Villain motives...

[Flail_master]

Hey guys,
i've been lurking for a while now, but recently i finally need some help from you guys for the first time in a while, so here goes.

basically I am going to be DM'ing a 4th edition game for a whole new group of people soon, never played with, or seen them play before, but my trouble is, i have, as usual with me, almost every aspect of my story planned out, as in all the people they meet, the places they will go if they wish at some points, various side plots which will help with the main goal, but the thing is, i have the main villains, and their lieutenants even, but i dont have a motive or goal for them!!! I cant think of one!

I'm not concerned about originality, just fun, but if it helps, my villain(s) is/are a couple, a young 18-20 year old girl and an older man, maybe early 30's or late 20's, and they are completely in love with each other, the really overdone kind of love too, with the stupid pet names and always holding hands or missing each other and expressing it after only an hour apart, constantly saying how amazing they are to each other, but i dont have a goal for them, or a motive, they will both be evil, and i want this plan to be thought up by the both of them together. ( & much? )

so i wanna know, what kind of goals and motives have your villains had? take over the world? why? how? merge the mortal coil and hell into one place damning all it inhabitants, again, why and how?

help me out playgrounders, and when thats done, share your experiences in storytelling, and what you villains do for other people to read!!!

thanks in advance

[Blackjackg]

You might consider subverting the old "rescue the maiden" trope by having the PCs show up to find that the maiden has no interest whatsoever in being rescued. Maybe she has Stockholm Syndrome, or maybe she was in on the whole "kidnapping" thing all along because it's a good way to be with her lover, and maybe milk a little ransom money out of her rich/powerful/noble parents in the process. If the maiden happens to be the archetypal princess, the discovery of her plot and subsequent expulsion from the dynasty gives her good reason to fight against her royal lineage-- both revenge and for the throne that's "rightfully hers," (also rightfully belongs to her hunny-bunny).

There's a reason classic villain motives-- power, money, revenge, just plain crazy-- are classics.

Since you asked, my most memorable villain started out as an opposed cleric of the same god as a PC cleric (neutral deity, NG PC, NE villain). Dude got all ticked off when the PC cleric beat him in a contest of faith (to make a long story short, PC pulled the sword out of the stone), switched teams and decided to sacrifice the world to some inscrutable alien god because he didn't like it anymore.

[Flail_master]

You might consider subverting the old "rescue the maiden" trope by having the PCs show up to find that the maiden has no interest whatsoever in being rescued. Maybe she has Stockholm Syndrome, or maybe she was in on the whole "kidnapping" thing all along because it's a good way to be with her lover, and maybe milk a little ransom money out of her rich/powerful/noble parents in the process. If the maiden happens to be the archetypal princess, the discovery of her plot and subsequent expulsion from the dynasty gives her good reason to fight against her royal lineage-- both revenge and for the throne that's "rightfully hers," (also rightfully belongs to her hunny-bunny).

There's a reason classic villain motives-- power, money, revenge, just plain crazy-- are classics.

Since you asked, my most memorable villain started out as an opposed cleric of the same god as a PC cleric (neutral deity, NG PC, NE villain). Dude got all ticked off when the PC cleric beat him in a contest of faith (to make a long story short, PC pulled the sword out of the stone), switched teams and decided to sacrifice the world to some inscrutable alien god because he didn't like it anymore.

i was actually planning on introducing the girl in a damsel in distress situation, funny you should suggest that
i like the whole royal lineage business, could be a good place to start, maybe then move to trying to take over other countries with her new found power?
maybe a more destructive goal, merging two planes or whatever, hell on earth n all that, just cos they wanted to show how much they love each other? ...

also funny you should mention the faith business (like the sound of the villain btw, turning out that something that is meant to be sort of selfless (religion) turns out to be a competitive point ) cos the reason i did a couple as the villains is that we have a Paladin of Sehanine in the party, representing Autumn, individuality, neutrality and most importantly, Love. She decided that her character mostly focuses on the love side of her religion, abhorring rape and the such, so i put in the couple to conflict her choices when foiling their plans, "will this hinder their love? am i destroying their love? will i one day have to kill one for the greater good, defying my main belief?" and all that

[DontEatRawHagis]

Jumping off points for Ideas for reasons to be evil:
Thief Lovers that Want to live happily ever after - Rob, steal and kill their way till they are better off. Get rich quick. Maybe they stalk the PCs in order to steal loot. Or maybe they have infiltrated a Royal get together and are planning on stealing from the treasury. If they fail they make it look like the PCs were the ones to do it.

Break a spell - They may look like they are genually happy but this is due to them being under a spell that if one dies they both die. Maybe they were both the last soldiers in some war. All they know is that they want to get rid of this curse. The only reason they are together is to make sure the other one doesn't die. Over the years they have grown closer.

True Heirs to the Throne - They are the exiled King and Queen(one is the true heir the other is his wife). After many years in hiding the King or Queen found out that they were royalty and seek to reclaim the throne. Having lived life in squaller he/she has a large group of followers and a right hand Dragon of a Spouse(Not literal dragon).

Priest and Priestess of an Evil Love God - Self explanatory. They want to summon the God to this realm. Starting off small with minor demons and working their way up. Knowing full well that they have to prove themselves to their God.

[huttj509]

I find myself reminded of the opening scene of Pulp Fiction.

"I love you pumpkin." "I love you honeybunny. EVERYBODY BE COOL THIS IS A ROBBERY!"

[Adrayll]

If you wanted to do the merging the planes idea, why don't you say that one of the two is from this other plane. That way, they can have a motive to merge these planes - so they can be together all the time.

Alternatively, seeking immortality is a solid motive if they're in love. So, you know, they can live happily forever after...

[Ajadea]

I like their love being a main motivation for them being evil.

