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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Where are you?
    You are here. In this place. Where the map-maker dares not tread.
    You are in the Simulation, a place created most by accident. It is a place where stuff is created more than it is destroyed, a place where physics have long been forgotten - and yet it is a place of gears and mechanics, where clockworks outnumber flesh and technology advances ever more.

    Where did it come from?
    In his quest for eternal life, some say, some wizard with psychic powers destroyed the world with a thousand-year clock and a golem's dreams. Others say he really created a world from the mass unconsciousnesses of several hundred constructs. But the truth is, all that was created was a simulation of a world, that which could happen but never will, from the mechanical mind of a warforged, a simulation which was composed of imperfect formulas and flaws, with what is impossible even to magic and divinity taking place at random.
    Eventually, the wizard, who's fate is never mentioned, and the warforged became legend, and legend myth, when something within the simulation successfully found it's way out. The magics and improbabilities mixed, leaked, and destroyed several planes and finally the warforged within whom the simulation existed. And yet the broken physics of the simulation persisted, several minor planes and existences being consumed in the cataclysm and re-wrought. They are the Simulation as it is known, a place quite real now.

    So what's it like?
    Imagine yourself in a world where there is no definite north or south, up or down, or even left and right. Where gravity is subjective, where paths cross themselves even when traveling in a straight line, and where Time is the only constant.
    Oh, wait. no need to imagine. Your here already.
    As you can plainly see when you throw a rock, it moves. But it's energy is not guaranteed to diminish, and so it is not guaranteed to fall back down. You could tie a rope to a stone and the other end to yourself, throw it, and be dragged along behind it, until such a time as you untie yourself. Or it hits something, which is more likely.

    You may also notice, if you walk through a door, and then back through, you may not always end up where you were originally. See, the plane has this tendency to expand. It rarely, if ever, consumes the other planes around it, but with the rules governing the Conservation of Energy being almost totally non existent, and energy being given but never lost, it seems there is a never ending increase in energy, which needs a place to go. And so the plane keeps expanding, with brand new hallways and rooms sometimes growing between spaces the size of a piece of paper, with doorways to rooms that existed, doorways to no-where, doorways leading back into the same room, doorways leading to themselves, and doorways that have new rooms just appearing. And the weird way that a doorway can lead to someplace entirely distant from it's location is just plain odd.

    The surroundings are usually always the same though: All the walls, floors and roofs are made of packed earth, which may be of any thickness, digging through which may lead to any random room. But there is almost always light, despite there being no open skies, gleaming from half-unseeable runes that seem to disappear when you look at them, that are always there.

    Sounds maddening. What kinds of people live there?
    Totally sane ones. See, they've lived their whole lives with it, and so if you tried to tell them about a world where a door always led to one place, or where when you push something heavy, it stops moving when you stop pushing. There is very little contact between them and the "normal" planes, largely in part because what works in the Simulation may not work elsewhere, and vice versa, but beings of flesh and bone seem to have no actual trouble passing between.

    There are population pockets of humans within the Simulation. They have vast population centers, where they live, trade, barter, and generally enjoy their existence. It is rare for a person to have a fixed abode, though. These cities, large as they are, have no doors. Instead, a building usually has three walls of canvas or fabrics, with further rooms being rare, and having open walls into the previous room. To do otherwise invites rooms to appear between those that otherwise exist, and doors to appear on walls intended to be left blank. Citizens pitch tents to prevent their homes becoming part of the next city over, and addresses change frequently. If a town or city is too large to fit in a single room, even if the room is large enough to support several thousand tents and buildings, it may end up separating and drifting apart. And so most people opt never to leave the room their tent is in.

    While humans are common, and golems also rather common, Warforged are more common still, their artificial flesh being more resilient than a humans' flesh, but more reliable and less likely to fall victim to the Simulation's expansion than a golems' gears and compartments. There are elves, who have managed to cultivate tree cities within large open areas, and gnomes who live by tunneling between rooms and living vagabond lives. Dwarves exist only in legends, being remembered, but never seen in the Simulation. Something about it gives them all the creeps, and any who find themselves within it always leave at the first possible moment. Orcs and goblins may sometimes be encountered, but more often than not are unorganized.

