Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Strormer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default SP just like PP (magic)

    Right, so I'm not terribly familiar with the 3.5 psionics system, my old DM hated all things psionic and said he would never play with them, but I've been wanting to use a Spell Points system for magic instead of the Spells per Day system and someone told me to try and use the psionics system for any caster class. I don't mind the idea, but I'm not sure how it would work. It seems like its not an even fit. Does anyone have any suggestions?
    Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^

    My Extended Signature, including Homebrew

    Spoiler
    Show
    I am a: Neutral Good Human Druid/Cleric (2nd/1st Level)

    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 11
    Dexterity- 13
    Constitution- 11
    Intelligence- 15
    Wisdom- 14
    Charisma- 13

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2009

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    Well...
    both spells and psionic powers have the same level system (0 through 9), so that is easy enough. You'd have to decide how many pp per level each caster-class gets. The main difference as I see it (I have only a little familiarity with psionics, basically just enough for Eberron games and to run encounters against mindflayers/other physic monsters, but have no experience with a player playing a psionic character), is that all physic classes manifest spontaneously. For the variation on prepared-casters, we would need an alternative set of advantages/disadvantages. Presumably, the wizard would learn more spells than the sorcerer (though still a limited number, unlike the PHB wizard), but get fewer pp/day. This has the potential to work, and could even help reduce the overpowered nature of the wizard (since it could no longer cast every spell in the game).

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Timeless Error's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    A Place with No Time
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    I'd just use psionics and not change a thing except the fluff. Use psions for wizards, wilders for sorcerers, ardents (from the Complete Psionic sourcebook) for clerics, and psychic warriors for druids, or at least something along those lines.
    Hi!
    --Timeless Error, Emerald Knight and Champion of Green in the Playground

    A lot of clutter used to be here. Now it's here. Please click the link and read my extended signature!

    Thanks to the amazing Aruius for my excellent Emerald Knight in Action avatar!

    Legend, an awesome RPG. 1.0 now out!


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gkathellar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Beyond the Ninth Wave
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    ^What he said. But find a wilder fix if you do. And in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Prime32's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ireland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless Error View Post
    I'd just use psionics and not change a thing except the fluff. Use psions for wizards, wilders for sorcerers, ardents (from the Complete Psionic sourcebook) for clerics, and psychic warriors for druids, or at least something along those lines.
    Someone has already done such a "paint job".

    Quote Originally Posted by Strormer View Post
    Right, so I'm not terribly familiar with the 3.5 psionics system, my old DM hated all things psionic and said he would never play with them, but I've been wanting to use a Spell Points system for magic instead of the Spells per Day system and someone told me to try and use the psionics system for any caster class. I don't mind the idea, but I'm not sure how it would work. It seems like its not an even fit. Does anyone have any suggestions?
    The fluff of the standard casters is that they write down a set of instructions involving primitive science that only they can understand, then memorise them in such a way that they forget them after they are followed (unless they memorise them more than once), and cannot choose between casting many weak spells or fewer strong ones.

    Is this really closer to most fictional magic users than "I reshape reality with my will, and I can keep going until I get tired"?
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-07-22 at 07:35 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    Thanks for the mention Prime32, but it's still not finished.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Mann View Post
    It's worse than the time some friends used a silver piece, a platinum piece, a delayed blast fireball and a scroll of passwall to make a nuclear explosion in a game...
    Quote Originally Posted by nagora View Post
    Chatter is usually a sign that it's time to break out the Lego pirates and start firing marbles at each other's ships instead of role playing. Some nights, we're just not in the mood!
    My fantasy/RPG blog A Voyage Into the Fantastic

  7. - Top - End - #7

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    WotC already provided a bunch of options. Take your pick. Spell points being the most obvious, but recharge being interesting too.

    DMs who insist that psionics/ToB are overpowered or "aren't really D&D" are kind of asking for Batman or a druid to come along, though. As noted above, psionics with a very thin coat of paint become a better magic system than the magic system is.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kobold-Bard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    I made a spell points system recently, it makes prepared casters act like the Psionic Erudite.

    I like it.
    Zenithbold-Bard by Lord Raziere | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
    New law: Obey me or you'll be crushed by a MOUNTAIN.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Welknair's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Surrounded by Books
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    I'm surprised that no one has pointed this out.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

    Fourthland: A Game of Abstraction
    Quotes
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

    Extended Homebrewer's Signature

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Strormer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    All of these are quite interesting options and I admit I'm still reading through several of them. I did look at the SP option from UA and so far its still in the lead, but I think I'm going to make something original because my two biggest issues remain no matter what. I want spellcasters to be versatile, unique from caster to caster, not just class to class, and to be able to cast themselves into oblivion if they're not careful. Vitalizing was what got me started on this and I think I'll need to focus on crafting a new system myself.
    Thanks so much for everyone's input!
    Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^

    My Extended Signature, including Homebrew

    Spoiler
    Show
    I am a: Neutral Good Human Druid/Cleric (2nd/1st Level)

    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 11
    Dexterity- 13
    Constitution- 11
    Intelligence- 15
    Wisdom- 14
    Charisma- 13

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    I don't play DDO much, but I know it has a spell point system. Could that be modified to work in D&D?
    The Specialist PrC(WIP) An attempt to make really high skills more useful. I would love it if someone would PEACH.

    "Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Start the game in a tavern. Then have the tavern attacked by horrifically over-CRed monsters and kill them all.
    The real campaign begins when they wake up as spirits, and you pull out the Ghostwalk supplement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drachasor View Post
    The sanity of DMs also varies wildly.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Strormer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    Not sure about DDO, never played myself.
    Incidentally, I just stumbled across a system that I'm working on tweaking and modifying, but that I like a lot. It's actually already based on an older system that they've modified and I think with a little work I could make this system fit very nicely into a simplified but effective system. With a good deal of the mana burn concept I'd already been toying with from UA's SP system I think this is an excellent concept.
    Whoever was the first to start this counting down concept should be applauded. ^_^
    Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^

    My Extended Signature, including Homebrew

    Spoiler
    Show
    I am a: Neutral Good Human Druid/Cleric (2nd/1st Level)

    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 11
    Dexterity- 13
    Constitution- 11
    Intelligence- 15
    Wisdom- 14
    Charisma- 13

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)


  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ernir's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Iceland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    Reluctance did.

    That variant has its... problems, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    I'm surprised that no one has pointed this out.
    And I'm happy someone did!

    (By the way, I re-did the spells to take the new system into account. I don't know of another system that does that. So mine is totally awesome and you should check it out. /selfplug)
    Halfling healer avatar by Akrim.elf.

    My sarcasm is never blue.

    Personal stuff: The Diablo 2 game (DMing), BBCode syntax highlighter for KDE
    CharOp: Lists of Necessary Magic Items
    Homebrew: My proudest achievement, a translation of vancian spellcasting to psionic mechanics. Other brew can be found in my Homebrewer's Extended Signature.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Strormer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: SP just like PP (magic)

    Alright. I've been tweaking that one I mentioned earlier for a bit and I wanted to run it past everyone. I'm still not certain if I want to limit the A Casters to a spells known list or not. Their versatility is just obnoxious at the moment, which is good and bad, but I'm worried they're getting beefed up when I'm really trying to keep these casters at roughly the same power level as the PHB casters.

    Strain system based on this
    Spoiler
    Show

    Every caster has a set Tolerance score.

    Tolerance = Casting ability score + Caster Level (CL) + Constitution modifier

    When spells are cast, casters gain Strain equal to the strain cost of the spell, found on the tables for each class, plus any relevant modifiers. Spells are cast with no roll as long as the casterís Strain is lower than their Tolerance score.

    If a casterís Strain score would equal or exceed their Tolerance score then the caster becomes Strained. Strained casters take a -2 penalty on all checks, saves, and action rolls and can only cast by Vialization (see below). If a strained character would become fatigued, he becomes exhausted instead. If a fatigued character becomes strained he also becomes exhausted. Exhausted casters are unable to cast, regardless of Strain score.

    Vitalization allows casters to exceed their Tolerance score for the purposes of continued casting. If a Strained caster attempts to cast he must roll for the successful casting of his spell. This roll is a Fortitude save against a DC of 10 + the spellís level + the number of Strain the caster currently has in excess of his Tolerance score. If the save is successful the spell is cast normally and the caster takes damage equal to the Strain cost of the spell cast, in addition to adding the same amount to his Strain. If the save is a failure the spell is not cast and the caster takes 1 negative level.

    Optional: If using the botched roll rules, a natural one results in the same effects as a normal failure and the DM may have the spell backfire.
    If a casterís Strain score ever doubles their Tolerance they immediately become exhausted and cannot cast further. If a caster should ever gain a number of negative levels equal to their class level(s), he is immediately slain and his body immolates in arcane fire. A caster slain in such a way can only be brought back to life by a true resurrection spell cast by a suitable cleric.

