So my players have a stingy healer.

[Ursus the Grim]

Hey, Jake. You let it slip last night that you frequent the GitP forums, so if you are reading this, yeah, its about you. More specifically, its about you being confronted about how to heal by a certain player and how to diffuse the situation if it comes up again. Sorry brah.

The rest of you. In the current campaign I'm running, the cleric (built around a healing PrC, no less) doesn't like to cast healing spells after encounters because he has a fast healing aura. A few times now, another player has asked him for a heal spell, to which he replies

"Just stand within 10 feet of me for a while, you'll be good."
"You've got like a million healing spells, why can't you cast one?"
"I'm an efficient healer."

He is referring to the Fast Healing 2 that his aura provides. Now, I haven't said anything in character because I'm the DM, but its annoying the players greatly. Considering the current campaign began with a CR 21 fiend planeshifting in at the end of a fight, everyone is a little worried that I won't give them enough time to heal up.

I think it was going to take approximately 3 minutes after the last run for the weakened party member to get patched up. It came to a head when the two players nearly argued over it (and it was becoming an OOC argument too).

The kicker is, at this point, the Cleric is playing a blaster but half his spells are failing due to SR. So he really wouldn't lose much by throwing a Heal or Cure spell their way, especially because the Sorcerer's Effigy and the Seeker of the Song are greatly outpacing him on damage.

The obvious solution would be to throw a second, immediate encounter at them, but if the issue is as dire of the Seeker expects, we'll have a more dramatic argument because of the "stupid" cleric. They're also in a pretty sparse area right now, and will soon travel to an even more desolate, lonely location, so a random encounter (aside from being a huge time sink) would just be unlikely. But if they're not endangered, he'll have no reason to change his ways.

Any suggestions for how I can bring this up out of character without making the player feel offended that I'm telling him how to play, or on giving the cleric a bit of a kick in the pants, would be appreciated. Telling the bard/seeker to relax won't work because we feud enough as it is and I "always take" the cleric's side.

[Talya]

He's generally right about being efficient with spells. If he has an easy source of free hit point healing, he's silly to waste spells on doing so.

However, it sounds like he's not being particularly effective anyway, so...

[Coidzor]

Well, there is a little thing known as time skips. ...& properly setting player expectations.

& another little thing known as wanting to play a character rather than a box of band-aids.

You wanna encourage him to start using healing spells out of combat? Wand or two of lesser vigor/CLW.

The obvious solution would be to throw a second, immediate encounter at them, but if the issue is as dire of the Seeker expects, we'll have a more dramatic argument because of the "stupid" cleric. They're also in a pretty sparse area right now, and will soon travel to an even more desolate, lonely location, so a random encounter (aside from being a huge time sink) would just be unlikely. But if they're not endangered, he'll have no reason to change his ways.

No, that would just make the rest of the party more stressed out. The only reason they care is either because you drag out the time they spend after a fight (or they're being dumb about it rather than letting the time pass) or because of that CR 21 encounter you dumped on them has made them paranoid that you're going to start doing this regularly because you dislike the healing aura.

Of course he wouldn't have a reason to change his ways if they're not endangered. Why is the group so impatient that you all can't say a couple minutes pass? Because it just takes longer when you all argue about it.

Edit: And punishing another player by killing his character in order to force another player to start playing his character differently is something that would not be looked favorably upon if the group make the mental connection of what happened.

Doesn't seem to work very well either, as it just makes the healer more defensive.

[Talya]

Of course he wouldn't have a reason to change his ways if they're not endangered. Why is the group so impatient that you all can't say a couple minutes pass? Because it just takes longer when you all argue about it.

Yeah. I don't know what this "healing aura" does specifically, but if it heals X hit points per round or something, that pretty much means the DM should be simply telling everyone to raise all their hit points to maximum immediately after every fight. It's not something you would track out of combat.

[Typewriter]

If a fellow player started trying to tell me what spells to cast and when I'd probably stop healing them altogether.

He's healing them as he sees fit, if the other player has a problem with that he can take care of himself.

Now, if this starts to cause legitimate problems (people getting killed because a new encounter starts before he finished healing with his aura) that's one thing, but until that starts happening often enough to be a problem....

EDIT:

In short he's doing nothing wrong, but people are complaining to him in and out of character, and you're talking about finding ways to change his play style even though he's doing nothing wrong and there's no downside.

[GodGoblin]

I agree that he isnt doing anything wrong, three minutes is 30 rounds so to your players it may seem a long time but its really just 180 seconds! That is no time at all reakky and burning a spell when you could do that seems pointless to me.

