Somehow, the NARRATIVE is metagaming...

[Drakevarg]

I know it's not customary for my weekly harassment of the forums with my quasi-inane mumblings on the week-to-week goings-on of my campaign (that was a lot of hyphens), but this line of thought is far enough removed from the whole bandit thing that I felt it warranted its own thread.

Anywho, I've noted that despite being the leader of this tribe (and ostensibly of a nation somewhere down the line), the PCs are not notably stronger than the NPCs they lead. Considering they essentially got their station via Klingon Promotion, and the fact that the leader of the tribe they intend to absorb next is 4 levels higher than them, it seemed prudent to power-level the PCs into something that the boss can't Offhand Backhand into oblivion. And I think when the game's narrative decides the PCs need some power-leveling, there are issues in fundamental design. But that's not the point of this thread.

The point is that I intend to powerlevel these folks (who will probably reach at least halfway to level 4 by the end of the bandit raid) to level 5 using an isolated dungeon. My method of getting them into the dungeon is blatant railroading, hopefully made up for by the sign next to the tracks that say "This Way To Badass."

Basically while they're trekking through the desert the sand gives way beneath them and drops them in these buried ruins that they then need to get back out of. The trouble comes in deciding how big I'll need to make this dungeon to assure they hit Level 5 by the time they get out.

My plans for the dungeon:

The setting is an ancient city buried beneath the Sea of Sands. They fall in through a sentry tower at the edge of the city that happened to be close enough to the desert surface to let them fall through. The only way out (since the tower stairs are collapsed) is through another sentry tower, which is located about halfway across what's left of the city.

The city itself is covered by a giant dome, which appears to be glass but obviously isn't just on account of the several million tons of sand it's holding up. Of course, about 3/5ths of the dome is already collapsed, resulting in most of the city being buried in sand. This apparently didn't happen all at once, as the city is littered with the mummified remains of the city's inhabitants, who starved to death when the city was buried.

However, since this city is from a civilization that existed before magic was taboo (and the downfall of which directly lead to said taboo), the air in the area is practically saturated with arcane energy. Triggered by outside stimuli, the corpses begin to wake up, remembering only one thing: how damned hungry they were. (Zombies, if you didn't get it.)

Of course, zombies get boring after a while, so the city has some more powerful inhabitants in the form of the gargoyles that formally acted as the sentries of this fallen civilization. And quite obviously, the PCs are intruders.

Now, as par for the course in my campaigns most of the time will be spent on atmosphere building, in order to make a gargoyle fight seem less "oh, look, another monster fight in a fantasy RPG" and more "HOLY CRAP THE STATUES ARE TRYING TO KILL US RUN."

About halfway through the dungeon crawl I intend to guide them to the center of the city, where they'll find a not-Palantir. It's useless now, but might become a neat Chekov's Gun.

Beyond that, pretty straightforward "Get in, wet pants, kick ass, get out" dungeon run. I'm mostly curious as to how big you guys think I should make it, plus some features you think I should toss in.

[Odin the Ignoble]

I'd have a few NPCs drop in the hole with them. You can reward them with extra xp in the event that they manage to make it out alive with the npcs alive.

Or they could use the NPCs as trap finders let the NPCs die, and make the dungeon crawl that much easier.

Depending on how long the dungeon is, you might have them run into problems with running out of food. If they don't know how long their going to be down there, they might start looking at the NPCs as an alternative food source.

I'd make the dungeon have allot of dead ends as they have to backtrack when they find that an avenue is cut off. Maybe force them to choose between back tracking and taking another day to find an alternate route, or dealing with a horde of recently awakened dead.

Keep the pressure up with vivid descriptions of how hungry and thirsty they become as they have to trek through the seemingly endless city.

[Drakevarg]

I'd have a few NPCs drop in the hole with them. You can reward them with extra xp in the event that they manage to make it out alive with the npcs alive.

I was considering dropping at least Ensign Badass down with them.

Or they could use the NPCs as trap finders let the NPCs die, and make the dungeon crawl that much easier.

Apart from crumbling ruins I can't think of many reasons for a city to have random deathtraps installed.

Depending on how long the dungeon is, you might have them run into problems with running out of food. If they don't know how long their going to be down there, they might start looking at the NPCs as an alternative food source.

Definitely a possible concern.

