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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    I'm preparing for my first time as a DM and plan on basing my campaign on some undeveloped bit of backstory for a book I'm currently in the middle of writing. As such, I've added a couple of new races, am using a set of custom gods and my own homebrew class, the Myrmidon, a melee-based class intended for taking out casters, named for the warriors under Achilles in the Trojan War, and borrowing some elements from the class of the same name in the Fire Emblem game series.
    I've been having some issues keeping this thing balanced, and as my first post on the GitP forum, I thought it'd be a good idea to throw this out here for some advice.
    And if someone could please tell me how to do one of those level stat charts on these forums, please let me know.


    Myrmidon

    The elite of the mercenary clans of the northern plains, myrmidons are a class of fighters who specialize in the termination of opposing mages. Their expert swordsmanship is often considered a thing of beauty, combining strength and skill with dance-like grace and agility. They eschew heavy armor except as a training device, often wearing as little metal armor as necessary so as to make themselves less conductive towards magic, relying upon speed and nimbleness to avoid harm from more traditional melee opponents.

    Adventures- While the majority of myrmidons serve in mercenary armies that are at the beck and call of anyone wealthy enough to afford their services, it is not uncommon for young myrmidons to strike out on their own in order to gain experience or simply for the sake of adventure. Individual myrmidons are also sometimes hired out to aid an adventuring party, and some have even been known to take so well to the lifestyle that they stay on as adventurers.

    Characteristics- Myrmidons are disciplined, mercenary warriors who rely more upon agility and skill with their weapons (usually a sword of some kind) in order to protect themselves from harm. Rigorous training and mental discipline gives them the ability to avoid and resist spells. As myrmidons grow in experience, they become more able to avoid spells and their skills with weaponry become so great that they are more prone to landing critical hits.

    Alignment- Myrmidons are generally of the lawful neutral alignment. Their life as mercenaries necessitates neutrality to political affairs, while the nature of their training requires discipline and an adherence to a strict code of conduct.

    Religion- Myrmidons arenít particularly religious as a rule, as giving too much precedence to any god risks offending potential customers, though they do maintain a healthy respect for the Divines. When they do worship a god they usually worship either Jinsas, Mara, or Mortreth.

    Background- The myrmidons are a clan-based, specialized form of sword-for-hire, the methods of their training kept a careful secret and rarely passed on to outsiders. Most myrmidons are the children of other myrmidons, and at a young age are made apprentice to a trusted member of the clan. Upon reaching adulthood and after years of rigorous training they are finally allowed to join the army, though some first choose to adventure for a year or two first. Myrmidons who have left the mercenary life behind them may sometimes be persuaded to teach others the skills of the myrmidon, though those who do so and their resulting apprentices tend to be looked down on by those who remain among the clans. Myrmidons may have a sense of respect and camaraderie amongst myrmidons of other clans, but they only feel a true sense of kinship with those of their own clan.

    Races- The first myrmidons came from the human mercenary Senharon clan during the Necromancer war, therefore most myrmidons are humans. While orcs and many dwarves are accustomed to the mercenary lifestyle, the classesí emphasis on maneuverability over defense does not appeal to either of these races as a whole, and so there are few dwarf or orc myrmidons. Like their human ancestors, half-orcs are more open towards different varieties of combat, so it is not unusual to find a half-orc with some contact with myrmidons to become one as well. While elves might make for ideal myrmidons, the fairest race finds the whole concept of easily eliminating magic by steel alone to be distasteful and therefore rarely ever become myrmidons. Half-elves, on the other hand, often find the idea much less offensive and half-elf myrmidons can be found on occasion. Gatas rarely possess the discipline required for military life, though the few gata mercenaries that exist occasionally train as myrmidons, as well as those gata adventurers of a more combative nature. Gnomes, halflings and nag-az rarely become myrmidons.

    Other Classes- Myrmidons are usually friendly with other melee-based classes, particularly fighters and barbarians, who often share their battle-eagerness and warrior spirit. It is not uncommon for fighters and myrmidons to develop friendly rivalries. Though paladins donít approve of the mercenary lifestyle, they do respect them for their battle prowess and discipline, and myrmidons do the same for the paladinsí skill and dedication to their chosen cause. Due to their shared respect for discipline and honor, myrmidons and monks work well together. Myrmidons always work to remain respectful of anotherís religion, and so are often on good terms with clerics. Their training as mage-killers often leave myrmidons with a less than respectful attitude towards spellcasters like druids, wizards and especially sorcerers, and the three classes are often of a decidedly hostile nature towards myrmidons. Myrmidons tolerate rogues as a necessary evil, though they tend to view them as cowardly, and bards are seen as annoyingly foppish.

    Role- The role of the myrmidon in a party is to eliminate hostile spellcasters as early in the fight as possible. They usually begin a fight by using their Valiant Charge to move into the middle and back lines of an enemy formation, relying upon their saving throws and special abilities to avoid taking magic damage and their high dexterity to avoid damage from melee units. When there are no mages to fight myrmidons can also hold their own in melee combat, and can easily stand in for other melee based classes. Myrmidons are at their best when working in concert with other melee fighters, so that once they have rushed through enemy lines to deal with the mages their allies can keep the enemy warriors occupied and prevent the myrmidon from being flanked from both sides.

