Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 82
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location

    Default Power of Clerics and Druids

    The group I usually play with is not necessarily focused on making extremely powerful characters, so I am somewhat of a noob in terms of power gaming.

    On these boards I have heard of the extreme power of CoDzilla (clerics or druids, If I'm correct) and Wizards (which I think I understand the power of).

    I was wondering just why Clerics and Druids are so powerful. I think that I understand why (a friend of mine likes to make druids, with some obscene wildshape options), but I want you guys' take on it.

    Thanks in advance.
    \"Dance as if no one\'s watching, sing as if no one\'s listening, and live everyday as if it were your last.\" &&- Irish Proverb

  2. - Top - End - #2

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Here's why: clerics, through a number of spells (three primary ones, all core: Divine Power, Righteous Might, and Divine Favor) can become, essentially, as good fighters as fighters; druids are even better once they hit 5th level, as they can take on obscenely powerful forms (and buff themselves, too) that make their physical stats irrelevant, *plus* have animal companions for added melee presence.
    This is despite the fact that they can (with Natural Spell, also core, for Druids) spellcast as the full spellcasters they are while doing so--and spellcasting is more powerful than melee, in D&D, after the first few levels.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    California!

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    The druid is powerful because the animal companion is already a rather good melee combatant, and with wildshape and natural spell the druid can easily get substantially better at melee than a fighter is. Also, consider something like beads of karma, hierophant levels, and shapechange. That gets really nasty, really quick.

    The cleric is powerful because they can be made as good at smashing things as a fighter with just one round of buffing at most levels; *and* they have full spellcasting. There's also a lot of individual cleric cheese, e.g. consumptive field + beads of karma + hierophant levels + divine spell power + (any of the word spells) allows you to kill someone not of your alignment with no save, provided they're only 3 or 4 hit dice higher than you.
    "TORONTO. CANADA. Which is, despite common belief, NORTH of you."-Abd Al-Azrad
    "Sadly, Thray has a point."-The Glyphstone, who is NOT a cad
    "Thray wins. at the internet." Rama Lei
    "It's only confusing if you don't get it."-Thomas

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    I know Clerics pretty well and they rock for multiple reasons. First off, you can almost literally be a tank. Encase yourself in Heavy Armor and a Sheild and you are almost untouchable. On top of that you get spells. GOOD SPELLS. The domains of a cleric (if played right) can get you some pretty powerful damage spells. Couple with that healing, as well as the option to boost you BAB up to that of a fighter, you've got great spells. And if you take the War domain you get free weapon focus, as well as the ability to use the weapon for free.

    Plus, the party loves you 'cuz you heal.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Genome's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    I was wondering just why Clerics and Druids are so powerful.
    It's a myth. Clerics and Druids are the worst classes to play. You will always be behind your allies in progression. If you want powergaming, try Bard.
    Ad maiorem Dei gloriam.
    Thanks to Ceika for the great avatar.

  6. - Top - End - #6

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Umm, Genome--we're talking about 3.5, not 2nd edition.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    California!

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by The Logic Ninja
    Umm, Genome--we're talking about 3.5, not 2nd edition.
    ...meta-sarcasm hurts my head.

    *Summons Yuki Akuma*
    "TORONTO. CANADA. Which is, despite common belief, NORTH of you."-Abd Al-Azrad
    "Sadly, Thray has a point."-The Glyphstone, who is NOT a cad
    "Thray wins. at the internet." Rama Lei
    "It's only confusing if you don't get it."-Thomas

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric_Bard
    I know Clerics pretty well and they rock for multiple reasons. First off, you can almost literally be a tank. Encase yourself in Heavy Armor and a Sheild and you are almost untouchable. On top of that you get spells. GOOD SPELLS. The domains of a cleric (if played right) can get you some pretty powerful damage spells. Couple with that healing, as well as the option to boost you BAB up to that of a fighter, you've got great spells. And if you take the War domain you get free weapon focus, as well as the ability to use the weapon for free.