    A caster recovers from Strain at a rate of half his CL (not to exceed his casting ability score) per hour provided he does not cast, fight, run, or in any other way exert himself and he is not exhausted. Upon completing a full nightís rest, normally 8 hours, he reduces his Strain by an additional amount equal to his casting ability modifier + his Constitution modifier.


    and here are my modified strain cost tables to reduce the number of free spells at high levels from what the original had.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Code:
    	Spell Level (A)									
    CL	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
    1	3	7	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    2	3	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    3	3	6	7	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    4	2	6	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    5	2	5	6	7	-	-	-	-	-	-
    6	2	5	6	6	-	-	-	-	-	-
    7	1	5	5	6	8	-	-	-	-	-
    8	1	4	5	6	7	-	-	-	-	-
    9	1	4	5	5	7	8	-	-	-	-
    10	0	4	4	5	7	7	-	-	-	-
    11	0	3	4	5	6	7	8	-	-	-
    12	0	3	4	4	6	7	7	-	-	-
    13	0	3	3	4	6	6	7	9	-	-
    14	0	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	-	-
    15	0	2	3	3	5	6	6	8	9	-
    16	0	2	2	3	5	5	6	8	8	-
    17	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
    18	0	1	2	2	4	5	5	7	8	8
    19	0	1	1	2	4	4	5	7	7	8
    20	0	1	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
    A Casters include: Arcanists (replacement for Sor/Wiz), Clerics, and Druids.
    Code:
    	Spell Level (B)										
    CL	0	1	2	3	4	5	6
    1	4	-	-	-	-	-	-
    2	4	8	-	-	-	-	-
    3	4	7	-	-	-	-	-
    4	3	7	8	-	-	-	-
    5	3	7	7	-	-	-	-
    6	3	6	7	-	-	-	-
    7	2	6	7	7	-	-	-
    8	2	6	6	7	-	-	-
    9	2	5	6	7	-	-	-
    10	1	5	6	6	8	-	-
    11	1	5	5	6	8	-	-
    12	1	4	5	6	7	-	-
    13	0	4	5	5	7	8	-
    14	0	4	4	5	7	7	-
    15	0	3	4	5	6	7	-
    16	0	3	4	4	6	7	8
    17	0	3	3	4	6	6	7
    18	0	2	3	4	5	6	7
    19	0	2	3	3	5	6	7
    20	0	2	2	3	5	5	6
    B Casters include: BardsÖ yeah, thatís all.
    Code:
    	Spell Level (C)										
    CL	0	1	2	3	4
    1	-	-	-	-	-
    2	-	-	-	-	-
    3	-	-	-	-	-
    4	-	8	-	-	-
    5	-	7	-	-	-
    6	-	7	-	-	-
    7	-	7	-	-	-
    8	-	6	-	-	-
    9	-	6	8	-	-
    10	-	6	7	-	-
    11	-	5	7	8	-
    12	-	5	7	7	-
    13	-	5	6	7	-
    14	-	4	6	7	8
    15	-	4	6	6	7
    16	-	4	5	6	7
    17	-	3	5	6	7
    18	-	3	5	5	6
    19	-	3	4	5	6
    20	-	2	4	5	6
    C Casters include: well, nothing in my setting. I took away the Paladin (replaced it with the Knight from PHB2 because I was sick of Lawful Stupid players trying to govern the party via Paladin levels. If itís going to start an argument at the table so often I feel itís disruptive, I donít want it.) and my update to the ranger replaces his spellcasting with a full progression animal companion, mostly for flavor. I added the table just to flesh out what Iíd done with the others in case someone wanted to make the costs a little harsher than the original did.


    Not a lot of changes. Most were either to make casters have a few less spells to toss around at high level (I cannot comprehend free fireballs, even if it is high level play) and fluff related (like using a negative level to show the caster's life-force burning away instead of ability damage). Incidentally, I'm using Warlocks as a replacement for Sorcerer since they would not worry about Strain and I always liked the Warlock class, so the Arcanist is more-or-less a catchall for Wizards and Sorcerers that I'll hammer out once I feel this system is good to go. As of right now, think of them like Wizards.

    Thanks so much to Nonsi for the inspiration, and to all of you for your help with this.
    Last edited by Strormer; 2011-07-24 at 08:02 PM.
    Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^

    My Extended Signature, including Homebrew

    Spoiler
    Show
    I am a: Neutral Good Human Druid/Cleric (2nd/1st Level)

    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 11
    Dexterity- 13
    Constitution- 11
    Intelligence- 15
    Wisdom- 14
    Charisma- 13

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •