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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Welcome, one and all.

    This is a thread where we Playgrounders, and LGBTAitp in particular, gather to discuss, share our experiences, give general advice and support one another in such matters as arise relating to, well, the world beyond heteronormativity.

    Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment.

    • Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
    • Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
    • It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
    • Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe )

    If you would rather be anonymous when asking for advice or sharing your story or views, you can use the address below to send a message to be posted in this thread via proxy.

    http://anonmail.smeenet.org/

    Keep in mind that content which contain strong language may be filtered (Plus, y'know, the forum-filters), and content that violates the forum rules won't be posted at all.

    Here are the links for the last few threads, where much of use or interest may be found:
    1. LGBT people in the playground
    2. LGBT people in the playground - part II
    3. LGBTitp - part III
    4. LGBTitp 4: We are a family?
    5. LGBTitp - Part Five
    6. LGBTitp - Part Six
    7. LGBTitp - Part Seven
    8. LGBTitp - Part Eight
    9. LGBTitp - Part Nine
    10. LGBTAitp - Part Ten
    11. LGBTAitp - Part Eleven
    12. LGBTAitp - Part Twelve
    13. LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    *modified from the original.
    Last edited by Nix Nihila; 2011-05-23 at 11:15 PM.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    *snif*

    Is that a new thread I smell?

    On topic: I've been considering writing out my "story" about my feelings regarding my gender identity, it might help me get my feelings sorted out a bit better.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    To keep on the previous subject:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    Well, if you are not L, G, B, T or A, but still consider yourself part of the umbrella that LGBT covers, you kind of ask "why did we add a non-standard letter and not a letter that covers me". Or maybe only I do that.
    It's true that the more letters are added that don't cover me, the more I feel excluded. On the other hand, I don't think removing letters is the way to go, and I think if we added letters for every group it would get way too long. That's why I supported the idea of a title that wasn't an acronym at all, and therefore didn't implicitly exclude people by not explicitly including them.

    But oh well, now we have 50 more pages to think about it I guess :p

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirroelivan View Post
    *snif*

    Is that a new thread I smell?

    On topic: I've been considering writing out my "story" about my feelings regarding my gender identity, it might help me get my feelings sorted out a bit better.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    So, since I derailed the last page of the last thread because I felt offended by the title, I suppose I'll just explain my situation (I don't recall if I ever did so in detail).

    I identify with the LGBT crowd. Rather strongly, in fact, and have gotten into some heated arguments with my father over it (though to be fair, I don't think he's got any problems with them besides my closeness to the issue). I also don't feel like there needs to be any non-physical differences between males and females, and I am told I act rather feminine sometimes. But besides that, I don't know why I identify so much with the issue. It's cool to preach the equality of all people, of course, and make friends of people regardless of their sexual orientation and identity (please don't be offended by my choice of the word "cool"), but it's not always the most logical thing to do if you are going out of your way to do so and risk being harmed in the process, especially in a region as unenlightened as the one I live in. My psychologist thinks that while it is not that unusual for non-LGBT people to be interested in the issue, my intensity is. She suggested several times now that I might be a bisexual-in-denial (she never suggested I might be homosexual, though), but she never pressed the issue for long.

    However, whenever I think about it, I don't identify with any particular subgroup. Ignoring the fact that I cannot possibly be a lesbian, I've never found myself sexually interested in guys (though if Michael J. Fox comes a-knocking, I might give it one shot), I'm quite content with being a male, I do have a sex drive, and I don't think the social definitions of gender have an effect on who I am, so I don't consider myself "gender-queer". By all means, a lot of people would think I am not a part of the whole umbrella (and who knows, maybe I am not), so when I first started contemplating the issue, LGBT seemed like a respectable compromise. I never knew any other abbreviations, and it was always clear that it included more than the its letters in my interactions with anyone who identified as such.

    So, when the A was first included in the title, I felt kind of... rejected, I guess? I had felt that asexuals were already included in the group, even without the letter. So if they need a letter to feel welcome, what about others? What about people who don't know what letter they are? What about me? Where do I fit in?

    At the time I did not press the issue, because other people were already arguing about it, and I did not want to say something wrong. And I missed the last page each time a thread ended, so I did not feel like trying to influence things when the time for it was already past. This time, however, I was there when the last thread started, so I kinda lashed out. In retrospect, I realize that it is selfish, but it does not lessen the feeling of rejection. And if you have been following the Depression Thread or the RW&A, you might know how terrible I am socially and how much I fear rejection.

    So, in short, I was stupid and selfish, and I hope you can understand and forgive me.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    I understand, Rose Dragon, and feel kind of similar. I think adding a + would have been better than adding the A, it would have been more inclusive. Now if the + is added, it will have to be after the A, but it does send the message that everything else is less important.
    It was fine with LGBT because it's commonly used, and understood to include more than that, as you said. I agree that adding one more group (whichever it was) makes it exclude the rest more.
    But I realise removing a letter would be the completely wrong message, too.

    Rose Dragon, I'm not sure what to call people who are outside the gender spectrum. Like you, I don't understand the concept of gender at all. I feel genderless more than genderqueer. But I don't feel it's something that defines me so I don't want to carry a label about it. Out of the people in this thread I think I understand transgenders the least. I'm to transgendered and cisgendered people what asexuals are to sexuals of any orientation.

    I get homosexuality, and bisexuality because I get being attracted to some people, since I am (to males. Physical males). I understand asexuality because I'm not attracted to physical females. But I don't understand the concept of being transgendered or cisgendered because I don't understand the concept of having a gender.

    Yet I don't feel neutrois either, as it seems to be feeling like you're neither (the article about it talked about it being traumatic and some people mutilating themselves because they wanted to have nothing at all down there. It's not me at all).
    Being who I am isn't a trauma or hard or anything. I deal with my female body fine, and I don't see why I wouldn't have dealt with a male body fine if I had had one. All things being equal, I don't see why I'd want to change bodies since it doesn't make a difference to me.


    Mmh, it's starting to get an essay. Anyways, my point was, Rose Dragon, I understand the way you feel. I too feel like it's stupid and selfish to be annoyed by something like that. On the other hand, I wonder, how long is the acronym going to get? I feel that something that doesn't specifically list every group would work better. Something about non-normative sexual orientations and gender identities, for instance. But meh, ultimately the name doesn't really matter as much as the content.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    This article might be of some small interest.

    But, then again, it might not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Hmm.. I like the idea of adding a plus, although it does make the title look a bit clunky. But that's an aesthetic thing.

    I'm also considering adding a couple sentences explaining the acronym, as Coidzor suggested, and also a sentence explaining that while the acronym isn't all inclusive, the thread is. Or something to that effect.

    Thoughts?

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Sounds like a plan to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nix Nihila View Post
    In any case, I've gone ahead and made another thread (am I breaking some convention by doing this? It appears as if the previous threads were all created by SMEE, Jacklu, and Coidzor).
    Not really? I only made a thread because Jacklu and SMEE weren't around and one needed to be made. I can't recall but I think Jacklu only started because SMEE wasn't around, so, y'know, no ego bruising inherent in doing it, as far as I know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Not really? I only made a thread because Jacklu and SMEE weren't around and one needed to be made. I can't recall but I think Jacklu only started because SMEE wasn't around, so, y'know, no ego bruising inherent in doing it, as far as I know.
    It's a bit more complicated than that. Jacklu started a thread after you did. The first three threads were created by SMEE, but something happened during the third thread that highly upset her, so she left the job. You took up the fourth in her absence, and after that Jacklu started each thread until this one. However, there is no taboo against starting a new thread if Jacklu doesn't do it.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
    Do it! Doitdoitdoitdoit!
    It's not very interesting though.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    I understand, Rose Dragon, and feel kind of similar. I think adding a + would have been better than adding the A, it would have been more inclusive. Now if the + is added, it will have to be after the A, but it does send the message that everything else is less important.
    It was fine with LGBT because it's commonly used, and understood to include more than that, as you said. I agree that adding one more group (whichever it was) makes it exclude the rest more.
    But I realise removing a letter would be the completely wrong message, too.
    Ahh... ye olde acronym issue. How do we make it fully inclusive and how do we avoid making it cumbersome?