I'd make the dungeon have allot of dead ends as they have to backtrack when they find that an avenue is cut off. Maybe force them to choose between back tracking and taking another day to find an alternate route, or dealing with a horde of recently awakened dead.

Plus gives the illusion of nonlinearity (which it will probably have some regardless).

Keep the pressure up with vivid descriptions of how hungry and thirsty they become as they have to trek through the seemingly endless city.

I was also planning on using the lighting for tension as well. The city will have dim magical lighting across the entire thing, which is green in color. All magical components of the city will have the same color scheme. When the zombies appear, their eyes will glow orange, clearly marking them as something that should not be here. Then, later, I turn it back on them with the gargoyles. As natural parts of the city, they glow green as well... which makes them virtually indistinguishable from anything else in the city. Basically think Xenomorphs that can fly.

[Frozen_Feet]

Anywho, I've noted that despite being the leader of this tribe (and ostensibly of a nation somewhere down the line), the PCs are not notably stronger than the NPCs they lead. Considering they essentially got their station via Klingon Promotion, and the fact that the leader of the tribe they intend to absorb next is 4 levels higher than them, it seemed prudent to power-level the PCs into something that the boss can't Offhand Backhand into oblivion. And I think when the game's narrative decides the PCs need some power-leveling, there are issues in fundamental design. But that's not the point of this thread.

I just wanted to drop by and say that the way you're thinking of it makes it sound worse than it is. In character, "That's the next guy we gonna fight, but he's tough, so we better train our assess off so we can be a match to him" is a perfectly valid thought-model.

I'm not sure if it's workable to your dungeon model as-is, but you could take a pretty big paintbrush and color the whole dungeon in terms of training. Hmmm... maybe "These are the feared, haunted ruins. No-one's ever stayed here longer than two nights. Now we're going to show them up! Then we'll see who's the real ****!"

[Knaight]

Apart from crumbling ruins I can't think of many reasons for a city to have random deathtraps installed.

There are plenty of reasons. Consider real world militaries, plenty of them love their land mines because they work so well as an unmanned "screw you" to anyone they dislike, particularly as concerns morale. Then consider how these landmines have a tendency to still be in place long after the conflict that caused them is over. The exact same principle could apply to conflicts within the city, whether these are essentially gangs, hostile troops that attempted to take it over, groups that rose out of ethnic tensions, or anything else. All long gone, of course, but with certain places that are just fundamentally unsafe, and largely avoided by the inhabitants after the conflicts, none of whom are still alive and able to tell the PCs not to go into those areas.

Now, I'm not saying that traps are a good idea, merely that they are plausible. The undercurrent story of what happened to the story could help the session, with the traps, glimpses of graffiti, maybe the occasional paper that survived a long time, even the condition of buildings all acting as indicators.

[Odin the Ignoble]

If it's an actual buried city, I'd throw in a small sub-dungeon in the form of one of the cities temples.

If you're looking for a reason to include traps, you could put them there.

It also gives the players a chance to get the fat loots. Of course it then becomes a dilemma if you put the temple early in to the dungeon. "Do we carry all the hundreds of pounds of gold miles through a zombie infested necropolis, or do we leave it here and greatly increase our chances of survival?"

The temple could make for a suitably gruesome unsettling, encounter too. Hundreds of the dead lying still in pews, starved and disheveled, waiting for a salvation that never came, the high priest lies sprawled over the alter, his last breaths an unheard plea. As the pc's wander in a few dessicated heads raise to stare in their direction, then a few more...

If you really wanted to be evil, you could have piles of gold left on the alter as parishioners gave all their possessions away in an attempt to please some uncaring god. Then have the "parishioners" do nothing but stare at the PCs as they get closer to the gold on the altar.

[Drakevarg]

I just wanted to drop by and say that the way you're thinking of it makes it sound worse than it is. In character, "That's the next guy we gonna fight, but he's tough, so we better train our assess off so we can be a match to him" is a perfectly valid thought-model.

Valid, yes, but implausible. The PCs have never met or heard of this leader-guy and have no way of getting info on him beyond interrogating the bandits they've captured (presuming they don't bleed out, and even then they'd only get general, non-level-based descriptions of his skill) or walking into the enemy camp and finding out personally.

