As a player, should I hold back doing 'cool' move instead of a 'rational' move?

[Garwain]

Doing something in character that might not always be the best rational choice, but will be so much fun if it works, is appealing to me. I rather take my chances even though sometimes they are less than 50% just because that option is so much cooler than the standard (prudent) one. But doing so, I introduce an element of risk for my character and thus the whole party. Last session, I had a great daring plan, but didn't execute it and we went for the rational (boring) plan. A few days later, I'm still regretting not pushing my idea through.

What happened:

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4 kobolds and their pet were on lower grounds, 20 feet below. The sneaky types of the group did some good hide and move silently checks to get a look over the edge down. I'm playing the Cleric in medium armor, so naturally, I suck at sneaking. My plan was to run to the edge, jump down onto a kobold and whack it in the process. The others would make a surprise round shooting/sneaking at the others. The DM allowed my daring plan. With a bit of luck, most of the kobolds would be down before they knew what happened.

The rest of the group decided that I wasn't in the shape of doing stunts and preferred to all get into position, lean over the edge and start shooting. With cover and all that, it was a good plan. I did failed the move silently checks, we lost the surprise round, the pet was released but we nailed them anyway, because, yeh, we rock.

So we were alright, survived etc. But still I'm left with the naggin feeling what would have happened if.... So my question to the board: should I have pushed on my idea and do something daring, against the better judgement? Because frankly, next time, I'll jump....

[Tengu_temp]

It depends heavily on the group and DM. Some DMs reward doing the cool but reckless thing, some penalize it. Personally, I'm in the reward camp - it's much more fun than playing it safe.

[lady_arrogance]

I'd say there is two factors in this problem.

First is, that who much of tactical gaming versus role-playing your group is doing? If you are tactics-heavy, and lighter side on RP, then you could at least to inform your fellow players, that you are going to do something not-so-safe.

Second is your character. Is s/he prone to thinking ahead, or will s/he rush into fight even if it's not the best option available?

And you should also ask your fellow players, that do they mind, if you continue to risk whole party for sake of fun/cool...

[RebelRogue]

My group has a basic way of determining courses of action: Would it look good in a movie? If the answer is yes, do it!

[Morph Bark]

It depends heavily on the group and DM. Some DMs reward doing the cool but reckless thing, some penalize it. Personally, I'm in the reward camp - it's much more fun than playing it safe.

I find it even worse when DMs outright have the cool action not work at all. In the only 4E campaign I was in, I tried my best to come up with cool stuff to do and resolve conflicts in different ways, but it never worked.

[DeadManSleeping]

If your group says "no", they mean it. Keep asking for chances to do cool things, and you'll probably get some. However, if they like their tactics, do tactics. It's all about everyone having fun, and it's a lot less fun when people are grumbling about losing a health potion because somebody wouldn't play it safe.

[Serpentine]

As already said, it depends a lot on group and circumstances, but personally: Cool every time.
In fact, I so wish my players would get more creative that I give them "Cool Points" for doing something awesome*.


*Also for cooperation, and clever use of skills, spells and abilities.

[Seb Wiers]

One person's cool move is anothers spot light hogging. If your character isn't good at something, and others have a plan that will work that makes use of talents they ARE good at, you should let them carry it out. There's plenty of cool movies with stealthy ambush scenes, right?

[Jay R]

First, find out how your DM feels about cool moves. Some people think they're dumb, and punish you for them. If your DM is in that group, drop the idea.

Then find out how the party feels about it. They don't get a veto, but they should have input, since they are sharing at least some of the risk.

Then, if it's worth trying in this campaign at all, there are four factors to consider in each specific case:
1. What's the probability of failure without the cool move?
2. What's the probability of failure with the cool move?
3. What's the penalty of failure? (Are you risking having to take an extra day to renew health and spells, or are you risking a TPK?)
4. What difference is there between winning with the rational tactic and winning with the cool move? (Will it potentially save more lives, or impress the princess, or build your heroic reputation?)

Then you make a judgment call each time based on the above.

[Just_Ice]

(singing (badly)) DEEEEPEEENNNNDDDDSSS ONNNN THEEEE DMMMMMM ANNNDDDD YOURRRR PAAAAARTTTYYYYYY (/singing)

Some DMs are just boring as heck. There's not much to be done about it.

[manyslayer]

Echoing the "depends on the DM/group" I'd also say it depends on the system. Some games are easier to do cool stuff (and some actually reward cool stuff) so that can also be a factor. But, as with so much, it all comes down to the DM/group.

I like cool stuff but it has to reasonably have a chance to work. Jumping off the 20 story building to land on the mook, while it might kill the mook, will also kill your 3rd level rogue (but I will give you sneak attack damage).