    Personally, I'm all for using the word Queer as a umbrella term, but I'm given to understand some may have issues with that word, so it may not be that good a choice.

    The alphabet soup method ends up being rather exhaustive and exhausting to use, but even so some people are bound to feel the lack of a letter for them even if "Queer", "Questioning", and "Ally" are all included.

    I suppose one could always invent a new word, but then that would lack acceptance and understanding at first so would require something of a marketing campaign to get it into widespread useage.

    Adding a plus does seem good, although there is the issue of everyone not already in the acronym feeling somewhat less important.

    There should be some sort of world-wide gay* symposium to debate this issue and come up with a standardized solution.

    * and by gay I mean consisting of all the people who feel they should be included in the acronym, not just gay people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    This article might be of some small interest.

    But, then again, it might not.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Short story time. So I went to a small housewarming party with some friends this weekend and two of them are a gay couple where one is a stereotypical metal head and the other is very flamboyant. After a couple of drinks the metal guy ends up in the others lap and tells him he loves him so much. The other guy then looks deeply into his eyes and told him to stop gaying things up and kissed him.

    On the other hand, I wonder, how long is the acronym going to get? I feel that something that doesn't specifically list every group would work better. Something about non-normative sexual orientations and gender identities, for instance. But meh, ultimately the name doesn't really matter as much as the content.
    Indeed since then you'd probably get an acronym a couple of billions letter long since well (at least in my opinion) it's very rare for two people to have the exactly same sexual identity. For example I identify as straight although a more clearer identity would be bi but leaning so heavily towards straight that I can count the number of guys I've met and been sexually interested in on one hand yet still I do find some men very pleasing to look at. But that takes too bloody long.

    Woo ninja edit: Also a bit off topic and has probably been brought up in some of the old threads but when/if you came out who did/will you tell why and under what circumstances did you decide to tell that person?

    I'm asking since I've kinda only told one person I know in real life (my best friend) that I'm not 100% straight and that was while drunk so I'm not sure he believed me. As it stands I doubt I´m going to explicitly come out to anyone else unless I happen to start dating a boy.
    Last edited by pffh; 2011-05-23 at 07:00 PM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    I like GLOW (Gay, Lesbian, or whatever).
    Also, watching this new show Gumball, and this is like the third show. This guys dad tried to do the laundry, but shrunk all the clothes, so this (male) kid has to wear his mom's wedding dress (?). So everyone loves him as a girl and he discovers how awesome it is to be a beautiful girl. And his (male) best friend fell in love with him.
    I guess that's cool?
    Edit: so to escape he puts the dress on a balloon and plans to send it to Europe but it just gets popped by the sun, and the dress falls on a fire hydrant, with the best friend proclaiming his sudden love for it, and remarking "Your silence is like a thousand words". Thought that was really cool.
    Last edited by Qaera; 2011-05-23 at 06:57 PM.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    I never liked queer as a word, at least not as adopted for the LGBTAQWTFBBQ crowd. As a quaint way to say something is odd, or strange, it's wonderful.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Can I ask some advice from my Lesbian/Gay friends here? I have a bit of an issue, so I'd like your prospectives.

    I am about to finally become a known-donor. The mother/carrier has stated that both mothers have agreed that I "will be the father, and we will not keep it from knowing you". Issue is, the wife of the carrier is pure lesbian, has had a very bad history with men, and is a bit of a man-hater. The carrier has proven to be a trust-worth friend, and we text/talk everyday. She has said she does not plan to stop taking to me, even though her wife does not like it.

    Should I be worried I will be hurting their relationship?

    I have tried to get on good terms with the other mother/wife, but she wants nothing to do with me...

    Thank you all for any advice.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    I don't think you should worry about hurting their relationship, but I'd suggest that you give the unfriendly partner a respectful amount of space and not push her to like/accept you. Hopefully, in time she'll come to accept you and her partner's desire to include you.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Why did you all enter into such an arrangement knowing that one party didn't want it at all in the first place?

