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    Default The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    The Warmage



    HD: d8
    Alignment: Any

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Inflame (Courage), Armored Mage (Light) 5 3
    2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Bonus Feat 6 4
    3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Tenacious Spells 6 5
    4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Advanced Learning 6 6 3
    5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Inflame (Defiance) 6 6 4
    6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Armored Mage (Medium) 6 6 5 3
    7th +5 +2 +2 +5 6 6 6 4
    8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Advanced Learning 6 6 6 5 3
    9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Warcraft (Extend) 6 6 6 6 4
    10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Inflame (Toughness) 6 6 6 6 5 3
    11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Armored Mage (Heavy Shield) 6 6 6 6 6 4
    12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Advanced Learning 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
    13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
    14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Warcraft (Tapestry) 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
    15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Inflame (Blitz) 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
    16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Advanced Learning 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
    17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
    18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
    19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Warcraft (Quicken) 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
    20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Inflame (Unity), Advanced Learning 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6

    Class Skills (2+Int): Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Arcane), Knowledge (History), Profession, Ride, Speak Language, and Spellcraft.

    Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Warmages are proficient with all simple weapons and the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Warmages are proficient with light and medium armor as well as with shields (but not Tower Shields).

    Spells: Warmages cast spells spontaneously drawn from the Mageknight/Warmage spell list and know each spell on their list. They must have an Intelligence score of at least 10+spell level to cast, they gain bonus spell slots dependent on their Int modifier, and the save DCs of their spells are determined by their Int.

    Mageknight/Warmage Spell List
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    Cantrips: Immediate shield(1), lesser acid orb, lesser cold orb, lesser electric orb, lesser fire orb, lesser sonic orb, magic missile, mending.

    1st Level: Aid, align weapon, arcane sight, benign transposition, blade of blood*, command, cloud of knives*, energy sphere(2), enlarge person, grease, gust of wind, magic vestment/weapon, obscuring mist, protection from X, ray of exhaustion, reduce person, resist energy, sanctuary, true strike, whelming blast*, whispering wind.

    2nd Level: Augury, bear's endurance, bull's strength, cat's grace, cone of cold, darkness/daylight, electric vengeance*, energy ray(3), fireball, fog cloud, glitterdust, lightning bolt, make whole, meteoric strike*, protection from arrows, protection from energy, regroup*, scare, shield other, spiritual weapon, shatter.

    3rd Level: Chain Lightning, create food and water, dimension step*, dispel magic, energy vulnerability*, fear, fire shield, fly, greater magic vestment/weapon, haste, magic circle against X, prismatic mist*, shout(4), sleet storm(5), wall of fire, wind wall, stinking cloud, thunder field*, vampiric touch.

    4th Level: Black tentacles, condemnation*, death ward, delayed blast fireball(6), dimensional anchor, greater arcane sight, interposing hand, resilient sphere, righteous might, scrying, solid fog, sonic shield*, spell resistance, stifle spell*, stoneskin, wall of ice.

    5th Level: Acid fog, blade barrier, break enchantment, disintegrate, forceful hand, freezing sphere, greater command, greater electric vengeance*, ice storm(7), mage's sword, power word blind, telekinesis, wall of force, waves of exhaustion.

    6th Level: Earthquake, firebomb(8), forbiddance, grasping hand, greater dispel magic, greater shout(9), heroes' feast, restoration, spell turning, true seeing.

    7th Level: Clenched fist, forcecage, greater scrying, incendiary cloud, power word stun, sunburst, weather correction (10), word of recall.

    8th Level: Crushing hand, dimensional lock, meteor swarm, power word kill, prismatic wall, regeneration, summon golem*, telekinetic sphere.

    9th Level: Black blade of disaster, disjunction, elemental swarm, gate, implosion, prismatic sphere, raise dead, wail of the banshee.


    *Found in Player's Handbook II.

