Doctor Who (again) [SPOILERS]

[The Big Dice]

Well... the thing is, I think CofBS was more trying to be serious than PP. Much more. I'm not going to say it was awesome but decent enough and just because they didn't take the rather easy way of turning everything into a joke doesn't mean PP was a superior adaption in every way. They were just taking different angles, imo.

If you knew anyting about Douglas Adams and how he wrote, I don't think you'd describe his script as taking the easy way out. Actually, it challenged the BBC literally to their limits and beyond at the time. But in those days, when asked "Can we show an infinitely long tunnel that accelerates people to near light speed, then deposits them safely at the other end" nobody said "Actually, no."

But the script was heavily trimmed down simply because there was too much plot for two hours of TV to handle.

Though, I read that review before and it really didn't agree with it. Maybe a few sentences but overall the writer might have even seen a different episode than me. But that's just me, really.

Face it, the episode was boring, the actors looked like they weren't trying, the plot holes were glaring and the resolution was both something we've already seen and not that interesting anyway.

And on top of that, next week sees the middle episode of the season arriving. Which means we've had a confusing two parter and a bland, forgettable waste of air time that has more in common with the Colin Baker years than modern TV.

On a positive note, I liked this Monster of the Week.

She was a good looking girl, but the concept of "space nurse doesn't really get how humans work" has already been done, and done better.

[Androgeus]

Face it, the episode was boring, the actors looked like they weren't trying, the plot holes were glaring and the resolution was both something we've already seen and not that interesting anyway.

In your opinion, yes it was. I found it an ok episode, mostly everything up to the alien ship was good, and then it was just really passable (ignore the drawn out death, they milked that way too much).
I wouldn't trust my opinion though, as I got amusement out of watching Paradise Towers and Twin Dilemma.

[Kato]

If you knew anyting about Douglas Adams and how he wrote, I don't think you'd describe his script as taking the easy way out. Actually, it challenged the BBC literally to their limits and beyond at the time. But in those days, when asked "Can we show an infinitely long tunnel that accelerates people to near light speed, then deposits them safely at the other end" nobody said "Actually, no."

I'm not talking about animation or special effects or anything. But really, if the captain in PP was supposed to be threatening then I really must have missed something there. 'taking the easy way out' might have been a bad choice of words. I'm familiar enough with Adam's writing, the thing is, I don't think he can make good drama. He can make great comedy but no real emotional drama, at least nothing I ever read from him made me feel something else than amused. And CotBS just wasn't meant as a complete joke.

But the script was heavily trimmed down simply because there was too much plot for two hours of TV to handle.

Well, I'm sorry I just watch the episodes and don't read the stuff they couldn't fit in. Maybe it would have changed it but... thinking back about the captain and his parrot... I highly doubt it, sorry.

Face it, the episode was boring, the actors looked like they weren't trying, the plot holes were glaring and the resolution was both something we've already seen and not that interesting anyway.

Well, I'll admit, I suck at judging characters' performance. I'm just very bad at it for some reason. But plot holes... you are talking about plot holes and while defending Pirate Planet? Okay it's been a year since I saw the episode but I'm pretty sure there were some gapping plot holes in that one, too.


Okay, after the last discussions we had I guess we have the problem that I'm pretty easy to please and you... well, have higher and different standards. So there's little point in arguing over anything subjective and we could just agree to disagree on most things (except for PP having no plot holes. I'll keep insisting on that one. Not many more than your average Who episode but still) (just to prevent a prolonged argument)

[The Big Dice]

In your opinion, yes it was. I found it an ok episode, mostly everything up to the alien ship was good, and then it was just really passable (ignore the drawn out death, they milked that way too much).
I wouldn't trust my opinion though, as I got amusement out of watching Paradise Towers and Twin Dilemma.

I can respect that. I liked Trial of a Time Lord and Ghost Light.

Mostly, I just wish the directors they've used on Who for the past couple of seasons were up to the task. The writing is (mostly) good, the actors are very talented. But the directors, the people who are supposed to filter the written word and turn it into visual entertainment while adding their own spin on things, aren't really trying to bring anything to the table. I mean, the guy who directed the last episode has also done Grange Hill ( a soap in a high school) and Casualty (a soap in a hospital) as well as Merlin (a dreadful things that takes the names of mythological figures, then ignores everything else about them).

That's not exactly inspiring and confidence-filling.

Edits:

I'm not talking about animation or special effects or anything. But really, if the captain in PP was supposed to be threatening then I really must have missed something there.

The captain was hiding a complex and sophisticated science fiction revenge plan under the bluster and shouting. And his polyphase avitron scared the heck out of me when I was 7, so don't go dissing that

The Pirate PLanet also has the only Doctor Who cliffhanger that has ever left me in doubt that the Doctor was going to be okay. The end of episode 3 is something that will stick with me for the rest of my life as a high point of what TV can offer.

Well, I'm sorry I just watch the episodes and don't read the stuff they couldn't fit in. Maybe it would have changed it but... thinking back about the captain and his parrot... I highly doubt it, sorry.

I'm obsessive about reading the production subtitles on the DVDs. And as I said, the captain and his robot parrot were surprisingly clever, just let down by 70s costume and effects technology.

Well, I'll admit, I suck at judging characters' performance. I'm just very bad at it for some reason. But plot holes... you are talking about plot holes and while defending Pirate Planet? Okay it's been a year since I saw the episode but I'm pretty sure there were some gapping plot holes in that one, too.

There's a reason that The Pirate Planet and City of Death are held up as two of the best examples of 70s Doctor Who. It's because in both cases, the scripts are nearly perfect. I'll be impressed if you can point out a genuine plot hole, as in something that happens for no apparent reason or that is left unexplained, in either episode.

Characters might act in ways that only make sense taken in the context of the show they are on. But that's not the same thing as a plot hole, really. That happens in just about every genre show you can think of.

[Giggling Ghast]

I thought it was a decent episode.

I like Merlin.

[Drolyt]

Face it, the episode was boring, the actors looked like they weren't trying, the plot holes were glaring and the resolution was both something we've already seen and not that interesting anyway.

And on top of that, next week sees the middle episode of the season arriving. Which means we've had a confusing two parter and a bland, forgettable waste of air time that has more in common with the Colin Baker years than modern TV.

I'll agree this episode wasn't up to par, but it was no worse than most of what passes for television, at least over here in the states (there's a reason I don't watch much TV). It was disappointing. That said, while the two parter might have been a little confusing, I thought it was excellent, and most reviews I've seen agreed. Also, next week looks awesome. Between the previews and Neil ****ing Gaiman I'm convinced it will be awesome.

[Closet_Skeleton]

That assumes people know what sound a flintlock makes and I really think most don't

So? While I've probably heard a flintloch firing at one point or another I don't keep an idea of what it sounds like in my head and the one I heard firing may not have been an accurate recreation and it still sounded obviously wrong.

And on top of that, next week sees the middle episode of the season arriving. Which means we've had a confusing two parter and a bland, forgettable waste of air time that has more in common with the Colin Baker years than modern TV.

Hey, the Colin Baker years had the protagonists acting like jerks for no reason. That at least qualifies as drama.

I wouldn't trust my opinion though, as I got amusement out of watching Paradise Towers and Twin Dilemma.

I found Paradise Towers to be one of the scariest episodes ever. Probably helped by it being so forgetable I only remember the one slightly scary bit.

I'm not talking about animation or special effects or anything. But really, if the captain in PP was supposed to be threatening then I really must have missed something there. 'taking the easy way out' might have been a bad choice of words.

Is the captain in Pirate Planet even the villain? I can't remember. I mainly only remember seeing the costume was in a museum.

Okay, after the last discussions we had I guess we have the problem that I'm pretty easy to please and you... well, have higher and different standards.

I don't count "not being engaged by a story" as a case of having high standards. Thats about the lowest standards can go the way I see things.

[comicshorse]

So? While I've probably heard a flintloch firing at one point or another I don't keep an idea of what it sounds like in my head and the one I heard firing may not have been an accurate recreation and it still sounded obviously wrong.

