OOTS #801 - The Discussion Thread

[Threadnaught]

Savvy scrying spellcasters avoid going for a high Will target directly. Pick someone who is likely to linger near the target. A fellow party member's animal companion is approximately ideal.

But, but, but... The Linear Guild didn't know about the Animal Companion before they saw the OotS in the middle of the desert, is it difficult to scry on someone/thing you don't even know about? Sure maybe there's a chance Nale told Z the cat was important to Shojo, but they didn't know it was with the Order until the scrying, they had to scry to learn this and this is likely the whole reason behind them recruiting YukYuk, who is likely to have had Sir Scraggly a little longer than Belkar had Mr Scruffy.

Why would they scry on some dead guy's cat on another continent, when there's a magical thermo nuclear blast a few hundred miles away in the desert?


Also the familiar, Z never saw it in the earlier fight against V, chances are Quarr was "employed" by the LG because Z learned about V's familiar from the scrying and wanted to keep up the evil opposites theme the LG is based on.


Savvy forum users do research. :P

[Gift Jeraff]

But, but, but... The Linear Guild didn't know about the Animal Companion before they saw the OotS in the middle of the desert, is it difficult to scry on someone/thing you don't even know about?

Who's to say that's the first time they scried on the Order? Zz'dtri could have cast it on another OOTSer, saw that there was a cat in the party, and then started scrying on Mr. Scruffy from then on.

[martianmister]

Maybe they know about Shojo's locations?

[Yana]

Of course they know the locations. Nale was present for the exposition recap that Roy asked for.

[Forikroder]

its possible they had Z keeping a very close eye on the area, or perhaps through other means

perhaps there even wrking with gerard

[M.A.D]

Couldn't they just scry the place where something blew up in the middle of the dessert and caught a glimpse of the Order?

[KoboldRevenge]

Yes It's very probable its Z though I think it was just there to show how He was able to prepare for V.Hey is it just me or is a certain large; you might call him "Giant" mod seems to be locking more than usual? Ahhh! Never mind don't answer me. Run away! aaaaaaa!

[pjackson]

but the universe did update from 2nd to 3rd edition in the middle of an adventure (admittedly a long, long time ago),

That was from 3.0 to 3.5

[pjackson]

Interesting there isn't a Luck mechanic in D&D.

There are at least 2 luck mechanics in 3.5 D&D - luck bonuses to rolls and luck rerolls. Complete Scoundrel has a set of luck feats.

[mrmcfatty]

She's a captain from the Free City of Doom. Plus she was taken by a couple of nobodies. While Nale's build helps even the score, he also focuses in enchantment, which is good when convincing someone you're the wrong target.

True she is just A captain, but one would assume that she is most likely a fighter and could at least hold her own against Nale in a fight, that is until he charms her or something of the sort. And the nobodies that she was taken by have surrounded her while fighting off Elan to get to Tarquin hardly means shes not a decent level.

[Mutant Sheep]

its possible they had Z keeping a very close eye on the area, or perhaps through other means

perhaps there even wrking with gerard

Well they might be working with gerard, but they probably aren't working with Girard. Yeah, a very large sized super-mod is posting alot now. Locking, sadly, but making awesome posts anyway!

[Threadnaught]

Who's to say that's the first time they scried on the Order? Zz'dtri could have cast it on another OOTSer, saw that there was a cat in the party, and then started scrying on Mr. Scruffy from then on.

Cloister, by the time it wore off, Hayley and Belkar were at least on their way to the western continent. This would still leave a relatively short window of time in which Z could actively scry on Hayley and Belkar, and considering V is his rival, you'd think that he'd scry on V and see the cat, then start scrying the cat right? Well since the party regrouped how many opportunities to learn about Mr Scruffy has Z really had?



One problem I have with this current strip.

We all know stories where the villain lets the guy guarding the prisoner keep the cell door key and it always ends with the prisoner escaping. Either because they killed the guard and took the key, tricked the guard, or someone else helped them escape by getting the key from the guard, usually with the guard dying or being humiliated.

Tarquin knows which villain clichés are bad for his empire, this being one of them, why would he not have the cell door key in a more secure location, such as on his person, or in the antimagic zone of the arena prisons?

Another useful thing would be, instead of just having a few guys outside the arena prison, he'd do well to have at least one ninja hiding in the antimagic area. Maybe because of the parade all the toughest defenses were taken down (again a bad cliché), but then again considering what he told Elan, I suppose it's possible that he may have put those holes in his defenses there on purpose in order to give someone a reasonable chance to defeat him.

[Scrynor]

It's an isolated cell with his former lover. I think there are pretty good odds he wanted her to escape so that they could have another confrontation. She's no real threat and a despotic dictator has to get his kicks somewhere...

[Lord Vukodlak]

Snip

The tiny barred window wouldn't allow the captive to get to the key, traditionally such an escape is made from a barred cell where the hero can grab the guard and pull them up to the cell. That doesn't work when the only opening is a tiny barred window.She couldn't reach through to attack him let alone take the key.

The guard in question is a lizardman so he's not going to be seduced by a mammal. And Tarquin clearly hands out informational pamphlets to educate his guards against simple tricks.

In a outside rescue situation a door is not going to stop the party of heroes. A locked door they can't open is just something you'll need to replace after they break it down.

[whitelaughter]

On a distinctly less brilliant note, was I the only one who saw the strip title "Bound to Happen" and thought it would involve Belkar and his Ring of Jumping?

Belkar doesn't have his gear - the thought has struck me that Belkar might forget that and try and jump between buildings, and die from the falling damage. Of course, he'd need to be carved up beforehand, but I still think it'd serve the little monster right.

I think Elan wasn't punning cos...he couldn't come up with a pun. Go on come up with a pun for the situation I dare you.

"Time for a double!" is always appropriate when fencing against your twin. (For those who don't fence, a double is a fencing move where you circle your opponents blade to slip past a parry).

"And you're Nailed" is a simple emergency pun Elan can always use against Nale.

Not sure whether "fighting for your lady's dishonour?" would work; depends on GM ruling I guess.

To complain about Nale following him around is trickier; want to play on bad smell or reflection I guess.

It looks like the Order may defeat the Linear Guild with their own power. That'll be nice. The less outside help, the better.

Elan is level drained and wounded; Roy near death; V low on spells; Haley petrified; Belkar without equipment and due to die (and his cat hurt).
I'm guessing/hoping that we will see more cases of the Order winning by bringing in temporary allies; in particular Durkon bringing in Malak (who gets to avenge his children by killing Nale).

[Snails]

Why would they scry on some dead guy's cat on another continent, when there's a magical thermo nuclear blast a few hundred miles away in the desert?

The desert is the first time we noticed. We do not know if it was the first time a scrying succeeded. Surely Zz scryed the target of his hyper-focused effort more than once.

The Order is so bad at Spotting, it was a running joke earlier on. In fact, it is still a running joke! The only one to spot the scry sensor was the animal companion.

[Gift Jeraff]

Cloister, by the time it wore off, Hayley and Belkar were at least on their way to the western continent. This would still leave a relatively short window of time in which Z could actively scry on Hayley and Belkar, and considering V is his rival, you'd think that he'd scry on V and see the cat, then start scrying the cat right? Well since the party regrouped how many opportunities to learn about Mr Scruffy has Z really had?

If Z's been scrying on the party everyday, he would have had like 6 days between the reunion and the day of the explosion. As for cloister, if Xykon's under level 30, it should be off by now. (Even if he cast it the precise moment before Haley, Belkar, Scruffy, and Celia left, it's been 6~ months.)

[the_tick_rules]

The desert is the first time we noticed. We do not know if it was the first time a scrying succeeded. Surely Zz scryed the target of his hyper-focused effort more than once.

The Order is so bad at Spotting, it was a running joke earlier on. In fact, it is still a running joke! The only one to spot the scry sensor was the animal companion.

they should have had him with all the ninjas.

[ThePhantasm]

So Roy has a plan now (outlast Thog)

Elan has a slight advantage now (delaying Nale)

V has an advantage now (controlled kobold).

I have a feeling something is going to go wrong soon.

Also, where is Durkon?

[Holy_Knight]

I have a feeling something is going to go wrong soon.

Also, where is Durkon?

The longer we go without seeing him, the more suspicious I get that these two are somehow related...

[rbetieh]

The real question is where is haleys aunt, you know the one sneaking food into the arena for Ian. There are still a few missing players in the field. Are we even sure the bounty hunters won't come back if they find out about Nale? So many possibilities.....

[Red XIV]

Elan is level drained and wounded; Roy near death; V low on spells; Haley petrified; Belkar without equipment and due to die (and his cat hurt).

Elan's handicaps aren't that important as long as Nale is occupied by Amun-Zora. And when he finds Durkon, he can get Haley un-petrified. And Durkon might be able to do something about the level drain as well, if he has Restoration prepared today.

Roy had his wounds healed by Ian's potion, and Thog's rage is going to run out, leaving him weakened and still unarmed.

V doesn't need to cast any more spells when s/he's got a semi-automatic kobold.

Belkar...might not even have to fight, given that V is already controlling his evil opposite. And his equipment is going to be laying there in the lobby, right where Roy told him to go look for the rest of the Linear Guild.

[derfenrirwolv]

If that woman dies fighting Nale, would it be an evil act on the part of Elan since he set her up for a fight she'd probably lose?

-No. Evil implies intent, and the ability to rationally conclude that her death would follow from fighting nale.

1) This isn't certain. She felt confident in taking on tarquin, a general, his son should be easier

2) Elan has the brain of a child , and blaming him for not thinking that far ahead would be like blaming you for not thinking 128 moves ahead in chess.

[MoonCat]

If that woman dies fighting Nale, would it be an evil act on the part of Elan since he set her up for a fight she'd probably lose?

-No. Evil implies intent, and the ability to rationally conclude that her death would follow from fighting nale.

1) This isn't certain. She felt confident in taking on tarquin, a general, his son should be easier

2) Elan has the brain of a child , and blaming him for not thinking that far ahead would be like blaming you for not thinking 128 moves ahead in chess.

I utterly agree that that doesn't make Elan evil, but I highly object to your second statement, which pretty much justifies anything Thog does as well. And quite frankly, as someone who still technically counts as a child (or are teens not children? They keep changing the rules) it is NOWHERE near looking ahead 128 moves, but more like four, even considering that he's in a panic.

[derfenrirwolv]

Right. 4 moves for elan= 128 moves for you. Sounds about right...especially in a panic. Also, if she stays in jail she's dead anyway, so this is probably her BEST chance to live.

There is a huge difference between INTENTIONALLY getting someone killed, and accidentally getting someone killed because you didn't realize that step 5 was the entire linear guild showing up and roflcoptering her.



Thog CAN think ahead. He took 2 levels of fighter and min maxes himself, and is cruel enough to have a Celion Deon record on hand to torture people with.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

is

[Threadnaught]

The tiny barred window wouldn't allow the captive to get to the key, traditionally such an escape is made from a barred cell where the hero can grab the guard and pull them up to the cell. That doesn't work when the only opening is a tiny barred window.She couldn't reach through to attack him let alone take the key.

The guard in question is a lizardman so he's not going to be seduced by a mammal. And Tarquin clearly hands out informational pamphlets to educate his guards against simple tricks.

In a outside rescue situation a door is not going to stop the party of heroes. A locked door they can't open is just something you'll need to replace after they break it down.

I'll give you the window, but the other two are more situational. Isn't there a Strength based DC for kicking open locked doors? I'll just be sitting here trying to think of ten times that's been done to free someone, so far I have one.

Assuming a lizardfolk wouldn't be attracted to a human because they're lizardfolk is almost racist (is it possible to be racist toward something that doesn't really exist?) during a Q&A session, one Hobgoblin showed an attraction to Hayley Starshine, despite her lack of fangs. In reality the prison guard is not attracted to the prisoner, because he's a prison guard and she's a prisoner. This is a running gag in the comic, most likely poking fun at how easily prison guards are seduced by the inmates in most games and other media.

[Holy_Knight]

Assuming a lizardfolk wouldn't be attracted to a human because they're lizardfolk is almost racist (is it possible to be racist toward something that doesn't really exist?) during a Q&A session, one Hobgoblin showed an attraction to Hayley Starshine, despite her lack of fangs. In reality the prison guard is not attracted to the prisoner, because he's a prison guard and she's a prisoner. This is a running gag in the comic, most likely poking fun at how easily prison guards are seduced by the inmates in most games and other media.

What? That's not racist. Physical attraction is based in your own species, and the farther away a creature is from that, the less likely you are to be attracted to them. It would be pretty weird for a lizardfolk to have the same standards of beauty that a human does.

[Andre]

That was days ago, wasn't it? Besides, this is a place where magic can grow hair instantly. So, you know.

Hey, that was not the point. Besides, this is a place where magic is so common, Amun-Zora should have known that Elan can no longer grow facial hair as of #388. So, you know.

Yes, that does not make sense either, but nothing posted in this sub-forum does, so we're doing fine!

[Red XIV]

during a Q&A session, one Hobgoblin showed an attraction to Hayley Starshine, despite her lack of fangs.

A hobgoblin and a human are physiologically a lot closer than a human and a lizardfolk. In the OotS-verse, goblinoids seem to be not all that different in appearance to humans, aside from the skin color, ears, and fangs. And the males all being bald.