I need advice for a secret society.

[Notreallyhere77]

I have decided that one of the PCs in my new campaign will be a member of a secret society that periodically sends her on missions that relate, or at least do not interfere, with her adventuring. Unfortunately, I fell in love witht he concept before deciding what this secret society wants to do.
In case it matters, the system I'm using is Pathfinder.

I have a name for this secret society, but on the off chance that my players start reading this forum, I will refer to this secret society as "Group A." How "Group A" works is figured out. There's a few guys in charge, with about 12-15 tiers in the pecking order, and few know the identity of their superior. They are geographically widespread, but most of them are contained on one continent. They number in the hundreds, at least. They are mystical, but not necessarily religious in nature, and recruit from mostly humans, but only because this is the dominant race in the area. Elves, half-elves, and other humanoids are not unheard of.

Now, it is not yet canon, but I want them to have a rivalry with "Group B," which does have a strong religious affiliation, but I haven't decided which god yet. The gods in my world include several tight pantheons, a few loose deities, and some strong animist overtones, but if you come up with something generic, like a title ("the god of astrology" or something), I'm sure I can find the right god for them to follow.

So, what I need help with the most is what goals these two secret societies share, which ones they don't share, and why they would oppose each other rather than pooling together.
Also, Group A keeps its existence hidden from the public, but group B doesn't have to.

All of your ideas are welcome and appreciated!

[DontEatRawHagis]

Possibility:

Intellectuals versus Religion - Classic struggle, intellectuals will try and find out as much as possible/spy in order to bring the truth to as many people as possible. Missions revolve around stealing information, proof is needed, anything else is just hearsay. There is a belief among them that the religion is up to no good, information concerning the relgious group fetches a higher price than normal. Sometimes they send their members to discover key pieces of information, or artifacts.

Underworld Versus religion - The criminal secret society is being persecuted by the Religion mainly due to the black market that the society runs. Missions usually involve calling in favors and delivering items to clients. Everything is useful to the organization; any conversation that could be used against someone is gold in their opinion.

Thieves Guild Verus Religion - The animosity between the two groups is due to the leader of the society stealing a prized artifact from the religion. Though this artifact is not in possession of the society. Most missions are standard thieves guild fare, though throw in a few missions involving running away or stealing from the Religion. Maybe they require you to sneakily leave a message in the cathedral of the religion.

[Mastikator]

There are a lot of groups that IRL that have very similar goals and methods but are enemies for extremely dumb reasons.
The difference between group A and B could be a very old feud or something that seems silly to everyone else but is deadly serious to those in A and B. People are petty, irrational and stubborn on a daily basis, even the best, don't be afraid to use that as a motive for conflict.

Or they could have goals, beliefs and methods that are contrary and mutually exclusive, and regularly kill each other.

--

Edit-
You can also draw from reality.
Maybe group B is the state lead by a king. And group A is an underground revolutionary movement that seeks to underthrow the king and establish democracy, and any open expression against the king or the throne is considered high treason, the movement is not popular because in order to achieve their goals they have to commit questionable acts making them look like terrorists to the public so they have to keep their organization secret.

Or maybe the other way around!

There is democracy, but the people have elected a charming and evil man who lies to the public and secretly undermines democracy, and a tiny group of elite intellectuals realize that the only way to save the public from tyranny is to institute a constitutional monarchy with an inherently good and fair angelic being as monarch.

[Katana_Geldar]

There is no such thing as secret societies, citizen!

*shakes Notreallyhere77's hand three times and squeezes it twice, leaves thread*

[Feriority]

Have you decided which PC is in the secret society, and if you have, can you describe them? That could help shape the society, or at least what the society wants from the PC.

[Notreallyhere77]

Thanks guys! Keep 'em coming!

First, the answer to Feriority's question. The PC is a female human wizard, specializing in enchantment, and she plans to take levels in mindbender (not PF, I know, but I'm open to conversion). She used to be a slave halfway across the world, but a member of Group A saw potential in her as a spy, and bought her freedom, trained her in the enchantment school, and sent her to the continent she's on now to work with the larger force of Group A. She wants power, and to never be someone else's slave again.

Neither group should be affiliated with the state, and Group B must be decidedly sinister. Group A wants information and is trying to put its own people in positions of power, but I haven't figured out to what end.
Group B is trying to put their people into power to promote their religion, most likely.
Group A needs more of a reason to exist than just opposing Group B.

And yes, the two groups are spying on each other and trying to infiltrate the opposing ranks to learn more while rooting out infiltrators in their own ranks.