    Game Rule Information

    Myrmidonís have the following game statistics:

    Abilities- Strength is important for myrmidons, as they excel at melee combat. Dexterity is essential for the myrmidon, as they rely upon agility and maneuverability to avoid being injured rather than heavy armor. Constitution is good for high hit points, which myrmidons are in need of due to their preference for little armor. Wisdom is essential for the myrmidon, as their focused nature is necessary for their ability to avoid and shrug off spells.

    Alignment- Generally Lawful Neutral
    Hit Die- d10

    Class Skills
    The myrmidonís class skills (and the key ability for each) are as follows: Climb (Str), Craft (Weaponry) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Swim (Str), Heal (Wis), Profession (Military) (Wis), Concentration (Con), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

    Skill Points at First Level- (3 + Int modifier) x 4

    Skill Points at Each Additional Modifier- 3 + Int modifier

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the myrmidon:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency- Myrmidons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light and medium armor, bucklers and light shields.
    Levels in Myrmidon count as levels in fighters when determining for feats such as Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization.

    Bonus Feats- At 1st level, 5th level, and every fifth level thereafter, a myrmidon may choose an extra feat from the list of fighter feats as if he were a fighter of that level.

    Traveled Soldier- Because of their extensive travels throughout the land, many myrmidons take up practice with some of the worldís less common weaponry. At 1st level, a myrmidon gains proficiency with one exotic weapon of their choice.

    Sense Magic- Much of myrmidon training requires developing an ability to sense and anticipate magical auras. Once per day, a myrmidon may use Detect Magic as a spell-like ability as if he were a wizard of that level.

    Sword as My Shield- While myrmidons are trained in the use of shields, they typically prefer to fight with both hands on a single weapon so as to maximize their lethality against spellcasters. In order to better defend themselves against other melee specialists, myrmidons learn to use their weapons for both attack and defense. At level 2 add +1 to AC when wielding a weapon with both hands.

    Spell Survival- Myrmidons are well trained in defense against magic attacks. At 3rd level, when a Myrmidon is allowed a Saving Check against magic, add +1 to his saving throw. This ability may only be used once per encounter.

    Valiant Charge- At level 4, a Myrmidon may make a charge without taking a penalty to AC once a day. At level 8 he may do it twice a day, three times at level 12, and four times at level 16. At 16th level and if the myrmidon is allowed to move at his maximum base land speed, he may move through one enemy occupied square without provoking an attack of opportunity while performing a valiant charge.

    Field Medic- On the battlefield, it is vital for a myrmidon to be able to provide emergency medical aid to badly wounded comrades. For every four levels of Myrmidon, add +1 to Heal checks.

    Unencumbered- Much of myrmidon training is performed while wearing armor. At 5th level, halve any armor check penalties that a myrmidon receives for wearing light or medium armor.

    Magic Tempered- At 6th level, add +1 to Fortitude saves against Evocation or Abjuration effects.

    Greater Spell Survival- At 12th level, a myrmidonís skill against magic has increased dramatically. Once per encounter, you may add your Wisdom modifier (maximum of 2) to any Saving throw against magic. This does not stack with the initial Spell Survival ability.

    Fight Master- Every myrmidon has a weapon that they prefer over every other. At 14th level, a myrmidon gains Greater Weapon Focus or Greater Weapon Specialization to the weapon of his choice if he fulfills the perquisites for it.

    Restraint Release- While myrmidons do not fight in heavier armors, they do train in them so as to improve their movements in battle. At 14th level, for every armor type less than his maximum proficiency that a myrmidon wears he gains a +1 to AC.

    Warrior's Foresight- Due to a myrmidons mastery of the battlefield, he develops a sixth sense that helps him dodge unexpected blows. Add Wisdom bonus (if any) to AC. This effect can only be used while wearing light or medium armor.

    Battle-Hardened Will - Myrmidons are veterans of war, fiercely independent, and have had to survive some truly despicable sights. This has hardened their resolve and gives them a +2 to Will saves.
    Sword as My Shield II- A veteran myrmidonís weapon is as much a means of defense as it is a means of attack. At level 16, add +3 to AC when wielding a weapon with both hands.

    Weapon Master- Veteran myrmidons are so skilled with their favored weapons that, while wielding any weapon that they have Greater Weapon Focus or Specialization in, they double its critical threat range and gain +1 to the secondary attack roll on critical hits.