    (1)As the Shield spell, but casting time 1 immediate action, duration 1 round.
    (2)As Flaming Sphere, but duration is a flat 1 minute and upon casting it choose cold, fire, or electricity. The sphere is composed of that energy type and deals that type of damage.
    (3)As the Scorching Ray spell, but upon casting it choose cold, fire, or electricity. The rays are composed of that energy type and deal that type of damage.
    (4)Shout CAN penetrate a silence spell or effect, in fact Shout dispels and counters Silence. A successful save against Shout negates the deafness but does not halve the damage.
    (5)Sleet Storm requires a full round action to cast and in addition to its normal effects it deals creatures in the area 1d4 cold damage per round and is accompanied by Sleet and Strong Winds.
    (6)The blast may be delayed for up to 24 hours or until the next time you rest to regain spell slots, whichever comes first. You choose precisely how long you wish the delay to last, in increments of hours, minutes, and rounds, but you may choose either to cancel or detonate the blast prematurely at any time during this delay by speaking a command word.
    (7)Ice storm requires 1 round of casting time, lasts 1 round per level, deals creatures in the area 1d6 bludgeoning damage and 1d6 cold damage per round, covers the area of the spell in Ice, and is accompanied by Heavy Snow, Hail, and Severe Winds.
    (8)Identical to Fire Seeds.
    (9)A successful save against Greater Shout negates the stunning and halves the duration of deafness but not the damage dealt.
    (10)As Control Weather, casting time 1 round, the effects manifest as you complete the spell, duration 1 round per caster level. Range is Personal area is a 500ft (100 squares) radius emanation centered on you.


    Inflame (Sp): When a Warmage casts a spell nearby allies are roused to greater heights by a surge of boosted morale and arcane power. Inflame may only be used a number of times each day equal to his Charisma modifier + 1/2 his Warmage level.

    At 1st level, when a Warmage casts an arcane spell, by expending a daily use of Inflame allies within 60ft gain a morale bonus to saves against fear and compulsion effects and to all damage rolls equal to the spell's level. This effect lasts for 5 rounds.

    At 5th level, when a Warmage casts an arcane spell, by expending a daily use of Inflame allies within 60ft gain a morale bonus to AC equal to the spell's level. This effect lasts 5 rounds. During those rounds, whenever the Warmage is attacked, any of those allies may choose to switch places with the Warmage if they are adjacent. If they do the ally is now the target of the attack instead of the Warmage.

    At 10th level, when a Warmage casts an arcane spell, by expending a daily use of Inflame allies within 60ft gain a number of temporary hit points equal to twice the spell's level which last for 5 rounds. During those rounds, effected allies benefit from the Diehard feat.

    At 15th level, when a Warmage casts an arcane spell, by expending two daily uses of Inflame allies within 60ft get a bonus to land speed equal to 5ft per spell level and gain a Fly speed equal to twice their land speed. This effect lasts 5 rounds. Maneuverability (Clumsy) if the spell's level was 1st through 3rd. Maneuverability (Poor) if the spell's level was 4th through 6th. Maneuverability (Average) if the spell's level was 7th through 9th.

    At 20th level, when a Warmage casts an arcane spell, he may expend four daily uses of Inflame. If he does, among allies within 60ft determine the highest base attack bonus, and base saving throw bonuses. All allies within 60ft gain a morale bonus to attack rolls and saving throws equal to the spell's level and use the highest determined base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses among them. This effect lasts for 5 rounds.

    Armored Mage (Ex): At 1st level a Warmage ignores the arcane spell failure chance of light armor as well as light shields. At 6th level he ignores the arcane spell failure chance of medium armor as well. At 11th level he ignores the arcane spell failure chance of heavy shields as well as tower shields.

    Bonus Feat: At 2nd level a Warmage gains his choice of Combat Casting, Obtain Familiar or Somatic Weaponry as a bonus feat.

    Tenacious Spells (Sp): Beginning at 3rd level a Warmage's spells have become much more difficult to disrupt. The DCs to identify or dispel a Warmage spell increase by twice his Constitution modifier, and any attempt to counterspell a Warmage spell has a chance of failing equal to 10% times his Constitution modifier.

    Advanced Learning: Any Abjuration or Evocation from the Wiz/Sorc list.

    Warcraft (Sp): Beginning at 9th level, whenever a Warmage casts a spell targeting one or more Inflamed allies he may spend 1 daily use of his Inflame ability. If he does, the spell's duration is extended as if by the Extend Spell feat though it's casting time remains the same and it doesn't use a spell slot one level higher.

    At 14th level, whenever a Warmage casts a spell targeting an Inflamed ally he may spend 2 daily uses of his Inflame ability and increase the casting time of the spell in the same way a Sorcerer or Bard does when applying metamagic. If he does his spell targets as many of his Inflamed allies as he chooses (up to all of them).