[Feriority]

Group A, with its cadre of brilliant enchanters, has been manipulating various states for quite some time... usually subtly, manipulating influential people and intellectual fashion rather than directly trying to control those with the most power. But now, Group B's religion's influence has grown far faster than Group A expected, and any means of countering that would have forced them to act too overtly and reveal their presence. Now, with a converted ruler of some powerful state, or shortly after a coup influenced by Group B's religions movement (maybe orchestrated by Group B, maybe just followers of their religion seeking power and inspired by the religion, but either way breaking away from Group A's plans), Group A is scrambling to regain its degree of control over the nobility/rulers without revealing its presence or hand in affairs. Group B has worked out that Group A exists, but doesn't have enough information to just reveal Group A's presence, and at any rate would have problems going up against a group with enough skilled enchanters to turn opinions and thoughts against them once forced to act openly.

That might come a little too close to the groups being affiliated with the state, even if both are more puppetting the state than directly running it, and it doesn't have a clear motivation or goal that A is manipulating the state towards, but it does at least provide a conflict that isn't just A being against B's religion itself.

[Jallorn]

Group A is a collection of some of the smartest people in the world, many wizards and such, who strive towards utopia, for the benefit of all (of course, they know true utopia is unreachable, but they strive for it nonetheless). Their current checkpoint? Unity. World peace under their influence.

Similarly, Group B seeks to unite the world under their religion. They disavow any other religions, and, though not strictly evil, are extremely dogmatic and holier-than-thou. Group A sees Group B as hopelessly misguided, while Group B sees Group A as a bunch of power hungry, blasphemous heathens.

[Nigel the Hobo]

Group B believes in slavery, and this is supported by their God. This gives the PC a personal reason to be against the other society and makes them sinister by most everyone's standards, except maybe the common populace. Group A could be underground railroad-esqe maybe? But I feel that adding slavery to group B would be an excellent way to cause a personal hatred from the player.

[Notreallyhere77]

Good work so far! Thanks in particular to Feriority.

I suppose I lose nothing by referring to the groups by the names I'm using in-game, since none of my players read these forums, and if they did, only one of them knows that her character is part of the secret society.
Maybe the names will inspire you.

Group A is called the Velvet Gloves.
Group B is called The Dominion.

Now, thanks to your suggestions, and some brainstorming of my own, I've gotten some details figured out (note: these are subject to change if you guys come up with something better).
I've decided that The Dominion sometimes operates openly (like in the woods, not in a busy town square, but they don't always hide in a basement), but under identity-concealing hoods, masks, or illusions. Think of the KKK, but only in costume. And of course, they don't reveal their true agenda, they just show up in costume, do their thing, and leave. They revere the god of undeath (who, incidentally, is hated by the god of death, and most of the other gods, too), and want leaders who will stay in the position indefinitely, are immune to enchantments and/or bribery, can prevent historical mistakes from repeating themselves ("remember how poorly that 'kill the dwarves' idea went last time?"), and can work on social solutions 24/7 (unless they need to prepare spells). The end result, though, is that the living will all probably end up as servants or food for their new undead masters.
Note that most of the Dominion members are still living.

The Velvet Gloves have been around for longer, and have watched The Dominion grow, though they can't pinpoint exactly when The Dominion was founded. That doesn't matter, though, since what's done is done and The Dominion has already put two vampires in office, and a well-disguised ghoul in the King's court, prompting the Velvet Gloves to act against them.

The question is, what were the Velvet Gloves doing before The Dominion showed up? Because presumably they're still trying to accomplish this goal.
I like the idea of trying to unite the world under intellectualism, but I also like the idea of them being in it for raw power.

[DontEatRawHagis]

The question is, what were the Velvet Gloves doing before The Dominion showed up? Because presumably they're still trying to accomplish this goal.
I like the idea of trying to unite the world under intellectualism, but I also like the idea of them being in it for raw power.

Part of me keeps thinking of the "veiled alliance" from Dark Sun, persecuted wizards that hide from the populous, secretly coveting magical artifacts.

Maybe the Velvet Gloves have an agenda of "For the Greater good". They try to put the right man in the right place. So say back in the good old days there was a major stalemate between two neighboring kingdoms that made it so other kingdoms could not prosper(One blocks the trade routes of the other something of the sort or places huge taxes on goods from that kingdom, whatever). So for the sake of the many the Velvet Gloves infiltrate both kingdoms. Then slowly use misinformation to start war between the two in order for the many to be saved.