    Human Myrmidon Starting Package:
    Armor- Breastplate (+5 AC, +3 Max Dex, Armor Check Penalty -4, speed 20 ft., 30 lbs.)
    Weapons- Longsword (1d8, 19-20/x2, 4 lbs., one handed, Slashing)
    Skill Selections:
    Climb- Rank 2 (Str), -4 ACP
    Craft (Weaponry)- Rank 1 (Int)
    Heal- Rank 3 (Wis)
    Intimidate- Rank 2 (Cha)
    Jump- Rank 2 (Str), -4 ACP
    Spot- Rank 3 (Wis)
    Swim- Rank 1 (Str), -8 ACP
    Move Silently (cc)- Rank 1 (Dex), -4 ACP
    Use Magic Device (cc)- Rank 1 (Ch)

    Feat- Power Attack
    Bonus Feat (Myrmidon)- Improved Initiative
    Bonus Feat (Human)- Cleave
    Gear- Backpack, water skin, one dayís trail rations, bedroll, sack, flint and steel
    Gold-2d4

    Myrmidon
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Bonus Feat, Traveled Soldier

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Magic Sense, Sword as my Shield

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Spell Survival

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Valiant Charge 1/day, Field Medic

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat, Unencumbered

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Magic Tempered

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Valiant Charge 2/day

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Greater Spell Survival, Valiant Charge 3/day

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Restraint Release

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat, Fight Master

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Valiant Charge 4/day

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Battle-Hardened Will, Battle Foresight

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Sword as my Shield

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat, Weapon Master[/table]
    Last edited by Slayer Lord; 2011-05-03 at 02:44 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Well, I don't want to be too harsh because I can only assume this is one of your first homebrews. And it is a pretty cool idea. A warrior who is focused on taking out spellcasters is good for the game, since spellcasters are very strong compared to most characters.

    But this is really, really bad. I love the thought that you've put into all of the stuff at the top. Clearly you've figured out how such a class will fit into your campaign setting, which is very important for any new class. But there's really no other way to put it. It's a bad class, and quite frankly there's really nothing to salvage. But fear not, because I hope I can help you figure out why it's a bad class, and then you can go make a better class!

    In the order things jump out at me:

    ē The role is good and bad. Taking out spellcasters is good, but that can't be your only shtick. Just like the fighter is much maligned because all he does is fight, and when there's no fighting to be done he doesn't have anything to do (there's a lot of other reasons the fighter is bad but let's stick with that for now). If you've got a class which hypothetically is incredibly powerful against spellcasters, you don't balance it by making it bad at every other part of the game. When there are spellcasters to fight the player is in easy mode and gets bored, and when there aren't any spellcasters he can't contribute.

    ē Skill Points. 3 + Int skill points is a bad idea. The thing to take away from this, though, is not that challenging fundamental ideas of the game is wrong. The thing that you should take away is to pick your battles. Every single class and prestige class that has ever been printed ever has either 2, 4, 6, or 8 skill points per level. That's a BIG precedent. If you're going to challenge that, it had better be for a really good reason, which this isn't. Pick your battles when it comes to departures from the way things are usually done, and your classes will mesh better with the printed stuff.

    ē Travelled Soldier comes at first level, so it should really just be a proficiency. Not a class feature.

    ē Your saving throw progressions are messed up, too. This one is a little more serious than the skill points thing because it makes it very hard to evaluate the class compared to other base classes. There are only two saving throw progressions in the game normally, good and bad. For an example of each, look at the fighter's Fort and Will saves. Again, it's not an inherently bad idea to challenge fundamental mechanics, but unless there's a really good reason to it it just adds confusion. Standards are standards for a reason.

    ē Sense Magic sucks. Nobody will ever care about being able to cast detect magic once a day. It's a cantrip. A CANTRIP. Give it at will as a flavour thing if you want, but it's not a class feature. Nobody cares.

    ē To save time, I'm just going to make a list of all of the class features whose only benefit is a small numerical adjustment. These sorts of abilities, well, aren't abilities. They're easy to write (they write themselves) but they're bad for the player and bad for the game in different ways. For the player in the class, they're boring. A player who takes a level in a class and gets a +1 to his Heal skill when the wizard just got a new spell level will be spitting rocks. You should always try to make sure the player gets something cool and unique when he levels up, not just a small number boost. Secondly, it's bad for the game because the only effect is to shift the RNG. RNG-shifting abilities really only damage the game in the long run because they change the parameters for success and defeat. If too many of them pile up on the assumptions that already exist in the rules, you'll find a character off the RNG entirely, which is a bad thing. Not that a +1 here or there is going to destroy the game (in fact it's so trivial as to be pretty much meaningless) but you should always avoid these sorts of trap abilities in designing something.

    These class features include: Sword as My Shield (also suffers from no type on the bonus), Spell Survival (which may be one of the most underwhelming abilities I've ever seen: +1 to a save once per encounter?!), Valiant Charge, Field Medic, Unencumbered, Magic Tempered (which is waaaay too situational and not even something the player would know, which means the DM needs to keep track both of the school of the spell and the conditional bonuses on the player's saves, which is frankly way too much extra work for a DM running an encounter), Greater Spell Survival, Restraint Release (actually most of these don't have bonus types), Warrior's Foresight (which comes absurdly late), and Battle Hardened Will.

    As you may have noticed, that's basically the entire class. That's the key problem here. This class doesn't let you DO anything. It gives you slightly higher numbers to your saves and skills and armour. But it doesn't let you DO ANYTHING.

    ē*A few of the class feature names don't sync up with the names on the table. On that note, it's annoying having to look at the table to see when something comes online. I find it works well to write "At 14th level, a myrmidon gains..."