    At 19th level, whenever a Warmage casts a spell targeting one or more Inflamed allies he may spend 4 daily uses of his Inflame ability. If he does, the spell's casting time is reduced as if by the Quicken Spell feat though it doesn't use a spell slot four levels higher. Unlike the Quicken Spell feat this ability may be used in combination with the Warcraft (Tapestry) ability. If it is the spell's final casting time is 1 swift action.

    *******

    The Mageknight



    HD: d12
    Alignment: Any

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    S. Level
    S. Known
    S. Ready
    1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Armored Mage (Medium), Attunement
    1
    3
    3
    2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Iron Knight
    1
    4
    3
    3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Channel Spell
    1
    5
    3
    4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Armored Mage (Heavy)
    1
    6
    3
    5th +5 +4 +1 +4
    2
    7
    4
    6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Quick Cast 1/day
    2
    8
    4
    7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Born of Steel
    2
    9
    4
    8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Bulwark of Defense
    2
    10
    4
    9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6
    3
    11
    4
    10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Quick Cast 2/day
    3
    12
    5
    11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Silver Knight
    3
    13
    5
    12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Chromium Veil
    3
    14
    5
    13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8
    4
    15
    5
    14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Quick Cast 3/day
    4
    16
    5
    15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Mithril Fury
    4
    17
    6
    16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Arcane Endurance
    4
    18
    6
    17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10
    5
    19
    6
    18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Quick Cast 4/day
    5
    20
    6
    19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Adamantine Apotheosis
    5
    21
    6
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Starmetal Knight, Forged Beyond Death
    5
    22
    7

    Class Skills (4+Int): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Profession, Ride, and Swim.

    Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Mageknights are proficient with all simple and martial melee weapons as well as light, medium, and heavy armor. Mageknights are proficient with all shields, including Tower Shields.

    Spells (Read Carefully): A Mageknight learns and readies arcane spells from the Mageknight/Warmage spell list (see above). In order to cast a spell a Mageknight must have a Constitution score of at least 10+spell level. The save DCs of a Mageknight's spells are based on his Constitution. A Mageknight's caster level is equal to his class level. Mageknights do not get bonus spells. Mageknights begin play knowing three 1st level spells and learn an additional spell of any level he is capable of casting at every level beyond first level (check the S. Known column in the table above). The highest level spell a Mageknight is able to cast is given in the S. Level column in the table above.

    A Mageknight's spells do not use spell slots like a normal spellcaster. By spending 15 minutes in study a Mageknight is able to ready a small number of spells from among his spells known. When he readies spells he may not ready spells of his highest spell level more than once. Mageknights may re-ready their spells anytime they are able to spend 15 minutes to study. At first level, a Mageknight may ready three spells from his known spells. This number increases with class level as given in the S. Ready column in the table above.

    Despite similarities to martial initiators a Mageknight does not automatically recover cast spells at the start of each encounter (see Attunement).

    At 5th level, and every three levels thereafter, a Mageknight may lose a single spell known, to learn a new spell, of any level, up to the highest level of spells he knows.

    Attunement (Ex/Sp): Mageknights may cast spells with somatic components even if his hands are full as long as he holds a melee weapon in one of his hands. As long as he holds a melee weapon in one of his hands he ignores material components of spells as if he possessed the Eschew Materials feat.

    A Mageknight is able to recover all of his cast spells in one of two ways:

    • A Mageknight may spend a swift action to recover all of his cast spells upon reducing a creature to 0 or fewer hit points with a melee attack, but only if that creature's CR is no less than 1/2 his class level and had more than 0 hit points before he made his attack.
    • A Mageknight may Fight Defensively or use the Total Defense action and spend an additional swift action to recover all of his cast spells. If he does, he becomes Fatigued. He may not do this if he is Exhausted.


    Armored Mage (Ex): At first level a Mageknight ignores the arcane spell failure chance of light and medium armors as well as light and heavy shields. At 4th level he ignores the arcane spell failure chance of heavy armor as well as tower shields.

    Iron Knight (Su): At 2nd level, as long as he wears medium or heavy armor a Mageknight responds to energy damage as though he were an object.

