[3.5] Fighter Remix: Doin' it old-school

[tsj]

@jiriku:
Exactly. But if all classes were Tier 3 then every class should be perfectly balanced to each other (in theory at least) :-)

[nonsi]

@jiriku:
Exactly. But if all classes were Tier 3 then every class should be perfectly balanced to each other (in theory at least) :-)

Perfect balance is a myth.
Each class has its strengths and weaknesses - even if all of them are T3.

[tsj]

@nonsi: true but we can strive to get as close as possible :-)

[nonsi]

@nonsi: true but we can strive to get as close as possible :-)

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes a T2 class might be ok and lowering it to T3 might cause it to lose too much in the process, ending up with a T3 that's ok on paper but not so much fun in practice.
It's good to aim for T3, just don't let in your way

[tsj]

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes a T2 class might be ok and lowering it to T3 might cause it to lose too much in the process, ending up with a T3 that's ok on paper but not so much fun in practice.
It's good to aim for T3, just don't let in your way

In my view, a class like that needs rewriting or needs to be replaced by one or more classes... like the tier 1 wizard class should be replaced by a bunch of tier 3 classes each with a single school as their focus... like ie. Dread necromancer and beguiler

[nonsi]

In my view, a class like that needs rewriting or needs to be replaced by one or more classes

Insisting on this approach might somtimes cost you the loss of character concepts.

... like the tier 1 wizard class should be replaced by a bunch of tier 3 classes each with a single school as their focus... like ie. Dread necromancer and beguiler

Problem with this approach is severe lack of symmetry.
The Beguiler actually revolves around 2 schools: enchantment and illusion.
Also, I don't remember ever encountering other suggested countrparts for the remaining 4 schools that withstood the test of time.
As for the classes you mentioned - they lose their effectiveness with level progression. Monsters become resistant to mental manipulation, damage can't keep up and undead become less and less impressive.

[jiriku]

In my view, a class like that needs rewriting or needs to be replaced by one or more classes... like the tier 1 wizard class should be replaced by a bunch of tier 3 classes each with a single school as their focus... like ie. Dread necromancer and beguiler

Yes. That's the design philosophy I followed when creating the earth dreamer, emberhaunt, storm lord, wavekeeper, void disciple, summoner, and shapeshifter classes. I also built the ritualist and magician to create lower-power versions of the generic wizard and sorcerer. It's a sad irony that the wizard contains so much versatility that it could be split into 12+ narrower classes, while the martial classes are so narrow that I could combine 4 of them into the remixed fighter.

[tsj]

@nonsi: advanced learning should help with that along with wands, staffs etc...

@jiriku: nice :-) and yes, the difference in versatility in the core classes is staggering.