    ē The only other class features are bonus fighter feats. Which is bad because if for whatever reason all you want are fighter bonus feats, you can be a fighter.

    ē Your table is not a table, which is understandable if you haven't tried to make one on these boards before.

    Go here to find an automated table maker (Just select GITP).

    Like I said before, I love the attention to detail that you've put in, all the way down to the starting package. But this is really just a very bad class. There's nothing here. It's a fighter with less bonus feats and some very small bonuses to numbers. Why would someone want to play this?

    If you have questions about how to change things or rewrite stuff, I'd be glad to help. For another look at the same concept, check out this class, which might give you inspiration. I've also created an antimage class (not to selfpromote too blatantly) which you can find here. It's also got a tutorial stapled to it which might be helpful.

    Good luck and happy homebrewing!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Welcome to the Playground! Here's the table stuff you're looking for:

    {table=head]Header1|Header2
    R1C1|R1C2
    R2C1|R2C2[/table]

    Quote my post to see the code I used, then extend to suit your desired number of rows and columns.

    OK, Kellus gave you a pretty good assessment of your class. I agree with basically everything he said, although I'm of the position that your class is salvageable. Also, since this is your first class, just focus for now on learning stuff and trying things out to see how they work. Don't worry too much about the finished product. To offer some guidance, I'd suggest a game plan for you:

    1. For the desired role of your class, (mage slayer), and the place you're coming from in building it (start with fighter, depart from there), you're going to need to understand that there are VERY DRAMATIC power differences between PHB classes that the PHB does not tell you about. Specifically, there's a large power gap between fighter and wizard. I recommend you do some research. Read about JaronK's Tier System of Classes to learn about the difference in effectiveness between the classes, then read LogicNinja's Guide to Wizards, to get a better understanding of what the myrmidon's opponents are capable of. Do a forum search for "fighter vs. wizard" and read a couple of the threads that come up. As Sun Tzu would say, you must know your opponent and know the battlefield.

    2. Sun Tzu would also say, know yourself. Which isn't really related to my second point, but anyhow I thought it sounded cool so I threw it in there. The power level you've got going on with the myrmidon right now is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay low. As Kellus mentioned, you're focusing right now on small bonuses to existing capabilities, whereas a better focus would be the creation of new abilities. Start thinking about the following core competencies, and create abilities to provide the myrmidon with some options in these areas.
    • Hitting nearby enemies with a pointy stick
    • Hitting far-away enemies with a thrown or propelled pointy stick
    • Avoiding the pointy sticks of others
    • Avoiding the nasty "now you die - or worse" spells of casters
    • Recovering from wounds or negative status conditions
    • Moving around quickly in the tactical space
    • Traveling rapidly from place to place in the strategic space
    • Avoiding detection by people who want to kill you
    • Finding enemies who don't want to be found
    • Escaping from bonds and confinement
    • Bypassing barriers and obstacles
    • Confining or hampering the movement and actions of others
    • Convincing people to do what you want
    • Figuring out what to do when no one knows what to do


    Now, the myrmidon doesn't have to be absolutely amazing at these, or even capable of every one of these (although it's worth remembering that wizards are in fact absolutely amazing at every one of these except recovering from wounds, and have some options even for that). But it should be capable in most of these areas, and extremely good at several of them.

    3. Once you get some good ideas, create a second draft, post it here, and get some more feedback.

    You'll probably revise your first class several times before you're happy with it; that's a natural part of the learning curve as you develop the skill of class design. After you have a few sessions of DMing under your belt, that will probably give you a lot more insight as well. It's gonna be fun!
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-04-18 at 03:40 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Thanks for the suggestions. I'll work something out as soon as my school work allows it.

    Hmmm...Now that I think about it, the key to screwing over a mage is high spell resistance (a la V and the Death Knight), so perhaps a special ability for increasing spell resistance as the myrmidon gains levels.

    I also thought about some kind of ability to allow the myrmidon to deflect certain spells while wielding a magic weapon, but that seemed like it might be OC. But then again...

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    There are already a couple classes that are mage-killers. I'm not saying you can't make your own, but you may want to look at them to get ideas and to avoid duplicating an already existing class.

    Occult Slayer from Complete Warrior
    Mage-Killer from Magic of Faerun
    Mage Slayer feat chain from Complete Arcane

    You have a goal, a melee character that excels at fighting spellcasters. Now think about how it achieves that goal. To be honest it will be hard to make a good mage-killer without the class having it's own power set (incarnum, binding, psionics, sublime, magic, etc) just because magic is so versatile that you will have to create several class features to level out the playing field. It's not impossible but casters have so many potential tools you will need class features that can answer many of them.

    Make sure to address the following if your class is designed to be a threat to casters (to add to what Jiruku said):
    - Compensate for caster movement modes (flight, teleport, etherealness)
    - Range, how will your class get into melee with a caster and hold them there
    - Survivability, casters are loaded with save or die and save or suck spells.
    - Magic that makes casters better warriors then some melee classes, Righteous Might and Polymorph being the 2 biggies.
    - Flexibility, have more then 1 method for achieving your goal. 1 gimmick will be foiled if relied on to heavily then you end of with a broken class.

