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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    <<Yahoo-women and Yahoo-men, little-Yahoos of all ages! Houyhnhns and Not-Gullivers too!>>*

    *Translated from the Houyhnhn language

    So far, I've dealt with classes and prestige classes for the most part. And I've mostly grown some fame from retoolings of various classes (notwithstanding my own creations). But, of course, I've also done something else other than classes: if the few feats to aid martial characters and the fluff about deities (which is yet to be completed, don't rush me please) isn't something to speak about...

    So, eventually, I had to diversify a bit. And what better to do the only thing easier to homebrew than a class: monsters! You see; monsters are the other side of the D&D combat equation, since you can't have combat without someone to fight, am I right?

    So...I could do the same I do for classes and retool some monsters. OR, I could just give way to my imagination and develop some monsters of my own, which are easily made through combining two monsters that currently exist within the game.

    And thus, the question. Why horses?

    ...no, I'm not a brony. My selection of Youtube clips usually depend on external links, whatever piques my attention (usually songs), and the odd stuff I really have to see. Right now, I have an appointment with The Guild, which I started looking at through my smartphone. That, and my niece could be interested in My Little Pony, but she's a diehard fan of Curious George. It seems a curious little "monkey" (that has no tail whatsoever) is more popular to my niece's eyes than a flock of ponies. Well, it's either George, or Stitch, or Strawberry Shortcake, or any PBS kids' show.

    So it's rather odd that I start making homebrewed monsters that have relation to horses. However, the game has some fetish with horses...erm, sorta. I mean, the first mythological creatures that come to mind evidently include the centaur, the unicorn, the pegasus, the hippogryph, the behemoth (which is known to us mortals as the "hippopotamus") and the hippocampus (which isn't a monster, but rather a sea horse and actually a fish). Then there's the paladin's special mount, the knight's fetish with mounts, and...you get the idea.

    Bear in mind, this is NOT my first homebrewed monster. But, it's the first set of monsters with a theme, and something that's still a work in progress (but that can be churned in, believe it or not, 15-20 minutes or so with the right template), so it gets released first. It's also a breather from the very intensive Project Heretica (which is almost complete, only missing a few PrCs I dealt with) and before other intensive works (such as the feat revisions and the HAL system).

    So, without further ado, I introduce to everypony...I mean, everybody...the first two creatures in the Hippozoology thread: the Aegipartaures and the Hypnecataures.

    Note: the format I use is based (if not exactly taken from) the last monster formatting used in the 3.5 version of D&D, as presented on the Dungeon Master's Guide II.

    AEGIPARTAURES
    You see at the distance a magnificent creature. The lower half of his torso is that of a magnificent steed, except that his hooves are cloven as those of a goat, and the upper half of his torso is that of a handsome human male. He holds a magnificent white mane, a small beard at his chin, and a patch of white fur on his chest, light-green eyes and a noble poise. A twisted ivory horn rests on his forehead, pure white in color, and glistening upon the light of the sun.

    Aegipartaures CR
    Usually NG or CG Large monstrous humanoid
    Init. +2; Senses Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Listen +7, Spot +7
    Languages Common, Elven, Sylvan ________________________
    AC 14 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural, +1 light wooden shield), touch 11, flat-footed 14
    hp 33 (4 HD)
    Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +7; +4 vs poison, charm, compulsion
    Speed 50 ft. (10 squares)
    Melee scimitar +7 (1d8+4/19-20) and 2 hooves +2 (1d6+2) or
    Ranged javelin +5 (1d8+4)
    Base Atk. +4; Grp. +12 __________________________
    Atk. Options aligned strike, powerful charge

    Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th)
    1/day -- magic circle against evil
    3/day -- cure light wounds
    At-will -- detect evil_____________________________________
    Abilities Str 19, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 17
    SQ maiden affinity
    Feats Alertness, Combat Reflexes
    Skills Heal +7, Hide -2, Jump +8, Listen +7, Move Silently +5, Spot +7, Survival +7
    Advancement by character class Favored Class Paladin__________________________
    Aligned Strike (Su): An aegipartaures' natural weapons are treated as good-aligned for purposes of damage reduction.

    Powerful Charge (Ex): Whenever an aegipartaures makes a charge, he gains a single gore attack that deals 2d6+4 points of piercing damage. This is in addition to any attacks done by means of the charge.

    Maiden Affinity: An aegipartaures, owing to its unusual upbringing, feels naturally inclined to the presence of a maiden and has a strong protective nature when one is threatened. An aegipartaures gains a +4 bonus on Diplomacy checks when speaking with a maiden, and usually begins with an attitude of friendly. If a maiden is threatened, the aegipartaures gains a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks against the maiden's enemies so as long as the maiden and the aegipartaures are within 100 ft. of distance.


    The aegipartaures is the result of a cross between an unicorn and a centaur, mixing the qualities of both creatures.

    Occasionally, an unicorn and a maiden centaur fall in love, with the aegipartaures emerging as a result. This unusual coupling marks both for life, as the unicorn becomes protective of his new mate and the centaur gains an unusual partner for life, bearing the fruit of their relationship. The aegipartaures, as a result, resembles a centaur with the defining traits of an unicorn, such as its white mane and fur, its hooves and its forehead; yet, it is the single horn on its forehead and the ingrained affinity for maidens that define their existence.

    Aegipartaures usually live on forests, particularly those near druid's groves or holding strong presence of fey. Distant cousins of the bariaur (see Book of Exalted Deeds, page 165) due to their attachment to good, aegipartaures are unusually rare, long-living and particularly fickle, but fierce in combat. Whenever a maiden is threatened, the aegipartaures rushes to her defense disregarding all safety, and offers its assistance until she reaches safety. The horns of an aegipartaures are believed to hold magical powers, as those of unicorns, but this is not true; while the aegipartaures does share some of its parent's healing traits, its horn is no more magical than that of a bull or ram.

    Aegipartaures are about 7 feet tall and usually weigh an average of 2,200 pounds. The eyes of an aegipartaures are similar to those of its unicorn parent, and females have no breasts as that of humans, instead feeding their children as horses would (yet they still hold a patch of fur upon their chest).