I would complain if my cleric had a healing aura but kept using his spell slots 'Just in case'.

[Sir Swindle89]

I would complain if my cleric had a healing aura but kept using his spell slots 'Just in case'.

this

I geuss it might be a bigger issue with lvl21 HP but still they could either wait 5mins (the standard after combat rest in 4th i might point out) or not get brought back from the brink of death with a dragon bearing down on them.

[GodGoblin]

Also something people forget when playing D&D is that you have just had a fight to the death and been probably been stabbed multiple times! If YOU were in that situation you would want a sit down for a lot longer than 5 minutes before wandering off into another cave.

[erikun]

So, the problem is that your party cleric is not acting as the walking band-aid kit. Furthermore, in a land full of few encounters and even less scenery, he isn't spending his spell slots to recover HP because he has an automatic healing aura that puts everyone back up to full before the next encounter starts anyways. Does that sound about right?

I tend towards playing clerics, so I know that people will demand healing from you when you play one. I also know how annoying it is to exspend 20 levels of class features on keeping people alive who insist on jumping off cliffs, swimming through acid, and fighting hill giants nude because "the cleric can just heal it off". (I wish I was joking.) This would be doubly frustrating if the player characters would naturally heal off that damage anyways, but they insist I spend my limited daily resources so that they can do it again two minutes sooner.

Also, I think you might be misinterpreting the player's build. When they took a prestige class to become a better healer, they didn't do so to heal more. They apparently did so to provide the same healing with less resources, so that they could do more other things besides healing.


Now, that doesn't mean such a playstyle isn't without problems. I would hope that they player is willing to spend a Heal spell or two if another fight jumps up immediately afterwards. And if the party is trying to move from one fight to another quickly - say, to preserve buffs with short durations - then spending spell slots rather than waiting makes sense. On the other hand, this is a "pretty sparse, desolate, lonely location" so I doubt they are travelling from room to room to preserve those rounds/level durations.

Also, why isn't the Seeker of the Song spending his spell slots healing? Bards are just as good of healers as Clerics. Or does nobody complain that the Bard isn't spending all his low-level spell slots on patching people up?

[Khatoblepas]

The Cleric is doing the right thing.

The characters can just heal up, read a book, sharpen their swords, pray to their god or tune their guitars while they heal. It could take as much as three seconds for some downtime or they could use the time to go over their plans. Actively using spells instead actually wastes more real-world time than saying "We set up camp".

Burning out the cleric on healing spells is a really bad idea. Where are those Mass Heals the Cleric uses on the downtime when the party really needs it? Best save your resources for when you REALLY, REALLY need it.

I don't think it's the cleric that needs to change his playstyle... it's the other players.

[Seerow]

Agreeing with the majority here, the problem isn't your cleric, it's you. When you get to the point that you are considering throwing not 2, but 3 encounters back to back without even 3 minutes of rest just to encourage the cleric to play a healbot like you want him to rather than playing how he wants, you have a major problem, not him.

[Typewriter]

I don't think it's the cleric that needs to change his playstyle... it's the other players.

Trying to tell a fellow player how to play his character when he's not negatively affecting the game isn't a playstyle issue, it's just an issue.

/nitpick

[tyckspoon]

I'm gonna have to join with everybody else on this one, and suggest you try looking at it from the player's perspective. He clearly doesn't think he's playing 'the healer'. He's a combat cleric, and he's already made a pretty big concession to the party in investing resources to have his healing aura and have rapid powerful healing available when needed instead of picking his feats and prestige class for 'I blow up everything forever', which he very easily could (and if he had, you'd probably have that sorcerer and Seeker of the Song complaining to you about the Cleric's damage output instead.)

[Magesmiley]

I think that the player with the cleric is doing the smart thing here. A lot of players don't really appreciate the value of a healer that intelligently manages their resources.

If the other players don't like the way the player is handing out his spells and assets, they can always:

A) Play a character that can heal themselves (small chance of that) or

B) spring (out of their own characters' pocket) for items for the cleric to use to heal them when they think that they need healing.

[Seb Wiers]

Not a 3.5 player, but I'm assuming they don't just give out "fast healing aura" for free to anybody. The whole point of making the investment needed to get that power would precisely be so that you don't need to use healing spells.

As for the blasty spells failing- why not buffing spells instead? Preventing damage via tank spells and dishing it out via buffs does more to keep the party safe than healing spells.