    I'm sure there is more. Have fun and good luck!
    Last edited by Arbitrarious; 2011-04-20 at 06:23 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Id go through this a reword it at the least. Example being that sword as my shield is said to only grant one bonus at 2nd and never scales. Thats a crappy ability. Yet on the "list" of developments you have there it shows it scaling a few time to increase. Thats good, but you need to word that into the initial ability instead of just letting it be inferred.

    I also agree with everything Kellus said.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Definitely use the Mage-Slayer feats from Complete Arcane.

    Instead of a 1/day Detect Magic, perhaps they can constantly detect the presence, location and strength of any magic within a certain area around them?
    Start at 20', plus 5' per Myrmidon level?

    Maybe they could have an ability which negates the casting of a spell which would effect them and gives them a boost of some sort. Temporary hit points, stat boost, etc.

    An aura that disrupts the casting of enemies. They need to make a Concentration check (DC 10+Ranks in Intimidate, maybe?) or lose the spell slot entirely, also preferably giving the Myrmidon a boost.

    Make Valorous Charge per encounter, at least.

    Anti-Magic Smite. You make a smite attack, with the added bonus of a targeted Dispel Magic effect, with the bonus being your class level plus Wisdom modifier.
    It also delays any spells which would be cast in reaction until after it hits.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Just some sidenotes -
    • Consider Blindsense- This would allow a myrmidon tp sense any creature nearby without actually negating concealment. So, the wizard would still be targetable without being visible.
    • Warlock abilities - Warlocks have two dispelling abilities: reaving and voracious. They are somewhat higher level (starting at 6th and 11th, I believe), but they allow the warlock to make a dispel check against active effects. On a successful dispel, the dispel either injures the caster based on the strength of the spell, or boosts the warlock based on the strength of the spell. Regardless, a spell absorption mechanic could be cool.
    • Spellthief abilities - They have an absorption mechanic that fuels their own magic. Might not fit with your ideas, but there are many ways to combat a caster in their abilities. For example, a spellthief can just steal a spell, the myrmidon should have a similar ability at least to remove a spell with a unique kind of attack
    • Woodland Stride - Rangers and druids have an ability to ignore natural obstacles that would affect movement. Perhaps, a type of stride which ignores spell effects would be ideal.
    • Magic items - the myrmidon will need to be able to use magic items to combat wizards, so stay away from any pure anti-magic effects.


    So, maybe this can help give you some direction. Good luck with your rewrites.
    Last edited by El_Pablo; 2011-04-21 at 06:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Here, I made you a table. Quote my post, then copy+paste the code into yours.
    One thing I just noticed: you didn't use the standard save progression. I used it for the table.
    Myrmidon
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Bonus Feat, Traveled Soldier

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Magic Sense, Sword as my Shield

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Spell Survival

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Valiant Charge 1/day, Field Medic

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat, Unencumbered

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Magic Tempered

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Valiant Charge 2/day

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Greater Spell Survival, Valiant Charge 3/day

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Restraint Release

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat, Fight Master

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Valiant Charge 4/day

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Battle-Hardened Will, Battle Foresight

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Sword as my Shield

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat, Weapon Master[/table]
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Slayer Lord View Post
    Hmmm...Now that I think about it, the key to screwing over a mage is high spell resistance (a la V and the Death Knight), so perhaps a special ability for increasing spell resistance as the myrmidon gains levels.
    Not really. OotS characters are notoriously unoptimised (and on top of that V is impatient). There are a ton of spells which ignore spell resistance, as well as ways to shut it down temporarily, but until recently V just took all the flashy spells and ignored everything else. For instance, if (s)he had cast forcecage on the death knight then (s)he would have won instantly.

    What spell resistance does do is... make it harder for your allies to buff you.

    I also thought about some kind of ability to allow the myrmidon to deflect certain spells while wielding a magic weapon, but that seemed like it might be OC. But then again...
    OC?

    Take a look at the Tome Samurai, which is intended to stand on even ground with spellcasters.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-04-22 at 10:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    The Hexblade also has some good anti spellcaster abilities you might want to consider adding.
    Mettle (Effectively Evasion for fort and will saves)
    Arcane Resistance (Cha bonus on will saves vs spells or spell like abilities)
    Also I second the post a few above me about checking out classes like the occult slayer
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    Default Re: Myrmidon 3.5 Custom Class- Critiques Please

    For my first stint as a DM I've created a custom class centered around mage killing, the idea coming from a character in a book that I'm working on, which the campaign itself is based loosely upon. I posted this some time ago, realized that it needed a LOT of work, and this is the result

    Whereas the previous version was horribly underpowered, I fear that I've actually overpowered it this time. Well, hopefully overpowered proves easier to balance out than way underpowered.

    The Myrmidon's party roles should be: Mage Killer, Melee Combatant, and Scout, so for the latter I stole a few things from the Ranger and Barbarian class. I'm not sure that I invested enough in melee combat stuff though, and now that I think about it giving them fighter bonus feats might not have been a good idea on my part.