Perhaps one or the other is a summon/soul stuffed into a construct/ghost possessing someone else, and they can only be together for so long each day...End goal: Mash up two planes in order to let them always be together. Perhaps the planes are naturally drawn together, with only the Astral Sea holding them apart, keeping them from merging. So all they have to do is weaken, destroy, or shift the essence of the Astral Sea enough, and then all merges into one.

Royal lineage is good. Make it a little more complicated perhaps? She isn't technically in the direct line of inheritance, which is highly patriarchal. Let's say there are three of the King's sons, her nephew, the crown princess and her husband, the girl's uncle, the girl's dad, the girl's cousin (son of that other uncle), the girl's older brother, and then finally she's in line, as long as she's married. And if the guy is an evil warlord, it is far too likely that their marriage is not recognized by the priests that the rest of the royal family worships. Because of this, the crown would therefore pass to the queen's younger brother and down that line instead...

But that crown, in her mind, belongs to her and her love. And she will do anything to get it. So...a lot of fratricide and such, when you get down to it. And lying her pretty little head off, of course.

Perhaps one or both parts of the couple is a romantic, and a glory-seeker. That person wants to create a cult of evil centered around his/her love, to raise his/her partner up as a god. Perhaps while the other person secretly does the same. Their cults don't know about each other, and it's entirely possible that they are keeping this a secret from each other as well, so it'll be a surprise (birthday? anniversary?) when they find new divine power flowing through them and an entire cult at their command. This one involves a lot of shenanigans, and a lot of opportunity for the party to either manipulate them into destroying each other's cults (maybe even fight each other unknowingly?) or, on the other end of the spectrum, let the villains make their cults team up and basically nuke the world while they rise above it into godhood.

[Flail_master]

These are all really awesome so far! I'm almost spoiled for choice, loads of these i am really liking, and the ones I'm unsure about are modifiable to be awesome in some places.

I like the whole summoning an evil love god to perhaps become immortal and live together forever with their god, though in the forgotten realms setting (the setting we are in ) i dont think there is an evil love god?

the merging of planes to be together is also awesome! and having to destroy the astral sea is even more interesting, maybe causing leaks of astral beings to appear, pouring hundreds of spirits and more dangerous creatures into the mortal coil!
royalty is always a nice place to start too, have it so when they do obtain a country or city or whatever, they gain more followers and more power, helping with their overall goal and introduce some loyal followers that help them kill the brothers and the such man the possibility to mix some of these ideas in a pot is endless!

as i said I'm spoiled for choice ATM though more ideas are always welcome! can never have too much to choose from right?

also, pulp fiction! Brilliant movie! "I don't remember askin you a gad damn thing! " love that bit (love the whole movie really, tarantino is a genius!)

OH! and of course, keep your stories coming of villains youve faced or ran in your games!

[Killer Angel]

but i dont have a goal for them, or a motive, they will both be evil, and i want this plan to be thought up by the both of them together. ( & much? )

Use Sabine's concept, only, evolve it.
She's a succubus, and she really felt in love for his "victim", this powerful evil wizard/necromancer/summoner, that she's helping since many years. Make them both depraved, if you want.
She even betrayed her fiendish master, for the wizard.
Their common goal is now to grow in power, to avoid vengeance...

and who knows? Maybe they're dreaming to rule togheter their own layer...

[Flail_master]

Use Sabine's concept, only, evolve it.
She's a succubus, and she really felt in love for his "victim", this powerful evil wizard/necromancer/summoner, that she's helping since many years. Make them both depraved, if you want.
She even betrayed her fiendish master, for the wizard.
Their common goal is now to grow in power, to avoid vengeance...

and who knows? Maybe they're dreaming to rule togheter their own layer...

I knew it was a good idea to stop lurking and ask!
these ideas are great, i dunno what i'd do without the playground

[gibbo88]

Over-compensating for physical or mental weaknesses.

[Flail_master]

Over-compensating for physical or mental weaknesses.

... what? whats the context of that? whats it directed toward?

[Killer Angel]

I knew it was a good idea to stop lurking and ask!
these ideas are great, i dunno what i'd do without the playground

we can go on. Mixing the ideas, you can have the merging of planes, annihilating a large portion of the FR, to create that famous hellish layer they want to rule.

Over-compensating for physical or mental weaknesses.

(edit: care to explain, please?)

[Flail_master]

we can go on. Mixing the ideas, you can have the merging of planes, annihilating a large portion of the FR, to create that famous hellish layer they want to rule.

haha indeed! its an endless mixing pot!

[manyslayer]

I like the whole summoning an evil love god to perhaps become immortal and live together forever with their god, though in the forgotten realms setting (the setting we are in ) i dont think there is an evil love god?

In Libris Mortis there is Evening Glory. They mention using the gods from LM in FR, so theoretically Evening Glory is there. Evening Glory is not evil (N) but her tennets are that love can go on forever if the body is properly preserved. She is the deity of love at any price.

"Those whose love transcends life should seek life everlasting through the grace of undeath."

Have a dark ritual to grant them both immortality and power via transformation to undead. Maybe the ritual needs sacrifices, rare materials, etc. that will bring them into conflict with the PCs.

[Flail_master]

In Libris Mortis there is Evening Glory. They mention using the gods from LM in FR, so theoretically Evening Glory is there. Evening Glory is not evil (N) but her tennets are that love can go on forever if the body is properly preserved. She is the deity of love at any price.

"Those whose love transcends life should seek life everlasting through the grace of undeath."

Have a dark ritual to grant them both immortality and power via transformation to undead. Maybe the ritual needs sacrifices, rare materials, etc. that will bring them into conflict with the PCs.

That sounds rather interesting! I'll give it a read, i can definitely use that in my mix of motives!