The temple could make for a suitably gruesome unsettling, encounter too. Hundreds of the dead lying still in pews, starved and disheveled, waiting for a salvation that never came, the high priest lies sprawled over the alter, his last breaths an unheard plea. As the pc's wander in a few dessicated heads raise to stare in their direction, then a few more...

If you really wanted to be evil, you could have piles of gold left on the alter as parishioners gave all their possessions away in an attempt to please some uncaring god. Then have the "parishioners" do nothing but stare at the PCs as they get closer to the gold on the altar.

I wish I could respond to an entire post with just... ">:3" ...so I will.

[Morghen]

The exact same principle could apply to conflicts within the city, whether these are essentially gangs, hostile troops that attempted to take it over, groups that rose out of ethnic tensions, or anything else.

Word. Looting, cannibalism, etc. would make me install traps around the perimeter of my preferred area.

They don't even have to be "step on plate, fall down pit" traps. More like Schwarzenegger's silly ditch of doom at the end of Predator.

A: "What do we have that we can use?"
B: "Well, we've got this heavy thing that we can drop on people."
A: "That's just so crazy it might work!"

The PCs work their way through a string of traps, bust through a door, and find the undead starved-to-death trap-setters.

[Knaight]

Word. Looting, cannibalism, etc. would make me install traps around the perimeter of my preferred area.

I was thinking of more mundane conflicts. Say the city has one ethnic group, with a culture from one civilization, and is conquered by another. Some sort of equilibrium is reached, right up until the conquering civilization gets a new ruler, who puts restrictions on what religions can be practiced, and someone from the conquered decides to react in a very extreme manner, with violence breaking out on all the tensions between the initial conquest and the new leader.

Now say that the whole "one ethnic group" from the beginning is really just how the initial conquerors saw it, and that it is actually much more complicated. An underlying tension between nomads who settled down recently and those long in the city could have been there before, and of course there are the conquerors who have been assimilated into both conquered groups, the conquered who have joined the conquerors culture, so on and so forth.

Then take the demands of a specific religion. Its not like people won't have a bunch of ideas as to what that means, and that there won't be opposed sects, and this means a whole bunch of conflicting groups. Add criminal elements trying to profit off the chaos, and you have exactly the sort of screwy situation where people start putting traps all over the place, and you have a bunch of people who just want to get out of the situation.

[BRC]

How did this city collapse? The nature of it's final days would be crucial to determining what the PC's might face among it's ruins. You mention that it's downfall led to magic becoming Taboo, Perhaps the city was torn apart by a civil war between a group of powerful mages and those who feared so much power in the hands of so few people.

Everytime you build an area, figure out what the last thing that happened there was.

Picture this, the PC's come across what was once a marketplace, and is now a ruined battlefield. Rotted carts form barricades, splitting the city into two. Skeletons lie behind the barricades clutching weapons, keeping eternal vigil on their enemies across the way. More corpses fill a no-mans-land between the two sides.

During the Final Days, this plaza had been the site of days of bloody battle between the two sides. In the end, a Wizard decided to halt the enemy advance by filling the courtyard with Cloudkill (or something similar), killing all the troops from both sides. Neither side managed to retake it before the war ended.


Perhaps another area is a large house, once belonging to an influential politician in the city. devastated by both the conflict and the passage of time the once fine dwelling stands in ruins. The Politican's honor guard put up a spirited last stand here, filling the house with traps and defenses. However, after days of siege they ran out of food and came to the conclusion that the Politican must have hidden some away. They captured him and began torturing him to reveal where he had hidden supplies. while they were doing this the enemy broke through and stormed the building, killing everybody inside.

The Politican's body still lies there, pinned to the wall by the spear of his own bodyguard.


Another area was once a Prison. During the fighting the Guard's abandoned it, simply sealing the prisoners in, letting them die of hunger and thirst. The Undead here are particularly brutal and vicious, both because of who they were, and because of how they died.


Somewhere else you have what was once a gate out of the city, refugees flooded towards it only to find it shut. Unable to go elsewhere because of the press of bodies behind them, thousands of people died there attempting to flee before the city was buried, then trapped when it was.


Edit: ooh, if you do this, you could have two types of undead. "Hunger" zombies, who died of starvation after the city fell, and "Anger" zombies who were killed during the fighting.

[Frozen_Feet]

Valid, yes, but implausible. The PCs have never met or heard of this leader-guy and have no way of getting info on him beyond interrogating the bandits they've captured (presuming they don't bleed out, and even then they'd only get general, non-level-based descriptions of his skill) or walking into the enemy camp and finding out personally.