    After reviewing other mage-slayer classes and noticing that they tend to have a special power that aids them in this, I figured that ki was the best way to go for their power, as it was the most non-magic-like power that I could find going through all the classes. That, and plus in my campaign/book world they use something similar to ki as a means to keep the balance between magic users and nonmagic users. Power of the body vs. power of the mind, as it were.
    Actually, the myrmidon's in my world also have this thing called "reading the flow," where they can sort of anticipate what a mage is going to do next and where the spell will go by "seeing," the flow of magic about the caster's body, but I really have no idea how to implement that here, nor have I really figured out how it works in the book either. Luckily the campaign's setting takes place well before the book and only a (relatively) short time after the myrmidons first appeared, so I guess I can just say that they haven't developed quite that far yet.

    So yeah, let me know how this looks and what can be done to improve it. Thanks in advance.


    Myrmidon
    The elite of the mercenary clans of the northern plains, myrmidons are a class of fighters who specialize in the termination of opposing mages. Their expert swordsmanship is often considered a thing of beauty, combining strength and skill with dance-like grace and agility. They eschew heavy armor except as a training device, often wearing as little metal armor as necessary so as to make themselves less conductive towards magic, relying upon speed and nimbleness to avoid harm from more traditional melee opponents.

    Adventures- While the majority of myrmidons serve in mercenary armies that are at the beck and call of anyone wealthy enough to afford their services, it is not uncommon for young myrmidons to strike out on their own in order to gain experience or simply for the sake of adventure. Individual myrmidons are also sometimes hired out to aid an adventuring party, and some have even been known to take so well to the lifestyle that they stay on as adventurers.

    Characteristics- Myrmidons are disciplined, mercenary warriors who rely more upon agility and skill with their weapons (usually a sword of some kind) in order to protect themselves from harm. Rigorous training and mental discipline not dissimilar to that of monks gives them the ability to channel their ki in order to avoid and resist spells. As myrmidons grow in experience, they become more able to avoid spells and their skills with weaponry become so great that they are more prone to landing critical hits.

    Alignment- Myrmidons are generally of the lawful neutral alignment. Their life as mercenaries necessitates neutrality to political affairs, while the nature of their training requires discipline and an adherence to a strict code of conduct.

    Religion- Myrmidons arenít particularly religious as a rule, as giving too much precedence to any god risks offending potential customers, though they do maintain a healthy respect for the Divines. When they do worship a god they usually worship either Jinsas, Mara, or Mortreth.

    Background- The myrmidons are a clan-based, specialized form of sword-for-hire, the methods of their training kept a careful secret and rarely passed on to outsiders. Most myrmidons are the children of other myrmidons, and at a young age are made apprentice to a trusted member of the clan. Upon reaching adulthood and after years of rigorous training they are finally allowed to join the army, though some first choose to adventure for a year or two first. Myrmidons who have left the mercenary life behind them may sometimes be persuaded to teach others the skills of the myrmidon, though those who do so and their resulting apprentices tend to be looked down on by those who remain among the clans. Myrmidons may have a sense of respect and camaraderie amongst myrmidons of other clans, but they only feel a true sense of kinship with those of their own clan.

    Races- The first myrmidons came from the human mercenary Senharon clan during the Necromancer War, therefore most myrmidons are humans. While orcs and many dwarves are accustomed to the mercenary lifestyle, the classesí emphasis on maneuverability over defense does not appeal to either of these races as a whole, and so there are few dwarf or orc myrmidons. Like their human ancestors, half-orcs are more open towards different varieties of combat, so it is not unusual to find a half-orc with some contact with myrmidons to become one as well. While elves might make for ideal myrmidons, the fairest race finds the whole concept of easily eliminating magic by steel alone to be distasteful and therefore rarely ever become myrmidons. Half-elves, on the other hand, often find the idea much less offensive and half-elf myrmidons can be found on occasion. Gatas rarely possess the discipline required for military life, though the few gata mercenaries that exist occasionally train as myrmidons as well as those gata adventurers of a more combative nature. Gnomes, halflings and nagaz never become myrmidons.

    Other Classes- Myrmidons are usually friendly with other melee-based classes, particularly fighters and myrmidons, who often share their battle-eagerness and warrior spirit. It is not uncommon for fighters and myrmidons to develop friendly rivalries. Though paladins donít approve of the mercenary lifestyle, they do respect them for their battle prowess and discipline, and myrmidons do the same for the paladinsí skill and dedication to their chosen cause. Due to their shared respect for discipline and honor, myrmidons and monks work well together. Myrmidons always work to remain respectful of anotherís religion, and so are often on good terms with clerics. Their training as mage-killers often leave myrmidons with a less than respectful attitude towards spellcasters like druids, wizards and especially sorcerers, and the three classes are often of a decidedly hostile nature towards myrmidons. Myrmidons tolerate rogues as a necessary evil, though they tend to view them as cowardly, and bards are seen as annoying and foppish.