    Not much you can do but make the best of a bad situation by not pressing the issue with the woman who doesn't want to interact with you and not doing anything that would look too untoward towards the woman who you do interact with.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2011-05-23 at 07:52 PM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by AThousandWords View Post
    I like GLOW (Gay, Lesbian, or whatever).
    What about HAH! Humans Against Heterocentrism!
    Though that may sound just a little bit aggressive. Also possibly leaves out the non-humans among us.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kris View Post
    What about HAH! Humans Against Heterocentrism!
    Though that may sound just a little bit aggressive. Also possibly leaves out the non-humans among us.
    HAHAHEHEHA
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Weird question. Am I suppose to care that friend came out to me? I mean, yeah, I'd help them if they were being picked on (sexuality regardless), but I really don't see their sexual preferences as any of my business anyway.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by AThousandWords View Post
    HAHAHEHEHA
    Humans Against Heterocentricism and Humans Exhibiting Heterocentrism Except Human Allies
    I think at this point we're just going to have to try and fit a good ol' 'BWA' or 'MUA' in the beginning somewhere.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll View Post
    Weird question. Am I suppose to care that friend came out to me? I mean, yeah, I'd help them if they were being picked on (sexuality regardless), but I really don't see their sexual preferences as any of my business anyway.
    Well, you should care since your friend obviously feels comfortable enough around you to tell you.

    Just don't make a big deal out of it or ignore that they told you. I can't speak for other people, but if I came out to someone, I would want them to treat me pretty much the same.
    Last edited by Nix Nihila; 2011-05-23 at 09:07 PM.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll View Post
    Weird question. Am I suppose to care that friend came out to me? I mean, yeah, I'd help them if they were being picked on (sexuality regardless), but I really don't see their sexual preferences as any of my business anyway.
    Not really. If you don't care, you don't care, and that's the ideal situation anyway. I suppose some amount of empathy towards them might be in order though, if it was hard for them to come out to you despite the fact that you wouldn't and don't care and wouldn't treat them differently.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2011-05-23 at 09:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kris View Post
    What about HAH! Humans Against Heterocentrism!
    Though that may sound just a little bit aggressive. Also possibly leaves out the non-humans among us.


    Yes, it would.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post


    Yes, it would.
    I dunno, maybe it'd get them to at least introduce themselves at our meet and greets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll View Post
    Weird question. Am I suppose to care that friend came out to me? I mean, yeah, I'd help them if they were being picked on (sexuality regardless), but I really don't see their sexual preferences as any of my business anyway.
    Well, before I even knew Choray (my girlfriend, only a friend at the time though) was in gender transition, I treated her like, well, a her. So, naturally, after I learned the full picture, it was still pretty easy for me to keep it up. So I can't say for sure, not knowing your full situation, but treating them the same is probably the best way to go.
    Last edited by strawberryman; 2011-05-23 at 10:06 PM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post


    Yes, it would.
    Sorry, but 'SBAH!' doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    I kinda feel sad whenever these discussions/arguments about the A in the thread pop up. It shouldn't affect me, but thing is... I kind of was a little part of that A being there. Every time a thread was started, I'd post "Someday asexuals ought to be included in there" mostly in jest because I didn't really need it or anything.

    And one day... it happened. I posted the same wish and Jacklu outright quoted what I said and added the A. That day... I smiled.

    It wasn't even the meaning of A. It doesn't matter to me if it means "Asexual" or "Allies" or "All" or whatever. It was, really, the whole gesture. The listening. Someone CARING that I would be listened to, CARING about the way I felt. It was a beautiful gesture to me, even if it was some kind of coincidence, even if there had been previous plans to place the A there. I was still quoted when it happened. For once someone listened . It came at a very critical time for me, too. A time in which I had not smiled for weeks, I had cried for weeks instead. I know that the A wasn't put there for me. But it was like someone giving a smile when you're having a nasty day. Just a tiny little kind gesture can go SUCH a long way in brightening someone's day. So every time I see that A, I feel a little warmer and fuzzier inside, I smile a little even though I'm going through a very hard time. Because it brings back All those little gestures which don't really cost us anything and can really change someone's day.

    Just thought I'd say that.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    nubivagant

    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

    Oh.

    ....

    Somebody started the new thread... and not... me....

    Will just be in the irrelevant corner not mattering anymore. Carry on.
    Still not really here. Still just an illusion.

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