Then why not have them on their way there, hearing increasingly bad news of their next target? You could off-handedly have a wandering NPC (merchant, for example) mention that "You know, this guy was tough enough to stay in the city of the damned two whole night. I doubt you could beat him", and then have the city of the damned just happen to be on the PC route.

As for rationalizing traps etc. - one of my favorite settings practically runs on magic-infested ruins.

So for weird dangers the PCs run into as they venture deeper - these poisonous plants, they're result of the poisoned soil and water. Those abominable creatures, they're what came of ordinary desert animals who ventured here. Those trap-like, weird locations that screw with your expections of the environment? Result of wild magic from ancient portals, some of which might still be operable (beware!). Actual traps? Leftovers from the civil war that caused demise of the place. Things that work like traps but aren't? Ancient structures collapsing from the slightest interference.

[huttj509]

How did this city collapse? The nature of it's final days would be crucial to determining what the PC's might face among it's ruins. You mention that it's downfall led to magic becoming Taboo, Perhaps the city was torn apart by a civil war between a group of powerful mages and those who feared so much power in the hands of so few people.

Everytime you build an area, figure out what the last thing that happened there was.

Picture this, the PC's come across what was once a marketplace, and is now a ruined battlefield. Rotted carts form barricades, splitting the city into two. Skeletons lie behind the barricades clutching weapons, keeping eternal vigil on their enemies across the way. More corpses fill a no-mans-land between the two sides.

During the Final Days, this plaza had been the site of days of bloody battle between the two sides. In the end, a Wizard decided to halt the enemy advance by filling the courtyard with Cloudkill (or something similar), killing all the troops from both sides. Neither side managed to retake it before the war ended.


Perhaps another area is a large house, once belonging to an influential politician in the city. devastated by both the conflict and the passage of time the once fine dwelling stands in ruins. The Politican's honor guard put up a spirited last stand here, filling the house with traps and defenses. However, after days of siege they ran out of food and came to the conclusion that the Politican must have hidden some away. They captured him and began torturing him to reveal where he had hidden supplies. while they were doing this the enemy broke through and stormed the building, killing everybody inside.

The Politican's body still lies there, pinned to the wall by the spear of his own bodyguard.


Another area was once a Prison. During the fighting the Guard's abandoned it, simply sealing the prisoners in, letting them die of hunger and thirst. The Undead here are particularly brutal and vicious, both because of who they were, and because of how they died.


Somewhere else you have what was once a gate out of the city, refugees flooded towards it only to find it shut. Unable to go elsewhere because of the press of bodies behind them, thousands of people died there attempting to flee before the city was buried, then trapped when it was.

I think this could tie in well with an idea of not all corpses being antagonistic undead, even if all are animated to some extent. It could vary depending on their motivations as they died.

The bodies by the gate may reanimate to varying extents, all still trying to get out of the gate, and ignoring the presence of the PCs. Increasing the crush on the ones near the front, you can even hear the soft crunch of bone under bone.

PCs could either try to open the gate, allowing the bodies to spill outwards, where they spread out a bit then collapse, finally free.

Or they could start cleaving their way through the pile to clear the gate. The pile consisting largely of smaller bodies, children, young people, mothers clutching their babies as they try to get out.

Hit with a hard emotional part rather than "the city's trying to kill us!" all the time.

:-)

[Drakevarg]

How did this city collapse? The nature of it's final days would be crucial to determining what the PC's might face among it's ruins. You mention that it's downfall led to magic becoming Taboo,

In my other thread for this week, I mentioned that the desert of Harena Maris is basically circular in shape. This is a major spoiler for the campaign, but since none of my players visit this site and they should know better than to look in my threads, I'll just tell you lot:

The civilization that collapsed and lead to magic becoming taboo used to span nearly the entire globe. The incident in Harena Maris was the first of many cataclysmic events that ultimately resulted in the civilization being completely wiped out. The area that is now Harena Maris used to be much like the rest of what is now the Empire: rocky, arid grasslands. However, an incident that I won't be discussing because a) I haven't fully decided yet and b) it's pretty crucial to the plot, resulted in a massive explosion that permanently changed the environment.

As one might expect, an explosion of that size kicks up a lot of dirt and sand. Where this sand landed is now the Sea of Sands that makes up the middle ring of the desert. This city, along with several others, had several million tons of earth dropped on their heads. The only reason the entire city wasn't crushed instantly was because the "glass" dome over the city was actually a magical shield that managed to hold off most of the blast. Even so, the area closest to the origin point of the blast was crushed instantly. Over the millenia, the edges of what remains of the shield have been collapsing under the sheer weight of the desert above.

Suddenly buried under twenty or so feet of sand in the shallowest of areas, the city was pretty much doomed from the onset. Afterwards the populace obviously descended into chaos as people fought over what was left of the food, out of panic, or out of reckless abandon at the realization of their inevitable death.

This, by the way, was the fate of dozens of cities now buried underneath the Sea of Sands.

-stuff-

A lot of this probably would have happened as people essentially went nuts. Good way to traumatize the ever-loving crap out of my players. Even better since they've already learned from my last campaign that anything supernatural is inherently going to be horrible and traumatizing.

I think this could tie in well with an idea of not all corpses being antagonistic undead, even if all are animated to some extent. It could vary depending on their motivations as they died.

The bodies by the gate may reanimate to varying extents, all still trying to get out of the gate, and ignoring the presence of the PCs. Increasing the crush on the ones near the front, you can even hear the soft crunch of bone under bone.

PCs could either try to open the gate, allowing the bodies to spill outwards, where they spread out a bit then collapse, finally free.

Or they could start cleaving their way through the pile to clear the gate. The pile consisting largely of smaller bodies, children, young people, mothers clutching their babies as they try to get out.

Hit with a hard emotional part rather than "the city's trying to kill us!" all the time.

:-)

This fits well with the whole "zombies in silent vigil" thing from the temple.

[Tvtyrant]

I always wanted to run a dungeon where there was a castle under siege and then the whole thing with both armies got dropped into a pit in the ground by an earthquake. When the party comes up they see a castle surrounded by dead bodies and siege engines barely visible in the caverns darkness. When the party gets within 100 ft. of the walls "ghosts" appear and begin manning the ballistas on the wall and fire them at the party. The ghosts cannot directly attack the party but they set off traps and release constructs meant to keep invaders out. The final prize would be an orb that allows the owner to raise others as ghosts to do their bidding, and was invented originally by a necromancer so he could have ghost servants (that is why they can interact with objects but not people).

My point of the above is that if your going to throw a dungeon at them you should make it exciting an original. If its a dead city in the desert then you need reasons there was a city in a desert and why it stopped being a city, or how there is anything left if the city is old enough to be predesert.

[BRC]

A lot of this probably would have happened as people essentially went nuts. Good way to traumatize the ever-loving crap out of my players. Even better since they've already learned from my last campaign that anything supernatural is inherently going to be horrible and traumatizing.

Most of what I had still works, only now it's not anything as simple as a civil war between two sides. Instead you had countless groups fighting each other for survival as the city slid into chaos.

The most terrifying place: What was once the largest Granary in the city. People mobbed it, trying to secure the food for themselves only to be ripped to shreds by others trying to do the same.
Maybe the PC's find it full of corpses as people killed each other. If they get inside, they find row upon row of unopened silos full of long-since spoiled food. By the time the fighting calmed down enough for people to actually start removing food from the Granary, almost everybody was dead.

[Drakevarg]

Most of what I had still works, only now it's not anything as simple as a civil war between two sides. Instead you had countless groups fighting each other for survival as the city slid into chaos.

The most terrifying place: What was once the largest Granary in the city. People mobbed it, trying to secure the food for themselves only to be ripped to shreds by others trying to do the same.
Maybe the PC's find it full of corpses as people killed each other. If they get inside, they find row upon row of unopened silos full of long-since spoiled food. By the time the fighting calmed down enough for people to actually start removing food from the Granary, almost everybody was dead.

I just pray that the whole thing doesn't go over the party's heads.

[Just_Ice]

Just chill out and do it

your campaign sounds fun

[Drakevarg]

Just chill out and do it

your campaign sounds fun

Clearly you haven't read my other threads.

[Drakevarg]

So I've started mapping out the city. The whole city is pentagonal in shape (the number 5 having a symbolic importance in this civilization and by extension the campaign's plot), with the capital building in the center. It's separated into five districts by walls which extend from the corners of the capital building to the corners of the city, with gates between them.

