Statting a pet?

[Lyra Reynolds]

Question. My female Changeling Rogue has a pet, a red squirrel. He's been with her for many years and throughout many adventures, and he has become her non-human sidekick, so to speak.
He often reacts to whatever is going on in the sessions - he even at one point intimidated an NPC so much the poor guy peed himself (I rolled a 20...). He's kind of a secondary PC to me, and he's so active so often that I actually want to roll a character sheet for him so I can actually apply bonusses for him etc. The problem is, how do I do this?

He's not a familiar - he's not got any magical powers or special bond with my rogue. He's not exactly an animal companion either. He's something of an Empathy Pet, really.

So how would I go about statting him? I'm currenly leaning towards simply rolling a simplified PC sheet, omitting the gear parts and scaling down the ability scores etc.

[Bobby Archer]

I'd suggest using an animal from the MM like a rat for the base stats and abilities and adjusting them to fit your squirrel.

[LibraryOgre]

I'd go with a rat as a base, as well. If your DM is willing, maybe add Expert levels to represent his gain in experience with you.

[Kuma Kode]

I agree. Rat is probably the closest base you'll get to, since they're kinda the same size and both rodents.

Some character sheets actually have a slot for a familiar or animal companion that is essentially a mini sheet with the bare necessities. You may want to see about downloading one of those and printing one out for your rogue, just tacking your little critter onto the end.

Sun Rain Studios has the sexiest 3.5 Character Sheet I have ever laid eyes on, and it has a section for it.

[Lyra Reynolds]

Thanks all, that's very helpful! I looked up the stats for rats and it does look like the best option.

@ Kuma Kode: those sheets are awesome. *bookmarks*

[hamishspence]

A small bonus to Jump, Climb, and Balance might be appropriate.

[eepop]

A companion is ever only 1 leadership feat away.

That said, be cautious moving along this path and confer with your DM often on the subject.

It can be great fun to have another mini-character, especially when it enriches the depth of your primary character. But keep in mind that having two characters can lead to situations where you spend more time in the spotlight than the other players.

We're here for everyone to have fun, and if people start to feel like someone else's secondary character gets more attention than their primary character, they are going to start getting upset. Whether that leads to a conscious eruption of anger, or just an unconscious drift away from the game, neither is good for the health of the game.

I'm definitely not trying to vilify you, as I actually did this myself once, and its only now looking back at it several years later that I realize that I was partly to blame when people started saying "Eh, I don't feel like D&D today, lets do something else!"

Luckily for our game, my pet died in that game (random chance, not specific DM intervention). My character went into mourning, and so did not call another pet immediately. And by the time the character was over it, I had time to realize that my character had plenty to do in game without the pet, so I never got another one.

[Bobby Archer]

While overshadowing the actual PCs can be a danger with pets, familiars, cohorts, etc, I think that in this situation it's less of a worry. Lyra's character's had this pet for a while with (presumably) no ill effects. Also, unlike most animals and followers in D&D, this pet won't have any special abilities or powers, which make it less likely to overshadow another PC.

[Asta Kask]

And a +3 to Climbing rolls, I suppose.

[Lyra Reynolds]

A companion is ever only 1 leadership feat away.

That said, be cautious moving along this path and confer with your DM often on the subject.

It can be great fun to have another mini-character, especially when it enriches the depth of your primary character. But keep in mind that having two characters can lead to situations where you spend more time in the spotlight than the other players.

We're here for everyone to have fun, and if people start to feel like someone else's secondary character gets more attention than their primary character, they are going to start getting upset. Whether that leads to a conscious eruption of anger, or just an unconscious drift away from the game, neither is good for the health of the game.

I'm definitely not trying to vilify you, as I actually did this myself once, and its only now looking back at it several years later that I realize that I was partly to blame when people started saying "Eh, I don't feel like D&D today, lets do something else!"

Luckily for our game, my pet died in that game (random chance, not specific DM intervention). My character went into mourning, and so did not call another pet immediately. And by the time the character was over it, I had time to realize that my character had plenty to do in game without the pet, so I never got another one.

Oh absolutely! I definitely agree with you there. The same goes imo for regular familiars and animal companions, and PC children (as in, the children of the PC) although those naturally tend to occur less often. :p
My squirrel mostly tend to react together with my Rogue, or he's mentioned as sitting on her shoulder. It's only very rarely that he actively does anything on his own and not together with my Rogue (incidentally, one such time was last session, when my rogue was knocked out). I simply felt like making a sheet for him for those few times when my squirrel does something random that prompts my DM to say "roll [whatever] for that" more or less as a joke, like the Intimidate thing. :)

I eventually decided to combine the stats for the Rat and the Fox Squirrel, with some tweaking.

[Quietus]

One question : Why does it NEED its own stats? Personally, if a player came to me with this, I would simply say "Treat it as an extension of your character. You can teach it tricks, which might let it do minor scouting for you, but if it gets hit once it's dead. Any time it needs to make skill checks, it makes them as though it were you". Seems like a reasonable way to handle this, to me.

[Jeff the Green]

One question : Why does it NEED its own stats? Personally, if a player came to me with this, I would simply say "Treat it as an extension of your character. You can teach it tricks, which might let it do minor scouting for you, but if it gets hit once it's dead. Any time it needs to make skill checks, it makes them as though it were you". Seems like a reasonable way to handle this, to me.

Because allowing a squirrel to find traps like a rogue or intimidate would be a little weird?

[PersonMan]

Because allowing a squirrel to find traps like a rogue or intimidate would be a little weird?

Less weird than it taking a level of Expert and being able to Craft(weapons) or be a Professional(lawyer)?

I think there'd be some limits, but you can always cite the old "looking over your shoulder" thing when someone asks why it can disable traps.

[Jeff the Green]

Less weird than it taking a level of Expert and being able to Craft(weapons) or be a Professional(lawyer)?

I think there'd be some limits, but you can always cite the old "looking over your shoulder" thing when someone asks why it can disable traps.

Except that it's a normal old squirrel (Int 2) and so can't take class levels. And that's more of an "aid other" thing, anyway. If the squirrel had ranks in DD, it could go off on its own and disable traps while the rogue does something else.

[Saintheart]

All up, a better approach than making it a housecat and thereby rendering it lethal to 90% of the planet's population.

[LibraryOgre]

Less weird than it taking a level of Expert and being able to Craft(weapons) or be a Professional(lawyer)?

I think there'd be some limits, but you can always cite the old "looking over your shoulder" thing when someone asks why it can disable traps.

Personally, I like the method of adding NPC class levels to represent training for an animal. Animal and Humanoid HD are roughly comparable (Animal are actually slightly better, because they have 2 good saves, but otherwise, they're identical), and the various classes provide ways to approach improvement without dealing with the rest of the animal upgrade system... to represent increased skill, rather than growing bigger and stronger.

Take, for example, a heavy horse. Mechanically, it is a different beast from a Heavy Warhorse. However, it can also be represented by giving a Heavy Horse a level of Warrior. It gets an additional d8 HD, a +1 BAB, proficiency with barding (i.e. armor), +2 to Fortitude and a 1 skill point (2+Int Penalty, minimum 1). If I want to represent it getting better with time (because it's survived hundreds of battles), I give it more warrior HD.

Yes, I limit the skills it can take; I'd probably limit it from taking any Craft or Profession skills. The horse is going to have problems taking Disable Device or Appraise. But I could see a scarred old warbeast taking Intimidate. And would have no problem with Search, Spot, or Listen.

But this system also provides flexibility. If I have a hunting dog, I might be interested in him taking Expert levels. The HD aren't as good, but the Will save means my dog will throw off charms and the like, and the skill points are high enough that he gets 2 skill points per level, instead of 1, even with the penalty for a 2 int. Aristocrat also makes a good avenue for a warhorse... not quite as martial as warrior, it nonetheless provides armor proficiency, will saves, and a good selection of skills. Again, some of those skills will be useless to a horse, but Intimidate, Sense Motive (i.e. avoiding feints, sizing up opponents), and Bluff are all skills horses DO make use of... and a smart, experienced horse can get better at.

I like the suggestion to just make the squirrel part of your character, alive so long as s/he is alive... but using NPC classes for animal advancement is fairly simple and flexible.

[Bobby Archer]

Personally, I'd shy away from adding NPC levels onto the animal template in this situation. If the pet used as some aspect of a feat like Leadership, I could see putting levels onto it to make it match up with the appropriate cohort or follower levels. In this case, where the pet doesn't come out of a class ability or feat, adding levels just seems to push it toward the point where it will start to draw focus from the other PCs.

[Lyra Reynolds]

Whoa, discussion.

Why does it *need* stats? It doesn't *need* stats, persé. He doesn't really do much to influence the plot, and when we're fighting he mostly hides in my rogue's pocket. I wanted to roll a sheet for him because it sounded like fun and because it seemed useful for those handful of times when my DM asks me to roll for him because it's funny.
Besides, I rolled my Rogue's sheet quite specifically for her; it'd feel weird if her squirrel could use the same amount of skill points for something.

NPC levels to represent training is an interesting idea. I did look into the NPC levels, particularly the Expert levels, but eventually decided not to use them. They seemed more appropriate for a true working animal like a horse or a dog, not so much a squirrel (the only work he does is, say, sneak into a place and carry nothing heavier than a key out; he can't scout because he can't explain what he saw!). So right now his race his Squirrel and his class is Squirrel, too!
I did give him an initiative and base attack bonus, but mostly for show: he has a Bite attack so I thought he needed some attack bonusses too, but like I said he mostly sits the fights out. He has nine skills: Balance, Concentration, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Move Silently and Tumble. :p And two racial feats: Low Light Vision and Scent. :)