    Role- The role of the myrmidon in a party is to eliminate hostile spellcasters as early in the fight as possible. They usually begin a fight by using their Valiant Charge to move into the middle and back lines of an enemy formation, relying upon their saving throws and special abilities to avoid taking magic damage and their high dexterity to avoid damage from melee units. When there are no mages to fight myrmidons can also hold their own in melee combat, and can easily stand in for other melee based classes and also be used as decent scouts. Myrmidons are at their best when working in concert with other melee fighters so that once they have rushed through enemy lines to deal with the mages their allies can keep the enemy warriors occupied and prevent the myrmidon from being flanked from both sides.

    Game Rule Information

    Myrmidonís have the following game statistics:
    Abilities- Strength is important for myrmidons, as they excel at melee combat. Dexterity is essential for the myrmidon, as they rely upon agility and maneuverability to avoid being injured rather than heavy armor. Constitution is good for high hit points, which myrmidons are in need of due to their preference for little armor. Wisdom is essential for the myrmidon, as their focused nature is necessary for ki control.
    Alignment- Generally Lawful Neutral
    Hit Die- d10
    Class Skills
    The myrmidonís class skills (and the key ability for each) are as follows: Craft (Weaponry) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Greography) (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Heal (Wis), Profession (Military) (Wis), Concentration (Con), Listen (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Magical Device (Cha)
    Skill Points at First Level- (4 + Int modifier) x 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Modifier- 3 + Int modifier

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the myrmidon:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency- Myrmidons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and one exotic weapon of their choice, and with light and medium armor, bucklers and light shields.
    Levels in Myrmidon count as levels in fighters when determining for feats such as Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization.

    Sense Magic- Much of myrmidon training requires developing an ability to sense and anticipate magical auras. A myrmidon may use Detect Magic as a spell-like ability as a free action, using myrmidon levels in place of caster levels. At 10th level a myrmidon may automatically use Sense Magic as if he had been maintaining a Detect Magic spell for three rounds
    Spell Hardened- At 1st level add your Wisdom modifier (if any, minimum of one) to all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.
    Track- At 1st level a myrmidon gains the Track feat as a bonus feat.
    Field Medic- On the battlefield, it is vital for a myrmidon to be able to provide emergency medical aid to badly wounded comrades. At 2nd level add +5 to all heal checks and heal 1d6 points of damage on a successful check.
    Fast Movement- At 2nd level increase base land speed by 10 ft when not wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load
    Endurance- At 2nd level a myrmidon automatically gains the Endurance Feat
    Sword as My Shield- 3rd level. While myrmidons are trained in the use of shields, they typically prefer to fight with both hands on a single weapon so as to maximize their lethality against spellcasters. In order to better defend themselves against other melee specialists, myrmidons learn to use their weapons for both attack and defense. Add a +3 parry bonus to AC when wielding a weapon with both hands. At 6th level increase this bonus to +6.
    Bonus Feats-At 3rd level and every third level afterwards a myrmidon may choose an extra feat from the list of fighter feats as if he were a fighter of that level.
    Mage Slayer- At 3rd level a Myrmidon automatically takes the Mage Slayer feat even if he does not fulfill the featís perquisites.
    Valiant Charge- At level 4, a Myrmidon may make a charge without taking a penalty to AC once per encounter. At level 8 he may do it twice an encounter, three times at level 12, and four times at level 16. At 12th level if the myrmidon is allowed to move at his maximum base land speed, he may move through one enemy occupied square without provoking an attack of opportunity while performing a valiant charge.
    Disruption- At 4th level a myrmidon gains the ability to channel his ki into an enemy spellcaster through his weapon. Upon a successful attack the caster must make a successful Will Save or be unable to cast spells for 1d4 rounds + half the Myrmidonís Wisdom modifier (min. 1). The DC is 10 + the myrmidonís level + the myrmidonís Wisdom mod (min. 1). This ability may only be used once per day at 4th level, 2/day at 7th level, and 3/day at 9th level
    Unencumbered- Much of myrmidon training is performed while wearing armor. At 5th level, halve any armor check penalties that a myrmidon receives for wearing light or medium armor.
    Element Resistance- At 5th level a myrmidon gains resistance to cold 5, electricity, fire 5, acid 5, and sonic 5 if damage is dealt by a spell or spell-like ability.
    Enchantment Expert- Myrmidons often utilize magical devices to defeat spellcasters. At 5th level a myrmidon gains +5 to all Use Magical Device Checks
    Slay Enchantment- At 6th level a myrmidon learns how to use his ki to break enchantments. Upon a successful melee attack the blow can have the effect of a Dispel Magic spell (replacing caster level with myrmidon level), adding Wisdom modifier to the dispel check. At 12th level this abilityís effect becomes that of a greater dispel magic spell. This ability may be used 1/day at 6th level, 2/day at 10th level, and 3/day at 12th.
    Blind Fighting- To counter the powers of invisibility, experienced myrmidons learn to focus their ki in order to fight without sight. At 6th level myrmidons gain the Blind Fight feat if they donít have it already.
    Woodland Stride- Starting at 7th level, a myrmidon may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.
    Swift Tracker- At 8th level, a myrmidon can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal Ė5 penalty. He takes only a Ė10 penalty (instead of the normal Ė20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.
    Cleave Magic- At 8th level a myrmidon gains the Pierce Magical Protection feat even if he does not possess all the required requisites
    Evasion- At 9th level, a myrmidon can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragonís fiery breath or a fireball), he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the myrmidon is wearing medium, light armor or no armor. A helpless myrmidon (such as one who is unconscious or paralysed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.
    Fight Master- Every myrmidon has a weapon that they prefer over every other. At 10th level, a myrmidon gains Greater Weapon Focus or Greater Weapon Specialization to the weapon of his choice if he fulfills the perquisites for it.
    Channel Conviction- By channeling his ki into his favored weapon, a 10th level myrmidonís weapon is treated as his alignment for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    Adrenaline- At 11th level a myrmidon gains the ability to control his adrenaline flow with his ki. Once per encounter a myrmidon may take a turn to make a Concentration check to increase his Strength and Dexterity by 6 for 1d6 rounds. Success on a DC of 15.
    Survivor- At 12th level a myrmidon has learned to coordinate the strength of his mind with the strength of his body in order to become highly resistant to the deadliest spells. Add your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1) to all Fortitude saves against instantly fatal or debilitating spells such as death touch, flesh to stone, phantasmal killer and symbol of death.
    Shock Fang- The signature ability of the myrmidon, a 15th level myrmidon can fire a blast of concentrated ki from his favored weapon in a line up 15 ft + 3ft per Strength modifier (max of 15 extra feet) or until it hits something. The attack is made as if making a typical melee attack but using the myrmidonís Wisdom modifier if it is higher, and damage is calculated in the same manner, but dealing force damage instead of the weaponís usual melee damage + 1d12 extra damage. This attack can only be used against an opponent in a straight line from the user and within his line of sight, but can be fired into the air. If anything intercepts the shock fang before it reaches its target (for example, a casterís familiar or an invisible barrier), it is treated as if the shock fang was made against the obstruction instead of the target, and against inanimate objects is considered a sunder attempt. A spellcaster struck by the shock fang casts spells at -1d4 spell levels (minimum of 1st level) and takes a -5 to Concentration checks for 1d6 rounds afterwards. Upon using this ability the myrmidon is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If the Shock Fang is used in conjunction with any weapon other than a magic weapon or one made of adamantine it is destroyed. This ability can only be used 1/day at 15th level, 2/day at 17th level and 3/day at 20th level.
    Weapon Master- 19th level. Veteran myrmidons are so skilled with their favored weapons that, while wielding any weapon that they have Greater Weapon Focus or Specialization in, they double its critical threat range and add their Wisdom modifier to the secondary attack roll on critical hits.
    Spell Eater- At 20th level a myrmidonís ability to resist magic and his skill with ki has become so immense that, once per day, any damaging spell or spell-like ability must make a Will Save (DC 10 + myrmidonís level) or the spell fails to do damage and the myrmidon gains temporary hitpoints equal to half the damage the myrmidon would have taken.