The districts are:
The Temple District - Home of the currently-unspecified religious temple.
The Market District - Where artisans plied their trade and farmers sold their goods. Also holds the granary.
The Manor District - Home of the fabulously wealthy.
The Slums - Where the city's undesirables were sent. Also holds the prison.
The Military District - Where the city's armed forces were kept, and where siege engines were produced.

The Manor District, Military District, and Slums are all collapsed, with only the areas closest to the wall still accessible. The Slums in particular are almost completely buried, with the prison being the only remaining structure to speak of.

About half of the Market District and part of the Temple district are also buried, the end result of a magi going kamikazi and shattering part of the dome over the Market District.

Even with all that, My estimates for how many pages the city will take up comes out to 97. This is without accounting for multiple floors, or the sewers (the latter of which only occurred to me as I wrote this sentence).

Fortunately I'm pretty certain that it'll take more than one session to finish this place, so I have a few weeks to finish it. I think afterwards, I'll keep it as a module for later campaigns.

As for the mapping itself, it'll mostly just be housing with some color thrown in, important buildings notwithstanding. The houses will be, by district:

Temple - Common House (1-3 Rooms): Pandering to the masses, after all.
Market - Grand House (4-10 Rooms): Most of those who live here are artisans.
Military - None. Barracks only.
Manor - Mansions (10-20 Rooms): Duh.
Slums - Grand House (4-10 Rooms): Apartments, actually.

[The Big Dice]

<Gibber-inducing levels of detail.

All that, while very impressive, seems like a bit of a waste. Take a leaf from a (very successful) fantasy author: don't create it if you're not going to use it. Or, if you want to look at it in terms of art, try impressionism rather than technical drawing.

You've got a map, you've got districts. Put a location or two of significance in those districts and you've got plenty of material to work with. Make notes to use to fill in the spaces as you go, sure. But don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to design an entire ruined city from the ground up. Because all you really need to do is give a sense of a ruin.

People will use their imaginations to fill in the blanks that way. And that is almost always more effective than trying to do it for them.

[Drakevarg]

All that, while very impressive, seems like a bit of a waste. Take a leaf from a (very successful) fantasy author: don't create it if you're not going to use it. Or, if you want to look at it in terms of art, try impressionism rather than technical drawing.

You've got a map, you've got districts. Put a location or two of significance in those districts and you've got plenty of material to work with. Make notes to use to fill in the spaces as you go, sure. But don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to design an entire ruined city from the ground up. Because all you really need to do is give a sense of a ruin.

People will use their imaginations to fill in the blanks that way. And that is almost always more effective than trying to do it for them.

The problem is that I'm absolutely terrible at improv (when it comes to things like this, that is. I always improv NPC dialogue) and I just know my players are going to poke everything. So I need to know what they're poking beforehand.

[The Big Dice]

The problem is that I'm absolutely terrible at improv (when it comes to things like this, that is. I always improv NPC dialogue) and I just know my players are going to poke everything. So I need to know what they're poking beforehand.

There's a secret to making a good site-based horror scenario. First, you put the characters in a place they don't mind being. Second, you arrange things so they can't escape. Third, you start killing the supporting cast one by one and off camera.

So they end up stuck in this underground ruined city. They presume there's a way out, but they don't know where it is. And anyway, there's cool stuff to poke around in. Then there's a scream from outside, and when they get there that nice Halfling cleric is hanging upside down twenty feet off the ground, tied to a flagpole by his own giblets.

Your idea for sending a handful of NPCs along with them isn't a bad one. The NPCs can be the first to die horribly. And because it happens off camera, the players can't predict what it might be. The atmosphere this kind of thing builds up can be great. And it's a classic formula, used everywhere from Agatha Christie to Alien and many low budget late night horror movies.

PLus with the players concentrating on getting out or finding a place to make a stand, they won't be poking in to things.

[Drakevarg]

PLus with the players concentrating on getting out or finding a place to make a stand, they won't be poking in to things.

I dunno. Last d20 Modern campaign I was in, I woke up in an abandoned (or perhaps more accurately, massacred) complex, naked, with no memories. My goal was to get out, sure, but I wound up turning over every rock for supplies and some clue as to what the hell happened.