    Plus, the party loves you 'cuz you heal.
    I actually want to play a cleric (especially with that explanation), that is once I have gotten through the other classes I want to play (Duskblade, Beguiler, Bard, and even my current Fighter/soon to be holy liberator).
    Maybe a combat oriented cleric (the question is what deity?) with Smiting Spell from Complete Divine and Inflict spells to smite my enemies.

    Thanks for the advice so far guys!
    \"Dance as if no one\'s watching, sing as if no one\'s listening, and live everyday as if it were your last.\" &&- Irish Proverb

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    ^^^ I think it was sarcasm...

    Any level 13 cleric with standard wealth by level and a couple of feats from Complete Divine can pretty much 1 shot any number of creatures who's allighnments dosn't perfectly match that of the cleric. On top of that, they can extended mass buff the whole party into becoming almost 2x the ability they have, for pretty much the whole day. Pretty broken when played with the right combination of feats/gear.

    PS, Genome, I love your Avatar!!!! SoM 4tw
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    California!

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger

    I actually want to play a cleric (especially with that explanation), that is once I have gotten through the other classes I want to play (Duskblade, Beguiler, Bard, and even my current Fighter/soon to be holy liberator).
    Maybe a combat oriented cleric (the question is what deity?) with Smiting Spell from Complete Divine and Inflict spells to smite my enemies.

    Thanks for the advice so far guys!
    If you want to be a combat cleric, the best option is to be really cheesy and try to get a cause that allows the war domain (with the spiked chain as the chosen weapon) and the planning domain, take divine metamagic(persistent spell), and slap one a persistent divine power.

    Otherwise, anything with the war and planning domains works.
    "TORONTO. CANADA. Which is, despite common belief, NORTH of you."-Abd Al-Azrad
    "Sadly, Thray has a point."-The Glyphstone, who is NOT a cad
    "Thray wins. at the internet." Rama Lei
    "It's only confusing if you don't get it."-Thomas

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    And a deity like that would be located in the Complete Warrior. Do you or your friends have a copy?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Oh, hey, my favorite topic came around again!

    CodZilla may well be real when all the splatbooks are dropped in the cauldron and the cheesiest combos are allowed to float to the top. I wouldn't know, I play in core-only games.

    In terms of core-only, I've never seen any substantiation that the divine casters are in any way overpowered. They are certainly among the strongest characters since they tend to fight almost as well as the fighters plus add healing and some nice offensive spells into the mix.



  13. - Top - End - #13

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Fighting almost as well as fighters AND full spellcasting doesn't strike you as overpowered?

    We've had this discussion repeatedly, but to the OP: Kraaze is in the minority--and the majority includes people on the Character Optimization boards, which know a hell of a lot about this sort of thing.

    Core-only, the gap between CoDzilla and other classes (except wizards) is just as big as ever. A core-only fighter, for example, can't do effective battlefield control, only bashing things--which CoDzilla does better, and gets full spellcasting.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric_Bard
    And a deity like that would be located in the Complete Warrior. Do you or your friends have a copy?
    No, we don't, but Complete Warrior is the next book I plan on getting (One of my friends is our library, but he is leaving collecting the Complete books to me.)

    Who is this warrior deity of whom you speak? (If you know.)
    \"Dance as if no one\'s watching, sing as if no one\'s listening, and live everyday as if it were your last.\" &&- Irish Proverb

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraaze
    Oh, hey, my favorite topic came around again!

    CodZilla may well be real when all the splatbooks are dropped in the cauldron and the cheesiest combos are allowed to float to the top. I wouldn't know, I play in core-only games.

    In terms of core-only, I've never seen any substantiation that the divine casters are in any way overpowered. They are certainly among the strongest characters since they tend to fight almost as well as the fighters plus add healing and some nice offensive spells into the mix.


    Obviously your clerics dont take quicken spell and your druids dont take natural spell.