    Channel Spell (Sp): At 3rd level, a Mageknight has mastered the ability of combining of melee competence with magical power. As a standard action he may cast a spell and deliver it through a single melee attack without provoking attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less, and regardless of the number of targets it could normally be assigned the spell must target only one creature. Personal spells or spells with an area effect may not be Channeled.

    The Mageknight makes a melee attack roll at his highest attack bonus. If the attack misses his spell is cast but is wasted. If the attack hits, the target of the attack (and only the target of the attack) is subject to the effects of the cast spell as if the Mageknight had succeeded on any attack rolls or spell penetration checks as the spell would normally require. The target of the attack is permitted any saving throws the spell would ordinarily allow.

    Spells that generate multiple touches, or rays, charge the Mageknight's weapon for multiple attacks. Each time he attacks with the weapon, one of the touches/rays is used until all have been used. Missing with an attack in this manner uses up one of the touches/rays. While the Mageknight's weapon remains charged in this way if he chooses to cast another spell with his Channel Spell ability any charges currently held in his weapon are lost.

    Quick Cast (Sp): Starting at 6th level, once per day, a Mageknight may cast any readied spell as a swift action. He gains additional uses of this ability every four levels after 6th.

    Born of Steel (Su): At 7th level, as long as he wears medium or heavy armor, a Mageknight, like an object, is dealt half damage from ranged weapons and is immune to nonlethal damage. Furthermore, he gains Hardness equal to his Charisma modifier +2 per point of enhancement bonus of his worn armor. His Hardness stacks with any DR or Energy Resistance he has.

    Bulwark of Defense (Ex): Starting at 8th level, a Mageknight is a very difficult man to cross. Enemies treat all squares threatened by the Mageknight as difficult terrain.

    If an ally in one of those squares would be hit by an attack, as an immediate action, the Mageknight may enter that ally's square, and move that ally into an open adjacent square. If he does the Mageknight is hit by the attack instead.

    If the Mageknight enters an ally's square in this manner and there is no open adjacent square to move his ally, the ally is knocked prone and gains total cover while he is prone and shares a space with the Mageknight.

    Silver Knight (Su): At 11th level, a Mageknight, his worn armor, and any worn shield are all immune to acid. Furthermore, the Mageknight is immune to disease and poison as long as he wears medium or heavy armor. Finally, the Mageknight's worn armor and any worn shield is unaffected by rust or other effects that warp or harm objects.

    Chromium Veil (Ex): Starting at 12th level, allies in squares threatened by the Mageknight enjoy the benefits of Cover and Concealment. During any round in which the Mageknight uses the Total Defense action or Fights Defensively those allies benefit from Total Cover and Total Concealment.

    Mithril Fury (Sp): Starting at 15th level, when a Mageknight uses his Channel Spell ability he may make a full attack with a melee weapon rather than a single melee attack (this still only uses a Standard Action). If he does his attacks suffer a -2 penalty for the round, but any foes struck by his attacks that round suffer the effects of the cast spell.

    Arcane Endurance (Su): At 16th level, the Mageknight may expend a readied spell as an immediate action to gain a bonus on a saving throw equal to the level of the spell plus his Charisma modifier. This ability can be used after the die is rolled, but before the result is determined. Any saving throw adjusted by this ability doesn't automatically fail on a natural die roll of 1.

    Adamantine Apotheosis (Su): Beginning at 19th level, as long as a Mageknight wears medium or heavy armor he is immune to all effects that Constructs are immune to, he is immune to Cold and Fire, and finally he does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe.

    Starmetal Knight (Su): At 20th level a Mageknight finishes his mystical transmutation, becoming an Outsider with the Native subtype. He gains Damage Reduction 10/Adamantine and Fast Healing 3. As long as he wears medium or heavy armor he gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution and grants allies within 30ft Fast Healing 1.

    Forged Beyond Death (Su): At 20th level, when a Mageknight is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, as an immediate action he may lose all of his readied spells. If he does, his body is consumed by arcane energies and transmuted into a statue of incredibly durable metal alloy. For the next 24 hours, or until he regains 1 hit point, he is no longer a living creature, but an object (he may benefit from Cure spells and similar effects as though he were a living creature). He has Hardness equal to twice the total of readied spells expended this way + his Charisma modifier + his worn armor's enhancement bonus. He has hit points equal to 10 times that number.