    Human Myrmidon Starting Package:
    Armor- Breastplate (+5 AC, +3 Max Dex, Armor Check Penalty -4, speed 20 ft., 30 lbs.)
    Weapons- Longsword (1d8, 19-20/x2, 4 lbs., one handed, Slashing)
    Skill Selections-
    {table=head]Skill|Ranks|Ability|[B]Armor Check Penalty
    Concentration|2|Con|n/a
    Craft (Weaponry)|1|Int|n/a
    Heal|3|Wis|n/a
    Intimidate|2|Cha|n/a
    Jump|2|Str|- 4
    Spot|3|Wis|n/a
    Use Magic Device|3|Cha|n/a
    Move Silently(cc)|1|Dex|- 4
    Swim(cc)|1|Str|- 8[/table]


    Feat- Improved Initiative
    Bonus Feat (Human)- Cleave
    Gear- Backpack, water skin, one dayís trail rations, bedroll, sack, flint and steel
    Gold-2d4

    Myrmidon
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Sense Magic, Spell Hardened, Track

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +2
    |Field Medic, Fast Movement, Endurance

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Sword as My Shield, Bonus Feat, Mage Slayer

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +3
    |Valiant Charge x1, Disruption 1/day

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +4
    |Unencumbered, Elemental Resistance, Enchantment Expert

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +4
    |Sword as My Shield +6, Slay Enchantment, Blind fighting

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +5
    |Woodland Stride, Disruption 2/day

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +5
    |Valiant Charge x2, Swift Tracker, Cleave Magic

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat, Evasion, Disruption 3/day

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +6
    |Fight Master, Channel Conviction, Sense Magic (impr)

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +7
    |Adrenaline

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +7
    |Bonus Feat, Valiant Charge x3, Survivor

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +7
    |
    +6
    |
    +8
    |

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +8
    |

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +8
    |
    +7
    |
    +9
    |Bonus Feat, Shock Fang 1/day

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +9
    |Valiant Charge x4

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +9
    |
    +8
    |
    +10
    |Shock Fang 2/day

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +10
    |Bonus Feat

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +10
    |
    +9
    |
    +11
    |Weapon Master

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +11
    |Spell Eater, Shock Fang 3/day[/table]
    Last edited by Slayer Lord; 2011-05-06 at 02:39 PM.

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