Doctor Who (again) [SPOILERS]

[Drolyt]

Part of the problem is Moffat is also showrunner on the new Sherlock Holmes adaptation the BBC are doing. Maybe that explains the ham fisted handling of the over arching plots we've seen in both the seasons he's supervised, who knows?

He is? I didn't even know that, I love Sherlock. You're right though, that show has a somewhat forced myth arc as well. But all three episodes so far have been brilliant, thanks in no small part to the casting choices.

[Triscuitable]

Only example I remember of that actually happening is the one where Davros is ressurected for the first time and its actually a sheer veritical wall that the doctor has got up using a rope. Then there's Rememberance of the darleks which actually has stairs and the dalek floats just like in the new series.

Apparently I have terrible memory then. Excuse me. It was an old weakness in the four-part serial "The Daleks" and continues until "Rememberance".

[Closet_Skeleton]

Apparently I have terrible memory then. Excuse me. It was an old weakness in the four-part serial "The Daleks" and continues until "Rememberance".

The original serial has them only being able to walk on their electricly magnatised floor. Its a slightly bigger weakness than "stairs", which is redundant in a Dalek city that obviously doesn't have any stairs.

[Leecros]

This is terrible i know, but i re-watched The Doctor's Wife last night and when it was 'revealed' that House eats TARDIS's, i immediately was overcome with a fit of laughter because i was thinking of a different House. Thus this image was born.

I had just finished watching an episode of House MD.

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I'm not exactly a master at Photoshop....

[Triscuitable]

The original serial has them only being able to walk on their electricly magnatised floor. Its a slightly bigger weakness than "stairs", which is redundant in a Dalek city that obviously doesn't have any stairs.

Ah, yes. Right.

[Calemyr]

Personally, I think Smith's Doctor is pretty impressive. He does tranquil fury well - it's there if you look, but the only time he lets it surface is when he's trying to intimidate someone. All three of the new doctors have tried like hell to play the "happy go lucky man-child with a time machine" role to cover up their numerous emotional scars, and each does a better job than the last. Eleven does the job so well that even people who recognize the pattern can't be certain if it's intentional or flanderization. But there's still steel under the fluff, and that's been a trademark Who aspect since he first learned to play the recorder.

Frankly, I think he's trying not to be Ten, is the main thing. Ten wore everything on his sleeve, was passionate about everything he took an interest in, treated every kill he was forced to make as if it were a crushing personal failure, and considered every soul he failed to save to be one he killed. In contrast, Eleven keeps everything buried under a fun-loving facade, tries to keep his distance from everything, and displays little remorse for killing things that piss him off.

I've read before that some people believe that each Doctor's personality draws from how the previous one's final moments. It makes sense in an odd way: Nine was born out of war and became a warrior while Ten was born from a sacrifice for the sake of a loved one, and became a loving individual interested more in saving the good than destroying the evil. But Eleven was born as Ten fought to retain his identity and let go of everything, so what came out was almost the opposite of Ten: an emotionally closed off crusader who will do anything he feels he needs to in order to do what he feels is right, be it killing, sacrificing, or screwing with someone's life right in front of their eyes.

[Aron Times]

My ST had me stat out my character's ghoul, who is based on Donna Noble. Here is her character sheet:

http://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/10976

[Jibar]

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Extend-o-Neck is the single scariest thing they have ever done on Nu Who and it has freaked the ever loving crap out of me.
I am scarred.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Not a bad episode.

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My first thoughts were "this feels a bit standard but it doesn't seem to be a bad excusion of it".

But later it got a bit better when it turned out that rather than a standard "new tech goes evil" plot the double's motives all have logical explanations and they're just doing what the humans have taught them to do rather than being diabolus ex machina'd into villains.

[Avaris]

I loved this episode.

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Anyone else get Paranoia vibes at the start? The acceptance of the clone's painful death was perfect!

I was worried that the gangers would be the instigators of conflict, so having a human do it was far better. Both sides seem really freaked out and scared, and I like how different gangers/humans are reacting in different ways, both to the general problem and to each other. I can foresee some teaming up with their opposites by the end.

And Rory doubters? This episode was a perfect example of why he is around. He is by far the most compassionate of the main cast, and also most lost; he sees what is right far easier than Amy, who just sees 'monster'.

[Closet_Skeleton]

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he sees what is right far easier than Amy, who just sees 'monster'.

Only problem with that is that it seems

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opposite to her "the beast below" characterisation.

[Aidan305]

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And Rory doubters? This episode was a perfect example of why he is around. He is by far the most compassionate of the main cast, and also most lost; he sees what is right far easier than Amy, who just sees 'monster'.

