterances and Incantations - it's fairly easy to brew some up, based off of spells or the originals, but then you have to work at it, and that's just not right.

[LansXero]

Oh, something I should mention. I'll never ever allow anything from D&DWiki in my games.

Oddly enough, a player in my game has been using the Electric Creature template from there, and it has been fine so far.

Another homebrew we are using is the Mindflayer from these forums, and it has become a headache. Mindblast as written is a bit too much, and extract should have a harsher cap. Also, the way it stacks with sorcerer/psion is very unclear.

Ive been eyeing the Vestige Summoner as well as the Vestige Fusion feats for NPCs though :D

[Glimbur]

Generally, I'm open to allow homebrew for my games. However, unless it has been made by me, some of the more wel-known homebrewers (off-hand, I'd be inclined to allow nearly anything by Fax, Djinn, DW, and ErrantX), or one of the other DMs running our communal campaign, I personally take a look over it before throwing it up to a vote among the DMs, and, in some cases, the players themselves. Probably the only thing I'd disallow on reflex would be something found on DND Wiki, but that's mostly me being a lazy git.

Thus far, it's proven moderately effective, but there have been a few minor issues, but those were short-lived.

I'm one of those co-DM's. We had issues with the Hill Giant racial class combined with a homebrew class based on grapple checks to tear off limbs. It was tough to find a balance between "character is useless" and "character is too good". Then we killed the character with elite gnolls, so there you are.

I tend to skim homebrew and give a snap judgment on it. Sometimes this leads to issues in game, but my players are generally mature enough to accept "so other people can have an impact too" as a reason to nerf them.

[Ernir]

The worst thing about homebrew is all the reading I have to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, requiring me to learn new subsystems.

The best thing about homebrew is all the reading I get to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, allowing me to learn new subsystems.

[Lateral]

I generally allow homebrew on a case-by-case basis; as long as the class/race/feat/whatever is reasonably well-reviewed and/or is by a homebrewer whom I know makes well-thought out homebrew (ErrantX, Fax, M-Bark, Djinn-in-Tonic, T.G.Oskar, Eldariel, etc.), then I'll do a quick look-over and say yes or no.

I haven't ever gotten to use any homebrew material in a campaign, but I built one Warblade/ War Mind/ Ephemeral Blade for (possible) eventual use, and there have been a couple of classes that I looked at and thought, "Oh, cool." (Invoker looks fun for dipping with an Iaijutsu Focus-ing Factotum, for the free Grease.)

[Veyr]

The worst thing about homebrew is all the reading I have to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, requiring me to learn new subsystems.

The best thing about homebrew is all the reading I get to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, allowing me to learn new subsystems.

Awesome. Very well said, I think.