    STRATEGIES AND TACTICS

    Most of the time, an aegipartaures flees from any bystander it sees approach, generally being peaceful. If they are threatened, or if a maiden is under assault, the aegipartaures generally charges the closest enemy it can see, goring his enemy and attempting to intimidate the rest. Against several enemies, the aegipartaures first uses its magic circle against evil, then charges headrush to the group with the largest amount of enemies, attempting to take the one it perceives as the leader. Aegipartaures generally don't use their healing abilities on themselves, instead using them on a maiden (or in the case of assistance in combat, upon creatures it deems worthy), but its skill at mundane healing compensates. If it feels a threat is sufficient, the aegipartaures uses its javelin and issues a warning before engaging in combat.

    Spoiler
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    The aegipartaures (a name taken from the suffix "-taurus" as used on the centaurs (even though they're really named "bull piercers"), alongside the words aegis (usually a cape, but best related to the shield of Zeus) and parthenos (virgin), should mean "half-human, half-unicorn maiden protector". Please, don't rush it too much with the name, but at least it sounds mystical, right?

    In any case, it's basically a washed-down unicorn with a human's torso. It still has some of its healing powers and the ability to detect evil, but it has none of the real interesting stuff like...well, Neutralize Poison. And its stats are somewhere between the Unicorn and the Centaur, so on average it has better Con and Charisma.

    Powerful Charge exists to implement the horn attack without making it a primary weapon. Since their combat style is closer to the centaur than to the unicorn, these guys won't be using their horns a lot. However, the bariaur has a nice tactic which uses its horns as part of a charge for increased damage (gore attacks are so nice!). Of course, if there's some distinction between the original version of the Powerful Charge ability (not the feat) and this one, the purpose is to add a gore attack as part of the charge.

    So, why Paladin if they're "usually NG or CG"? The stats just ask for it (very nice Str, Con, Wis and Cha scores, some healing, good BAB and bonuses to the two ability scores the Pally lacks), and it fits the "protector" idea better than a Fighter would. Since favored class provides benefits ONLY if you're multiclassing (and in any case, if you're using it as a monster, that's not so important) AND the idea is "usually" (not "always"), you can have some Paladins. That, and you could have an actual "Maiden Protector" version of the creature. Actually, that would be a nice idea (using the Core Paladin AND the Project Heretica Paladin to support my other 'brew).


    HYPNECATAURES
    In the still of the night, a nefarious figure emerges from the fog. The lower half of his body is that of a horse with pitch-black fur and flaming hooves; his upper half has a lithe human torso with a flaming mane and a sinister grin in his lips. As he breathes, small wisps of flame emerge from his mouth and nostrils, growing more intense as he draws near you, a massive blade drawn and ready to strike.

    Hypnecataures CR
    Always NE Large outsider (evil, native)
    Init. +6; Senses Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Listen +10, Spot +10
    Languages Common, Infernal, Sylvan ______________________
    AC 14 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13
    hp 27 (4 HD)
    Resist fire 5
    Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5 _____________________
    Speed 40 ft. (8 squares); fly 60 ft
    Melee greatsword +7 (3d6+6) and 2 hooves +3 (1d6+2 plus 1d4 fire) or
    Ranged composite longbow +5 (1d8+4/x3 plus 1d4 fire)
    Base Atk. +4; Grp. +12 __________________________
    Atk. Options aligned strike, ember arrows, flaming hooves
    Special Attacks breath weapon 1/encounter (1d6 fire, 30 ft. cone)

    Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th)
    1/day--ethereal jaunt
    3/day--deep slumber, hold person ________________________________
    Abilities Str 19, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
    SQ none
    Feats Alertness, Improved Initiative
    Skills Hide +1, Intimidate +7, Jump +13, Listen +10, Move Silently +9, Search +7, Sense Motive +8, Spot +10, Survival +10
    Advancement by character class Favored Class ranger___________________________
    Aligned Strike (Su): A hypnecataures' natural weapons are treated as evil-aligned for purposes of bypasing damage reduction.
    Breath Weapon (Su): A hypnecataures may use a breath weapon once per encounter: a 15-ft. cone of fire. It may use this ability as a swift action alongside its normal attacks. A Reflex DC 14 saving throws negates the damage; the save DC is Constitution-based.
    Ember Arrows (Su): Any arrow drawn and shot by a hypnecataures deals 1d4 points of fire damage and instantly set combustible materials alight. This effect does not work on arrows enchanted by the frost property (or if they are launched from bows with the frost property) nor it adds to the damage from an arrow (or bow) with the flaming property, however.
    Flaming Hooves (Su): A hypnecataures' hoof attacks instantly set combustible materials alight. This includes combustible materials generated from spell effects (such as a web spell).


    The hypnecataures is a cross between a centaur and a nightmare, mixing the qualities of both creatures.

    Being untamable and intelligent outsiders, nightmares sometimes force their way upon centaurs, particularly those females whom bravely face them in combat. The result is the unholy hypnecataures, a being emerging from the darkest dreams of centaurs; a creature with the skill and poise of the centaur and the malice of the nightmare. Much as their outsider parents, they are fickle and traitorous, usually associating with evil creatures if it seems favorable to them but otherwise perpetual loners.

    The hypnecataures is about 7 feet tall and weighs about 2,100 pounds.

    STRATEGY AND TACTICS

    The hypnecataures likes to play with its enemies before engaging. Its favorite tactic is to begin combat by isolating a group, then casting deep slumber on its enemy. Then, while helpless, he pins the individual, delivering the usual hoof attack with flames until it perishes. If it engages combat, it awaits until several enemies are close before striking with his breath weapon, then attempts to trip his enemy and grapple until its pinned.

    Spoiler
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    Yes, if the aegipartaures is the "good-inclined" centaur, this is its evil twin. I mean, the unicorn and the nightmare (not including the celestial charger vs. the cauchemar) are opposites, so I figured "why not"?

    So, the first few things you might notice as "odd" are the very small breath weapon as a swift action and Ethereal Jaunt cast with a lower CL. Both are easy to explain.

    The first (the breath weapon as swift action) is mostly because it's a rather interesting snort from the hypnecataures' part. Breathing is a free action, although the actual breath attack takes a lot because you're aspiring a lot of air and mix the breath with the energy discharge. In this case, making the equivalent of a Burning Hands spell cast by a 1st level character by this level as a standard action once per encounter would have been a terrible joke. They can't breathe enough to form the nightmare's smoke attack so that's out of the question, nor they have the proper ability to breathe more than once per encounter, so the only way to make it useful was to make it as a swift action; thus, you can engage in combat and unleash the breath at the right moment while still taking out your target. Suggestions, as usual, are welcome but it shouldn't be as powerful as the nightmare's snort attack because they don't have the nostrils to pull that off.

    The second is actually supported by the rules as much as they can be. Unless the Rules Compendium has changed it, the SRD states that spell-like abilities may be cast at a lower level than the one needed to cast, so it's natural to limit the use of Ethereal Jaunt to 1/day and at a drastically lower caster level (FYI, the CL to cast Ethereal Jaunt is 13) in order to draw from some of the nightmare's powers (can you imagine they can do Astral Projection AND Etherealness AT-WILL!? AS A CREATURE WITH 6 HD!?!?!?). In any case, having at least 5 rounds of etherealness wouldn't be so bad, and by the time you get a Ghost Touch weapon much less so.

    Now...why Deep Slumber? Well, the name kinda spoils everything. I'm no linguist, but the name should tell everything: "hypnos" means sleep, while hidden within the name is a reference to Hecate, the goddess of magic and witchcraft in ancient Greek mythology. So, while a rather loose translation would be "dream of Hecate", it could also be interpreted as "hexed/accursed/jinxed dream", which is what a nightmare originally meant (and to an extent still is). See what I did there? In any case, the idea is to emulate the original concept of sleep paralysis: the hypnecataures would send you to sleep, then pin you and stand upon your chest so that you couldn't move while awakening. Pretty eerie if you think about it, and definitely something wicked. Besides, its parent is called a "nightmare", what did you expect? Certainly not the actual Nightmare spell, which is quite hard to pull off despite the casting time provisions for spell-like abilities depending where you read the description at.

    The arrows are a nice touch; quivers are within the back or close to hair, so it makes sense that they could be lit up before being shot. Assume that the arrows are coated with some sort of combustive material produced by the creature if necessary (natural oils produced by the hand, although not enough to burn things) and then lit up right as they are taken from the quiver. 1d4 fire damage isn't particularly powerful, but it can add to the hypnecataures' potential within ranged damage. It also blends with the hoof damage, which is pretty much ripped off from the actual nightmare.


    So, as usual, I ask for your comments or suggestions regarding how to deal with the monsters. I could certainly have someone gauge its CR, since I'm not so good at it and also the CR evaluation in the Monster Manual is quite off. Later, I should have more info about these two, alongside more horse-related monsters.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    I don't know if you've been aware of the monster stat block format generally used on this board (as evidenced by the monster contests), but the format you use is not it. The reason we use the one presented in the online SRD at http://www.d20srd.org is for ease of reviewing.

    Your format is one I've been railing against since its inception. For DMing, it's useful, but for reviewing, it leaves out pertinent and sometimes key information.

    It takes time to go over the stat block and your format makes it that much harder.

    I'm putting it in standard format for ease of reference here. I've made corrections and the only thing I've switched is the feat. It has 14 skill points. I maxed out Spot and Listen added bonuses from Alertness. It has no ranks in Diplomacy but gets it as per Maiden Affinity.
    Spoiler
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    Aegipartaur
    Large Monstrous Humanoid
    Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
    Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural, +1 light wooden shield), touch 11, flat-footed 14
    BAB/Grapple: +4/+12
    Attack: Large scimitar +7 melee (1d8+4/18-20) or Large Javelin +5 ranged (1d8+4)
    Full Attack: Large scimitar +7 melee (1d8+4/18-20) and 2 hooves +3 melee (1d6+2) or Large Javelin +5 ranged (1d8+4) and 2 hooves +3 melee (1d6+2)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Aligned Strike, Powerful Charge
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Maiden Affinity, Resistance to Charm, Compulsion and Poison, Spell-like abilities
    Saves: Fort +4 , Reflex +6 , Will +7
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 17
    Skills: Diplomacy + 3 (+7 to Maidens), Listen +12 and Spot +12
    Feats: Alertness, Weapon Focus (hoof)
    Environment: Temperate Forests
    Organization: Solitary or with Maiden
    Challenge Rating: 6
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Usually Neutral Good or Chaotic Good
    Advancement: By Character Class, Favored Class: Paladin
    Level Adjustment: +3


    Corrections, Comments and Questions

    Aegipartaur has incorrect hit points. 4d8+12 = 30 hp not 33. 4x4.5=18 +12=30. AC is off. Numbers equal 16 not 14. The BAB is correct 4; and melee combat is +4 BAB +4 Str bonus -1 Large size.

    Since neither Unicorns nor Centaurs have special attacks, why does their offspring have one? Also, why a scimitar rather than longsword like centaur? Scimitars critical on 18-20 not 19-20.

    Where does Aligned Strike come from? Neither Unicorn nor Centaur has it. Ditto for Powerful Charge and Maiden Affinity. Adding special abilities and special attacks may increase the CR of this creature making it too easy for its HD. Technically all Maiden affinity does is grant it a +4 to Diplomacy when dealing with Maidens but you should clarify this. Do you mean only centaur maidens or if you mean other kinds of maidens as well. Maiden Affinity seems to be an Extraordinary ability.

    Feats should match parents' feats: Alertness and Skill Focus (Survival) for Unicorn and Dodge and Weapon Focus (hoof) for Centaur. I'd change it to Alertness and Weapon Focus (hoof) for this. Combat Reflexes isn't as useful as Weapon Focus (hoof). Since it only has +2 melee with a hoof, that extra +1 is more useful.

    I think it is a shame you removed the horn attack. However, you added it back in as a Powerful Charge, which is a little odd.

    Why doesn't it have a ranged weapon like a centaur as well? Actually, in the fluff you mention it uses a javelin but it isn't in the stat block and it should be. I added it as a thrown weapon.

    Unicorns have a +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. *Unicorns have a +3 competence bonus on Survival checks within the boundaries of their forest. Should this creature have some of this as well? It does gain Diplomacy from Maiden affinity so it's not essential.

    Your version of Magic Circle Against Evil is weaker but it also doesn't have the following: immunity to poison, charm, and compulsion, low-light vision, scent, wild empathy. It seems you gave it a +4 racial bonus to save against poison, charm and compulsion but it should be noted in a separate section and not included in statblock since it won't always be a Will save.

