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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Having Trouble with a Build

    I created a thread about a monk, not long ago, and I wanted to get some opinions about how I should go about building this character I have an idea of.

    What I'm trying to build is a character with the personality of Sun Wukong with the fighting style of Jackie Chan. I've looked through several monk archetypes and had help here and there, but I can't help feeling like something is missing.

    I'm curious if I could make such a build with a Brawler. A build that takes advantage of the environment, using Tripping, Grappling, and Dirty Tricks to gain control and take advantage of the situation.

    My race is decided and it's going to be Vanaras, and my stat rolls are as follows, with racial adjustments to Dex, Wis, and Cha.

    Str 18, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 17, Cha 9

    My question is, what would you guys recommend, feat and archetype wise?
    Last edited by 5w337x7007h; 2015-04-16 at 12:36 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    You have god stats, do whatever.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    knew a guy who wanted to be Sun WuKong as well... he ended up going Eldritch Guardian Fighter using a quarterstaff & the TWF chain - while making his familiar a monkey with the Mauler Archetype.
    He bought a dire collar for the familiar - and every now and again, the monkey would go into battle form and trgger the dire collar all in one fell swoop - going from tiny size to large size almost instantly. The guy played a Monkey Headed Rakshasa...

    It was a fun and amusing character...


    if i were building it however, i would probably want to go Dirty Trick specialist, either through Fighter Lore Warden, or through Orc Racial Dirty Fighter archetype. Then use a hat of disguise or greater hat of disguise to appear venaran...
    [CLEVER SIGNATURE] Insert Here [/CLEVER SIGNATURE]

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Hey! It's Secret Wizard, writer of Wombo Combo!

    Glad to see you here, but seriously I'm not sure where to start. I know that I need to have Combat Expertise to get Improved Trip and Improved Dirty Trick.

    Oh wow.. Looking at it all, I'd have Greater Trip, Greater Grapple, and Greater Dirty Trick by 8th level. Plus whatever else I qualify for through Martial Flexibility. Get Quick Dirty Trick and Dirty Trick Master, and keep building from there

    I don't want to look Vanaran, I want to be Vanaran. Nothing says "FEAR ME" like an Drunken Monkey that can punch a hole through the ship's hull. Oh! I want to mention that I'm going to be in the Skulls & Shackles Campaign with this character.

    Would it be a Ride or Acrobatics check to land on an enemy, from above, and pummel on em' without losing balance? Like literal monkey on you, beating you up while you run around trying to get him off.
    Last edited by 5w337x7007h; 2015-04-16 at 01:46 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 5w337x7007h View Post
    Hey! It's Secret Wizard, writer of Wombo Combo!

    Glad to see you here, but seriously I'm not sure where to start. I know that I need to have Combat Expertise to get Improved Trip and Improved Dirty Trick.

    Oh wow.. Looking at it all, I'd have Greater Trip, Greater Grapple, and Greater Dirty Trick by 8th level. Plus whatever else I qualify for through Martial Flexibility. Get Quick Dirty Trick and Dirty Trick Master, and keep building from there

    I don't want to look Vanaran, I want to be Vanaran. Nothing says "FEAR ME" like an Drunken Monkey that can punch a hole through the ship's hull. Oh! I want to mention that I'm going to be in the Skulls & Shackles Campaign with this character.

    Would it be a Ride or Acrobatics check to land on an enemy, from above, and pummel on em' without losing balance?
    You can skip the prerequisite combat expertise if you dip brawler, which will also net you Martial Flexibility and an improved unarmed strike damage for your martial artsy goodness. From there, you should go into Lorewarden & Martial Master fighter, the two archetypes stack and give you more Martial Flexibility (which should also stack with your Martial Flexibility from Brawler, but check with your DM) and the best CMB/CMD bonuses you can get in the game. Grab yourself the Dirty Trick combat maneuver stuff and whatever quarterstaff feats you can get away with.

    I'd recommend Brawler 2/LW-MM Fighter 18 if you want to stick to mundane. You'll have a surprising amount of flexibility in your combat style, a slightly boosted Reflex Save, Full BAB and D10 hit die. Should work out pretty good.

    Now if you go 3rd party stuff, you can get some real fun...

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    You can skip the prerequisite combat expertise if you dip brawler, which will also net you Martial Flexibility and an improved unarmed strike damage for your martial artsy goodness. From there, you should go into Lorewarden & Martial Master fighter, the two archetypes stack and give you more Martial Flexibility (which should also stack with your Martial Flexibility from Brawler, but check with your DM) and the best CMB/CMD bonuses you can get in the game. Grab yourself the Dirty Trick combat maneuver stuff and whatever quarterstaff feats you can get away with.

    I'd recommend Brawler 2/LW-MM Fighter 18 if you want to stick to mundane. You'll have a surprising amount of flexibility in your combat style, a slightly boosted Reflex Save, Full BAB and D10 hit die. Should work out pretty good.

    Now if you go 3rd party stuff, you can get some real fun...
    You don't get Combat Expertise with Brawler, you're just treated as having 13 int, even if you don't. You do get Combat Expertise at 2nd level with Lore Warden. Also, I'd much prefer to just stick to a single class as of this moment until I've taken the time to learn it, that and this character is mainly for the fun of it.
    Last edited by 5w337x7007h; 2015-04-16 at 02:04 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 5w337x7007h View Post
    You don't get Combat Expertise with Brawler, you're just treated as having 13 int, even if you don't. You do get Combat Expertise as a bonus feat with Lore Warden.
    The point is that you can ignore stupid prerequisites that don't make any sense. The combo should make things pretty easy for you to get what you need.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    The point is that you can ignore stupid prerequisites that don't make any sense. The combo should make things pretty easy for you to get what you need.
    It's already easy, I'll have the three improved feats that I want by 5th level, and the greater versions by 8th. I'm not too worried about my situation, and I'm weird in that I don't like multi-classing.

    I want my combat style to reflect Jackie Chan's style in his movies. Pretty much controlling the fight with martial arts and improvisation.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 5w337x7007h View Post
    It's already easy, I'll have the three improved feats that I want by 5th level, and the greater versions by 8th. I'm not too worried about my situation, and I'm weird in that I don't like multi-classing.

    I want my combat style to reflect Jackie Chan's style in his movies. Pretty much controlling the fight with martial arts and improvisation.
    You'll want catch off-guard then, and any extra combat maneuver feats you can grab.

    If you were using 3rd party materials I'd tell you to find your way over to the Path of War: Expanded playtest for the Broken Blade Style Feats. The one you want is Broken Blade Rhythm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Broken Blade Rhythm
    Broken Blade Rhythm [Combat]
    Every blow from your fist builds on the last
    Prerequisites: Broken Blade Crush, Acrobatics 11 ranks
    Benefit: Once per round when you succeed on an attack roll as part of a Broken Blade strike, you can make a free combat maneuver attempt against one opponent in melee range.
    You'll note that the CMB check doesn't have to be against the target of your attack, meaning you can spread your Combat maneuvers around like Jackie Chan does.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 5w337x7007h View Post
    If I was using 3rd Party material, I'd be using my Ultimate Psionics book. My GM would prefer I not break my character too hard, so I'll ask him about the Combat Expertise thing, see if he'll be fine with treating Brawlers Cunning as granting Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, as well as treating the brawler as having int 13 even if it's less.
    Well if you do Brawler and Lorewarden fighter it won't really be an issue. You can stagger your levels Fighter 1/Brawler 2/Fighter X so that you get Combat Expertise as a bonus feat and you can ignore the int prereqs, although Lorewardens do get some benefit from a positive INT modifier.

    What you really need to ask your DM about is if Martial Master Fighter stacks with Brawler for Martial Flexibility. The abilities are named the same, so by RAW they should, but the fighter's comes online at a later level such that you should probably get the clearance from your DM. If they stack it'll be a big boon, since you'll get more and better uses of Martial Flexibility for lots of free combat maneuver (and other) feats.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Again, I'm not looking to multi-class. I'm just trying to get a simple build working. I've never played with this class before and I'd enjoy learning how it works before I go and mix something else into it.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 5w337x7007h View Post
    Again, I'm not looking to multi-class. I'm just trying to get a simple build working. I've never played with this class before and I'd enjoy learning how it works before I go and mix something else into it.
    If you don't want to multiclass, I recommend Lorewarden Martial Master fighter over Brawler then. You need the Lorewarden's scaling CMB bonus if you want any real chance of using your combat maneuvers successfully. Even then, only barely.