Conversely, if you pull off a cool move, I grant bonuses to effects and subsequent NPC reaction. In my last campaign (Spelljammer) had a sorcerer that swung across ship-to-ship to jump into a companionway and throw a bomb at the chain fighter locking down their main melee combat character. He had no proficiency with firearms (including bombs), no rope use, no jump and no tumble skill. Rolled a 19 to swing across, 20 to land where he wanted, and, while he missed the bomb throw, it scattered right to place the enemy in the blast. Granted a cool bonus to the save DC for the bomb and none of the NPC crew doubt that the sorcerer can do what he says he can now. Was it a good idea for him to try this? No. Was it cool? Absolutely (since it worked).

[LrdoftheRngs]

Personally as a DM, I heavily encourage my players to do "cool" things, because the objective of D&D is, overall, to have fun. I will often give these acts "Rule of Cool" bonuses. However, I also play by the "if it's innovative enough, let it work/ give it a better chance of working" rule.

[jpreem]

Lee-e--e-e-e-roy Jenkins! All the way!

[Mastikator]

I'd like to say "yes", but the thing is, people aren't rational, PC's aren't different. Instead, do what seems reasonable to the PC.

[Tengu_temp]

One person's cool move is anothers spot light hogging. If your character isn't good at something, and others have a plan that will work that makes use of talents they ARE good at, you should let them carry it out. There's plenty of cool movies with stealthy ambush scenes, right?

I played with a guy who complained that he gets no spotlight, even though he was given plenty of opportunities to use his character's unique talents and often ignored them, and shown very little initiative in other situations. If Player X complains that Player Y steals too much spotlight, and it's not because Player Y has an overpowered build or is favored by the DM but because he comes up with interesting and cool things more often, than most of the time Player X can only blame himself.

[Delwugor]

The Rule of Cool reigns supreme for me, even if it doesn't for the GM.
The negative result of this comes when a GM says "No". I often want to do things no matter what, my character may fail, he may fail miserably but I want him to at least attempt it.

As a GM the Rule of Cool reigns supreme no matter what.

[Garwain]

I played with a guy who complained that he gets no spotlight, even though he was given plenty of opportunities to use his character's unique talents and often ignored them, and shown very little initiative in other situations. If Player X complains that Player Y steals too much spotlight, and it's not because Player Y has an overpowered build or is favored by the DM but because he comes up with interesting and cool things more often, than most of the time Player X can only blame himself.

Thanks for the input guys. I did not consider the 'stealing the spotlight' aspect. Maybe I was more concerned about MY cool move. I know I can get excited when I'm convinced my idea will work, that's why I held back, and rolled with the party plan. And that's why i'm left with an unsatisfied feeling. To get into the spotlight, you have to grab it actively, and I'll do that next time I'm afraid.

[Knaight]

I'd call this genre dependent more than anything. If the group is trying to play a high flying wuxia campaign, its cool move time. If they are trying to play a gritty sword and sorcery game, it is not cool move time.

[Totally Guy]

I'm in two minds about this...

On the one hand I think that the existance of optimal choices are detrimental to roleplaying:

"Should I heal the warrior or kill the orc to avenge my family?" - That's an interesting choice.
"Should I heal the warrior and kill the orc to avenge my family?" - A choice with an optimal solution is not really a choice at all.

But on the other hand I appreciate that games and players tend to expect sub-optimal choices to be made occasionally.

"We bury him in his armour. He deserves his dignity in the grave" - That's good play but can also be considered a sub-optimal decision.

I like games that offer a metagame reward currency so that a rational player that makes optimal choices will produce fictionally sub-optimal results, like burying a friend in his armour.

[averagejoe]

Thanks for the input guys. I did not consider the 'stealing the spotlight' aspect. Maybe I was more concerned about MY cool move. I know I can get excited when I'm convinced my idea will work, that's why I held back, and rolled with the party plan. And that's why i'm left with an unsatisfied feeling. To get into the spotlight, you have to grab it actively, and I'll do that next time I'm afraid.

Well, there are ways to do stuff without grabbing the spotlight. For example, one campaign I was in we were supposed to go into this mansion and rescue someone. I convinced everyone that we had to make a dramatic surprise entrance by busting through the ceiling. But the thing is, everyone got to bust through the ceiling together, and everyone got to feel really cool while doing. (Well, okay, it actually ended up taking a few more rounds to bust through than I'd hoped. Which alerted the guys inside and made the fight much harder for us. So it wasn't, "Cool," so much as it was, "Terrible." Ah, well, I regret nothing.)

[Serpentine]

I like games that offer a metagame reward currency so that a rational player that makes optimal choices will produce fictionally sub-optimal results, like burying a friend in his armour.

As well as my aforementioned Cool Points, I give substantial Roleplaying Experience bonuses for players who roleplay to their (mechanical and/or metagame) disadvantage.
So if you do something really really cool, that's perfectly in-character to do, you'll be rollin' in it

[Totally Guy]

As well as my aforementioned Cool Points, I give substantial Roleplaying Experience bonuses for players who roleplay to their (mechanical and/or metagame) disadvantage.
So if you do something really really cool, that's perfectly in-character to do, you'll be rollin' in it

And your players know you do that?

I was suprised a few weeks back when a GM gave me some bonus Karma in a Shadowrun session for helping a contact with no expectation of reward. I think I would have preferred to know it upfront.

I'd like to experiment with bonus points being a team resource so that it'd never look selfish when one player risks a team asset for personal characterisation.

[Serpentine]

And your players know you do that?

Sure. I even ask anyone hanging around afterwards to jog my memory of what they think happened that game that might deserve it.
I wish they'd take advantage of it more often The best at it was my ex, and he's long gone. He once cashed in a bunch of Cool Points to make a door he nicked be magical...

[Necroticplague]

I'm a bit odd on this. I like doing the "cool" thing, but I'm a defensive type person who prefers to not take risks. I usually find a comfortable middle ground by getting regeneration that's hard to beat, which gives me an excuse to live through all kinds of stupid-but-awesome acts. Like the below example.

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In a game, we had been captured by some kind of feral drider gang, and my character bargained his life for the release of his teammates. The driders try to interrogate my character, who makes it such a pain for them that they resort to tearing my character's arm off. They then taunt me with it, much hand puns were made. They get bored, and throw my arm at me. My response?" I reattach my arm to my socket, then flip them off with it."

[Kurald Galain]

It depends heavily on the group and DM. Some DMs reward doing the cool but reckless thing, some penalize it. Personally, I'm in the reward camp - it's much more fun than playing it safe.

This. Also, I'm strongly in favor of RPGs where cool actions get a bonus to succeed.

[Nero24200]

I prefer "You can do cool stuff, but it will be as hard as realisticly expected (or as realisitic as a fantasy game can get)". If someone wants to do a diving charge off of a 60ft high cliff onto a foe below I'll let them, but they'll still take the falling damage unless they have a way to negate it.

And well....at the end of the day, if the damage doesn't kill you and the fight's over theres little to worry about, so this option really comes across as "Sure, but if it could kill you that risk remains".

[Jay R]

If the others in your party get annoyed at you stealing the spotlight by doing cool stuff that might kill your character, there's an easy solution.

Just invent cool stuff for them to do, that might kill their characters.

In the cause of fairness, I am more than willing to risk the lives of their characters instead of my own.

[Knaight]

I prefer "You can do cool stuff, but it will be as hard as realisticly expected (or as realisitic as a fantasy game can get)". If someone wants to do a diving charge off of a 60ft high cliff onto a foe below I'll let them, but they'll still take the falling damage unless they have a way to negate it."

What works really well here is to use genre appropriateness as a gauge of difficulty. For instance, in my Archipelago's game, putting your rifle between a couple of rocks, poking the slightest bit of your head above them, and taking an aimed shot is a very easy and safe action, because that is how that incarnation of that setting rolls. In my Alchemquest game, which is the same setting in a different incarnation, jumping over the rocks wearing a gas mask while your friend triggers an alchemical array that turns all the nitrogen in the opponents position into chlorine, then cutting people down with your tungsten coated sword is easy, because that is how that incarnation of the setting rolls. In the Archipelago, taking the Alchemquest attempted action is suicide, and even if you have someone with alchemical capabilities they probably don't have the power to pull that off, though traps in advance are very common. In Alchemquest, taking the action described in Archipelago is nigh useless, because taking pot shots behind cover is simply not how that incarnation works.

[valadil]

I tend towards cool if it's in character. Some of my characters would pole vault over the fire, others wouldn't even think of it. I guess I try to think of how cool the character thinks it is and use that instead of my own opinion.

[Conners]

I'm of the opinion that rationality should be present--but well-done "cool" moments should also be allowed.

Example: Someone is playing a clumsy, comic-relief character. When they are being confronted by the BBEG, the comic-relief character steps forward, trips, then tumbles right into the BBEG, as their RP.
Now, should you say, "the guards surround and kill you, the end" to that player...? I'd find that terrible discouragement towards RPing. You will be shaping your players into munchkins who only do what makes them win!

What I feel you should do, is give a plausible but not necessarily bad response. In the given situation, it might work out to let the Comic-Relief character tumble onto your BBEG, then hold him hostage. But if it doesn't... have the BBEG and his guards side-step just in time to dodge the living projectile. The BBEG can find them so pitiful that they ignore them, for now. Then, you could continue the fight planned as before, except the comic character is in a different position.

Of course, if someone just says, "I jump into the pit of spikes, because I can take it... I have a lot of HP" that is NOT RPing.... Let them have the full, brutal reality of what they just did.


EDIT: Come to think of it, this was about what a Player should do... really depends on your GM. If he goes with my mentality as above, then I suggest doing cool RPing type things when a good chance presents itself. If they're very grim... I wouldn't suggest it, for love of your characters.