Most secret organizations have something about the greater good in their motto. The Freemasons for example "Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth" as their motto. Since she is leveling up Mind Bender, I would think that this society might be based around Psionic power(not sure if I'm right, but hey I'm going to continue). Maybe the world sees the psionic power source as something to fear, maybe because they can go into people's minds.

They secretly erase and alter people's minds to increase their own agenda. The complete control of the kingdoms. More importantly the ability to mine crystals imbued with Psionic energy in order to use them to do something. My take, maybe use the power in these crystals to make them immortal. If you know anything about Shardminds, this is the type of background I give them in my campaign.

[Notreallyhere77]

Er, I know nothing of shardminds. I'll have to look that up. That said, not a whole lot of psionic stuff going on in the campaign world ATM.

I think it would work just as well to have The Dominion trying to put dragons back into power, instead of undead. Honestly, both would work, as the BBEG is a dracolich.
Perhaps the Velvet Gloves just want to get filthy rich by controlling the world economy. Sure, they have noble pretexts about making international trade easier, preventing wars, and maybe raising the quality of life for the middle classes, but really, the guys at the top just want to live like kings without the risks inherent to kingship.

Or maybe they're like the Keepers from the Thief game series, and just want to observe and record undetected, trying to keep the balance and maintain the status quo without anyone noticing.

Or maybe both?

Y'know, I think I'll keep this thread going a little longer, just to see what else you guys come up with. Very inspiring so far!

[THEChanger]

You could have both. All of the Velvet Gloves don't necessarily need to be aligned to a common goal. There could always be several factions within both organizations, some devoted to pure power, others who truly believe what they are doing is the right thing. Our Wizard player could very well be recruited by organizations within the organization. Or even deeper.
Going into specifics, with a name like the Velvet Gloves, I would put some tailor themes in there. Perhaps clothing shops are the fronts for their meeting halls, with members identified through discussion of various cloth-stitching techniques, with very specific slip-ups. Maybe the player should take some ranks in Craft (Clothing) or Profession (Tailor). Just some thoughts.

[Jallorn]

You could have both. All of the Velvet Gloves don't necessarily need to be aligned to a common goal. There could always be several factions within both organizations, some devoted to pure power, others who truly believe what they are doing is the right thing. Our Wizard player could very well be recruited by organizations within the organization. Or even deeper.
Going into specifics, with a name like the Velvet Gloves, I would put some tailor themes in there. Perhaps clothing shops are the fronts for their meeting halls, with members identified through discussion of various cloth-stitching techniques, with very specific slip-ups. Maybe the player should take some ranks in Craft (Clothing) or Profession (Tailor). Just some thoughts.

If you have that kind of theme, then you simply must have a character like Garrick, from DS9.

[Notreallyhere77]

If you have that kind of theme, then you simply must have a character like Garrick, from DS9.

Well, I don't watch that show, but from what I can tell from the wikipedia entry, Garak's already at odds with The Dominion...
Well, a Dominion, at any rate.

The Velvet Gloves was supposed to be more of a referrence to how they like to handle things gently, but I can put an inordinate amount of tailors among their ranks...

[Jallorn]

Garak is a Cardassian spy (a rather bad-ass one) who is kind of retired and works as a tailor on DS9.

[Feriority]

Not so much actually all being tailors, but maybe their covers (secret society needs good fronts, after all) tend to be tailors, hatters, and the like?

[Notreallyhere77]

Not so much actually all being tailors, but maybe their covers (secret society needs good fronts, after all) tend to be tailors, hatters, and the like?

Don't forget hot dog vendors, waiters, and the homeless. For whatever reason, they just don't show up on anyone's radar as a threat.
They're just there.

I once had a leader of a local assassin guild pose as a beggar during the day. They saw him in an alley, figured he was there for flavor/decoration (or a bronze dragon in disguise), and one PC gave him a couple gp. When the PC recognized him later (he killed one of the city guard right in front of them), the whole party applauded my cleverness and let him get away. To be fair, though, they were about to be arrested by said guard...

[Mando Knight]

Group A is a collection of some of the smartest people in the world,

And, obviously, thus as omniscient as they are vague.

Also, don't worry if you don't know anything about Shardminds. They were made up by WotC for 4e's PHB3, near as I can tell, so if you don't need people made by psionically-arranged crystals, don't worry.

[Thrawn183]

A group of old women, sorceresses/witches possibly, that send he on quests to pick up garments from around the world. They call themselves the "Sisterhood of the Travelling Pantaloons.