    Resistance to Charm, Compulsion and Poison: Aegipartaures have a +4 racial bonus on saving throws against all charm effects, compulsion and poison (not included in the statistics block).

    The first flaw is that you don't follow your premise. As the offspring of a unicorn and centaur, these have too many features that neither parent possesses and is missing key abilities and features that one or the other of its parents does possess.

    The second flaw is in your design. I'm getting CR 6 for a 4 HD monster. That's a problem. It makes your creature too easy for a party of that level since 1. Odds are they have ranged weapons and 2. It can't take the damage they can throw at it. It's a glass cannon.

    I'd recommend losing its special attacks or giving it more HD.

    This is the CR estimator that I used.

    Vorpal Tribble’s CR estimator

    #1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
    4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

    #2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

    #3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

    #4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

    #5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

    #6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.

    Edit:Right now it as the following racial modifiers: +8 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con, +6 Wis and + 6 Char. It isn't balanced so it's worth at least +1 LA . For its special attacks, it gains +1 to LA and probably another for its special qualities since it more powerful than a standard centaur. A normal centaur has LA +2, and this should have more.

    Last thing -- shouldn't it be spelled aegipartaur and aegipartaurs and hypnecataur and hypnecataurs?

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2011-07-02 at 06:03 PM. Reason: added text and moved things around for clarity.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    The thing that bothers me isn't so much that they're hybrids that don't necessarily follow either parent so much as with the Powerful Gore attack. Humanoid necks aren't designed to handle the kind of stress that would inflict and I'm having trouble imagining them lowering their heads low enough to engage Medium targets with it. Just seems awkward in execution, really.

    I know you like your pseudo-linguistically apt names but they're quite the mouthful as well. Maybe simplify a little bit? At least the first one, the second isn't so bad.

    With the Hypnecataures, I'm not finding the breath weapon overly appealing, it just feels kinda tacked on. Maybe some kind of Trample, where it intensifies the heat from its hooves to leave burned hoof marks in its victims as a sort of grim brand or some such?

    I'm also taking that it's heavily dependent on its spell-likes so that it can start combat maneuvers without worrying about AoOs but that seems a bit contrived to me, since it lacks Improved Grapple. If that is its primary strategy, I'd think they'd be good enough at grappling things without needing to depend on knocking their target out magically before beating them to death.

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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    I don't know if you've been aware of the monster stat block format generally used on this board (as evidenced by the monster contests), but the format you use is not it. The reason we use the one presented in the online SRD at http://www.d20srd.org is for ease of reviewing.

    Your format is one I've been railing against since its inception. For DMing, it's useful, but for reviewing, it leaves out pertinent and sometimes key information.

    It takes time to go over the stat block and your format makes it that much harder.

    I'm putting it in standard format for ease of reference here. I've made corrections and the only thing I've switched is the feat. It has 14 skill points. I maxed out Spot and Listen added bonuses from Alertness. It has no ranks in Diplomacy but gets it as per Maiden Affinity.
    Spoiler
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    Aegipartaur
    Large Monstrous Humanoid
    Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
    Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural, +1 light wooden shield), touch 11, flat-footed 14
    BAB/Grapple: +3/+11
    Attack: Large scimitar +5 melee (1d8+4/18-20)
    Full Attack: Large scimitar +5 melee (1d8+4/18-20) and 2 hooves +1 melee (1d6+2) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Aligned Strike, Powerful Charge
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Maiden Affinity, Resistance to Charm, Compulsion and Poison, Spell-like abilities
    Saves: Fort +4 , Reflex +6 , Will +7
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 17
    Skills: Diplomacy + 3 (+7 to Maidens), Listen +12 and Spot +12
    Feats: Alertness, Weapon Focus (hoof)
    Environment: Temperate Forests
    Organization: Solitary or with Maiden
    Challenge Rating: 6
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Usually Neutral Good or Chaotic Good
    Advancement: By Character Class, Favored Class: Paladin
    Level Adjustment: At least +2
    Actually, I am aware of it. It's basically the old format for monsters, which only adds a few things such as treasure and environment.

    The missing information is because the new format explains their environment and their use as characters on separate places, with more detailed explanation. Usually, the treasure would be detailed in "Typical Treasure" and the preferred environment on "Ecology". It's something I could add for purposes of completion, which might need some time.

    I'd still like to use this format since, as you mentioned (though I have to be sure if this is your personal opinion or merely common advice) it's easier for the DM to use (and I find its actually easier to use). I could have a double-format presentation for revision AND ease of use, if that's a reasonable agreeement.

    As for the skills, I'm gonna revise them, but I didn't focus on two skills rather than spread them. The actual skill spread should be as follows (and I should add it on the spoilers for ease of reference from now on):
    Heal: 4 ranks, +3 Wis
    Hide: -4 size penalty, +2 Dex
    Jump: should be +12 (+4 Str, +8 from having 20 ft extra speed from the norm).
    Listen: 2 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 Alertness
    Move Silently: 2 ranks, +2 Dex (should be +4 then)
    Spot: 2 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 Alertness
    Survival: 4 ranks, +3 Wis

    So, that'd be 4 ranks on Heal (because they lack Neutralize Poison), 2 ranks on Listen, Move Silently and Spot, and 4 ranks on Survival, for a total of 14 ranks. As per the format rules, skills that have any kind of bonus or penalty should be added to ease calculation (which meant I also had to add Diplomacy and Intimidate to tack on Maiden Affinity circumstance bonus).

    Corrections, Comments and Questions

    Aegipartaure has wrong BAB and hit points. BAB for Monstrous Humanoids is same as Cleric i.e. +3 not +4; 4d8+12 = 30 hp not 33. This will throw off all your attacks too. AC is off. Numbers equal 16 not 14.
    SRD and Monster Manual claim Monstrous Humanoids gain BAB as Fighter. So it's BAB equal to their Hit Dice; they get 4 HD, so it's BAB +4.

    Good call on the AC, though. I tend to always make the first HD give maximum HPs, so it results in 33; however, if going for purely average, it would be 30.

    Since neither Unicorns nor Centaurs have special attacks, why does their offspring have one? Also, why a scimitar rather than longsword like centaur? Scimitars critical on 18-20 not 19-20.
    Centaur has no special attacks, but the Unicorn has a horn attack. This relates to something you said earlier: technically, they should have a horn attack, but it would be awkward to use unless charging because they're much larger than the average unicorn. Thus, when watching at the Bariaur, I noticed they had the Powerful Charge feature, and I decided that was a good way to keep their horn attack in a very specific way to use them, since they'd have some ease of use when charging than when making normal attacks. Then again, apparently I'm bending real-world biology like crazy but have my reserves on real-world physics. So, long story short: Powerful Charge exists to replace the horn attack they'd get otherwise.

    As for scimitars: if I were really pedantic about the weapons they use, I'd have given them shortswords. You see, kentaures most likely used xiphos, a type of leaf-bladed short sword with a long point, which would have been used for piercing AND slashing. Since I'm rather nice with them, I decided to use scimitars for them in order to provide some distance with their centaur parents; curved swords and straight swords exist on the same timeline, are used within the area they live on (so it'd not be rare to see centaurs wielding scimitar rather than longswords; recall druids and elves use scimitars as well) and would be easier to draw. That, and I like the increased critical threat range on them; thanks for reminding me of the right one.

    Where does Aligned Strike come from? Neither Unicorn nor Centaur has it. Ditto for Powerful Charge and Maiden Affinity. Adding special abilities and special attacks may increase the CR of this creature making it too easy for its HD. Technically all Maiden affinity does is grant it a +4 to Diplomacy when dealing with Maidens but you should clarify this. Do you mean only centaur maidens or if you mean other kinds of maidens as well. Maiden Affinity seems to be an Extraordinary ability.
    Hmm...I thought that the Unicorn may have had good-aligned natural weapons. Must have been some slip.

    As mentioned, Powerful Charge is a replacement for the horn attack, and Maiden Affinity is mostly a flavor ability, so while one DOES offer an increase to its CR, the other is quite situational and might not do as much. And Maiden Affinity doesn't work if there's no maiden around, so the +4 bonus to Intimidate checks is actually situational, hence it has to be added. Remember, it's more of a flavor ability than an actual increase to their skills, and generally they're less than intimidating, in terms of behavior. Maiden Affinity is meant to work with all maidens, to keep the flavor of Unicorns automatically detecting maidens and falling asleep on their lap, but yeah; it seems to be (Ex). I guess I went too happy with (Su).

    Feats should match parents' feats: Alertness and Skill Focus (Survival) for Unicorn and Dodge and Weapon Focus (hoof) for Centaur. I'd change it to Alertness and Weapon Focus (hoof) for this. Combat Reflexes isn't as useful as Weapon Focus (hoof). Since it only has +0 melee with a hoof, that +1 is much better.
    Should. Key word here.

    Odd on how you reach the +0 melee with the hoof. If I recall correctly, even with BAB as a cleric you'd get a +3; a 19 in Strength adds a +4 for a total of +7. Being hooves treated as secondary attacks, they'd have a -5 penalty; coupled with the size penalty to attack rolls, hooves work at a +1, not +0 (unless there's another penalty I'm not aware of). Now, since they're actually using full BAB, they get a +2 bonus, as I mentioned. Thus, Weapon Focus (hoof) wouldn't be as interesting. Since they only get two natural weapons (the hooves which count as one, plus the horn if you consider the Powerful Charge ability as a replacement for the Unicorn's horn attack), they can't use Multiattack either, so they're screwed in that part.

    However, it would be decent to build their protector part; and what better way than to deliver a battlefield control feat such as Combat Reflexes, which they can use since they have the right Dexterity? Skill Focus (Survival) isn't that good either, and they're already having the Alertness feat in order to represent their enhanced awareness to things, so in order to provide some distancing from their parent class they should have something that represents them, and Combat Reflexes plays on that.

    It's not that I resent the advice, but I find that limiting only to four feats, which all are only moderately useful, might be a bit detrimental to the creature per se.

    Why doesn't it have a ranged weapon like a centaur as well?
    Mmm? Last I thought, javelins were ranged weapons. I wanted to play with their Grecorroman heritage, and while longbows could have existed within that period, javelins could take advantage of their strength without having to stretch composite longbows to meet their strength. Mainly, it's meant to play with the flavor of the class; however, they *do* have a ranged weapon, and they have the speed to work with it.

    Unicorns have a +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. *Unicorns have a +3 competence bonus on Survival checks within the boundaries of their forest. Should this creature have some of this as well? It does gain Diplomacy from Maiden affinity so it's not essential.
    Yes on the racial bonus, not really on the Survival checks. As you mentioned, it's not that essential.

    Your version of Magic Circle Against Evil is weaker but it also doesn't have the following: immunity to poison, charm, and compulsion, low-light vision, scent, wild empathy. It seems you gave it a +4 racial bonus to save against poison, charm and compulsion but it should be noted in a separate section and not included in statblock since it won't always be a Will save.

    Resistance to Charm, Compulsion and Poison: Aegipartaures have a +4 racial bonus on saving throws against all charm effects, compulsion and poison (not included in the statistics block).
    Since it's meant to be some sort of hybrid (with lessened abilities) between both, I dealt with some of the stuff.

    The creature DOES have low-light vision; it's tacked to the right of darkvision and to the left of its Listen bonus, so it has it. Scent I didn't add because their noses are too small, so I erred on the side of the centaur which doesn't have them; low-light vision is something they can have, on the other hand, because it's a visual acuity skill. The Wild Empathy ability, on the other hand, doesn't seem as necessary.

    The resistances, on the other hand, are placed on the right area as per the new format. The reason why they are added at the right, separated by a semicolon, is because this should indicate when these apply, not where (poison doesn't apply on Will saves, but it's a reminder they get a +4 on Fort saves whenever poison applies). Divine Grace falls on the same area, and if they had the permanent Magic Circle against Evil, that would appear on both AC and saves. So this is basically a format clash; adding an entirely new special quality to justify their resistances when they can simply be part of their statblock as conditional bonuses should cut out on what appears below.

