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    Totally Guy's Avatar

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    Default Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    It's quite a simple concept; you play a flaw that you have on your sheet and you gain some kind of metagame reward.

    World of Darkness does it with Virtues and Vices. You play them to regain Willpower.
    Mouse Guard does it with traits. You hinder yourself with a trait to get more downtime after a mission.
    Burning Wheel does it with traits and instincts.
    Cortex does it too with plot points. I had a Firefly guy who kept running with "Things don't go smooth".
    Fate has its fate point economy. The GM offers you points to compel your characters aspects.

    What other games have you seen that does this? Tell us about times this has really enhanced the game.

    This thing isn't appropriate to all games. In one of the optimisation threads there was talk of a wizard with vertigo. Some said it was compelling others said it was irresponsible. I think the distinction is whether the game is about how the wizard's fear of flying interacts with himself and his friends on their journey or if the game is about a band of heroes stopping the evil bad guy.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    In my game, I give my players Cool Points. It rewards active cooperation, creative use of spells and skills and stuff, planning, doing just plain cool stuff that entertains everyone, and - most relevantly here - "roleplaying to your disadvantage". This means doing something that, out of character, you know to be a bad idea or less ideal or otherwise disadvantageous, but which makes perfect sense to do in-character. They might, say, choose to give all your left-over money to a needy orphanage. Or maybe, out of character, they know that a particular NPC is exactly the sort of shady character the party should be suspicious of, but their character is the sort of person who would trust them completely, putting themself at a disadvantage when the NPC inevitably backstabs them.
    The Cool Points are worth roughly 1000gp each, and can be cashed in for particular items, concessions, plot-points, or pretty much whatever they want. For example, once we came across a strange door in the dungeon. When they opened it one way, it showed a broom closet. Opened the other way, it had a doorway to the next room. The Rogue was excited by this tricksy door, and nicked it. Trouble was, the door by itself wasn't the least bit magical. It was the combination of the doorway and the door. But he really, really wanted it to be something special. So I thought about it and looked at the number of Cool Points he had (quite a few, he was one of my most creative players). I can't remember the exact numbers or abilities, but basically I said that if he spent so many of his Cool Points, the door would have such-and-such an ability, and so many it'd have such and such, and so on. The highest, I think, was that it was basically a portable Gate. I think he went for a Passwall effect.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    NWoD actually does this with flaws as well. A flaw is a characteristic which hinders your character, the effect of adding it to your character sheet is that you get extra experience points after every setting where it comes up.

    I read about a hero point system for D&D as well, i do not remember where. The gist of it was that when players did something suitably heroic, they were awarded hero points, which they could then use to make cool actions work.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Uh... Not really relevant, cuz it's a computer game, but the Exile games let you take a bunch of disadvantages which gave you extra experience (and/or advantages, which docked it).

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    PDQ (Prose Descriptive Qualities)
    Every character, whether PC or NPC has a Foible, this Foible can be activated by either the player or the GM in to place a disadvantage onto the character, in return they get a Style Dice which are used like Fate/Action/Cool points in other games.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    In a way Gurps - the guidelines for GM to give points for sessions state that extra points should be given acting in character. So acting according to your mental disads should reward you some points.

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    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    In Ars Magica 5e, most of the flaws worked out to "Stories you want your character to be involved in". If you had a Diabolic apprenticeship, you were asking to be included in any stories involving demons. There were some game-level social impacts to this, as well... obviously, if your parens was judged a diabolist, nobody was going to trust YOU too much, especially not the quaesitores.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    In Exalted, Limit breaks let you recover a Willpower point once it's over.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Guy View Post
    Fate has its fate point economy. The GM offers you points to compel your characters aspects.
    Houses of the Blooded uses the same aspect mechanic, with minor modifications. Tagging or compelling someone's aspect transfers a style point from the tagger/compeller to the tagged/compelled (and of course the GM Narrator has an infinite pool of style points).
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Weapons of the Gods give characters Destiny (XP) every time one of their Disadvantages _really_ messes things up for them. I believe 7th Sea works similarly.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Mutants and Masterminds gives hero points for complications.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    In my game, I give my players Cool Points. It rewards active cooperation, creative use of spells and skills and stuff, planning, doing just plain cool stuff that entertains everyone, and - most relevantly here - "roleplaying to your disadvantage".
    I do the same thing, but I call them Style Points.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by Volt View Post
    In Exalted, Limit breaks let you recover a Willpower point once it's over.
    Technically, you recover (associated Virtue) Willpower points.

    Also, Paranoia had a deal with Perversity Points, which you can spend to affect a die roll. You got them for acting sneaky, or RPing your character's foibles, or dramatically executing one of your teammates for being a traitor, or if your GM's just feeling whimsy, even.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    A horror game some friends of mine put together called Devil's in the Details (currently being expanded into Dramatis, a multi-genre rules-light system), had players choose to take Disadvantages. The player could then choose to apply the disadvantage to an important roll, taking a penalty to that roll but getting a Character Point in return, which they could later spend to maximize die rolls. Most players never applied their Disadvantages, but a few hoarded up Character Points with them.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    I always use stunts when I'm DM. The more immersive the storytelling of the player basically, the more stunt points awarded.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    The system I'm making has a huge system for "Favor" points, which act much as the Cool/Fate/Style Points previously described. An interesting facet is that you can lose Favor, even going into Negative Favor. At which point the DM can choose to spend your negative favor for bad things to happen to you.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    I sort of do this; my players get one "plot point" every time they level up; they can spend it to declare something about the game world (without contradicting established facts), such as introducing a new contact or adding a prop to a scene. They can get more points in a couple of ways:

    1) Most commonly, I'll offer a plot point if the player goes with a certain course of action, sort of like in Fate. It might be to gently suggest that their character might do things a certain way, or it might be because I haven't planned on what they initially wanted to do. Or, if I feel a bit sadistic, I might offer the entire group a plot point to not be genre savvy and do things the hard way.

    2) They can get one as a sort of "Roleplaying Oscar." If a player manages to stay in character for most of a session, or manages to visibly move the rest of the group, they get a plot point.

    3) After each session, the group (including me) votes on the session's most valuable player. The winner gets a plot point.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Star Wars does this with force points, sort of.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Nobilis (3rd ed, I think) has Afflictions and... something else. Afflictions are things that happen to you, and the other thing is what you prefer to do, like a habit or what have you. When either of them come up you get Miracle Points back. This is amusing if you have an affliction of "Those I am close to are in danger", for example.

    Edit: I should explain miracle points. See, you can do miracles of aspect,(superhuman skill/ability, but basically human++. Fighting an army? aspect.), dominion (control of your Estate. Everyone is a god of something. The power of Staples could make or destroy staples. A big enough miracle could staple reality in place.), Persona(also related to Estate, but more nebulously focused on the properties of it. If staples are "used to hold things together", you could use Persona to hold a couple together), and Treasure (sweet loot. A sword that cuts time? Treasure). You have a starting ranking in each of the four attributes, and if you want to push and do bigger things it takes miracle points.
    Last edited by Glimbur; 2011-08-05 at 10:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    The Shadow of Yesterday does this with its Keys system. It is the one and only source of experience points in the game.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    savage worlds has you take "complications" or drawbacks, or whatever the specific term they use is.

    these are mostly roleplay applications, but if you stick to it, even/especially when it is detrimental to do so. the DM typically rewards you with an extra benny.

    like the time I wasted all my ammunition freeing hostages.....
    instead of running away from the alien wrath about to fall upon my head.

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    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Actually, I'll also throw in HackMaster. Not playing your quirks and flaws results in a hit to your honor (and your honor can give you bonuses or even rerolls), while playing them to the hilt is a cue for the DM to give you more honor.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Uh... Not really relevant, cuz it's a computer game, but the Exile games let you take a bunch of disadvantages which gave you extra experience (and/or advantages, which docked it).
    If I recall correctly, in some/many of spiderweb software's games some of the flaws (or your actions during the story that inflicted character flaws on you) affect dialogue options in occassional instances. Probably more notable in the Geneforge series and the earlier Avernum (remade Exile) games with a reputation stat. Oh, and Nethergate - I seem to recall that there were traits that made the fair folk nicer to you or despise you (the latter not being a good idea at all if you were playing the celts).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    In Ars Magica 5e, most of the flaws worked out to "Stories you want your character to be involved in". If you had a Diabolic apprenticeship, you were asking to be included in any stories involving demons. There were some game-level social impacts to this, as well... obviously, if your parens was judged a diabolist, nobody was going to trust YOU too much, especially not the quaesitores.
    That some things that could be considered virtues, like kindness and bravery, were considered flaws for this reason was always something I thought was neat and interesting about Ars Magica 5e.

    Given that you're (possibly) playing wizards who want to spend most of their time sequestered in their laboraties it makes a lot of sense though.
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    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by rayne_dragon View Post
    That some things that could be considered virtues, like kindness and bravery, were considered flaws for this reason was always something I thought was neat and interesting about Ars Magica 5e.

    Given that you're (possibly) playing wizards who want to spend most of their time sequestered in their laboraties it makes a lot of sense though.
    There is a special title appended to the names of brave wizards. I won't say it's hard to get, but brave wizards get it far sooner than anyone else.

    "The late".
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by rayne_dragon View Post
    That some things that could be considered virtues, like kindness and bravery, were considered flaws for this reason was always something I thought was neat and interesting about Ars Magica 5e.
    One could say that anything that limits your character is a flaw. This is why, for example, in GURPS Honesty is a flaw. This can lead in to a big game design discussion about whether roleplay choices should have mechanical benefits or drawbacks... I think that if it has a mechanical drawback then an attempt to balance it with a benefit can be appropriate. Continuing with Honesty, if I recall correctly it gives you a penalty to skill checks to lie, and therefore it gives extra build points for other things. This can lead to characters taking flaws to be better at other things which is either a) a reward for making a character with benefits and disadvantages like a real person or b) an open invitation for power-gaming.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    CALL OF CTHULHU !!

    There's no other game where playing flaws can be more rewarding than in Chaosium's materpiece.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagesto View Post
    CALL OF CTHULHU !!

    There's no other game where playing flaws can be more rewarding than in Chaosium's materpiece.
    Getting to 0 SAN isn't supposed to be a race, you know.
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Continuing with Honesty, if I recall correctly it gives you a penalty to skill checks to lie, and therefore it gives extra build points for other things. This can lead to characters taking flaws to be better at other things which is either a) a reward for making a character with benefits and disadvantages like a real person or b) an open invitation for power-gaming.
    This sounds like a direct opposite of what I was describing. When you have this "take a flaw to get an advantage" what tends to happen is that you take flaws that'll have a low impact in order to gain something you wouldn't otherwise have;
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    I'm talking about games in which you are encouraged to take flaws that will impact play over ones which are unlikely to come up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Almagesto View Post
    CALL OF CTHULHU !!

    There's no other game where playing flaws can be more rewarding than in Chaosium's materpiece.
    Can you explain further. I've not seen this behaviour in play.
    Last edited by Totally Guy; 2011-08-07 at 01:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    ICONS spring to mind.
    All characters have a number of effort points, these can be spend to do cool stuff but only if you can tag a one of your advantages. The GM can tag your disadvantage and bring in bad stuff for you, which you can chose to reject at the cost of effort, or accept, to gain effort.

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    Default Re: Games in which playing your flaws rewards you

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Getting to 0 SAN isn't supposed to be a race, you know.
    It's not? No, I'm not serious... although...
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