    I suggested the dip because it gets you a lot to play with and ultimately costs you nothing.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    I'm kinda mixed about everything right now. I feel like I could go Tetori Monk, and gain the grabbing Style feats, utilizing control that way, maybe? I could do the same thing with the Brawler and keep flurry, but lose out on a natural ability to suppress abilities that would otherwise be used to get out of a grapple.

    How about this build idea. Grappling build to Neckbreaker, along with Grabbing Style and Vital Strike chains?
    Last edited by 5w337x7007h; 2015-04-17 at 11:36 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    1. Remember you can still full-attack while grappling. As a full-bab class, you probably want to do that.

    2. Tetori is based around disabling, Strangler (Brawler) is based around quick take downs. Pick whichever suits your style bets. Tetori probably enjoys Grabbing Style, Strangler perhaps Kraken Style for the extra damage.

  15. - Top - End - #15
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Wizard View Post
    1. Remember you can still full-attack while grappling. As a full-bab class, you probably want to do that.

    2. Tetori is based around disabling, Strangler (Brawler) is based around quick take downs. Pick whichever suits your style bets. Tetori probably enjoys Grabbing Style, Strangler perhaps Kraken Style for the extra damage.
    With the Tetori Monk, I'd have to wait until 8th level before I can start Grabbing Style, because Graceful Grappler replaces Flurry of Blows, which sucks, but I guess I can deal with it.

    Lets say we start with Tetori Monk class, I've got to make it at lvl 3 to start with.

    1 Improved Grapple
    2 Stunning Pin
    3 Combat Reflexes

    5 Kraken Style
    6 Greater Grapple
    7 Kraken Throttle
    9 Grabbing Style
    10 Pinning Knockout
    11 Combat Style Master
    13 Grabbing Drag
    14 Chokehold
    15 Grabbing Master
    17 Kraken Wrack
    18 Neckbreaker
    19 Pinning Rend

    How's that look?

    Considering my stats were rolled as well, which looks more feasible?

    Str 18, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 17, Cha 9

    Str 16, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 20, Cha 9

    I get a bunch of bonuses with my Wis, so there's that to look at too.
    Last edited by 5w337x7007h; 2015-04-17 at 01:38 PM.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Quote Originally Posted by 5w337x7007h View Post
    Considering my stats were rolled as well, which looks more feasible?

    Str 18, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 17, Cha 9

    Str 16, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 20, Cha 9

    I get a bunch of bonuses with my Wis, so there's that to look at too.
    As others, have already said, you can easily make a go at just about anything you want. With your second stat array, you could be a god-tier cleric or druid or even an Empyreal Sorceror.

    With either, you could be a damn good Monk, or Warpriest (especially Sacred Fist).

    If you want to get the most out of your stats, I'd recommend Warpriest, but you have a stat roll that is capable of making a Monk function.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Fortunately, a Monk 1/Warblade 19 uses Iron Heart Surge to end the Monk character class, and the day is saved.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Having Trouble with a Build

    Well the stat rolls aren't set in stone, but I made these rolls "18, 16, 15, 15, 15, 11" so I could do well in any character, really. But I wanted to play a Monkey Monk, so that's what I'm doing. I was just looking for advice on feats. I got a plethora of other advice as the thread went on and it really helped me think everything through. It lead to me deciding on a Tetori Monk.

    That said, I'm going to use the first stat array, and put my first point, at 4th level, into Wis for that benefit. Now all I need to do is work on my gear that I'll be looking for, or buying, as I go.

    Now, those feats lined up in my last post. Do they look reasonable, or is there some adjusting I should do?
    Last edited by 5w337x7007h; 2015-04-17 at 03:14 PM.

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