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    Lightbulb You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Gunslinger


    [1]

    “I deal only in steel.”

    "First comes smiles, then comes lies. Last is gunfire."

    “I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my eye.

    I do not shoot with my hand; He who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I shoot with my mind.

    I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart.”
    ~Roland Deschain, human Gunslinger, Walker of the Wastes


    Gunslingers are the protectors of the citizenry of world. They go places, and see things, that the paladins who fight against evil or the priests who pray to their gods, could never imagine. They travel all across the world, destroying what evil they find, and protecting those who cannot protect themselves and who try to live their lives through the savage and harsh times.

    Gunslingers are sworn to an oath to destroy evil and protect the harmony of the world. They care not about race, or the amount of money a person may have. They care not even for wars between countries, and are just as willing to protect a human, dwarf, elf, orc, or even a goblin or other monstrous humanoid, providing those creatures are not evil.

    BECOMING A GUNSLINGER
    Becoming a Gunslinger boils strictly down to having another Gunslinger train you until he considers you ready for Gunslinger-dom. It is truly a process unique to the Gunslinger who undertakes it, and very personal for both involved.

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Base Attack Bonus: +4
    Skills: Diplomacy 9 ranks
    Feats: Ranged Smite or Sighted Challenge or Touch Spell
    Alignment: Any Non-Evil
    Special: Must have the Smite special ability, or the ability to cast 3rd level divine spells, or the Fighting Challenge special ability
    Special: Must be trained as a Gunslinger by another Gunslinger

    Class Skills
    The Gunslinger's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Survival (Wis).
    Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int

    Hit Dice: d10

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |Path of Word or Gun, Steady Hands, Gunslinger’s Oath

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    |Fan the Hammer, Guns of the Patriarch

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    |The Flow of Ka, Trapfinding, Second Step

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +4
    |
    +2
    |Sharpshooter’s Eyes

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +3
    |Twisting Form

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +5
    |
    +3
    |The Winds of Ka, Third Step

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +4
    |Path of the White

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +6
    |
    +4
    |Instant Reload

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +6
    |
    +4
    |Perfect Calm, Fourth Step

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +7
    |
    +5
    |Reincarnation
    [/table]

    Weapon Proficiencies: The Gunslinger gains proficiency with all non-exotic ranged weapons and one exotic ranged weapon of his choice, but gains no proficiency with any armor or shields.

    Gunslinger’s Oath: The Gunslinger makes a vow as part of his training that has the basic tenets of Gunslinger belief.

    The oath states that the Gunslinger will do anything in his power in order to protect an innocent. If there is more than one innocent in danger, the Gunslinger must try to protect both, to the best of his abilities. That is all the basic oath states. Violating the oath causes the Gunslinger to lose any supernatural powers that he has gained from this class for a period of 24 hours. This oath supersedes and replaces any other class based oaths or codes that the Gunslinger might have.

    Path of Word or Gun (Ex): The Gunslingers are formed of two branches, those who follow the word, and those who follow the gun. In truth, both use the guns, but the path of words uses magic in addition, in order to protect, while the path of gun uses the power of their sharpshooting hands to slay evil. If the Gunslinger was able to cast divine spells before entering this class, he may choose to progress his casting, instead of his long-arm prowess. At every level besides first and tenth, he adds a level to the levels of the divine casting class he was in before entering this class for the purposes of spells per day (and spells known, if applicable). He gains no other benefits of gaining a level in that class. If he had more than one divine spellcasting class before entering the Gunslinger class, he must choose which class gains the benefits of each level.

    The Gunslinger may instead choose, however, to follow the path of the gun. If he does so, he reduces the penalties for offhand attacks made with the Two-Weapon Fighting line of feats by 1 point per class level, and gains a bonus to all ranged damage rolls equal to his Charisma modifier. Any time the Gunslinger makes a ranged full attack against a single creature, he may choose to force that creature to make a (DC 10 + Gunslinger levels + Charisma modifier) Will save or become unable to attack (with magic or physically) any creature besides the Gunslinger for 3 rounds. He may only have this ability active on one creature at a time.

    Paladins who enter this class progress Smite Evil as if they gained Paladin levels at every odd Gunslinger level. Knights who enter this class progress Fighting Challenge and Test of Mettle at the same rate.

    He progresses another step at third level and every three levels thereafter.

    Second Step: The Path of the Gun Gunslinger gains a +4 Enhancement bonus to Dexterity and Strength, as well as a +3 Competency bonus to Survival checks.
    The Path of the Word Gunslinger gains a +4 Enhancement bonus to Charisma and Wisdom, as well as a +3 Competency bonus to all Diplomacy checks.
    These are supernatural effects.

    Third Step: The Path of the Gun Gunslinger may make a Combat Maneuver as a ranged attack, as a full round action. A Combat Maneuver is defined as in Pathfinder, or as a Bull Rush, Disarm, Feint, Grapple, Sunder, or Trip attempt. He may not use this ability to Grapple. After using this ability, the Gunslinger must wait 5 rounds before using it again.
    The Path of the Word Gunslinger may cast a spell as part of a ranged attack, as a full action. The spell must have a range of touch, and cannot be a personal spell. If the Gunslinger uses this ability on his allies, it deals no damage. If used on opponents, it deals normal damage. After using this ability, the Gunslinger must wait 5 rounds before using it again.
    These are supernatural effects.

    Fourth Step: The Path of the Gun Gunslinger can shoot his enemies, no matter the angle, no matter the cover, and with precise accuracy. However, doing so is incredibly tiring, and the ultimate technique of the Gunslingers. Starting at tenth level, the Gunslinger may, once per day, as a full round action, make a single ranged attack roll, and use it against every enemy within 100 feet of himself. These attacks do not consume ammunition. Any attack that connects deals double normal damage. This attack ignores cover and concealment. However, in the process of this attack, the Gunslinger becomes exhausted, as the condition, for the rest of the encounter.
    The Path of the Word Gunslinger may dominate the minds of others. Doing so is exhausting. As a full round action, once per day, the Gunslinger may force all creatures within 30 feet to make a Will save (DC 10 + Gunslinger levels + Charisma modifier) or become Dominated, as the spell, until the end of the encounter, under the Gunslinger's control. They may make a Will save every round to break out of the effect. He must concentrate every round that they are dominated. If he takes any damage, he must make a Concentration check equal to the damage or lose concentration and lose control of the dominated creatures. After the encounter ends, the domination remains for up to an hour afterward. After using this ability, the Gunslinger becomes exhausted for the rest of the encounter, and one hour afterward.
    These are supernatural effects.

    Steady Hands (Ex): Gunslingers are trained to keep their hands steady, even during the most trying of times, so as to hit straight. This is one of the first, and also most important lessons that a gunslinger learns. The Gunslinger may, once per round take 10 on a single ranged attack roll, and may also take 10 on Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand checks, even when under extreme duress such as during combat.

    Fan the Hammer (Ex): A secret Gunslinger trick that allows the gunslinger to shoot rapidly, more rapidly than the eye can follow, and also allows the Gunslinger to use more than one gun, without losing his accuracy to falter. Starting at second level, the Gunslinger may reload his ranged weapon as a swift action, given he has the necessary ammunition, no matter how his hands are occupied. He may use this ability in the middle of his full attack, if necessary. In addition, he may make an additional attack at his highest attack bonus whenever he makes a full attack. This extra attack does not stack with other effects that grant extra attacks, unless they are given by Gunslinger class abilities. All other attacks in that attack action take a -1 penalty to the Attack Roll.

    Guns of the Patriarch (Su): The Gunslinger's guns are passed down from generation to generation, from father to son (or mother to daughter). They are encrusted with mud and blood from the battles in which they have fought, and their spirit grows with that of their wielder. Starting at second level, the Gunslinger gains a gun or ranged weapon that he is proficient with, either found, passed down, given, or stolen. The weapon increases in power as the Gunslinger does, gaining an enhancement as noted on the following table.
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    {table=head]Level|Enhancement Bonus
    1
    |+1
    2
    |+1
    3
    |+2
    4
    |+2
    5
    |+3
    6
    |+3
    7
    |+4
    8
    |+4
    9
    |+5
    10
    |+5[/table]

    The Gunslinger may pay extra money in order to have his weapons enchanted. The effective bonus can still never reach more than +10. He may have a pair of guns with this effect, but he must split the bonus between them.

    If the Gunslinger's Guns of the Patriarch are destroyed, he may reforge them as a week long ritual, never doing anything other than remaking his weapons. He instinctively knows how to remake them, and needs not make a Craft (Weaponsmithing) check while reforging them.

    Trapfinding (Ex): The Gunslinger can detect traps and other attempts on his life before his eyes can even see them, and disable them with his eternally steady hands. Starting at third level, he gains the effects of the Trapfinding special ability, as the Rogue ability.

    The Flow of Ka (Ex, Sp): Ka, a word that translates to something like “fate”, is the force that guides all Gunslingers, and all of existance. The Gunslinger knows the flow of Ka, and can follow its path with extreme accuracy. Starting at third level, the Gunslinger always knows the location of his Guns of the Patriarch, and he may use the Locate Object spell as a spell like ability, once per hour.

    Sharpshooter’s Eyes (Ex): The Gunslinger’s eyes are specially trained to catch every detail in any situation that is presented to them, careful to look closer than many would think possible. Starting at fourth level, the Gunslinger gains a bonus to all saving throws made against Illusion spells and all Spot checks equal to his Charisma modifier, as well as Low Light Vision. This vision increases to Darkvision out to 30 feet at seventh level. He may, once per day as a standard action, gain the effects of the See Invisibility spell, with a caster level equal to his Character level (this effect is mundane, simply the extremely precise eyesight of the Gunslinger, and cannot be dispelled). The effect only lasts for up to one minute, or until the end of the encounter, whichever comes first. He may use this ability an additional time at tenth level. In addition, the Gunslinger permanently gains the benefits of the Detect Evil spell. This is a supernatural effect. If he already had an ability that granted him the effects of the Detect Evil spell, the range of the spell doubles.

    Twisting Form (Ex): The Gunslinger is able to twist his form to avoid oncoming attacks, and has especially quick reflexes that beggar imagination. Starting at fifth level, the Gunslinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to half his Gunslinger levels, rounded down. Once per encounter, the Gunslinger may, as a swift action, twist and bend, avoiding attacks wherever they come. He gains a 20% miss chance, which increases to a 40% miss chance against ranged attacks. This effect lasts for 1 round. Any attack that misses him (at any time) grants him a +1 Insight bonus to ranged attack rolls made against the target that attacked him, lasting 3 rounds. This bonus is cumulative, but does not refresh the duration. The bonus cannot reach higher than +5 at any time.

    The Winds of Ka (Ex): The Gunslinger has learned to follow his Ka to wherever it takes him. Starting at sixth level, the Gunslinger may move like the wind. As a swift action, he may move up to half of his base land speed. He may use this ability at will. He may not use this ability in the same round as he moves normally.

    Path of the White (Su): The Gunslinger follows the path of the White, that of truth and justice. The Gunslinger, while following a path of death, can reduce the pain and injuries of others through a reassuring touch, a simple word, or a kind look. Starting at seventh level, the Gunslinger may heal one target within 10 feet as a swift action, for a number of hit points equal to the Gunslinger’s Charisma modifier d6 damage. After using this ability, the Gunslinger must wait 1d4 rounds before using it again. The Gunslinger may not heal himself with this ability. The Gunslinger may not use this ability outside of combat. The Gunslinger may not use this ability to heal a creature who has more than half of their hit points remaining.

    Instant Reload (Ex): The Gunslinger is trained to be able to reload as swiftly as possible, faster than may seem possible. Starting at eighth level, he may reload all ranged weapons he is currently wielding as a free action at any time. In addition, he may make an additional attack at his highest attack bonus -5 when he makes a ranged full attack. This extra attack does not stack with other effects that grant extra attacks, unless they are given by Gunslinger class abilities.

    Perfect Calm (Ex): The Gunslinger may make his hands less stable in order to have a chance of hitting his opponent harder, and his calm becomes piercingly frightening. Starting at ninth level, the Gunslinger may automatically make a critical hit on the next ranged attack that he makes that hits a target, a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier. He must still roll to confirm the critical hit. He must actually roll a dice in order to gain this benefit. In addition, he gains a Morale bonus to Intimidate checks, and all Will saves equal to his Charisma modifier.

    Reincarnation (Su): The Gunslinger, having gained his final quest, and his final goal, becomes literally past death. Though death may come to his doorstep upon his bone white horse, it is as an equal, not to come collect. Starting at tenth level, the Gunslinger cannot permanently die. As long as his Gun of the Patriarch remains whole, the Gunslinger regenerates 1d10 days after dying, within 2 miles of his Guns of the Patriarch.

    PLAYING A GUNSLINGER
    Gunslingers play very, very similarly to Paladins or Knights, albeit with guns or ranged weapons. Even the spellcasting Gunslingers still act like a Paladin in general.
    Combat: Most Gunslingers begin and maintain combat from range. They are able to move quite swiftly, and as such may move quite a bit around the battlefield, in addition to their ranged abilities, especially when he gains the Flow of Ka and the Winds of Ka abilities.
    Advancement: Advancement after the Gunslinger class basically amounts to the previous class you had, or a prestige class designed for that class. For instance, a Cleric 6/Gunslinger 10 could take a level of a Divine Spellcasting progression prestige class, or another level of Cleric, although those appear to be the more solid options. Because there are so few ranged prestige classes for the other entry classes, it is mostly likely in the interest of the player to continue with more of the base class levels.
    Resources: The Gunslingers can rely on a large amount of local help, especially from the people they are best known to protect. Most races protect their own people, but they cannot refuse an innocent or good creature in danger.

    GUNSLINGERS IN THE WORLD
    ”Roland, he was a strange one. He blew into town one day, like the winds of fate. He changed us, and although some say not for the better, I think otherwise. We had been having a problem with some local bandits, and he took notice of our problem, and asked the Three, danced his dance, and took care of our problem. He never returned, but we always remember him in our prayers to the Ten.”
    Brother Eustace Or-Tal, priest of Slortar in the hamlet of Hirrias-Mar, by the southern border

    Gunslingers are especially looked up to, especially by peasantry, or those unable to defend themselves. Although the Gunslingers take upon a different role in society based on the path they take, either word or gun, they are still especially respected. Gunslingers of the word tend to become healers or wise men, while those of the gun become protectors and vigilantes, although in the barren lands of the worlds, one could say that there is no justice besides the cold bite of lead.
    Daily Life: Most Gunslingers spend some time of their day practicing with their ranged weapons, be it guns, bows, or even slings (sling wielding Gunslingers are rare, but not unheard of). The name Gunslinger implies only that they follow the path of the Gunslinger and the oath thereof, not that they directly wield guns. The most famous Gunslingers, of Intolar, do wield guns, but they are not the only race.
    Notables: Roland Deschain, Walker of the Wastes, is one of the most famous Gunslingers, at least in the human lands. He has been sighted in just about every smaller town in the outer edge of the human kingdoms. It is said he constantly wanders, searching for his lost love, who died years ago. He has been called cruel, or harsh, but he follows his path relentlessly, and he keeps his oath, no matter the cost.
    Organizations: The Gunslingers, although they used to have an extensive organization, were killed or driven out of work by many factors, most of which being the extensive enemies they racked up. Now they work mostly as solitary peacebringers.

    NPC Reaction
    Gunslingers are almost universally loved by the peasantry that have interacted with them. They are very well regarded all around, as both justice bringers and healers, and they are given the same kinds of respect as Paladins.

    GUNSLINGERS IN THE GAME
    Gunslingers are not an especially strong class, for although they do have a rather strong chassis, including full Base Attack Bonus, good Ref, medium will, a d10 hit dice, the caster section of the class loses two caster levels in order to gain mostly martial benefits, and the martial side of the class remains only martial, with many of their class abilities not even functioning with the Gunslinger class abilities without extra investment (this is intentional).
    Adaptation: This fluff is the more general form of the Zaaman-Rul. Really, a ranged Paladin, Cleric or Knight is kind of already shoehorned into a few key roles, but the fluff isn’t entirely necessary to the concept of the class.
    Encounters: Most encounters with a Gunslinger, unless the party is entirely evil, will be relatively peaceful. The Gunslinger might indeed help the party against a foe if he thought they needed it.
    Last edited by unosarta; 2011-09-27 at 10:19 AM.
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    he may choose to force that creature to make a (DC 10 + Gunslinger levels + Charisma modifier)
    To make a what?

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Steady Hands: Gunslingers are trained to keep their hands steady, even during the most trying of times, so as to hit straight. This is one of the first, and also most important lessons that a gunslinger learns. The Gunslinger may take 10 on all ranged attack rolls, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand checks, even when under extreme duress such as during combat.
    Odd. But not overpowering.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Fan the Hammer (Ex): A secret Gunslinger trick that allows the gunslinger to shoot rapidly, more rapidly than the eye can follow, and also allows the Gunslinger to use more than one gun, without losing his accuracy to falter. Starting at second level, the Gunslinger may reload his ranged weapon as a swift action, given he has the necessary ammunition, no matter how his hands are occupied. He may use this ability in the middle of his full attack, if necessary. In addition, he may make an additional attack at his highest attack bonus whenever he makes a full attack.
    Did you intend for this to only allow two attacks with one gun and one with the other, regardless of Base Attack? Swift actions can only be taken once per round.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Perfect Calm : The Gunslinger’s hands become even more solid and stable, and his calm is piercing, and almost frightening. Starting at sixth level, the Gunslinger may take 15 on all ranged attack rolls, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand checks, even when under extreme duress such as during combat. In addition, he gains a Morale bonus to all saving throws made against fear effects, and against all effects that change the Gunslinger’s emotions (such as the rage spell, the crushing despair spell, etc etc).
    With all the numeric bonuses the gunslinger is getting for his weapons, this seems almost redundant. I'm not sure about the balance on completely doing away with critical failures and always being able to take a pretty good roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Path of the White (Su): The Gunslinger follows the path of the White, that of truth and justice. The Gunslinger, while following a path of death, can reduce the pain and injuries of others through a reassuring touch, a simple word, or a kind look. Starting at seventh level, the Gunslinger may heal one target within 10 feet as a swift action, for a number of hit points equal to the Gunslinger’s Charisma modifier d6 damage. A creature healed in this way may only benefit from this ability once per encounter. The Gunslinger may not heal himself with this ability.
    Free out-of-combat healing better than a cleric or druid? The only other thing I can think of like that is the Dread Necromancer, and that at least requires everyone to be undead.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Rapid Reload (Ex): The Gunslinger is trained to be able to reload as swiftly as possible, faster than may seem possible. Starting at eighth level, he may reload all ranged weapons he is currently wielding as a free action at any time. In addition, he may make an additional attack at his highest attack bonus -5 when he makes a ranged full attack.
    I like this class. The biggest thing that bugs me about it is that you're best off using a bow. The mechanics just say "ranged weapon," so you'd get the most attacks with a bow without needing to expend swift actions (which you only get one of) to reload.

    You may want to link to information about your guns, though. How they function seems kind of pivotal to some of the abilities. I'm assuming they're a move or full-round action to reload normally.

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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    To make a what?
    Will save, I think (it's hard to see exactly where you were quoting).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Odd. But not overpowering
    How is it odd, exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Did you intend for this to only allow two attacks with one gun and one with the other, regardless of Base Attack? Swift actions can only be taken once per round.
    Depends on the gun you use, obviously. I forgot to link the Firearms Rules, which is my bad. They are right here. I will link them in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    With all the numeric bonuses the gunslinger is getting for his weapons, this seems almost redundant. I'm not sure about the balance on completely doing away with critical failures and always being able to take a pretty good roll.
    Getting rid of critical failures means no critical hits, unless you drastically extend the crit range of your weapon, which isn't even remotely possible with the firearm rules. The roll is certainly pretty good yes, but that means that some abilities that the character gets from firearms (most have a pretty okay critical multiplier) is also negated. It is a choice, and the character can always choose to roll instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Free out-of-combat healing better than a cleric or druid? The only other thing I can think of like that is the Dread Necromancer, and that at least requires everyone to be undead.
    Good point. Maybe only allow it to be used in combat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    I like this class. The biggest thing that bugs me about it is that you're best off using a bow. The mechanics just say "ranged weapon," so you'd get the most attacks with a bow without needing to expend swift actions (which you only get one of) to reload.
    I wanted to keep it open to all weapons, since not everyone is going to be using a gun, although they will all need to be proficient with it. The firearm rules, for the most common gun, which is essentially a five-shooter, means you actually don't only get one attack with each gun, but rather 5 attacks with each gun, and can reload the weapon as a swift action, no matter his hands are occupied, so it isn't that bad (you can get 15 attacks a round with those guns, which is unlikely to happen). I have a version on a different thread that is setting specific, although the mechanics are the same, and I have been getting critiques from that, and it might have been boosted in that thread. I will have to copy the other one over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    You may want to link to information about your guns, though. How they function seems kind of pivotal to some of the abilities. I'm assuming they're a move or full-round action to reload normally.
    See above. The rules are move action to reload, and a free action if you have Rapid Reload (the feat), but the Fan the Hammer ability has some other benefits (usable during full attack, no need for a free hand, etc etc).
    Last edited by unosarta; 2011-08-15 at 02:35 AM.
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    The rules are move action to reload, and a free action if you have Rapid Reload (the feat), but the Fan the Hammer ability has some other benefits (usable during full attack, no need for a free hand, etc etc).
    Maybe note the befits it provides to stop it from being a pseudo-dead level?

    Likeing this class though.
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Doorhandle View Post
    Maybe note the befits it provides to stop it from being a pseudo-dead level?

    Likeing this class though.
    Among other things, Fan the Hammer gives you a free extra attack at your highest attack bonus, and says so in the description. That alone is not a dead level.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Good point.

    I updated everything, including some clarifications and skill list updates (because WTF Unosarta, why wasn't spot on that skill list), and I switched around Perfect Calm and Winds of Ka. I still can't think of a good replacement for Perfect Winds, but I will try to sleep on it.
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Okay, I changed the Perfect Calm ability to one that, if you hit the target while rolling the dice, a number of times per day equal to the Gunslinger's Charisma modifier, you may automatically critically hit on that attack, regardless of your critical range. This gives the character interesting choices for as to how he reacts, for he can either go really steady with a lower chance of missing, or go for a harder hitting attack, that does have a chance of missing. Of course, said attack has no effect against creatures who are immune to critical hits, so I am not too sure about it, but it seems okay. Now the only thing I am thinking is if I could change it to a lower level ability, maybe folded into Steady Hands, because they seem to work together so well, and maybe come up with a different ability for the ninth level slot. Ideas?
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Hm.... I just realized something awesome with this class. You can go nova, dual wielding guns, and get nine or so Crits, in one round. Which is totally awesome

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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Without touching on the other abilities, I have to ask, why is a full-BAB class granting an additional +1/level bonus to attack rolls? At that point, you're either hitting on a 2+, or everyone else in your party pretty much needs a 20 to hit. I understand you want an alternative to progressing spellcasting for knights or martial paladins that enter the PrC, but what's the reasoning for such a massive boost to attack rolls?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Lord View Post
    Hm.... I just realized something awesome with this class. You can go nova, dual wielding guns, and get nine or so Crits, in one round. Which is totally awesome
    Oh god, you would run out of ammunition so fast, though.

    I wonder how many attacks they can get, using Two Weapon Fighting (assuming all of the feats).

    4 Attacks for the Paladin character at level 20.
    2 From Gusnlinger class (1 at full, 1 at -5).
    1 From wielding weapon in off hand (both weapons take a -4 penalty).
    1 Additional, from ITWF. (-5)
    1 Final from GTWF. (-10)

    That gives us +16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+11/+6/+6/+1.
    Maybe I should give a class feature that removes the penalties from Two Weapon Fighting while wielding one handed ranged weapons? Or just lower them to the light penalties?

    @Arguskos; does the Revolver count as a light weapon? Or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Lord View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
    Without touching on the other abilities, I have to ask, why is a full-BAB class granting an additional +1/level bonus to attack rolls? At that point, you're either hitting on a 2+, or everyone else in your party pretty much needs a 20 to hit. I understand you want an alternative to progressing spellcasting for knights or martial paladins that enter the PrC, but what's the reasoning for such a massive boost to attack rolls?
    This is a good point. What do you suggest? I could lower the bonus to 1/2 level. Mostly, I wanted to give the non-spellcasters a bonus that would be, you know, partly useful. Also, it helped offset the penalties from Two Weapon Fighting, which I think I am going to make a requirement for this class (after changing PBS to Rapid Reload).
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    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Also, it helped offset the penalties from Two Weapon Fighting, which I think I am going to make a requirement for this class (after changing PBS to Rapid Reload).
    Then that's exactly what it should do.

    "A Gunslinger that chooses to follow this path reduces the penalties for offhand attacks made with the Two-Weapon Fighting line of feats by 1 point per class level."

    Yes, this means your offhand attacks eventually become more accurate than your mainhand. "I am not lefthanded", or something.

    Alternately, apply a lesser bonus to all iterative attacks derived from base attack bonus. 1/4 class level to first iterative, 1/2 to second, full to third. Keeps them relevant longer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
    Then that's exactly what it should do.

    "A Gunslinger that chooses to follow this path reduces the penalties for offhand attacks made with the Two-Weapon Fighting line of feats by 1 point per class level."

    Yes, this means your offhand attacks eventually become more accurate than your mainhand. "I am not lefthanded", or something.
    Good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
    Alternately, apply a lesser bonus to all iterative attacks derived from base attack bonus. 1/4 class level to first iterative, 1/2 to second, full to third. Keeps them relevant longer.
    This is also a good idea.

    Would you mind if I implemented one, the other, or possibly both?
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    I think both would be overkill, but that's for you to decide. Feel free.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
    I think both would be overkill, but that's for you to decide. Feel free.
    I implemented the first. Thanks for the advice!
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    unosarta, no, neither the Revolver or the Pistol from Firearms! is a light weapon, instead both being one-handed weapons. The Intolian P-4 is though. ;)

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    So it grants rapid reload but also requires you have it to enter? Is this a typo or is it improving rapid reload?

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    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Will save, I think (it's hard to see exactly where you were quoting).
    Path of Word or Gun. You don't actually state what it requires.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    How is it odd, exactly?
    I've never seen anything that allows taking 10 on attack rolls or saving throws. The fact these rolls automatically fail or succeed on a roll of 1 or 20, regardless of the bonus, indicates that these rolls are inherently unpredictable. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it is highly unusual.

    Getting rid of critical failures means no critical hits, unless you drastically extend the crit range of your weapon, which isn't even remotely possible with the firearm rules. The roll is certainly pretty good yes, but that means that some abilities that the character gets from firearms (most have a pretty okay critical multiplier) is also negated. It is a choice, and the character can always choose to roll instead.
    Generally, crit-fishing is risky and unreliable even if you build for it. For a weapon that crits like a greataxe, it's really not anything to build a plan around. Being able to pretty much never miss (you're already a full-BAB attacker) is a far better option than hoping for that less than 5% chance to do triple damage.

    Good point. Maybe only allow it to be used in combat?
    Even then, you'll run into problems of what constitutes combat. How close would you have to be to an enemy to use it? Can you use it while sneaking up on something? Does a monster have to be aware of you for you to use it? You're better off with either some kind of cost like ability damage, usage limit, or require you to strike an enemy with an attack like a crusader.

    I wanted to keep it open to all weapons, since not everyone is going to be using a gun, although they will all need to be proficient with it. The firearm rules, for the most common gun, which is essentially a five-shooter, means you actually don't only get one attack with each gun, but rather 5 attacks with each gun, and can reload the weapon as a swift action, no matter his hands are occupied, so it isn't that bad (you can get 15 attacks a round with those guns, which is unlikely to happen). I have a version on a different thread that is setting specific, although the mechanics are the same, and I have been getting critiques from that, and it might have been boosted in that thread. I will have to copy the other one over.
    I understand wanting to make it not strictly gun-only, and the link to firearm rules helps me put things into perspective much more nicely. See, I was assuming flintlock, which have ridiculous reload times. The assumption was likely based on the fact my own settings have a Renassance-level tech.

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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    @Arguskos; Oh, okay, cool. Well, that still works out with the change to the Path of the Gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiimanclassic View Post
    So it grants rapid reload but also requires you have it to enter? Is this a typo or is it improving rapid reload?
    Read the Rapid Reload ability. It is better than the feat by quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Path of Word or Gun. You don't actually state what it requires.
    Oh, that is what I assumed, and I edited it as a Will save.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    I've never seen anything that allows taking 10 on attack rolls or saving throws. The fact these rolls automatically fail or succeed on a roll of 1 or 20, regardless of the bonus, indicates that these rolls are inherently unpredictable. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it is highly unusual.
    Well, you could say that about a lot of things. However, there specifically is an effect that does mirror this, albeit in a more effective way. The Stance of Perfect Order, a 6th level stance from ToB. It lets you treat any d20 roll as an 11, once per round. It is ever so slightly different, but the effect is essentially the same, albeit once per round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Generally, crit-fishing is risky and unreliable even if you build for it. For a weapon that crits like a greataxe, it's really not anything to build a plan around. Being able to pretty much never miss (you're already a full-BAB attacker) is a far better option than hoping for that less than 5% chance to do triple damage.
    I think it depends. There is certainly no guarantee that the Gunslinger will hit, even with full BAB. For instance, consider a Gunslinger who has 6 levels in a Full BAB class and has taken their first level of Gunslinger, and now has the Steady Hands ability. If he or she was to go up against a, for instance, huge air elemental, which is right on his CR, he would miss every time even if he had an 18 in Dexterity, which doesn't exactly seem super likely, unless he had some really nice weapons. Admittedly, the difference in AC and attack roll is only one, but still.

    If you really think that it is too good, what would be a good way to fix it while keeping the basic idea of the ability? Make it only once per round?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Even then, you'll run into problems of what constitutes combat. How close would you have to be to an enemy to use it? Can you use it while sneaking up on something? Does a monster have to be aware of you for you to use it? You're better off with either some kind of cost like ability damage, usage limit, or require you to strike an enemy with an attack like a crusader.
    Strike an enemy is kind of weird, ability damage makes it all but useless, so my only option appears to be usage limit. I am not planning on making it per day, so my only option is per encounter, in which case, it will still have to have something saying it cannot be used outside of combat. So, I literally cannot win here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    I understand wanting to make it not strictly gun-only, and the link to firearm rules helps me put things into perspective much more nicely. See, I was assuming flintlock, which have ridiculous reload times. The assumption was likely based on the fact my own settings have a Renassance-level tech.
    Oh jeez. Technically, the class abilities work just as well with flintlocks, at least once you get the upgraded Rapid Reload. Before that, you are kind of screwed.
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    Well It definitely has some good fluff. My concern would be the number of abilities some features grant, like: Rapid Reload and Fan of the Hammer. While not overpowering (and I wouldn't even consider this if all the features weren't as good as they are), they do grant quite a bit for a single level in a prestige class. Although the prerequisites might balance this. Whats the minimum level of entry?
    Last edited by eftexar; 2011-08-15 at 06:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    Well It definitely has some good fluff. My concern would be the number of abilities some features grant, like: Rapid Reload and Fan of the Hammer. While not overpowering (and I wouldn't even consider this if all the features weren't as good as they are), they do grant quite a bit for a single level in a prestige class. Although the prerequisites might balance this. Whats the minimum level of entry?
    I dunno. If I removed most of the extras, the level would be relatively boring. For instance, fan the hammer, is essentially the same as Rapid Reload, but helps more for longer reload time weapons, since it is always 1 swift action to reload. Without that extra bit, it is rather boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Well, you could say that about a lot of things. However, there specifically is an effect that does mirror this, albeit in a more effective way. The Stance of Perfect Order, a 6th level stance from ToB. It lets you treat any d20 roll as an 11, once per round. It is ever so slightly different, but the effect is essentially the same, albeit once per round.
    Yeah, it's an always-on 6th level stance. That's what I mean, it might be kinda powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    I think it depends. There is certainly no guarantee that the Gunslinger will hit, even with full BAB. For instance, consider a Gunslinger who has 6 levels in a Full BAB class and has taken their first level of Gunslinger, and now has the Steady Hands ability. If he or she was to go up against a, for instance, huge air elemental, which is right on his CR, he would miss every time even if he had an 18 in Dexterity, which doesn't exactly seem super likely, unless he had some really nice weapons. Admittedly, the difference in AC and attack roll is only one, but still.
    You also forgot enhancement bonuses to the guns or masterwork, which any self-respecting gunslinger would have by 7th level. Looking through the monster manual, all the CR 7 monsters that couldn't be auto-hit by this hypothetical gunslinger only miss his margin by 1-3 points, which can be bridge by enhancement bonuses, feats, and possibly your own Gunslinger level if you took Path of the Gun. Once this improves to 15, the question goes out the window; you can auto-hit pretty much anything at that time, especially if you're fighting multiple weak creatures instead of a single tanky monster.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    If you really think that it is too good, what would be a good way to fix it while keeping the basic idea of the ability? Make it only once per round?
    Once per round is a good compromise. They can choose to fire a hail of bullets if they want, but they also have the choice to auto-hit at least once, especially when it counts.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Strike an enemy is kind of weird, ability damage makes it all but useless, so my only option appears to be usage limit. I am not planning on making it per day, so my only option is per encounter, in which case, it will still have to have something saying it cannot be used outside of combat. So, I literally cannot win here.
    Maybe have it like the dragon shaman's aura (dragon shaman, right?) or whichever it is that heals, but only up to half health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    You also forgot enhancement bonuses to the guns or masterwork, which any self-respecting gunslinger would have by 7th level. Looking through the monster manual, all the CR 7 monsters that couldn't be auto-hit by this hypothetical gunslinger only miss his margin by 1-3 points, which can be bridge by enhancement bonuses, feats, and possibly your own Gunslinger level if you took Path of the Gun. Once this improves to 15, the question goes out the window; you can auto-hit pretty much anything at that time, especially if you're fighting multiple weak creatures instead of a single tanky monster.
    Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Once per round is a good compromise. They can choose to fire a hail of bullets if they want, but they also have the choice to auto-hit at least once, especially when it counts.
    Yeah, that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    Maybe have it like the dragon shaman's aura (dragon shaman, right?) or whichever it is that heals, but only up to half health.
    Oh, this isn't a bad idea at all.
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    Well my concern wasn't necessarily the power of the abilities itself, but what level they were granted at. At a level 6 entry they're fine how they are.

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    First, I must say I like this class, and it truly captures the image of the gunslinger. The only things that I might have problems with are the aligment restriction and the oath, because I feel that Roland isn't what I would consider a shining paragon of goodness and he left many an innocent to die while on his quest, but still was a great gunslinger (or half of one at least). On the other hand, breaking the oath only makes a Gunslinger lose the Path of the White, so it might not be all that bad, especially if it supersedes any other code.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    Well my concern wasn't necessarily the power of the abilities itself, but what level they were granted at. At a level 6 entry they're fine how they are.
    Okay. Yeah, that is definitely a valid concern, and something I was wondering about before some of the comments here.

    Quote Originally Posted by I, Dashing Cube View Post
    First, I must say I like this class, and it truly captures the image of the gunslinger. The only things that I might have problems with are the aligment restriction and the oath, because I feel that Roland isn't what I would consider a shining paragon of goodness and he left many an innocent to die while on his quest, but still was a great gunslinger (or half of one at least). On the other hand, breaking the oath only makes a Gunslinger lose the Path of the White, so it might not be all that bad, especially if it supersedes any other code.
    Yeah, Roland was... an interesting character. Also, you are the first person to actively and explicitly mention the Dark Tower, so you get a cookie.

    Anyway. In truth, Roland is in a real moral grey area. You see, Roland is not on a quest to save innocents, or do anything like that, although I guess you could say he is, in a way. His real quest is to save the Dark Tower, and although he does not start out with the motive to save it, he certainly gains it close to the end (funny thing; I still haven't fully finished the Dark Tower series. Still halfway through the seventh book). The Dark Tower of course, is sort of like a metaphor for all of existance. By destroying it, the Red King plans to destroy every world, and every person in every world. So, in a way, Roland's quest is the ultimate good. Yes, he makes choices that might be considered morally-ishy (although usually with reason), but the end result saves so many more lives, truly, one could say, infinitely more lives, that it honestly ends up being, as far as I can tell, a good act. An act so fundamentally good that it wouldn't really matter to me if he killed all of the town of Tull without provocation (which is not the case), his actions and his motivation are still so good that it probably outweighs most of the rest of his actions, by a large magnitude. Of course, this also depends on the outcome of the book, which I don't know, but that shouldn't remove the fundamental aspect of my point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
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    Default Re: You Have Forgotten the Face of Your Father [Prestige Class]

    I have never seen the first book in the Dark Tower series. I'm not kidding, I can never find that gods damned book; it's always just not there. It scares me a little.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Lord View Post
    I have never seen the first book in the Dark Tower series. I'm not kidding, I can never find that gods damned book; it's always just not there. It scares me a little.
    That is actually pretty funny, since I read the first four (including the first book) at a library in Japan. Like, it was the prefectural library for Gunma, which I will be honest, isn't that big, and it had all four of them in English.

    So, I dunno what your library is doing, man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    That is actually pretty funny, since I read the first four (including the first book) at a library in Japan. Like, it was the prefectural library for Gunma, which I will be honest, isn't that big, and it had all four of them in English.

    So, I dunno what your library is doing, man.
    And it's even more funny when my Library is actually pretty big sized. And that's not the only problem; I've gone to other libraries, and they didn't have it either. I'm a little worried that there's a conspiracy at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Lord View Post
    And it's even more funny when my Library is actually pretty big sized. And that's not the only problem; I've gone to other libraries, and they didn't have it either. I'm a little worried that there's a conspiracy at this point.
    It's possible you are looking for it in the wrong section? You should ask the librarians for help, that is what they are there for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    It's possible you are looking for it in the wrong section? You should ask the librarians for help, that is what they are there for.
    Oh no, I found the fourth book in the series. But that's the only book that I can find; heck, I even asked my Dad, and he actually has it, but he couldn't find it. And he has a super organized book shelf so I was just like, " Wut? WUT?! "
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