  16. - Top - End - #16

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    The Red Knight (Forgotten Realms) has War and Planning, being the goddess of tactics, but her favored weapon is the longsword. I believe Comp. Warrior grants it to Heironeous.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Just no. I can't have this fight again. Kraaze, we need to start seeing other people. We just don't understand each other. It's not you, it's the cleric and druid's ability to fill two archetypical roles simultaneously as well as those they replace. It is tearing us appart.

    I made you this mix tape of songs that describe exactly how I feel. Included are such tracks as "OMG I'm a Full Caster and Tank (and You Aren't)", "People Who Aren't Like Me (Die In One Spell)" and "I'm a Giant Bear Who Casts Spells."
    Spoiler
    Show

    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

  18. - Top - End - #18

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Wehrkind
    Just no. I can't have this fight again. Kraaze, we need to start seeing other people. We just don't understand each other. It's not you, it's the cleric and druid's ability to fill two archetypical roles simultaneously as well as those they replace. It is tearing us appart.

    I made you this mix tape of songs that describe exactly how I feel. Included are such tracks as "OMG I'm a Full Caster and Tank (and You Aren't)", "People Who Aren't Like Me (Die In One Spell)" and "I'm a Giant Bear Who Casts Spells."

    Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha. Bwahahaha. Haaaaaa.

    Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    *Flex*

    That is definitely going in my signature. I probably should also make a copy of my post, since I will probably never be that entertaining at midnight at work ever again.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    I agree, you must copy/link to the post itself in the sig as well. Not that anyone needed me to say that. Anyway, I just wanted to comment on: wow, I just looked at the divine metamagic errata, and you can alter a spell to a higher level than you can cast, holy crap. The incantrix's instant metamagic can't even do that. As has been said before, wizards really needs to playtest with people who know how to cheese up.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
    And Tinypic went down a while back, seeing plenty of old avatars showing their downed image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Good idea. So good that I have very little clue on how to carry it out... I don't remember how to do that. Little help?
    Spoiler
    Show

    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Further proof druids are over-powered: they can create their own girlfriends.

    Druid in bear shape. Bear animal companion. Awaken bear. Get introduced to bear's parents. Have little were-bear cubs. Make your parents cry.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Not even going to consider the mechanics of that...
    "Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

    -Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Yea, that definitely raises some wierd possibilities. Even beyond the obvious "I wildshape into a sexual predator." jokes...

    Now we know where furries come from.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    wehrkind you are now my hero

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Azrael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Twice in the same day. Wow. Check these out for your referencing pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael
    This has been done SOOOO many times:



    1 (The most content)
    2 (Exact same subject matter as yours)
    3 (More Cleric focused)
    4 (No real content)
    5 (Eh)
    6 (Double Eh)
    7 (The most recent, specifically about Wild Shape)


    And no (because someone was all snarky the last time I did this) I am not suggesting ressurrecting those threads. But read them. I can almost gaurantee that if you read #1, 2 & 7 that you'll be good to go.
    Plus #8, the thread where that quote comes from.

    EDIT: In all seriousness, read the first thread that was linked. All 8 pages. Now.


    Shadowy Goodness since 1892.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Death, your friend the Reaper View Post
    Now we head around under the cover of night looking for threads that will most likely be locked, directing people to the new members thread, and fighting crime.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Thray

    ...meta-sarcasm hurts my head.

    *Summons Yuki Akuma*
    ...;D

    I laughed. ;D
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Northen Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael
    Twice in the same day. Wow. Check these out for your referencing pleasure.
    I think you should add the fact that Pun-Pun started out as a druid.



































    Ha! Godwin's D&D law has been fulfilled. This topic is now officially dead! Victory is mine! Mwahahahahahaha!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Azrael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    I hate you. >:(


    Shadowy Goodness since 1892.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Death, your friend the Reaper View Post
    Now we head around under the cover of night looking for threads that will most likely be locked, directing people to the new members thread, and fighting crime.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Shhalahr Windrider's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    By a Park
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Power of Clerics and Druids

    Pun-pun doesn't kill threads. There are plenty of threads that lived long, happy lives after mentioning pun-pun. Especially if only in passing. ;)
    The Future just ain’t what it used to be.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •