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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    I just read about Savage Worlds' Dramatic Interludes system, where on a long journey, players each draw a card from a deck, and tell stories about what happened on the journey based on the card they drew.

    I was wondering if anyone had any other creative ways/houserules to incorporate decks of cards into RPGs (specifically, d20 ones). Of course I know about the Deck of Many Things.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    I don't have any good info to give, but I know that 4e recently released a deck of cards that change the coure of battle/story. Im sure you can easily check it out on the wizards site.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Wizards released a card game called Three Dragon Ante a while back. I never played it, but it could be played standalone, or had optional rules for integrating it into a D&D game - stuff like being able to "cheat" if you had a certain number of ranks in Sleight of Hand, or getting a score bonus for Profession(Gambler).
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Cards are a cool random number generation tool because, unlike dice, they do have memories.

    I haven't used cards in d20, but they're the foundation of Dust Devils, which is hands-down my favorite rpg. It's also the engine for vs Monsters, which is one of the better 24 hour rpgs I've read. You might check out one of those for inspiration.

    The obvious way to work them into d20 would be to include a card game in the game, and to play it out with cards out-of-game.

    But that's not very interesting on its own. I'm going to throw out a campaign idea out there, just working under the idea of forcing cards into d20. It's the first thing to come to mind, so I make no promises about quality.
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    I'm gong to think about this as if it were in Spycraft. Because I like Spycraft. You could use d20 modern too, but the Gambling skill would be a problem. I'd axe that skill if I were using that system.

    Anyway, the game could start with a couple hands of cards. Probably poker, because I like poker. A bunch of seedy ladies and fellas in a dark room under a single light. You know the scene. We'd play it out in character, GM dealing and egging on in-character conversation. That should overtly serve to establish the characters and tone, and to stealthfully introduce the idea of cards as a gameplay mechanic (I'd bring it up with players ahead of time, but maybe not emphasize the extent to which I'd want to work it in later).

    After the card game, I'd break character and give the players a straightforward exposition dump. They're thieves and they've been hired to steal something odd. If you've read that Bradbury story about the Poker Chip of Henry Matisse, I'm thinking something that -- a piece of art, keeping up the cards theme, slightly creepy. But during the robbery, I introduce a supernatural element. Slightly. Maybe during a moment of conflict resolution over the poker chip, I use values in an opposed roll to determine a number of poker cards to draw (total check*1/5 = # cards drawn?) and use poker hands to determine success? But anyway, just one slip into a weird rules system, describing some generically supernatural stuff happening around the MacGuffin -- lights flickering or something, and then letting it pass.

    That's about as far as I usually like to plan, but once the players have (or fail to obtain) the chip, I'd try to work supernatural elements into the plot alongside the poker chip (even if it doesn't end up important itself, I'm sure there's an easy supernatural plot hook that can be worked in with poker themes) according to the themes of cards and whatever else comes up in the players' interactions or fixations in the game. And I'd try to work poker hands into the game as a resolution mechanic in confrontations with the supernatural, probably outright replacing dice rolls when dealing with the weird. It would also be cool to work in a way for the characters to "cheat" (but I'm a sucker for the metagame).

    ...actually, d20 would still be pretty terrible for this. This actually seems like a case where vs Monsters would be the ideal system. And that's weird enough that it could be worth doing.
    Last edited by Bang!; 2011-04-27 at 10:46 PM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    A friend of mine told me of a system he played once, it was a futuristic system set in space, you play as the captain of a ship. You progressed picking up extra crew members, upgrading the ship, etc. The trick was that what was available to be upgraded and bought, or who was available to be hired, was drawn out of a deck of cards any given time you looked.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    "World vs Hero", "Primetime Adventures", and "In a Wicked Age" all use playing cards. The first two as the primary form of randomization, and the last one in addition to various dice.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    In a campaign I'm in, there are any number of tarot-related powers and special effects. Several party members get a random card draw at the beginning of battle, each of which creates a random effect.