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I suppose Rory also has the fact that he knows what it's like to be an artificial clone, with memories that are both his and not his.

[factotum]

Liked the episode myself.

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It's surely a racing certainty that the doppelganger Doctor is going to have something to do with that mystery of the Doctor dying in the first episode...

Going back to the discussion about how good this series is compared to older ones--I spoke to my mother on the 'phone after this episode, and she said she's not been enjoying it. Her opinion is that it's gone too dark and lost too much of the humour. I can kind of see where she's coming from, although to my mind it doesn't make it WORSE, just different...

[Avaris]

Going back to the discussion about how good this series is compared to older ones--I spoke to my mother on the 'phone after this episode, and she said she's not been enjoying it. Her opinion is that it's gone too dark and lost too much of the humour. I can kind of see where she's coming from, although to my mind it doesn't make it WORSE, just different...

I'm going to agree with this completly. I really like how dark it is getting; the fear factor is a large part of what makes doctor who doctor who imo. However this isn't going to appeal to everyone, and the show will probably lose viewers to it unfortunately. Different is better in my opinion, but ymmv.

[Androgeus]

I'm going to agree with this completly. I really like how dark it is getting; the fear factor is a large part of what makes doctor who doctor who imo. However this isn't going to appeal to everyone, and the show will probably lose viewers to it unfortunately. Different is better in my opinion, but ymmv.

The pirate episode was moved to this half for the series as they though it would have been too dark

[Avaris]

The pirate episode was moved to this half for the series as they though it would have been too dark

As in too dark without the pirate episode? Interesting, as in my opinion the pirate episode was the worst of this series so far. Dark and scary works it seems (again, in my opinion).

[bahamut19]

A fairly average Doctor Who episode (which basically means, very, very good if it were anything else on British TV).

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Anyone else starting to feel really creeped out by Rory? I love the character, and it's certainly not part of his character that I find eerie. It's just that he keeps dying, and this week The Doctor momentarily forgets who he is. Something seems very very wrong. I'm starting to wonder if the whole erased from existence thing isn't quite finished with yet...

[Kobold-Bard]

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What kind of insane response is trying to kill one another? I can understand confusion & fear, but "BURN THEM ALL!!", just seems to be a bit of an unrealistic way to force some tension. But maybe I'm the weird one and everyone else's natural responce would WAR!!!!!

Quite liked it, wasn't the most entrancing episode I've ever seen, but it satisfied the cravings nicely.

[Closet_Skeleton]

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What kind of insane response is trying to kill one another? I can understand confusion & fear, but "BURN THEM ALL!!", just seems to be a bit of an unrealistic way to force some tension. But maybe I'm the weird one and everyone else's natural responce would WAR!!!!!

Quite liked it, wasn't the most entrancing episode I've ever seen, but it satisfied the cravings nicely.

It is obviously just something that's happening to increase drama, but it was done a lot more logically than how its usually done.

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I mean zombie movies, seriously. There's pretty much no reason why zombies in movies would go around eating people. Its just zombie nature because the alternative would be dull (or just require actualy effort to make interesting).

So I think this episode did it quite well.

The rumour of a previous incident gave the characters reason to be suspicious.

They explored the doppleganger revulsion a bit before simply jumping to "kill".

They had a character who was clearly set up to ruin things ruin things and set it all off. Now that's kind of cliche but it still works.

They made the humans and the copies basically equivilant so it didn't just turn into "copies are evil".

[Kobold-Bard]

It is obviously just something that's happening to increase drama, but it was done a lot more logically than how its usually done.

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I mean zombie movies, seriously. There's pretty much no reason why zombies in movies would go around eating people. Its just zombie nature because the alternative would be dull (or just require actualy effort to make interesting).

So I think this episode did it quite well.

The rumour of a previous incident gave the characters reason to be suspicious.

They explored the doppleganger revulsion a bit before simply jumping to "kill".

They had a character who was clearly set up to ruin things ruin things and set it all off. Now that's kind of cliche but it still works.

They made the humans and the copies basically equivilant so it didn't just turn into "copies are evil".

Yeah, I know & agree. Not sure why I felt the need to whinge about it, just something bugged me. Dunno why. Feel free to ignore my previous post, I certainly will.

[Jair Barik]

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Definitely going to have to agree that rory's response is likely a result of past experiences. I mean this isn't too disimilar to his initial reactions when he felt he wasn't real.

In general liked the episode. Best line? The one about the cockrel, can't remember the exact wording though.

