Craft (alchemy) and special (non-magical) gear... ?

[nonsi]

Does anyon know of any house rules regarding the use of Craft (alchemy) and Special Substances And Items ?
• Acid
• Alchemist’s Fire
• Antitoxin
• Smokestick
• Sunrod
• Tanglefoot Bag
• Thunderstone
• Tindertwig


EDIT:

Taking Ziegander's suggestion into consideration, I'm elaborating on what I'm looking for.

Indeed I'm looking for rules for creation of items with miscellaneous alchemical effects.
Also, given 5gp more or less to the price tag of an item don't really have significant gameplay consequences, I'm more interested in Craft DCs and creation time (which I have no idea how to begin assessing).

[Melayl]

Ask and ye shall recieve.

[nonsi]

Ask and ye shall recieve.

So I guess that's a "NO" then, because your request (which is basically an elaboration of mine) was left unfulfilled by Rei_Jin (unless there's a chapter-2 thread for the one you linked).

As for the things Rei_Jin addressed - well, ATM (for various reasons) they interest me less.

[Ziegander]

You asked if anyone knew of any house rules for Alchemical substances. He provided a link with pretty extensive house rules on the subject. Maybe instead of being a brat about it, you should actually elaborate in your opening post what you're specifically looking for.

[Fizban]

I've seen a few around here, and I see someone else has already got to linking. Here's what I do, based on the fact that the game prices everything according to spell formulae:

Figure out what effect you want. Now find a spell that does the same thing, probably 1st or 2nd level, maybe 3rd if you're making a really big bomb. The price of the alchemical version is the same price as a single wand charge of the spell, or spell level*caster level*15gp. Most alchemical items are either grenadelike, or are spread over an area or the like, and durations for combat effects are usually no more than 5 rounds, possibly randomized. Truncate any durations and adjust the price up or down a few gp depending on how good you think it is so it doesn't look like you used a formula to design it. Finally, assign it some sort of weight (probably between one and four pounds), and presto, you have yourself a new alchemical item.

Examples:
Acid: lv1*CL1*15=15gp, dropped to 10gp cause it's very short range (Magic Missile, Lesser Orb, or other 1st level damage spell).
Alchemist's fire: lv1*CL1*15=15 gp, increased to 20gp cause the burning's pretty good (Ray of Flame).
Smokestick: lv1*CL1*15=15gp, increased to 20gp because you can center it away from yourself (Obscuring Mist)
Tanglefoot Bag: lv2*CL3*15= 90gp, reduced to 50gp because the designers don't realize it's broken awesome, or maybe because it only targets one person (Web).

To improve items, just increase the "caster level." What this basically amounts to for acid and alchemist's fire is that you add double the standard price for each extra die. So for every extra die of acid damage you pay 20gp, or for fire damage you pay 40gp (if you're charging 40gp per die then the second round damage should also increase).

[nonsi]

@Fizban: Seems decent. Thanks. Maybe I'll get lucky and the inspiration will land on me to make these into a more concrete formula.

@Ziegander: You're misinterpreting my reply. Please re-read the OP, then re-read Melayl's request (post 24), then re-read my reply. Melayl articulated my request better than I did (he didn't get what he was looking for). That's all I said.

[Ziegander]

@Ziegander: You're misinterpreting my reply. Please re-read the OP, then re-read Melayl's request (post 24), then re-read my reply. Melayl articulated my request better than I did (he didn't get what he was looking for). That's all I said.

No, actually, you seem to be misinterpreting your original post. Your original post asks for house rules for alchemical items and the Craft (Alchemy) skill. Then you were given a link that supplied exactly that, but you declared it to be unsatisfactory.

If you're actually looking for alternative rules governing the creation of items with "miscellaneous alchemical effects" you should amend your original post to say that so that the next person who wants to try and help you actually has any idea what you want.

I mean, Melayl didn't even make a proper request in that thread, but yes he did do a better job articulating what he was looking for than you are currently. Let the forum members know what you want, in your OP, or you'll get nowhere.

[nonsi]

The OP has been updated, so if anyone feels some inspiration coming, please share your thoughts.

[Melayl]

I took no offense at nonsi's reply. It is true that Rei Jin's rules don't cover everything (like tindertwigs, antitoxins, and sunrods), but they can replicate the effect of everything else in the original-original () post.

He hasn't yet followed-up on my request in that thread, but iirc, he did state his intention to do that when he had finished other things. I'll be patient and wait.

[Fizban]

DCs and creation times for alchemical items are exactly the same as normal non-magical items, under the craft skill. Just assign a DC for new items by comparing them to the existing, in increments of 5. The DC for making the item will tell you how much bonus you'll need to take 10, then just assume you're taking 10 on every roll and figure out how long it will take to craft. It'll probably be quite a while. Crafting Alchemist's Fire by taking 10 with a +10 on the craft roll will take five days, at the rate of DC 20* check result 20* 0.01gp = 4gp per day. Acid will actually take longer since the craft DC is only 15 (I guess the lower DC means that instead of skill you're just waiting for things to brew?).

If you want to make your own rules so people can actually craft their own items in a reasonable amount of time, you could do a number of things. Replacing the item's DC* check result with just (check result)^2 will let you craft everything at the same gp/day rate. Multiplying the daily check by gold pieces instead of copper pieces will obviously increase the rate by 100 times, allowing our example +10 bonus character to craft 20 flasks of alchemist's fire in a day (about two and a half gallons). Or you could just keep copying magic mechanics and say that non-magical or alchemical item crafting automatically occurs at a rate of 100gp per day.

[nonsi]

DCs and creation times for alchemical items are exactly the same as normal non-magical items, under the craft skill. Just assign a DC for new items by comparing them to the existing, in increments of 5. The DC for making the item will tell you how much bonus you'll need to take 10, then just assume you're taking 10 on every roll and figure out how long it will take to craft. It'll probably be quite a while. Crafting Alchemist's Fire by taking 10 with a +10 on the craft roll will take five days, at the rate of DC 20* check result 20* 0.01gp = 4gp per day. Acid will actually take longer since the craft DC is only 15 (I guess the lower DC means that instead of skill you're just waiting for things to brew?).

If you want to make your own rules so people can actually craft their own items in a reasonable amount of time, you could do a number of things. Replacing the item's DC* check result with just (check result)^2 will let you craft everything at the same gp/day rate. Multiplying the daily check by gold pieces instead of copper pieces will obviously increase the rate by 100 times, allowing our example +10 bonus character to craft 20 flasks of alchemist's fire in a day (about two and a half gallons). Or you could just keep copying magic mechanics and say that non-magical or alchemical item crafting automatically occurs at a rate of 100gp per day.

These are all very good points and ideas to think about.
Thank you very much

I'll re-read the skill's description and see how your ideas reflect on things.

One thing that immediately comes to mind is that except for Everburning torch & Holy water, the Special Substances And Items shouldn't require any spellcasting background.