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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default What CR is this?

    Indominus
    CE Gargantuan magical beast
    Init+5;Senses low-light vision, thermal sense, Darkvision, scent; Perception +31
    Aura frightful presence (40 ft., DC 21)


    DEFENSE

    AC 25,touch 7,flat-footed 24 (+1 Dex, +18 natural, –4 size)
    hp 207 (18d10+108)
    Fort +17,Ref +12,Will+10;


    OFFENSE

    Speed 50 ft.
    Melee bite +26 (4d6+24/19–20 plus grab) 2 claws + 26 (2d6+12 plus grab)
    Space 20 ft.Reach 20 ft.
    Special Attacks swallow whole (2d8+11, AC 19, hp 17)


    STATISTICS

    Str 34, Dex 13,Con 23,Int 12,Wis 15, Cha 14;
    Base Atk 18;CMB+34 (+38 grapple); CMD 44
    Feats Bleeding Critical, Critical Focus, Diehard, Endurance, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Run, Intimidating Prowess
    Skills Intimidate +32, Perception +31 Stealth +10 (+20 with camouflage);*Racial Modifiers*+8 Perception
    Languages Common, Draconic (cannot speak)
    SQ camouflage, crash through, dino empathy, powerful bite, roar, thermal sense


    ECOLOGY

    Environment warm forest and plains
    Organization solitary, pair, or pack (3-4)
    Treasure none


    SPECIAL ABILITIES


    Camouflage (Ex) An indominus can spend one minute adjusting the coloration, texture, and even temperature of its skin to gain an additional +10 on stealth. This ability also allows it to hide from creatures with blindsight, blindsense, or thermal sense.
    Crash Through (Ex) An indominus’ movement is not impeded by undergrowth, trees, rubble, and similar difficult terrain; by Medium or smaller creatures; or by allies of any size. An indominus can attempt a combat maneuver to overrun a Gargantuan or smaller opponent as a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
    Dino empathy (Ex) This ability functions as the druid's wild empathy, save that an indominus can only use this ability on dinosaurs. An indominus gains a +4 racial bonus on this check.
    Powerful Bite (Ex) An indominus applies twice its Strength modifier to bite damage.
    Roar (Ex) An indominus’ roar is loud and horrifying. When an indominus roars (a standard action the creature can perform at will), all hearing creatures within a 200-foot spread must succeed on a DC 25 Will save or become frightened for 1d6 rounds. Even if the save is successful creatures are still shaken for the duration. This is a sonic, mind-affecting fear effect. The save DC is Constitution-based.
    Thermal sense (Ex) An indominus has the ability to sense fine gradations in heat. This functions as blindsense against living creatures and blindsight against creatures with the Fire or Cold subtypes.
    Last edited by kopout; 2016-06-03 at 08:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
    Industrial miny city!
    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What CR is this?

    CR 17 is close. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/b...rCreation.html

    BTW, I made one as an Animal. It is in my signature if you want to look at it for comparison.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2016-06-05 at 11:04 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    upho's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What CR is this?

    I think CR 17 would be way too high for this monster.

    In terms of base defense values, its AC is the equal to that of an average CR 11 monster, and both its Hp and save bonuses are most similar to a CR 14 monster. Its melee attack bonus and damage (its main offense) is considerably better though, being slightly less than equal to that of a typical CR 16 monster, while the DC of its Roar and Frightful Presence aura special abilities (if considered secondary combat abilities, as would be appropriate) are lightyears ahead, being about equal to a CR 23 monster. And finally, if going by its HD and creature type, it should be CR 13.

    In general, I think the main issue with the Indominus here is that it's a glass cannon, IMO the most problematic kind of opponent due to its highly unpredictable impact on combat. For example, if this monster wins initiative or gets a surprise round (which is quite likely considering Stealth abilities and special senses), it may very well one-shot a PC before anyone in the party has been able to act. And on the other hand, its significantly weaker defense values tells me it wouldn't even survive half the average round against the currently 9th level party I DM for. So if they find the Indominus before it finds them and/or at least two of them win initiative (likely) if there's no surprise round, there's a very high probability they'd kill it without taking a scratch (besides perhaps being shaken for a few seconds). Such swingy combat results are less fun IMO, especially when the outcome is largely dependent on the fluke of a few die rolls rather than the proper use of PC abilities and tactics.

    My recommendation is that you at least try to better match defenses with melee accuracy and damage, decreasing and/or increasing either group of values to get closer to the averages. I would probably also lower the DCs a bit, but considering the target values of secondary abilities are way too low IME, and that in this case the effects are not especially serious while the related saves are commonly given substantial bonuses, I would rather aim for the target DCs of primary abilities. Once you're done, have a look at it again and try to set a fitting CR.

    Also, keep in mind that CR is a very inaccurate and frequently even misleading measure of the threat a creature's actually poses to a party. So if you want your Indominus to keep numbers that are all over the place when compared to CR target values, it doesn't have to be a problem as long as you're well aware of the creature's strengths an weaknesses and are certain it'll work fine in your game. In this case, I'd suggest you simply compare it to other monster's you're familiar with to find a fitting CR and XP value (or if that isn't an option, simply use the average CR of the corresponding target values as a guideline).

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bethesda, MD

    Default Re: What CR is this?

    Without the extra special abilities beyond those of a T-Rex, I'd call it CR 12. The powerful extra abilities are Camouflage, Frightful Presence, and Roar (Crash Through and Thermal Sense are nice, but edge case abilities. Dino empathy is an indication to the GM to put extra dinosaurs on the side of Indominus Rex, but that raises the encounter CR without increasing the CR of the creature).

    As upho stated, Camouflage gives IR a much better chance of surprise. Even with it, though, there's a decent chance that IR will be spotted by at least one PC.

    To me, the big one-two punch is Frightful Presence plus Roar. Any character that doesn't have immunity to fear must make two consecutive will saves or run away. Now that the party is scattered, IR can deal with them one at a time. Yes, there are some defenses against fear (here's what I found in the core rulebook):

    -Barbarian Fearless Rage Power (self-immunity, 12th level, optional power)
    -Bard Inspire Courage (+3 to party at level 11)
    -Fighter Bravery (+3 to self at level 10, +4 at 14)
    -Paladin Aura of Courage (self-immunity, +4 to party members within 10', plus mercy options)
    -Remove Fear Spell (Clerics and Paladins)
    -Breastplate of Command (+2 to party, expensive)

    An unprepared party is unlikely to have much defense against fear. A prepared party will be able to defeat IR more easily, but then again that should be true of most boss monsters. The party gets a bounty of XP for the high-CR creature and deserves it for the preparation done.

    With all this said, I would make the CR at least 16, and only that low if you change Roar so that it cannot affect the same creature more than once in a 24-hour period. If Roar stacks with itself, then opponents are automatically frightened after one round unless they are immune to fear. While I'm on suggestions about stats, I would bring swallow whole in line with the creature's other stats (2d8+12, AC 19, hp 20).

    Anyway, as upho mentioned, keep in mind that depending on the party makeup, different creatures pose different threats than normal.

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