[Arbane]

Sounds like a cool idea.

and the fact that the leader of the tribe they intend to absorb next is 4 levels higher than them,

If they don't know this, why does it have to be the case?

You're the DM. You _are_ allowed to adjust things.

[The Big Dice]

I dunno. Last d20 Modern campaign I was in, I woke up in an abandoned (or perhaps more accurately, massacred) complex, naked, with no memories. My goal was to get out, sure, but I wound up turning over every rock for supplies and some clue as to what the hell happened.

Don't asset strip them. Like I said, put them somewhere they don't mind being first. LIke in a ruined city that's in some exotic location. Then make it difficult or near impossible to leave. Because there's a storm and random magical energy left over from the city's heyday makes teleporting dangerous. Use an NPC to demonstrate that bit in gruesome style. Then start killing NPCs off camera.

The last bit is particularly important. A scream and then finding a body is a more effective way of engaging your player's imaginations. And because it's not them suffering directly, they (hopefully) should start to feel responsible for failing to protect these likeable NPC types.

After all, if one of them dies the moment they get left alone, players will go to extraordinary lengths to not leave anyone alone. And all you have do do was sketch a location and put a Big Bad there.

[Drakevarg]

If they don't know this, why does it have to be the case?

You're the DM. You _are_ allowed to adjust things.

Because the bosses of the bandit party are Level 5. Their boss needs to be 2 levels higher than that. Why? Because it's how I run NPCs; their levels are based on their skill "rank," which goes thusly:

Amateur - Level 1 - Someone with basic skills. So a hunter, a petty thief, dumb muscle, stuff like that. Someone not even that skilled is just a commoner, and can't gain levels.

Professional - Level 3 - Someone properly trained in their skills. The standard I use here is your averaged soldier fresh out of basic training.

Expert - Level 5 - Someone pretty damned good at their job. The captain of a squad of troops is probably level 5.

Reputable in their Field - Level 7 - Someone basically considered the local master of what they do. The commander of all the military forces in a city is probably this. You won't see many non-important NPCs at this level.

Reputable - Level 9 - Someone known by pretty much everyone as a master. Very few NPCs at this level.

Legendary in their Field - Level 11 - Almost no NPCs at this level. The Big Bad of my zombie apocalypse campaign was at this level.

Legendary - Level 13 - I've yet to use this level.

Cosmically Reputable - Level 15 - My intended Big Bad for this campaign will be this level. Basically means that you're enough of a badass that people in other dimensions have heard of you.

Cosmically Legendary - Level 17 - Big enough that demon lords start worrying when you're in town.

Divinely Reputable - Level 19 - Big enough that you have the personal attention of gods.

Why yes, this is a low-powered campaign.

[Arbane]

You _are_ the same guy who's complaining about his campaign's body-count in another thread, right?

You ARE allowed to go slightly easier on your PCs. Nobody will revoke your DMing card for it.

[Drakevarg]

You _are_ the same guy who's complaining about his campaign's body-count in another thread, right?

You ARE allowed to go slightly easier on your PCs. Nobody will revoke your DMing card for it.

I didn't say I felt I was going too hard on them. I said I felt that they're dying too often. These days it's usually because they do something stupid.

[Fhaolan]

Also note that this is a ruined city. Many of the traps the party will encounter may not have been *intended* to be traps, but are now due to lack of maintenance.

For instance, they fell through the ceiling themselves. This means the ceiling is weak in places, and other things might fall through. Especially anything big enough to be angry about it when it lands on their heads. Or a large sand-clock gets accidentally activated by the party, while they're *inside* it, with moving gears and sand pouring out of holes (drilled by vermin, or perhaps the party's own actions to defeat said vermin) blocking access hatches. Stuff like that.

[Drakevarg]

Well, I've managed to reduce the size of the project from 97 pages to 64 pages by strategically collapsing more of the city. The removed areas were essentially empty anyway and I didn't want the PCs wandering into some completely uninteresting corner and having to backtrack.

Even so, here's my workload by district:

Temple - 24 Pages.
Military - 8 Pages.
Slums - 4 Pages.
Manor - 5 Pages.
Market - 20 Pages.
Capital Building - 3 Pages.

This again doesn't account for multiple floors. I'm gonna try to at least get the Temple District done this week and deal with the rest in future sessions. (Note to self: try to get the party to Level 4 by the time they finish this district.)