    Another example is, I've been thinking of how to change the 7th Sea initiative system. Normally there are 10 phases a round. You roll Nd10, and you get an action on phases corresponding to the numbers you roll. This gets a little messy to track - just leaving the dice with their numbers up its easy to forget which dice are 'action dice' and which are dice to use for rolls. Otherwise you need a blackboard with a 1-10 chart or something.

    So I figured to replace the die rolls with draws from a normal deck (sans face cards and jokers). It does mean that there are some correlations, but its a lot easier to keep track of, and if you came up with some special rules for them the face cards and jokers could do something interesting too.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Mutants and Masterminds has an optional cards for Hero Points rule. Complete with special effects for the face cards. A 1-10 counts as a reroll, adding 10 to the value of the card to determine the result. The face cards do things like let you grap a feat for two rounds instead of one, or make multiple recovery checks. Jokers can replicate any effect from any face card.

    I'd like to incorporate a similar idea into D&D with Action Points, but I can never think of what to do with the face cards.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    I faintly remember a game review once, for a system I've since then never heard of again.

    The basic resolution mechanic for all actions was for the player to draw a card from a Tarot deck. The DM would then look up the meaning of the card (and whether it was reversed or not), then interpret the outcome.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    If I recall correctly, there was a system (deadlands, I think) were whenever you wanted to cast a spell, you had to draw a poker hand, and the success of the spell was based on the hand. A great system, from what I remembered, as long as you don't mind the fact that magic wasn't wholly reliable.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Some of the ToBs abilities can be represented in a deck from which they draw their maneuvers.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    There's home brew for using cards instead of dice-pools in Mouseguard/Burning Wheel: Pool size is hand size, draw a new hands every three rounds, roll value is card number (no face cards).
    Spades are for attacks, Clubs are defense, Diamonds are maneuvers and Hearts feint .
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    I'd like to see cards better looked at, more fully advanced, and finally used throughout pen and paper games. The idea I like about cards is that you can save them in a hand, so that if there's a situation you feel your character would certainly hit/succeed you can throw down a king and say you did. Gives more roleplay options.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by randomhero00 View Post
    I'd like to see cards better looked at, more fully advanced, and finally used throughout pen and paper games. The idea I like about cards is that you can save them in a hand, so that if there's a situation you feel your character would certainly hit/succeed you can throw down a king and say you did. Gives more roleplay options.
    Actually, no. Using cards gives players more control over what results the random number generators throw their way. But that's got nothing at all to do with roleplay options, other than the amount the game system controls your decisions about how your character acts and why.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Dice View Post
    Actually, no. Using cards gives players more control over what results the random number generators throw their way. But that's got nothing at all to do with roleplay options, other than the amount the game system controls your decisions about how your character acts and why.
    Err what? We just said the same thing didn't we?

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Take a normal deck of cards and remove the face cards and jokers. Draw a hand of six cards.
    • Any time you would roll a d20, instead play two cards from your hand and add their values together, then set them aside in a discard pile.
    • Playing an ace together with another card counts as a natural 1, while playing two aces together counts as a natural 20.
    • You may not draw new cards until you have played your whole hand, at which time you draw a new hand of six cards.
    • An ability that would normally grant you the ability to reroll (but you have to keep the result) instead allows you to reshuffle your hand and discard pile back into the deck and draw a new hand, then discard at random down to the size of your previous hand if the hand you rerolled was less than six before continuing with play.
    • An ability that would normally grant you the ability to reroll (and keep the better of the two rolls) instead allows you to set aside your current hand, draw a new hand of six cards, and then shuffle either hand back into the deck and play using the one you've chosen (IF you've chosen to keep the new hand, be sure to discard cards at random as necessary to reach the size of your original hand BEFORE you continue).
    • Whenever you would draw a new hand, but have fewer than six cards remaining in your deck, draw all remaining cards and shuffle the discard pile, placing it face down as the new deck, drawing from the top until your hand is again six.


    There, cards in your D&D! *bows*
    Last edited by UserClone; 2011-04-28 at 08:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by randomhero00 View Post
    Err what? We just said the same thing didn't we?
    Not in the slightest. To me, roleplay options don't have anything to do with dice, cards or other means of producing random numbers. They are options purely concerned with playing a role. You could call it fluff.

    Mechanical, or crunch options don't have much to do with that., Unless you're playing a game where there are other elements than player choice that decide how your character acts in a given situation.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Dice View Post
    Not in the slightest. To me, roleplay options don't have anything to do with dice, cards or other means of producing random numbers. They are options purely concerned with playing a role. You could call it fluff.

    Mechanical, or crunch options don't have much to do with that., Unless you're playing a game where there are other elements than player choice that decide how your character acts in a given situation.
    Well the reason in my eye why it turns mechanical to into roleplay is that you can save certain actions (aka cards) to have the game turn out the way you want it when you want it. For instance if you just need to dodge an enemy blow or must hit an enemy squarely. Being able to drop a card and say so is very much roleplay vs rollplay of a dice.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3ro View Post
    If I recall correctly, there was a system (deadlands, I think) were whenever you wanted to cast a spell, you had to draw a poker hand, and the success of the spell was based on the hand. A great system, from what I remembered, as long as you don't mind the fact that magic wasn't wholly reliable.
    Deadlands is a horror system, so the magic was intended to be inherently dangerous. It has another interesting wrinkle - the most powerful you were, the more cards you drew to make the poker hand, but drawing a joker was ALWAYS very bad.

    I think Savage Worlds (maybe?) has an initiative system where you draw X cards, and you get an action on each card's 'phase'. (This means drawing a pair is bad, since you only would get one action that phase.)
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I faintly remember a game review once, for a system I've since then never heard of again.

    The basic resolution mechanic for all actions was for the player to draw a card from a Tarot deck. The DM would then look up the meaning of the card (and whether it was reversed or not), then interpret the outcome.
    Argh, I remember that game, but I can't think of the name. They weren't all regular Tarot cards, either. The one I remember was "Drowning in armor" - something that's normally a strength becomes I weakness.


    The game Castle Falkenstein uses playing-cards exclusively instead of dice, IIRC.
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
    Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
    I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    That said, trolling is entirely counterproductive (yes, even when it's hilarious).

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    I think that might be Everway.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    I've been thinking about how to use cards in a system myself. The most obvious way is to just shuffle a deck and draw a card each time. You effectively end up with a d13, and if you include Jokers, a "critical" 1/26th of the time.

    Another possibility is that you can hold onto cards and choose to use them later. The basic idea is to give each player a five card 'hand', allow them to draw, and then play the card from their hand they wish. The player can choose to either play all their high cards, giving them the best chance of success while using their hand for "dump" cards, or hold onto high cards in case they are needed.

    I've considered giving the various suits relevance. For example, spades are preferred in combat situations, hearts in persuasion situations, diamonds in social situations, and clubs in... defense? I think I'll need to look up what each suit classically represented.

    Quote Originally Posted by randomhero00 View Post
    The idea I like about cards is that you can save them in a hand, so that if there's a situation you feel your character would certainly hit/succeed you can throw down a king and say you did. Gives more roleplay options.
    That would be more tactical options, not roleplay options. They are options you would have during roleplay situations, sure, but it would be a tactical game decision for when to use them.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by UserClone View Post
    I think that might be Everway.
    THAT's the name of it! Thanks, that was bugging me.

    Also the old Marvel SAGA RPG used a special deck of cards. (With Marvel comics character on it, of course.) I don't know the rules of it well enough to comment, though.
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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    That said, trolling is entirely counterproductive (yes, even when it's hilarious).

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by randomhero00 View Post
    Well the reason in my eye why it turns mechanical to into roleplay is that you can save certain actions (aka cards) to have the game turn out the way you want it when you want it. For instance if you just need to dodge an enemy blow or must hit an enemy squarely. Being able to drop a card and say so is very much roleplay vs rollplay of a dice.
    Isn't it more in tune to roleplay to just take the results as they come rather than picking and choosing from a player's perspective (being meta)? I mean if you've picked your character's stats/traits/what not then their capabilities are already accounted for. If you need to do something, then that should be representative of the character making a lucky break rather than the player deciding that they succeed here and now.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Maerok View Post
    Isn't it more in tune to roleplay to just take the results as they come rather than picking and choosing from a player's perspective (being meta)?
    Not necessarily, any more than using action points/fate points/whatever to do something you MUST SUCCEED at is "meta".

    (It might be meta, but it's rather useful if the players can FORCE a success when the alternative is "I blew what should've been an easy die-roll, so not I need to make a new character/the GM needs to start a new campaign because the old one's world was destroyed.")
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
    Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
    I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    That said, trolling is entirely counterproductive (yes, even when it's hilarious).

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Snarfmite View Post
    I just read about Savage Worlds' Dramatic Interludes system, where on a long journey, players each draw a card from a deck, and tell stories about what happened on the journey based on the card they drew.

    I was wondering if anyone had any other creative ways/houserules to incorporate decks of cards into RPGs (specifically, d20 ones). Of course I know about the Deck of Many Things.
    Pathfinder has a system kind of like this with the Harrow deck, a Golarion-themed tarot that plays off attributes and alignments. You can draw a card from the deck and get a benefit depending on the card's suit (the suits represent attributes like STR or CHA) or alignment.

    The Curse of the Crimson Throne and Carrion Crown adventure paths both utilize the Harrow as a recurring motif, and there's even a prestige class called the Harrower that gains even more power from the cards.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Argh, I remember that game, but I can't think of the name. They weren't all regular Tarot cards, either. The one I remember was "Drowning in armor" - something that's normally a strength becomes I weakness.
    .
    Sounds similar, but isn't the one I meant, then. That one explicitly told you to buy a set of normal Tarot cards along with the books.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3ro View Post
    If I recall correctly, there was a system (deadlands, I think) were whenever you wanted to cast a spell, you had to draw a poker hand, and the success of the spell was based on the hand. A great system, from what I remembered, as long as you don't mind the fact that magic wasn't wholly reliable.
    Cards were also used for other stuff such as initiative, IIRC.

    Fun system. My first character was a huckster; in the first, training session I tried to cast a spell. Thing backfired so badly I almost died. In my very first action in the very first session of my very first game. I think I cast about 4 spells in the entire campaign.

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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Quote Originally Posted by ILM View Post
    Cards were also used for other stuff such as initiative, IIRC.

    Fun system. My first character was a huckster; in the first, training session I tried to cast a spell. Thing backfired so badly I almost died. In my very first action in the very first session of my very first game. I think I cast about 4 spells in the entire campaign.
    You don't have to use cards for your spells, its meant as a deal-with-the-devil for when you run out of power points, at least in Reloaded

    I do like the savage worlds initiative system. Everyone in the combat draws a card, you go in order of the cards (backwards alphabetical order for the suits if there's more than one person on the same number), if you get a joker you can choose when to go. Also IIRC one of the jokers also gives you a bonus on your first roll.
    Last edited by Drglenn; 2011-05-01 at 08:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Ways to incorporate a deck of cards into RPGs

    Deadlands is a western/supernatural RPG that uses a standard deck of cards (had something to do with poker if I recall). Also, in D&D 3.5, throwing a Deck of Many Things is a good way to use cards (and end your campaign hilariously).

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    Last edited by Lord Loss; 2011-05-01 at 03:07 PM.
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