Also...

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Valeyard?

[The Big Dice]

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I'd say this episode was about average for the current series. Not the worst script, but directed in such a way as to remove all atmosphere from truly great locations. The problem with the show going dark is, you need that moment of light to make the shadows stand out. Otherwise it just looks gloomy.

Something I realised tonight is, what's happened to the incidental music? Music can really make or break an episode, setting the tone and making the difference between bland or truly memorable. Often without you really being aware you're being manipulated like that.

And it does seem that the writers are being directed to use the same ideas as they used back in the early 60s. Separate one of the companions from the others and mess with them. Also make sure that the TARDIS is not accessible, otherwise they could just get back in it and leave.

What's with every episode having the Doctor stare at the monitor as it flicks from Amy being pregnant to her not being pregnant? And the women looking at Amy through mysterious holes in the wall. Move the story forwards or let it go into the background a bit. You don't have to belabour the point, Mr Moffat! The same things are turning up in almost every single episode and it's gone from intriguing to annoying.

All that said, the fact that it's a two parter genuinely caught me by surprise. Though my prediction last week of the clones things being tied directly in with the Doctor apparently getting zapped at the beginning of episode 1 seem about right. I'm betting that it's the Doctor in the space suit and the flesh clone Doctor getting shot on the side of that lake in Utah.

[Iskandar]

Ok, Moffat, you can stop ending every bloody episode with a WHAM! moment now. Ok, I exaggerate a bit, but STILL.

(mind you, I did see this one coming, for once. )

[Soepvork]

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It's surely a racing certainty that the doppelganger Doctor is going to have something to do with that mystery of the Doctor dying in the first episode...

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Seems to straightforward for me. However, I would like the Ganger Doctor to have a bigger role than either sacrificing himself in the next part (which I'm afraid will happen) or go his own way, never to be heard from again. Altogether, I was a bit disappointed in today's episode: plot was predictable, the recurrent theme of not being able to get into the Tardis is beginning to annoy me and stretched out to be a two-parter.

[Androgeus]

Ok, Moffat, you can stop ending every bloody episode with a WHAM! moment now. Ok, I exaggerate a bit, but STILL.

(mind you, I did see this one coming, for once. )

it is a two parter, kinda silly not.

[Avaris]

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What's with every episode having the Doctor stare at the monitor as it flicks from Amy being pregnant to her not being pregnant? And the women looking at Amy through mysterious holes in the wall. Move the story forwards or let it go into the background a bit. You don't have to belabour the point, Mr Moffat! The same things are turning up in almost every single episode and it's gone from intriguing to annoying.

I don't think either of those appeared last week... besides, isn't that exactly what happened with Bad Wolf etc; they appeared each episode but never got acted on. Granted the cracks last series and the things this series are being made more obvious, but they are also being acted on by the characters quicker (I expect we'll see resolution of one or the other in the next two weeks, in the final parts of this half of the series)

[Jahkaivah]

"My exact double killed one of us! This prooves that peace is not possible!"

You're hostile response is only due to the exact some judgement that instigated it, all this prooves is that you are a goddamn psychopath.

This reminds me a bit two much of a two-parter from last season.

[Goldfly]

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Seems to straightforward for me. However, I would like the Ganger Doctor to have a bigger role than either sacrificing himself in the next part (which I'm afraid will happen) or go his own way, never to be heard from again. Altogether, I was a bit disappointed in today's episode: plot was predictable, the recurrent theme of not being able to get into the Tardis is beginning to annoy me and stretched out to be a two-parter.

The thing is that the Tardis would be able to clear up most of the issues in an episode. What's the point of doing an episode about something if they correct the conflict within five minutes?

[Drolyt]

The thing is that the Tardis would be able to clear up most of the issues in an episode. What's the point of doing an episode about something if they correct the conflict within five minutes?

It would be nice to see some episodes where the Doctor isn't handicapped though.

As for the latest episode, it was okay. It could have been great, but it started out slow and the atmosphere was... not bad, just bland. The story itself was pretty good, but I'm starting to get what Dice was saying about the directing. I did really like Rory taking charge though, he's growing as a character. The later part of the episode got good, and while I'm not too fond of the "clones vs reals" plot, at least the clones had an actual motivation. I have a feeling the episode started slow because they filmed a story that needed more than one episode but less than two full ones. If I'm right than next week will be better. If I'm wrong... then I'm not sure why they made this into a two parter.

[TechnoScrabble]

True, but none of the characters remember that.

Which means they could have murdered billions upon billions of people before that and nobody would have noticed.