[HappyBlanket]

So, now that the horse of what the Cleric should do has been brutally beaten to death, you still have to deal with your other players. I'll spare you another flurry of critiques, but if I'm taking your description to be accurate, then everyone at your table except Jake is against his play style. Letting Jake continue, and letting the current frequency of encounters continue, is (though fair and appropriate) not going to stop the arguments between your players.

I mean, don't get me wrong; the Cleric's play style isn't an issue at all. It's fine. It's just the table dynamic you need to worry about.

...Course, telling the Cleric what to do seems so much simpler than telling everyone else what to do. But I'm not a diplomancer, so I can't help you with that. And you should probably side with Jake here anyway.

[Asheram]

I agree with the earlier statements and the only thing I have to say is: "Do they want nine hours of downtime or three minutes?"

[Toliudar]

Since you're clearly willing to suggest alternative spell use to a player, and the cleric's player seems to like blasting, may I suggest Cometfall from Spell Compendium. Extremely blasty, and no SR.

Or, as mentioned before, there's a variety of excellent buffs he could be focusing on instead.

[Eric Tolle]

The party leader needs to call the cleric into his office, sit him down, and in a non-confrontational manner ask him how he sees his role in the party, what he considers to be the expectations are of his job, and where he sees his career as a cleric going. Then the party leader can bring up the issues the other party members have noted, and approach the situation in a coaching manner, not a confrontational one.

1. Describe the Cleric's specific performance issues

* Talk about the issues, not about the Cleric's poor effort.
* Describe the results of the Cleric's performance.

2. Describe the expected standards of Adventurer performance

Be specific. Don't say you have a "poor" attitude; instead list specific occurrences that illustrate problematic behavior.

3. Determine the cause of the performance issues

* Does the Cleric lack training, skills, knowledge?
* Is there a lack of motivation, incentive?
* Are there external factors involved (family, financial, etc.)?
* Are there factors beyond the Cleric's control affecting the performance?

4. Ask the Cleric for solution(s)

What could the Cleric do to improve this situation?

5. Discuss each solution with the Cleric

* How will this solution help with the Cleric's problem?
* Discuss your solution(s).
* Try to jointly improve upon the solutions.

6. Agree on specific actions to be done and a time frame to implement them

Arrange for another meeting in the future to track the progress/results of the solution.

[Shadowknight12]

I would talk to the cleric to find out what he wants out of the game and find a way to make it happen. If he wants to blast, perhaps I can work out a better set of spells for him, or I can make him find an item that gives him a large bonus to overcome SR.

That's the long, but ultimately more satisfying route. The bandaid approach is to throw lots of undead at them (with sky-high energy resistances and DR) and let him use his cure spells as blasting spells (that are unaffected by energy resistance, DR and all that). It won't be a long-term solution, but it can be a good temporary patch.

[Valameer]

If your group really has a problem with the cleric not sucking it up like a ***** and becoming a dedicated healer, then why doesn't one of them reroll into a walking band-aid kit?

Let someone else do the healing if they think it's insufficient.

Clerics are so much more than just healers. People who play as clerics shouldn't automatically be assigned to band-aid duty.

You've asked him to heal, and he's given you his response. Obviously he has no intentions of being the main in-combat healer (which is very inefficient anyway.)

EDIT: Woaah! Assuming 3e that is. If you're playing Basic, 1e, 2e or 4e, then he better start cracking out those heals.

[Sewercop]

The party leader needs to call the cleric into his office, sit him down, and in a non-confrontational manner ask him how he sees his role in the party, what he considers to be the expectations are of his job, and where he sees his career as a cleric going. Then the party leader can bring up the issues the other party members have noted, and approach the situation in a coaching manner, not a confrontational one.

1. Describe the Cleric's specific performance issues

* Talk about the issues, not about the Cleric's poor effort.
* Describe the results of the Cleric's performance.

2. Describe the expected standards of Adventurer performance

Be specific. Don't say you have a "poor" attitude; instead list specific occurrences that illustrate problematic behavior.

3. Determine the cause of the performance issues

* Does the Cleric lack training, skills, knowledge?
* Is there a lack of motivation, incentive?
* Are there external factors involved (family, financial, etc.)?
* Are there factors beyond the Cleric's control affecting the performance?

4. Ask the Cleric for solution(s)

What could the Cleric do to improve this situation?

5. Discuss each solution with the Cleric

* How will this solution help with the Cleric's problem?
* Discuss your solution(s).
* Try to jointly improve upon the solutions.

6. Agree on specific actions to be done and a time frame to implement them

Arrange for another meeting in the future to track the progress/results of the solution.