So you don't know what a flintlock sounds like but you know it doesn't sound like that ?

[Triscuitable]

Keep in mind that actual gun feedback is REALLY loud. That's why you never hear an actual 5.56 NATO blast from a SCAR-H in Modern Warfare 2, or a .22 from a revolver in Law & Order. It can destroy mics, blow out bass speakers, etc. I'm glad they went with a simple Flintlock sound forging, because my TV is brand new.

[Drolyt]

Keep in mind that actual gun feedback is REALLY loud. That's why you never hear an actual 5.56 NATO blast from a SCAR-H in Modern Warfare 2, or a .22 from a revolver in Law & Order. It can destroy mics, blow out bass speakers, etc. I'm glad they went with a simple Flintlock sound forging, because my TV is brand new.

Even given the volume difference, tv guns often don't sound like real guns, not even real guns with the volume toned down. That said, I have no idea how a flintlock in particular sounds.

[Triscuitable]

Ita go "pew-pew". Just like everything else in my head.

[Raddish]

I remember when I was a little younger I was taken to a sort of re-enactmenty place where they fired flint-lock rifles and cannons and such. The cannonw as awesome, I 'felt' it fire and we were stood a little way away, that was cool, but I am being distracted...

They fired a few different muskety-rifley things and to my ears each one sounded different to the others, maybe I am just strange..... It has been suggested before... But yeah guns are loud, and sound cool, in a loudy-cool way.


But anyways, I liked the episode, maybe it was not the best but I enjoyed it a lot. I guess I am just easy to please.

[Closet_Skeleton]

So you don't know what a flintlock sounds like but you know it doesn't sound like that ?

Yes.

The sound effect was just that bad.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Well I liked that episode. It was silly and lacking in substance, but it was fun and ended with space pirates. So I'm happy.

Also, I thought that the black spots turning out to be

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skin samples

was brilliant.

And I have no bloody idea what a flintlock sounds like, and wasn't distracted by it at all. (Though I was wondering about the missing pirate...)

[Triscuitable]

Speaking of which, I just cut myself... Waiting... Holding mirror... Dang.

[ThreadKiller]

...the concept of "space nurse doesn't really get how humans work" has already been done, and done better.

I concur that the current episode was meh, and the nurse reminded me of the nanogenes from The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances. Similar concept and great plot. It was hella creepy two-parter, too, and also some of my favorite Who episodes of all time.

[DraPrime]

What I don't get is why the nurse became incredibly evil looking around infections. I mean seriously, whoever programmed that clearly didn't have a good bedside manner in mind.

Also, isn't it implied that this isn't the only sighting of a siren? How often does this sort of craziness happen? The odds of it happening once seem low enough. Multiple times? That's kind of crazy.

[Syka]

What I don't get is why the nurse became incredibly evil looking around infections. I mean seriously, whoever programmed that clearly didn't have a good bedside manner in mind.

Also, isn't it implied that this isn't the only sighting of a siren? How often does this sort of craziness happen? The odds of it happening once seem low enough. Multiple times? That's kind of crazy.

She became pissy when someone tried to interfere with her taking care of the wounded, like when Amy went to Rory on the ship.

And it's implied in those particular waters during calm seas the siren was seen. Which makes sense, 'cause those boats would basically also be sitting on the large space craft like the current boat is.


That said...so excited about tonights episode. <3 Might use it to introduce some friends to the Whoverse.

[Aotrs Commander]

First impression:

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This episode is going to inspire soooo much fanfiction and slightly squicky fanart...

[Aidan305]

First impression:

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This episode is going to inspire soooo much fanfiction and slightly squicky fanart...

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I wouldn't be surprised if that particular Rule 34 already existed.

That's was a great episode though. Entertaining, funny, and just a bit scary. The perfect blend that makes Doctor Who.

[Selrahc]

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Good episode.

In fact, fantastic episode.
Very intriguing idea. Loved the Doctor/Tardis interaction so much. The plot overall was pretty good as well, rather than just being an attempt to set up the "Tardis in a living body" situation.

I thought the "Amy/Rory in the Tardis running around" bit was weaker, with the ill defined illusions and abilities but it was still better than anything from last week. I was getting a few Portal vibes...
The Villain was an interesting premise but I don't think it had much character beyond that.

[Aotrs Commander]

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I wouldn't be surprised if that particular Rule 34 already existed.

That's was a great episode though. Entertaining, funny, and just a bit scary. The perfect blend that makes Doctor Who.

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Yes, nor would I; but now it's like it's totally "legitimised" (sic) in canon (and know how little it takes to set shippers off...). I foresee an explosion of fanworks.

But it's also nice to see she's as bonkers as he is...

[Aidan305]

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I thought the "Amy/Rory in the Tardis running around" bit was weaker, with the ill defined illusions and abilities but it was still better than anything from last week. I was getting a few Portal vibes...

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Personally I found those bits pretty disturbing. Especially when you think about exactly how House set up those illusions. Namely, that they were real. House is using paradoxes to create certain scenarios and then tear them down.

And Since Rory is made of plastic and technically doesn't eat, drink, sleep or age; how long do you think he'd have to be there on his own to look like that.

[Kato]

There's a reason that The Pirate Planet and City of Death are held up as two of the best examples of 70s Doctor Who. It's because in both cases, the scripts are nearly perfect. I'll be impressed if you can point out a genuine plot hole, as in something that happens for no apparent reason or that is left unexplained, in either episode.

Characters might act in ways that only make sense taken in the context of the show they are on. But that's not the same thing as a plot hole, really. That happens in just about every genre show you can think of.

Well, took me a while but I finally got to have another look at PP just before the new episode. Okay, I guess it wasn't that bad but the pirate planet story still is a bit... well... it wouldn't work. Never. Guess that's what stuck to me. No, I couldn't find any real plot holes, I'll admit. Except maybe for the telepaths stupid behavior sometimes.

[Closet_Skeleton]

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Personally I found those bits pretty disturbing. Especially when you think about exactly how House set up those illusions. Namely, that they were real. House is using paradoxes to create certain scenarios and then tear them down.

And Since Rory is made of plastic and technically doesn't eat, drink, sleep or age; how long do you think he'd have to be there on his own to look like that.

I don't think Rory is still plastic. He's basically an alternate universe Rory that never died that has memories of the plastic version for some weird reason.

[Aotrs Commander]

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Also, not-actually-killing Rory is becoming this series' running gag. And it's actually starting to get funnier... (Anybody also note Rory sort of got to Do Stuff (-ish) this week?)

[bahamut19]

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Holy Mother of Jimbob, Time Lords can change gender. A lot of fanboys/girls are going to have a field day with that one.

Great episode though. Really enjoyed the Doctor/TARDIS interaction. Great writing and acting. Also loved the line about bunk beds. It's about time somebody said it.

[The Big Dice]

Well, took me a while but I finally got to have another look at PP just before the new episode. Okay, I guess it wasn't that bad but the pirate planet story still is a bit... well... it wouldn't work. Never. Guess that's what stuck to me. No, I couldn't find any real plot holes, I'll admit. Except maybe for the telepaths stupid behavior sometimes.

What's so unworkable about a hollow planet that jumps through hyperspace to engulf worlds and strip them of all their mineral resources? And the stuff with the time dams, their ever increasing energy requirements and the Captain's revenge plan was the sort of brilliant simplicity that only the very best writers can come up with.

And yes, the telepaths were lame. But in their defense, they were meant to be. They didn't have any more of a clue than the rest of the population of the planet, they just had mind powers.

As for tonight's episode, I have to say that the last three are a perfect illustration of the difference between competent, good and great writers. There was an energy and sense of not knowing where things were going combined with thinking you could see it all perfectly that I haven't felt on Who since season 4.

Now I want to see if the script Stephen Fry wrote will ever get made. And if they can afford to get Gaiman to come back next year for an episode.

[Kobold-Bard]

[Dvil]

I thought it was the exact opposite of last week's. The episode was incredible, but the preview of next week seemed a bit odd/lacklustre