    In this state, if his hit points are reduced to 0 he is destroyed, and attempts to resurrect him are tricky at best, requiring well worded Wishes or earnest Miracles to even begin.

    If the Mageknight regains at least 1 hit point, or spends 24 hours in this state, he reverts back to his normal, living form and regains hit points as if he'd had full bed rest for the duration.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2015-04-22 at 02:57 PM.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Reserved just in case.

    Feel free to comment.

    Warmage's Edge (ACF)
    Instead of investing your vitality into spells to make them more durable you use that same raw power to make your spells more explosive!
    Level: 3rd
    Replaces: Tenacious Spells
    Benefit: Whenever a spell you cast would deal hit point damage that spell deals additional hit point damage of the same type or types equal to your Constitution modifier times the spell's level.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-05-09 at 02:30 PM.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    neither of these classes seem powerful enough to offset the loss of the familiar...

    Without seeing the spell list its hard to comment too much further but sorcerer spells / day + all spells known seems very familiar.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    The rebuilt warmage is better than the old one, no question about that, but I think it may be a little too good. Just looking over the spell list it seems to have many of the staples like grease, obscuring mist, glitterdust, black tentacles, and quite a few other spells that are worthwhile. I think you might need to turn it down just a bit, because right now it seems to me to be like a sorcerer, but better.

    The mageknight seems to be comparable to the duskblade, casting off a little bit better list but losing some stuff like wraithstrike. Better HD, less spells per day, better class features, though you didn't actually define what channel spell does. So overall better than the duskblade, I'd say about a tier 3ish, which is mostly due to the spell list.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledore lives View Post
    The rebuilt warmage is better than the old one, no question about that, but I think it may be a little too good. Just looking over the spell list it seems to have many of the staples like grease, obscuring mist, glitterdust, black tentacles, and quite a few other spells that are worthwhile. I think you might need to turn it down just a bit, because right now it seems to me to be like a sorcerer, but better.
    I see no problem at it whatsoever. The warmage still has some of the typical issues (many similar spells differing only on the damage dealt or the area affected) and they still need stuff like Sculpt Spell or Archmage to prevent affecting allies. Adding spells such as Magic Weapon or haste or Black Tentacles or Glitterdust does nothing wrong; it expands the options of the Warmage and makes it a bit more of a WARmage; battlefield control should be the specialty of the Warmage, not merely evocation. In fact, I'd say it lacks a few spells, but so far it's a good list.

    Compare with the sorcerer, who STILL has Wings of Cover, Wings of Flurry, and...I dunno, the entirety of the Sorc/Wiz spell list, and you may notice that there's little difference. The warmage is just moderately better than before, and that's actually GOOD, not bad.

    If the spells scare you, I dunno what would happen if I suggested stuff like Scry, Arcane Sight and Greater Prying Eyes... Just saying...

    Also, to the OP: "The X Reborn!" isn't a trademark already? Not sure if jiriku has trademarked that... Just saying.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    If the spells scare you, I dunno what would happen if I suggested stuff like Scry, Arcane Sight and Greater Prying Eyes... Just saying...
    Would someone suggest that they are in the list already?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    4th Level: greater arcane sight, scrying

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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    I like how you've made this one. Well, these ones. Haven't looked much at the Mageknight, but the Warmage is looking good and I like that you gave them arcane spell failure reduction rather than "can cast in light armour" and such.

    I don't suppose you want these playtested?

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    Also, to the OP: "The X Reborn!" isn't a trademark already? Not sure if jiriku has trademarked that... Just saying.
    ...This remark made my twisted mind construe the idea of making a thread called "The X Reborn!" about how to become the best at being the letter X, or "The Jiriku Reborn!", which would of course be a joke class.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    I think i prefered the Warmage with Armoured Mage. It's simpler and easier to administer. This version is a little unclear, is it all or nothing or, like the one on the Spellsword [or whatever that CW one is called] simply reduce the failure chance by that much?

    Armoured Mage also has the advantage of allowing you to actually wander around in a suit of full plate with Shielded Casting on the go... which is just a great feat and always felt like a very "warmage" kind of thing to do. SWAT-mage kinda thing...

    The reduced spell levels...well, i'm not sure how i feel about that. Wait, yes i do, it's fine. This isn't Pathfinder. The issue was with me forgetting that you haven't just handed out Cantrips as an at will. [with Warmage Edge, they're pretty solid as they were in Pathfinder, where they just replace a bow or something]

    The mage knight revision, i like. Cleaner.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    In fact, I'd say it lacks a few spells, but so far it's a good list.
    Indeed, the idea was to make the spell list more tactical and therefore more useful in a pitched war. What spells would you consider it to be lacking.

    If the spells scare you, I dunno what would happen if I suggested stuff like Scry, Arcane Sight and Greater Prying Eyes... Just saying...
    Indeed these are already there. And Arcane Sight clocks in at 1st level.

    Also, to the OP: "The X Reborn!" isn't a trademark already? Not sure if jiriku has trademarked that... Just saying.
    Trademarked it? How would he do that? I've been titling threads like that for longer than him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    I think i prefered the Warmage with Armoured Mage. It's simpler and easier to administer. This version is a little unclear, is it all or nothing or, like the one on the Spellsword [or whatever that CW one is called] simply reduce the failure chance by that much?
    It works exactly like the Spellsword, if it's unclear I'll just rip the wording directly from the PrC.

    Armoured Mage also has the advantage of allowing you to actually wander around in a suit of full plate with Shielded Casting on the go... which is just a great feat and always felt like a very "warmage" kind of thing to do. SWAT-mage kinda thing...
    Whoa. Really awesome feat there. Very nice (I'd never heard of it). And the Warmage can still do that with Ignore Spell Failure X%, he just can't do it as early as the Mageknight can, which is the reason behind the different class features.

    The reduced spell levels...well, i'm not sure how i feel about that. Wait, yes i do, it's fine. This isn't Pathfinder. The issue was with me forgetting that you haven't just handed out Cantrips as an at will. [with Warmage Edge, they're pretty solid as they were in Pathfinder, where they just replace a bow or something]
    I wanted to do something simple and effective to make the evocations useful rather than something long-winded like completely rewriting all of them (though you'll note that I still tweaked a few of them).

    Right now I'm somewhat bothered that he has no "evocations deal +X more damage" at 1st level, but at the same time since that feature petered off in usefulness VERY fast I'm not too broken up about it.

    The mage knight revision, i like. Cleaner.
    Sadly, I do not like it completely. Yet.

    At the moment the Mageknight is heads and shoulders, leagues away more powerful and useful than a Warblade or Crusader of equal level, at all levels of play. This... is a problem. I'd still argue that it's never even close to Tier 2 now, but it's unoptimized level of power is much better than an unoptimized Warblade's and that's saying something.

    I'm working on a Mageknight v3 that maybe won't even get spellcasting at all until 4th level and cap out at 5th level spells. I'm not sure what to do.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-05-03 at 01:56 PM.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    ...This remark made my twisted mind construe the idea of making a thread called "The X Reborn!" about how to become the best at being the letter X, or "The Jiriku Reborn!", which would of course be a joke class.
    I am very tempted to make this thread now.... making "Jiriku Reborn" with a mix of 6 Million Dollar Man jokes and random buffing abilities....




    Anyway, on topic, if the Warmage is intended to be a blaster, he really really really needs some bonus metamagic. Even the baseline warmage has a few metamagic feats (though generally of the sub-par sudden metamagic variety). Anyone who is going to be a blaster needs to have at least a few bonus metamagic feats, the ability to apply them on the fly if a spontaneous caster, and preferably a metamagic reducer or two, or they're going to fall behind. The Extra Edge is nice and all, but there's no way I'd take this class past 6 rather than PrC out to something that does give those things.

    I get that you added some more versatility and durability to the warmage, but the class features still point at it being intended as being a blaster, and it fails at that role. Personally I'd narrow the spell selection back down just slightly, and introduce some features that lets him actually be good at his specialty, as opposed to a sorcerer with a bigger preselected spell list.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    @Seerow: That's missing the point. 1) A caster doesn't need to deal over 1,000 damage per spell at 20th level, and 2) The Warmage shouldn't be specialized in blasting, he should be specialized in WAR.

    Maybe I've gotta go back to the drawing board and take a look at things like the Warpriest, the Warchanter, and the War Weaver, trying to put together the concepts with a 3/4 BAB arcane spontaneous 9th level spellcaster without making it more powerful than a Tier 3 caster...
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    @Seerow: That's missing the point. 1) A caster doesn't need to deal over 1,000 damage per spell at 20th level, and 2) The Warmage shouldn't be specialized in blasting, he should be specialized in WAR.
    The problem is, your class features don't focus on that. You have increase the save DC of damage spells, increase the damage of damage spells, and allow the wearing of armor as your major class features. This points to a mage who is supposed to be blasting, and blasting well.

    If you want to expand that to a true master of war, you have to consider what that actually means. Many people would consider a warmage basically what it already is, someone who reins down death in aoe form onto a battlefield.

    Do you want him to be a commander style caster, who is buffing the troops, and controlling the enemy? If so, make the class features focus on that. Give the ability to spontaneously turn a buff into a mass version of said buff, or to spontaneously widen area spells. You may also want to consider in this case adding in a bit of teleportation and healing into the spell list, since your focus is on being where on the battlefield you need to be, and the healing is always nice in war to help keep the troops up (I notice you have raise dead as a 9th level spell, you could similarly slip in some healing effects at a higher level than normal).
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    I'll be re-redesigning the Warmage, so that it's more of a commander who uses superior tactical knowledge to boost and coordinate his allies and rain fire over his enemies. Among other tweaks he will use things similar to Marshal auras and Eldritch Tapestry. Hopefully I can balance this.

    The Mageknight... to be continued.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Ziegander you have become one of my favorite homebrewers on the face of the planet... along with a couple of others.

    but i feel compelled to ask... what makes familiars so broken? i have always found them to be a liability... i also don't tend to play casters often so... maybe that skews my perceptions

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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    You know, I never really understood why familiars are so powerful...

    Anyway, the warmage fix is kind of broken. Spells like the 4th level Delayed Blast Fireball and the standard action Control Weather are completely overpowered, and you seem to have lowered almost everything down by a spell level. I don't think this is the way to go. Also, I don't like the idea of reducing failure chance by a percentage rather than just ignoring it, as the latter is much more streamlined and simple.

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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by BladeTempest View Post
    but i feel compelled to ask... what makes familiars so broken? i have always found them to be a liability... i also don't tend to play casters often so... maybe that skews my perceptions
    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    You know, I never really understood why familiars are so powerful...
    lol, familiars aren't the broken part, that's just an old, old internet meme, a la The Lightning Warrior. They aren't broken, the Lightning Warrior was itself, but the author of the class stated emphatically and often that he omitted the familiar as a conscious design decision to better balance his class.

    Obviously to anyone around at the time this was el oh el material as the class was already stupidly overpowered and otherwise very poorly designed. Adding a familiar to it would have changed nothing and leaving it off didn't make it any less powerful.

    Anyway, the warmage fix is kind of broken. Spells like the 4th level Delayed Blast Fireball and the standard action Control Weather are completely overpowered, and you seem to have lowered almost everything down by a spell level. I don't think this is the way to go. Also, I don't like the idea of reducing failure chance by a percentage rather than just ignoring it, as the latter is much more streamlined and simple.
    I am curious why you think that Delayed Blast Fireball as a 4th level spell is overpowered. Consider that the original version was exactly the same as Fireball other than the fact that the damage cap was increased to 20d6 rather than 10d6 and you could delay it 5 rounds. Consider now that even using my version, a player casting Fireball at 8th level still does exactly the same amount of damage as a Warmage does casting Delayed Blast Fireball. The only difference is that the Warmage can use it as a time bomb, hence the reason it is 1 (or two in the case of the Warmage spell list) level higher.

    The standard action Control Weather allows you to summon Tornadoes or Hurricanes or Lightning. Okay, but the effects are still delayed by 1 round, and once they get there all you can do is tell them what direction to move. Lightning strikes randomly, and possibly doesn't even strike creatures at all, tornadoes move in whatever path they want. I will change the area and the range to be much smaller and I will make a minor functionality tweak.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    [Moved everything that WAS here to the first post...]
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-05-09 at 02:22 PM.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    I liked the first one a LOT more.

    Warmage should be the best one at what he does. BLAST STUFF.
    Also why does complete arcane warmage use CHA for casting, i allways belived they should cast using INT since they train and study in academis acording to the complete series. So thanks for that stat change it allways drived me mad .
    Last edited by pilvento; 2011-05-06 at 01:44 PM.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by pilvento View Post
    I liked the first one a LOT more.

    Warmage should be the best one at what he does. BLAST STUFF.
    Uh, if that was it, then the original Warmage is fine. The problem with Warmage isn't the lack of blasting (with the exceptions of Maw of Chaos and Wings of Flurry); it's the lack of other spells besides blasting. The Warmage isn't really meant to be ONLY a blaster, but a war-focused spellcaster. Spells like Grease, Stinking Cloud, Web and so forth, which aren't blasty spells, still offer the Warmage a great deal of crowd control through debuffs, something that complements very well the blasting ability (for example; Fireball + Warmage Edge + Quickened Web through Rapid Metamagic or Rod of Quicken Spell allows the Warmage to deliver a large amount of fire damage in a single round; with Delayed Blast Fireball, it deals even more).

    So it's not really that the Warmage blasts stuff; certainly, that's what it does better, but it should have something else. The fog spells are nice, but not enough. That's why the sorcerer wins at the same game of the warmage; you only need one good direct damage spell of each element and one spell to deal area damage, and cover the rest with protection and CC spells.

    Of course, the first version of the Warmage has such a spell list, so it's not like you'd protest around it. On the other hand, the OP wanted to do something different and thus it offered a second version tied a bit closer to being a buffing blaster.
    Also why does complete arcane warmage use CHA for casting, i allways belived they should cast using INT since they train and study in academis acording to the complete series. So thanks for that stat change it allways drived me mad .
    Because Complete Arcane happened before the devs accepted they could do spontaneous spellcasting with something other than Charisma. CHA has always been used for spontaneous spellcasting, and only with Duskblade they really broke that stigma; it happened with (Unseelie) Dark Hunter who used Wisdom-based spontaneous spellcasting, but it wasn't official. Complete Arcane really didn't went too far, being on the early part of 3.5 where they were pretty conservative (either too good or really bad).
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by pilvento View Post
    Warmage should be the best one at what he does. BLAST STUFF.
    And indeed the second Warmage is still going to have the very best blasting spell lists in the game even if it doesn't have any class features boosting it's spell damage it'll deal more damage, more effectively than any other caster.

    EDIT: Mageknight v3.0 is now up.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-05-07 at 03:46 AM.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Final edits made to the Warmage and Mageknight, updated the OP and added the Mageknight's capstone. The Mageknight presented here is much different than the one before and is comparable to my Swordsaint class (though Channel Spell operates different, more smoothly, for the Mageknight). I plan to add feats to this later.

    Thoughts? Comments?
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Like the capstone, all though the original con based caster with the reduction to armor penalties you made was really interesting. I hope you go somewhere with that idea, and the armor theme.

    Like what you have done, now I need a game to play it in.

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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    For the Starmetal Knight capstone, why is Electricity the only thing that pierces the Regeneration? (Even Adamantine doesn't as is.) Considering he apparently becomes kinda object-like (and can become a statue), sonic and acid would seem more appropriate.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    I just remembered an awkward rules interaction that makes the Mageknight immune to all damage because of Starmetal Knight. Lame... (editing)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    For the Starmetal Knight capstone, why is Electricity the only thing that pierces the Regeneration? (Even Adamantine doesn't as is.) Considering he apparently becomes kinda object-like (and can become a statue), sonic and acid would seem more appropriate.
    Oh, and in correcting the weird "immune to damage" loop I fixed your concern (because regeneration + nonlethal immunity was the problem).
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-05-08 at 06:46 PM.
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    Default Re: The Warmage Reborn (Featuring the Mageknight) PEACH!

    Yeah, lowering the range on Control Weather is what Wizards should have done in the first place. It sacrificed any combat use it could have had except in battles you were expecting for a range and duration that you couldn't possibly need for battlefield control situations.

    Well, now I get the whole familiar thing. I thought people were being serious about it. Psicrystals are strictly better, anyway, since they can be the origin point for your powers and they get feats.

    ANYWAY, The thing with DBF being broken as a 4th level spell isn't because it can be used earlier, but because it can be used more often, and for its use at higher levels. Why use 5th level spells to deal 15d6 damage when a 4th level spell can deal 10d6?

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