Really? you should switch places with that player. \sigh

I would just tell them how resource managment works. After my insane good patience of 5mins had gone by to allow them to comprehend, i would have asked if they wanted healing or not. If yes, it would be healing my way.

[Urpriest]

Hmm...this Jake...isn't Doc Roc, is it?

[Freylorn]

If your group really has a problem with the cleric not sucking it up like a ***** and becoming a dedicated healer, then why doesn't one of them reroll into a walking band-aid kit?

Let someone else do the healing if they think it's insufficient.

Clerics are so much more than just healers. People who play as clerics shouldn't automatically be assigned to band-aid duty.

You've asked him to heal, and he's given you his response. Obviously he has no intentions of being the main in-combat healer (which is very inefficient anyway.)

EDIT: Woaah! Assuming 3e that is. If you're playing Basic, 1e, 2e or 4e, then he better start cracking out those heals.

I'd assume it to be 3e, primarily because the OP mentions a PrC.

In all honesty, I have to throw in with the choir here: don't fix what ain't broke. The party isn't wiping, the cleric is doing fine. If his method works, what's the issue?

[Tyndmyr]

Your cleric is fine. If your other players feel a need for more healing, they are welcome to play a healer themselves, no?

If I were this healer, Id have a perverse tendancy to, after enough wining, immediately heal them after every scratch, then, as soon as a boss encounter starts, inform them that I was out of heals. For definitions of out that include "just enough to save my own butt". Id then laugh manically at their plight. The words "I told you so" might come up.

[Ursus the Grim]

There were a lot more comments than I expected, so I can't address them all. I'm surprised, not upset, that there's so much support for the "cool your jets and wait" mentality. I would just point out that he could simply cast a 4th level spell (mind you, he is a lvl 19 full caster) to shut up the rest of the party. That's the issue the Bard had.

Hmm...this Jake...isn't Doc Roc, is it?

Jeez. If I was Doc Roc's DM, I think I'd have bigger issues than people whining about not being healed. That being said, I don't know his username, so he could have already posted. HE COULD HAVE PITTED YOU ALL AGAINST ME!!!!

Edit: Wait. He did say he was working on his own system. Oh lord. Oh no.

/paranoia.

So, that being said, how do you think I should go about asking the rest of the party to relax without clearly taking Cleric's side. We've had a few. . . gentle arguments in the past (remember the Seduction thread that exploded?) and I don't want to cause any MORE trouble. Technically speaking, there is no party leader. The Bard's player is inexperienced, so it might actually be the Cleric.

Also, this is 3.5, to be clear.

[Talya]

Point out the reason he has healing aura is so that he doesn't need to use up his all important spell slots on something so mundane as their hit points unless it's an emergency. That's the purpose of the damn thing.

4th level spells are huge, there's far better things he should be doing than healing with it.

Also, you could help them a lot by simply saying after every fight their hit points are healed to max. (Because they are.)

[tyckspoon]

You could probably patch the issue by throwing a Staff of Healing at the group if all they're really wanting is the occasional Cure X Wounds. Or just suggest they go buy one for the Cleric to use; it should be a trivial cost for a high-level party. Or a Staff of Heal (ie, Staff of Life without the huge extra cost of Resurrection in it), but I've never been clear on how staff prices are derived so I don't know what that'd actually cost.

[Valameer]

Bards make great healers! Maybe drop a wand of cure critical or something for him, and encourage the bard to pick up the cleric's slack.

If the problem is that the other players are pissed at low heals, the other players should look for ways to get more heals.

What are the other classes? Clerics aren't the only healers. Druids, bards, and artificers are all great healers. Many other classes can contribute to the healing as well.

The other players could invest in belts of healing, which are a inexpensive means for healing for anyone.

There's really no need to lean on the cleric so heavily.

[Ursus the Grim]

Bards make great healers! Maybe drop a wand of cure critical or something for him, and encourage the bard to pick up the cleric's slack.

If the problem is that the other players are pissed at low heals, the other players should look for ways to get more heals.

What are the other classes? Clerics aren't the only healers. Druids, bards, and artificers are all great healers. Many other classes can contribute to the healing as well.

The other players could invest in belts of healing, which are a inexpensive means for healing for anyone.

There's really no need to lean on the cleric so heavily.

Other classes.
Bard/Seeker of the Song
Sorcerer/Effigy Master
Rogue/Thief Acrobat
Death Slaad Assassin

So yeah, heals are pretty much just the Bard and Cleric. I might use the "meh, everyone's up to full" handwave, just for the sake of conflict avoidance.