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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    So, I introduced a new player to D&D and he's been playing a BFC Knight. I think he has the whole concept of the game down and I have been asked to build him an upgraded character. He will be a Human Half-Minotaur (modified to only grant +4 Str for size increase) Crusader.

    I would like to try to find a class that works well with the need for mobility. He will have a 40ft move speed and a 20ft reach, so I'm thinking something that uses Standard action strikes and moves around to take advantage of reach + Stand Still would be good.

    Mostly I need PrC advice. I was thinking about War Hulk for the nice Str boost or War Mind for the ability to hit two things with one strike. Does anyone have any suggestions on this topic?

    Also, feats will be something like this:
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    Level 1 Combat Reflexes
    Human Power Attack
    Flaw 1 Wild Talent (War Mind) or Cleave (War Hulk)
    Flaw 2 Shorten Grip (he didn't want to use a spiked chain, and for the sake of diversity, I agree)

    Level 3 Stand Still

    Level 6 Mage Slayer


    Also, is there some way to calculate relative exp after the LA buyoff has happened (He is losing the Exp and LA at ECL 4, but we start at ECL 8)?
    Last edited by Elric VIII; 2011-05-02 at 10:10 AM.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Are there any handbooks for this sort of character to which someone can link me?

    I have found some generic Crusader handbooks, but nothing on a Stand Still build, other than the synnergy between Stand Still, Thicket of Blades, and Mage Slayer.

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    faceroll's Avatar

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Give him two levels of Spirit Lion Totem (CC) Wolf Totem Barbarian (UA). Trades out Fast Movement and Uncanny Dodge for Pounce and Improved Trip.

    Pick up the Knockdown feat for free trip attempts on attacks that do more than 10 damage.

    Extra Rage is good, for more rage. I like Whirling Frenzy, because extra attacks are nice, and with 20ft reach, the con isn't as necessary. Added AC is good vs. those pesky rays.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    That's a pretty good idea. I was staying away from tripping because it seemed like a feat sink, but getting it with Barbarian 2 would work nicely.

    I was also thinking about Tactical Soldier 2 for the ability to 5ft step for free after an AoO.
    Last edited by Elric VIII; 2011-05-02 at 06:19 PM.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    So far, you've got a solid start. I wouldn't bother heading towards War Hulk, just due to War Hulk's issues. War Mind is tempting, but, honestly, more crusader or warblade works, too. After a while, he may just want maneuvers that supplement, rather than replace, his full-attack.

    Faceroll's advice is pretty solid. With that in mind, I'd probably go something like Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Crusader 2/Warblade 2. It's incredibly silly, but easily solid, but you may need to throw exact levels around to nab thicket of blades or some other things he may want, maneuver-wise. Fighter 1 nets you an additional feat - probably either something else to deal with tripping or in the mage slayer-tree - and Fighter 2 nets you the sexy, sexy Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature to better put power attack (and his size, with the Knockback feat) to use.


    As for the experience bit, that's really up to the DM. Arguably, if you've been an adventuring party together since he bought off the LA, he'd have roughly the same XP as the rest of the gang by this point, but some DMs may insist that he start at the XP for ECL 8 minus however much XP he'd be down for the buy-off. Really, just ask your DM on that one.
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    faceroll's Avatar

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Quote Originally Posted by Elric VIII View Post
    That's a pretty good idea. I was staying away from tripping because it seemed like a feat sink, but getting it with Barbarian 2 would work nicely.

    I was also thinking about Tactical Soldier 2 for the ability to 5ft step for free after an AoO.
    Tripping is both feat and ability score intensive, but either monk2 or barbarian2 circumvent both those issues, while nabbing some quality bennies (like rage and pounce). I prefer barbarian 2, because I like anger and smashing more than kung fu.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Fighter 1 nets you an additional feat - probably either something else to deal with tripping or in the mage slayer-tree - and Fighter 2 nets you the sexy, sexy Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature to better put power attack (and his size, with the Knockback feat) to use.
    This is good. Would this work on all of the targets from Shock Trooper's Domino Rush if you push both into a wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    As for the experience bit, that's really up to the DM. Arguably, if you've been an adventuring party together since he bought off the LA, he'd have roughly the same XP as the rest of the gang by this point, but some DMs may insist that he start at the XP for ECL 8 minus however much XP he'd be down for the buy-off. Really, just ask your DM on that one.
    That seems reasonable.



    So, I realized that there's a problem with Barbarian. He had said that he wanted to be Lawful. So, Monk seems like the way to go. I remember something about a Monk ACF that trades normal bonus feats for Fighter bonus feats, does anyone know where that is found?

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    danzibr's Avatar

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Wait... so how exactly does your version of Half-Minotaur work?

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Quote Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
    Wait... so how exactly does your version of Half-Minotaur work?
    The same as normal Half-Minotair except not gaining the bonuses and penalties for a size change (I somewhat misspoke in the OP, since Str was the biggest offender).

    On MM 291 going from Med-Larg is: +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 NA, -1 Attack/AC.

    Half Minotaur grants:+4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, +2 NA.

    This results in +12 Str, -2 Dex, +6 Con, -2 Int, +4 NA, and -1 Attack/AC all on a +1 LA template.

    With the DM changes, everything granted by the size increase (with the exception of Attack/AC penalties, reach, and bonuses on opposed check, such as tripping) is ignored.
    Last edited by Elric VIII; 2011-05-02 at 10:27 PM.

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    faceroll's Avatar

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Passive Way Monk, UA (or SRD) has improved trip at 2nd level. There are some other variants that give out useful, semi-useful, and useless feats on there, as well. Check out the alternate classes section of the SRD.

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    So long as he has no intention of gaining further barbarian levels, he can be lawful. They just have to be his first levels taken, while still non-lawful.
    His warblade levels will also thank him, because a Something 4/warblade 1 has an IL of 3 to start with when selecting his maneuvers and stances.

    Is he going to take Blindfight+Pierce Magical Concealment or Pierce Magic Protection as well? Nothing says F.U. to the BBEG like ignoring all his spell based defenses and miss chances.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Half Minotaur Thicket of Blades Crusader

    Ok, I found Martial Monk (Dragon 310) that gets me Fighter bonus feats. Now, with that and 2 levels of Dungeoncrasher Fighter, I think I have what I need.

    Now, why would I want Warblade levels in there instead of more Crusader levels? Are there some specific maneuvers that I want?

    I know that Iron Heart Surge is pretty good, but is there anything specifically?

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