    The first flaw is that you don't follow your premise. As the offspring of a unicorn and centaur, these have too many features that neither parent possesses and is missing key abilities and features that one or the other of its parents does possess.
    It's achieving compromises. Since they have no Neutralize Poison, they need something to replace it, hence Heal checks. They aren't built to make horn attacks while standing because of their size, so they add them to their charges through Powerful Charge (taken from the Bariaur which would have a similar problem). They still get Cure Light Wounds and a temporary form of Magic Circle against Evil (to replace the loss of Cure Moderate Wounds and their permanent MCaE). It has resistances instead of immunities regarding the Unicorn's typical immunities. It has low-light vision as the Unicorn, while keeping the darkvision of both races. It has a natural armor bonus higher than the Centaur, but lower than the Unicorn, so it's right in-between. I'd say it has its fair share of both creatures, except that the Unicorn has nearly three times more racial features than the Centaur AND it has some it already shares, so instead of making a Unicorn with a human torso (which would have fit quite a lot more the premise), it's a creature that has lower versions of the Unicorn's abilities in exchange for a human torso and the ability to wield human weaponry.

    The second flaw is in your design. I'm getting CR 6 for a 4 HD monster. That's a problem. It makes your creature too easy for a party of that level since 1. Odds are they have ranged weapons and 2. It can't take the damage they can throw at it. It's a glass cannon.

    I'd recommend losing its special attacks or giving it 2 extra HD.
    Hmm...lemme do an estimation based on the calculator below (BTW, thanks for sharing it; I was looking for it, though I probably looked wrong by insisting on Googling it)

    This is the CR estimator that I used.

    Vorpal Tribble’s CR estimator

    #1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
    4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

    #2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

    #3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

    #4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

    #5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

    #6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.
    Let's check the unicorn.

    1) 42/4.5 = 9 (and 1/3rds, but that is ignored)
    2) AC 18, so that's a +1
    3) No special attacks, but apparently spell-like abilities count as special attacks, so a +1 here. They get Detect Evil (quite useful) at-will, Cure Light Wounds 3/day as a 5th level caster (so, pretty much maxed CLW) and Cure Moderate Wounds 1/day (so they get some decent healing), but Neutralize Poison (awesome at that level, when poison immunities are scarce and DCs are still threatening) and Greater Teleport (although in their turf, it's still a reasonable ability) makes it a +2, quite probably a +3. This is based on the forum rationale that a Druid summoning a Unicorn provides more healing than a Healer from Miniatures Handbook (of course, counting for the many uses of SNA which effectively multiply the effect). Let's agree on a +2 because it has some nice healing spells, but it can also be a +1.
    4) If we count ALL special qualities, they get Darkvision (+1), Scent (+1), permanent Magic Circle against Evil (+2 because, let's face it, immunity to mental control at will IS really powerful, and if that includes mind-affecting doubly so), low-light vision (+1), wild empathy (+1), immunity to poison (+2), charm (+2) and compulsion (+2). That's a whopping +12.
    5) No bonus feats, so this one remains a 0.
    6) Total result: 9 + 1 + (1~2) + 12 = 23~24. Based on the division, a Unicorn should be a CR 7-8 creature. This is two over the Aegipartaures, which has washed-down features.

    Now, going through the same calculation on the Aegipartaures (using the new format):
    1) 33/4.5 = 7 (and 1/3rds, which are ignored). If using the actual average score, then it'd be 30/4.5 = 6 (and 2/3rds, which can be ignored). Let's assume a 7 for ease of calculation, since the range closely resembles 7.
    2) AC 16 (as pointed out) gives a +1
    3) Powerful Charge counts as a +1, while Aligned Strike adds a +1. Let's keep Aligned Strike for purposes of calculation, but rest assured, pointing out that none of them have aligned natural weapons will nix this one. So it's +2. Now, assume it's spell-like abilities: since they lack Neutralize Poison and Magic Circle against Evil, while powerful, is a 1/day SLA, they get less powerful stuff than the Unicorn, so it would make sense to keep this as a +1. However, MCaE IS very powerful for about 500 rounds, so let's bump this to a +2 just because they get half the power of the Unicorn but they still get one strong ability.
    4) Counting ALL special qualities based on the old format, that'd be: darkvision (+1), low-light vision (+1), maiden affinity (+1). Let's assume that resistances would count separately, so that's a +3 to all abilities. That adds a +6, so it's roughly half of what the Unicorn should get. Using the new format, however, visual abilities count as special qualities but aren't added in the actual section; plus, darkvision is ridiculously easy to get, and low-light vision even more so, hence it's a common ability and probably not worth the 1/3 CR both add. So that might end up with a +4, +1 if you consider the fixed resistances less threatening than outright immunities.
    5) As the unicorn, they have no bonus feats; ergo, +0
    6) 7 + 1 + 4 + 6 = 17, which indeed resembles a CR 6 (actually 5 2/3, which should be 5 if rounded down, but using actual rounding rules for purpose of fairness). Nuking Aligned Strike would reduce the score by 1, so it may reach a flimsy CR 5 (5 1/3). If darkvision and low-light vision are treated as worthy of 2/3rds CR, then it remains as such, and thus it would keep a nice CR of 5; in common ground, it'd be 5 (if rounding up) or 4 (if rounding down). If treating the resistances as lower than they should, then that nixes the score by 2/3rds, reaching a rather solid CR 4.

    So, assuming the corrections are done, does a CR 4 really works better than a CR 6? Nixing Powerful Charge would indeed make the CR gravitate between 3 and 4, closer to 4 than to 3, but the horn attack may seem even weirder since they couldn't use it on anything that wasn't of their same size or larger, so...that would require some special move, and that returns to square one.

    So, doing the corrections (and keeping what I consider important), the end result would be:
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    Aegipartaures
    Large Monstrous Humanoid
    Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
    Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural, +1 light wooden shield), touch 11, flat-footed 14
    BAB/Grapple: +4/+12
    Attack: Large scimitar +7 melee (1d8+4/18-20) or large javelin +5 ranged (1d8+4/x2)
    Full Attack: Large scimitar +7 melee (1d8+4/18-20) and 2 hooves +2 melee (1d6+2)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Aligned Strike, Powerful Charge
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Maiden Affinity, Resistance to Charm, Compulsion and Poison, Spell-like abilities
    Saves: Fort +4 , Reflex +6 , Will +7
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 17
    Skills: Diplomacy + 3 (+7 to Maidens), Heal +7, Jump +8, Listen +7, Move Silently +8 (4 racial), Spot + and Survival +7
    Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes
    Environment: Temperate Forests
    Organization: Solitary or with Maiden
    Challenge Rating: 3? 4?
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Usually Neutral Good or Chaotic Good
    Advancement: By Character Class, Favored Class: Paladin
    Level Adjustment: At least +2


    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    The thing that bothers me isn't so much that they're hybrids that don't necessarily follow either parent so much as with the Powerful Gore attack. Humanoid necks aren't designed to handle the kind of stress that would inflict and I'm having trouble imagining them lowering their heads low enough to engage Medium targets with it. Just seems awkward in execution, really.
    Tell that to the Bariaur. They get the same ability, and they're also meant to be Large creatures. I made that to replace their horn attack, which would be even MORE awkward. But, that might be yet another good reason why to remove the attack. Though...their sheer size makes them unable to use their horns on anything less than Large, so...how to deal with this?

    I know you like your pseudo-linguistically apt names but they're quite the mouthful as well. Maybe simplify a little bit? At least the first one, the second isn't so bad.
    Aegeparthes? Two out of three, and less of a mouthful (EGG-eh-part-ess).

    With the Hypnecataures, I'm not finding the breath weapon overly appealing, it just feels kinda tacked on. Maybe some kind of Trample, where it intensifies the heat from its hooves to leave burned hoof marks in its victims as a sort of grim brand or some such?
    Hmm...interesting. Though, it conflicts with Trample. Maybe Improved Overrun and a special attack that works with overruns?
    I'm also taking that it's heavily dependent on its spell-likes so that it can start combat maneuvers without worrying about AoOs but that seems a bit contrived to me, since it lacks Improved Grapple. If that is its primary strategy, I'd think they'd be good enough at grappling things without needing to depend on knocking their target out magically before beating them to death.
    As I mentioned, it's really the flavor part of simulating sleep paralysis. It's odd that the actual Nightmare doesn't use this (I mean, it's name should provoke some sort of sleep ability, yet it lacks it). Might remove Deep Slumber, since it's mostly to evoke the flavor of the actual Nightmare rather than the D&D version (really, why does it lack that?). Reminds me of what I might want to do if I have the time to deal with the Nightmare through retooling; flaming hooves and ember arrows should be enough.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    Actually I was editing my post (several times to fix errors I made) when you posted so some of the things you mention are fixed in my stat block as well.
    This is precisely why I won't critique on monsters using your format. It is way to easy to overlook things and get them wrong. For example, I missed the low-light vision and javelin. There is a reason the SRD uses the format I prefer. It makes it a lot easier to see everything on one line.

    Attack Options are Special Attacks just renamed. So you have 2.

    CR estimator: 33/4.5= 6; AC=16 not 14 so that is +6; It has 2 special attacks (aligned charge and powerful charge). Special Qualities that count: Darkvision 60 ft., Low-light vision, Maiden Affinity, Resistance to Charm, Compulsion and Poison, Spell-like abilities for 7.

    6 +6, +2 +7= 21/3=7.

    The unicorn has a higher CR using VT's guide, but VT's guide is only a rough estimate. I suspect the unicorn's low CR is based on the fact in combat most of its abilities are useless. It's a talking horse that can do nice things. CR 3 about sums it up.

    Spell-like abilities are not usually special attacks, they are special qualities. Spells are special attacks. Since none of the spell-like abilities are powerful enough to warrant an adjustment, I just grouped them together.

    Realistically it has CR 7 but because it has some watered down abilities and low HD, 6 is probably more accurate.

    The problem is assigning VT's calculator to existing monsters. It isn't accurate enough. I only use it on homebrew for quick assessment. Sometimes I ignore special qualities that come from a creature's Type altogether when trying to figure out CR. All Monstrous Humanoids have darkvision 60 feet as a Trait.

    New critique

    It looks good to me :-)

    Also, if you don't mind making 2 stat blocks it would be great. I always miss stuff when I'm going back and forth. Really, the old format makes it a LOT easier to critique. That is why it is used in the contests. I am sure the newer stat block is easier for DMing so I do understand your preference for it.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    Tell that to the Bariaur. They get the same ability, and they're also meant to be Large creatures. I made that to replace their horn attack, which would be even MORE awkward. But, that might be yet another good reason why to remove the attack. Though...their sheer size makes them unable to use their horns on anything less than Large, so...how to deal with this?
    Not overly familiar with Bariaur myself, other than they're holy ramtaurs, so I guess there being precedent makes it alright. Still, just seems awkward and likely for them to overturn from having their center of balance in an odd place.

    Aegeparthes? Two out of three, and less of a mouthful (EGG-eh-part-ess).
    Not much of a linguist myself, just made me balk a little at trying to figure out how to pronounce it. Not very phonetic, certainly.

    Hmm...interesting. Though, it conflicts with Trample. Maybe Improved Overrun and a special attack that works with overruns?
    Why would there be a conflict? Races of Faerun treats centaurs as mounted people for purposes of qualifying for Trample and Spirited Charge. It'd be along the same lines and, it just occurred to me, instead of superheating, they just hit with more hooves, meaning more fire damage.

    As I mentioned, it's really the flavor part of simulating sleep paralysis. It's odd that the actual Nightmare doesn't use this (I mean, it's name should provoke some sort of sleep ability, yet it lacks it). Might remove Deep Slumber, since it's mostly to evoke the flavor of the actual Nightmare rather than the D&D version (really, why does it lack that?). Reminds me of what I might want to do if I have the time to deal with the Nightmare through retooling; flaeming hooves and ember arrows should be enough.
    Single grapple beasts don't tend to work very well against parties, anyways, unless they can handle that -20 for single hand grapples or can pick up Multigrab or whatever the feat is that reduces the penalty to -10.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Actually I was editing my post (several times to fix errors I made) when you posted so some of the things you mention are fixed in my stat block as well.
    This is precisely why I won't critique on monsters using your format. It is way to easy to overlook things and get them wrong. For example, I missed the low-light vision and javelin. There is a reason the SRD uses the format I prefer. It makes it a lot easier to see everything on one line.

    Attack Options are Special Attacks just renamed. So you have 2.

    CR estimator: 33/4.5= 6; AC=16 not 14 so that is +6; It has 2 special attacks (aligned charge and powerful charge). Special Qualities that count: Darkvision 60 ft., Low-light vision, Maiden Affinity, Resistance to Charm, Compulsion and Poison, Spell-like abilities for 7.

    6 +6, +2 +7= 21/3=7.

    The unicorn has a higher CR using VT's guide, but VT's guide is only a rough estimate. I suspect the unicorn's low CR is based on the fact in combat most of its abilities are useless. It's a talking horse that can do nice things. CR 3 about sums it up.

    Spell-like abilities are not usually special attacks, they are special qualities. Spells are special attacks. Since none of the spell-like abilities are powerful enough to warrant an adjustment, I just grouped them together.

    Realistically it has CR 7 but because it has some watered down abilities and low HD, 6 is probably more accurate.

    The problem is assigning VT's calculator to existing monsters. It isn't accurate enough. I only use it on homebrew for quick assessment. Sometimes I ignore special qualities that come from a creature's Type altogether when trying to figure out CR. All Monstrous Humanoids have darkvision 60 feet as a Trait.

    New critique

    It looks good to me :-)

    Also, if you don't mind making 2 stat blocks it would be great. I always miss stuff when I'm going back and forth. Really, the old format makes it a LOT easier to critique. That is why it is used in the contests. I am sure the newer stat block is easier for DMing so I do understand your preference for it.
    Oddly enough, it seems the calculation is kinda off in terms of AC. As much as I can see, it's 10 as base, +1 for every +5 to AC, -1 for every -5. Thus, AC 16 would be 10 + 5 + 1, which would be 0 (for base 10) plus 1 (for the first 5 points of AC), so it'd be +1. Unless it's meant to be read directly, it should be 6 (HP average) +1 (AC) +2 (Special attacks) +7 (Special qualities), for a grand total of 16, which divided by 3 would result on CR 5.

    The reason I treated the spell-like abilities as special attacks rather than special qualities is because Tribble places a range between +1 to +5 on spell-like abilities specifically on the place of special attacks. I went as intended, and while I do recognize spell-like abilities count as special qualities in this instance (none is used for combat), that part of the calculator is really off.

    Yet, and this is the big "yet", the result for the Unicorn worries me a lot. It's essentially a CR four points higher than the norm, even considering a few things that might reduce that CR at least one point. So it's not really mildly accurate, but wildly inaccurate (that's nearly a 50% margin of error). While I don't trust the CR system on D&D either, considering the following things it should fall right between CR 3, plus or minus 1:
    1. The official CR boundaries for both Centaur and Unicorn are CR 3. Thus, if the creature is meant to be in-between the Centaur (the lower boundary) and the Unicorn (the upper boundary), you could define that the Aegipartaures should be within CR 3 as well. Note: this does not recognize that the two margins are absolutely correct, but they serve as a good gauge.
    2. The upper boundary creature's abilities (those of the Unicorn) are reduced in power. The lack of immunities and Magic Circle against Evil significantly reduce its defenses, and they have natural armor bonus one higher than the lower boundary creature (the Centaur), so their AC defenses and immunities are directly affected. Out of their non-AC defenses, they have a pretty good set (Reflex and Will are high, Fortitude is low but high Con balances that out). The only defenses are against poison (which is rather good), charms and compulsions (which are extremely good, requiring a DC 20 in order to allow a 50% chance of failure), but that's strictly worse than outright immunities (it's as good as having them, though).
    3. Their combat capabilities, on the other hand, somewhat exceed those of the lower AND upper boundary creatures. A large longsword adds 2 points of average damage over that of the scimitar, but Powerful Charge adds a gore attack dealing pretty much the longsword damage. This bypasses both the highest potential damage of the centaur (whose large longsword would deal 2 points but it can't use a charge) and the unicorn (which has a +3 magic horn but otherwise it can only use the horn or its full attack). So that's one point in which they are superior to their parent creatures.
    4. Their HP is somewhere between the Centaur and the Unicorn, though it's on the lower side of the equation (being a d8, meaning they should rely on ranged attacks). That, combined with the lack of a proper ranged weapon (javelins notwithstanding, their maximum range is certainly affected), so while they're good at melee, they're not so much at ranged where they gain an advantage.


    So, if used on melee with all buffs, they could certainly be a CR 4 character, but otherwise they may be a CR 2 or CR 3 character. Not the best estimate, but perhaps a reasonable one. It is certainly a problem for melee characters at level 3, but not much of a challenge for ranged characters. I just wanted to figure out what would be the CR based on the official forum calculator, since IIRC I heard that the system is more accurate after 10 HD or so (when CR reaches 6 or higher, IIRC).

    I'll do the changes as mentioned, but for ease of revision, I'll probably put the old format visible and the new format spoilered. That, and remove both Aligned Strike (makes no sense) and Powerful Charge (as long as I can figure what to do with the horn aside from tacking it on again).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Why would there be a conflict? Races of Faerun treats centaurs as mounted people for purposes of qualifying for Trample and Spirited Charge. It'd be along the same lines and, it just occurred to me, instead of superheating, they just hit with more hooves, meaning more fire damage.
    I guess I wasn't too clear with that. I was thinking there would be conflict between Trample (the feat) and Imp. Overrun (the feat) because both require more feats than the creature has (Trample requiring Mounted Combat and Imp. Overrun requiring Power Attack). I guess I should provide an overrun option that works exactly as the Trample feat without requiring the latter options, where the opponent cannot choose to avoid you and if it fails the save it takes a hoof attack (with the flaming hooves), in order to keep with their favored tactic.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: [3.5] Hippozoology: a study of horse-based creatures and rare centaur breeds

    Creatures can have Trample as a Special Quality (without the feat).

    Trample

    As a full-round action, a creature with this special attack can move up to twice its speed and literally run over any opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. The creature merely has to move over the opponents in its path; any creature whose space is completely covered by the trampling creature’s space is subject to the trample attack. If a target’s space is larger than 5 feet, it is only considered trampled if the trampling creature moves over all the squares it occupies. If the trampling creature moves over only some of a target’s space, the target can make an attack of opportunity against the trampling creature at a -4 penalty. A trampling creature that accidentally ends its movement in an illegal space returns to the last legal position it occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

    A trample attack deals bludgeoning damage (the creature’s slam damage + 1½ times its Str modifier). The creature’s descriptive text gives the exact amount.

    Trampled opponents can attempt attacks of opportunity, but these take a -4 penalty. If they do not make attacks of opportunity, trampled opponents can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage.

    The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + ½ creature’s HD + creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.
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