    Tell me more about Gravity, please?
    It's simple: see that door in the floor? If you walk out of it, the floor is a wall, and that wall is a floor. If you step on a curve between floor and wall, they reverse being what they are, but it won't work for corners. If you land on a wall after a fall, it's the floor.
    Not simple enough? OK.
    Each object, person, or other thing has it's own perception of where "down" is. It's relative to how they entered the room they are in. So if you climbed up a ladder, the "wall" into which the ladder leads is the floor to you, the adjacent "walls" really are walls, and the opposite "wall" is your roof. Objects may be on those walls as if it were the floor to them, because they entered through a different door.
    But your perception can change. If a floor has a gradual curve, so long as you keep walking on the curve, it remains the floor. Even if you end up 90o as to where you entered. If you get hit hard, or thrown, or otherwise travel some distance through the air, the first surface you hit is the floor to you. The surface you get put on is also down if you get picked up and set gently. Oddly enough, jumping is not like throwing, and you always come back to the floor you jumped from.

    This means that a city may end up with tents and "buildings", farms and trees on all 6 surfaces, assuming it's in a cube. It may be in a cylinder, or a pyramid, or even in an irregular shape with "inside" corners. Loot may be just out of reach above you in a pit trap, a boulder may roll "up" a sloped wall to crush you from below, or roll sideways and just pass you by, and a lead balloon may really float upwards.

    Where does the food come from?
    If you skimmed the above, you may have missed that there are sometimes forests within a room, or farms. Most of the walls are made of packed dirt, and usually have mosses or grasses growing on them, or are muddy. And strange, inexplicable runes flash all over the surfaces of a room, never there when you look at them, but always there, giving out the light required for plants to grow, for eyes to see, for life to thrive.
    Wheat, corns, and other grains are popular crops, although if a "roof" is rather low, you may end up with your vision obscured by them as the grow out of what seems to you to be the ceiling. And they can be used to make food that keeps for a long time, which is important if you get lost and separated.
    Root crops, like potatoes, are not popular cultivated. You never know when the Simulations expansions may put a room between the stalk of your carefully planted crops, and the harvest. Such rooms have absolutely hugely long roots stretched across them, and sometimes have a harvest-able crop dangling from them, but the crop is usually on the far side of the room, still deep in the ground, probably with more rooms between yet. It is for this reason that such crops are not domesticated, although they are allowed to grow wild, and when someone reaches a center with wild root crops that they picked, they can sell them for a hefty profit.
    Berries and vine crops grow in the wild quite easily, but with subjective gravity, it is hard to grow them on farms or orchards. Sometimes farmers find their vineyards have grown to the ceiling, rooted there, and then pulled their original roots out of the ground and out of reach when the room expanded, or that their apples are falling out of the tree to the ceiling.

    Can you split the party?
    If you never want to see each other again.
    OK, the truth is, it's pretty hard to find each other, but not impossible. Even though expansion and room addition is pretty chaotic, and rooms may connect to rooms far, far away with no warning, they follow a pretty general pattern. If you need to find each other later, meet up at a city. while they may be hard to find, even if you just left, you should find one eventually, and there should be someone there capable of teleporting you to another city,so long as you know the name of the city you are going to.
    But generally, without magical aid, you will probably never see them again.

    What organizations will you find?
    There are several small churches, and large ones, just like any churches in any generic setting. Some are larger, and many deities share temples, and they have monks, priests, clerics, and paladins.
    Most cities have their own governments, some with kings and others just with a simple mayor. It's pretty impossible to rule the lands around a city, as at any point another city may wind up closer to those lands, but if there are enough mages capable of casting spells to transport people between cities, certain governments may form with several cities in their control, but the lands between remain lawless.
    There are several demon worshiping cultists, with Baphomet the leading candidate, with their world as is resembling the layer of the abyss on which he resides to a degree.
    Really, with the difficulty of holding an organization together, and endless expansion of the Simulation, there aren't any or many big ones, but you can probably find countless small ones.

    How can you help?
    I need tons more. I need more populations, I need major cities, I need specific groups, I need plot hooks specific to this world, and generic ones, I need monsters, I need ways to advance the theme that this all originated from a warforged long ago, I need more quirks in the physics (although not too many. We don't want to go messing in with the rules of the game too much), I need interesting ideas concerning exploits of this odd change, and I need "If-then-or maps".


    "If-then-or maps"? what do I mean? I mean piles of notes and maps that I can put together to make what seems like an ever changing environment, but is really constant. I mean "If" the players do one of several things, "Then" this is the next room, "Or" if they don't, 'this' is how you decide what room they end up in and if they've been there before and how close it is.

    Table of Contents:

    Last edited by flabort; 2011-10-06 at 10:08 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Okay, I want to help. This sounds like a blast of a project, so I'll help how I can.

    I'm a wee bit tired at the moment, but I'll get working on some of the odder physics of the world. I always love that stuff.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    plot hooks: 1. someone has wandered away from [town party is in]. No one else wants to go find them for fear of getting lost. If only some brave adventurers could solve our problem.
    2. There are some peaceful farmers in a fairly large room, but (subjectively) short room. Unfortunately there also seems to be a small group of orcs on the "roof" that are causing problems for the town. They are strong enough to throw each other onto the walls and our "floor" to raid us, while we can't do the same to them. Please brave adventurers help us.
    3. A merchant has found a group of potatoes, but unfortunate there seems to be a [insert monster(s) here] in the same room. He needs someone to clear them out, and help with the harvest before the room moves.
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    This looks like a really cool idea and I look forward to seeing more of it.
    I would like to ask the question though, if I had say, a piece of wood that was gradually curved and I set it up in a corner, would I be able to walk on said piece of wood to get so that my wall is floor?

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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    Okay, I want to help. This sounds like a blast of a project, so I'll help how I can.

    I'm a wee bit tired at the moment, but I'll get working on some of the odder physics of the world. I always love that stuff.
    Well, I've worked out the major oddities, but anything will help. thanks, and get some rest

    Quote Originally Posted by hydroplatypus View Post
    plot hooks: 1. someone has wandered away from [town party is in]. No one else wants to go find them for fear of getting lost. If only some brave adventurers could solve our problem.
    This is exactly the kind of plot hook I was thinking of. simple, potentially low level, and while you could refluff it to a forest, it's the kind that works best with this world.

    2. There are some peaceful farmers in a fairly large room, but (subjectively) short room. Unfortunately there also seems to be a small group of orcs on the "roof" that are causing problems for the town. They are strong enough to throw each other onto the walls and our "floor" to raid us, while we can't do the same to them. Please brave adventurers help us.
    While most farmers in such a room would usually have several of the walls as farm land, or would share a "room" with a city, this is an excellent hook. I like it.

    3. A merchant has found a group of potatoes, but unfortunate there seems to be a [insert monster(s) here] in the same room. He needs someone to clear them out, and help with the harvest before the room moves.
    Other wild root crops are valuable too, and if he's traveled to a city to tell them about it, and hire some hands, can he find his way back? While I liked your other hooks, this one is not so good, because if a merchant wants to hire someone to kill something, that will probably cost just a little more than a load of wild potatoes. But otherwise it works. If he found something else valuable, (too?), it would work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkkwalker View Post
    This looks like a really cool idea and I look forward to seeing more of it.
    I would like to ask the question though, if I had say, a piece of wood that was gradually curved and I set it up in a corner, would I be able to walk on said piece of wood to get so that my wall is floor?
    Depends on how thick the wood is. I'd say yes, so long as it is at least 1/2 of a foot thick, and extended 10+ feet from each "wall". Or at least that large and capable of supporting you.

    --------

    Just starting to work on some specific places players MIGHT encounter, since their fairlyrelatively large.

    The Kingdom of Cetchin
    This small kingdom encompasses 7 cities and a few small towns. The capital city, named "Leduc", has a fairly large wizard's guild and academy, and the services the kingdom buys from them are the main reason the kingdom is as large as it is, one of the largest known in the Simulation, despite being fairly small. After the death of King Gerald the 3rd, known as the "Seeker" for his frequent explorations, this kingdom is currently under the rule of Prince Gerald the 4th, known as the "Famished" for his thin size, until his coming of age when he will become a proper King.
    In each of the 7 major cities of Cetchin, there is an artifact devised by the wizard's guild, capable of transporting large groups to the locations of the other artifacts, but only once per day per destination and only so much can be transported at a time. Merchants pay a good deal of money to be in the groups heading to the other cities. These artifacts have another drawback as well: it takes almost four or five hours after disappearing from the location of one to reappear at the other. And the artifacts take up almost a 20x20 area each!
    The smaller towns are held in Cetchin's rule only by the mayors of the town willing it to be so, and a resident small time wizard willing to dedicate all his time to transporting goods and people between the major cities and their own towns. Each town pledges allegiance to one of the six lords ruling over the major cities, and those lords all pledge allegiance to their sovereign leader. These small towns are fairly heavily taxed, as the major cities have run out of farming space and cannot sustain their own populations anymore, and so there are peasants quite willing to revolt if someone chooses to lead them.

    The City of Stchatch
    This city is one of the more famous, and numbers amongst the largest by far. It is ruled by a trio of "Queens", Schartsa, Stchethemv, and Schaltch. Schartsa is known as a powerful Cleric of Kord, Stchthemy is known as a powerful Artificer, and Schaltch is known to be a lich, although she once was, and still is, a powerful Bard.
    Their city happens to have the fortune of being in a cube, with a massive out-jutting pillar in one wall that doesn't quite reach the other edge, capable of supporting the city's entire farmland, while the outside walls hold the populations. It is also home to one of the largest warforged-forges known in the Simulation, churning out the city's population of gaurdians, raiders, and farmers. Several of these leave to join the populations of other cities, or become adventurers, though. Besides warforged, several varieties of golem are also manufactured here.
    Stchatch's most famous feature, though, is it's collection of drinks and alcohols, most brewed right in the city, and many brewed within the active chassis's and bodies of the warforged who tend the expansive vineyards and barley fields, and the bartenders who sell the drinks. It is an interesting experience to order a drink and have the bartender pour it from a compartment in it's arm. Having developed several varieties of alcohol and being such a hub for technology, the city boasts a fine population of gnomes.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Another plot hook I thought of

    One of the teleportation artifacts that you mentioned has broken down as they lack a special part/material that is quite rare. The adventurers are contracted to find this material. The reason that they don't have it? Why that would be the local tribe of [insert level appropriate baddie tribe] that currently controls the supply. How they controlled it I am too tired too think of, will edit if I think of a viable method later. Thus the adventurers have to go and get the material back.

    Can easily be varied based on play style. If players are traditional hack and slash then have them just kill everything. If they are actually interested in negotiating perhaps the people who control it are not evil, but rather just morally ambiguous. Perhaps they just found a room big enough to sustain their tribe, and so occupied the area without knowing about the resource.

    Will probably post more tomorrow.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    cool; I'd imagine that the packed-earth walls would sometimes have un-covered veins of metals (where else would they come from? Digging is unreliable) and gems, some rare ones having magical properties.

    ---------

    I just figured out a way to be able to make navigable routes. Paint/carve/whatever lines in the ground, color coded or whatever so you can tell where one leads, and have them pass through all the doors in a route, such as to a known supply of a rare material. When a room appears between two rooms, it will have atleast 2 doorways, each with a line visible on the other side. Simple solution, is if you find the line has been disconnected, find the other end (only rarely will it be impossible to find because there's yet another room) and reconnect them. If you can't reach it the other end, build a wooden curve, or make a curved pile of dirt or something, so that you can.
    It's discourteous not to reconnect a line you're following, but since it's a known route, and leads somewhere, if you want to travel by non-magical means or get lost, just find and follow one of these lines. This means that getting lost is not as dire a situation.

    Later I might make a PrC and/or organization dedicated to creating and maintaining paths and routes through the Simulation, but for now we'll just say merchants and other travelers made and maintain most of them.

    ---------

    I'm thinking we may have to overhaul the Ranged Combat rules for this setting. First step: Get rid of maximum range increments. Shots and throws don't get weaker as they go, and can end up any distance.
    While that is more of a mechanical than fluff discussion, I may point out that because of the odd physics, ranged combat is going to be much more effective? And so the Ranged Combat rules need to be un-nerfed?
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    This is awesome.

    I have advice: Make some materials change size. Since any closed compartment can be considered a room, highly porous materials have a tendency to inflate enormously.

    Also: Make some oddnesses in people's minds. Maybe sometimes, the runes in an area all flash purple, and everyone becomes highly suggestible for a week while they try to comprehend what the strange change was. An odd flicker could mess people up a lot if it is truly omnipresent otherwise. Think of how the main character tried to understand color in The Giver, but moreso.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Now, any door can lead to somewhere completely random, yes? What about closed containers? If you have a small box, will it sometimes lead to a random hallway so you can't use it anymore? What about if the fighter carried around a door connected to a box? Would it potentially have a hallway appear in it?

    These are just some of the aspects I've been thinking of while trying to wrap my brain around how life would be here.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Good Questions/comments.

    @ Master256:
    Yes, porous materials could expand like that, I'd imagine. Obsidian or sponges could eventually fill a room as the pockets inside expand, and of course the solids would expand to keep it stable (incomplete formulas in the original simulation again), but of course the rooms their in expand too. Perhaps people tend to just not go where porous materials lie, though?

    Well, the runes do have odd powers, though they only rarely manifest. Of the rare few who have the ability to look at them and see them, some say they are the lingering consciousness of the warforged whom the Simulation originated within. And so maybe rarely the runes could make someone suggestible. But not often. That would be a 8th-12th level plot-hook.
    But there are rooms in which the runes do not shine, usually in great bunches, and people accept that as normal, too. That's why torches were invented. But often times, such darkened places are where people bury, or at least leave, their dead, out of superstition that dead left in the Light can get up and walk again. They usually leave the dead's fondest treasures with them, too, since they believe an angry soul can be appeased with what gave them joy in life.

    @ Domriso:
    While it's difficult to determine where a door will lead, it's not entirely random. The same door always leads to the same spot, until the Simulation's expansion puts another room between them. And you'll still be able to get to the spot it lead to before by going through the new room. Not completely random, but pretty difficult, yes.

    Your box may suddenly sprout a room in it's middle, which is not quite what you're asking, but close. So you'll have a small door into a small-large room or hallway, and elsewhere in the same room is an equally small door with your stuff in it. It's not worth using boxes in the simulation because of this. Instead, most people opt for cloth bags.

    Er... Your fighter could carry around a large slab of rock or some other solid material with a door in one side, which would always lead to a certain room, until, again, expansion slots another room in between. But yes, it could spontaneously gain a hallway "inside" it, although it would also more likely be situated elsewhere, and the doors just connected like portals.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Right, right, I didn't mean to make it sound like the doors just went to random places, just that, if you have a closed container, will it eventually possibly house a hallway or small room.

    Now, all I can imagine now are places that I would Nexus's. A Nexus would be a room, likely one of the smaller rooms, more like a normal room in a real-world house, or maybe a library set up, where people just collect doorways. I mean, a room filled with doors, where each one will lead to some new kind of room or hallway? What better place for a crossroads?

    Now, another question. Let's say that I have a box with a lid. It one day has a room appear inside the box. Can the room be larger than the box? Is it essentially a moving portal? Does the portal disappear if I smash the box? What is the box leads to a hallway; does the hallway have another entrance on the other side, or does it just have a hallway that attaches to my box?

    I can see all sorts of fun that could be had with small boxes, especially if there were smaller races living in this place. Can you imagine a race of diminutive or fine humanoids running around, building their own tiny societies by making little doors all over the place?
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    Right, right, I didn't mean to make it sound like the doors just went to random places, just that, if you have a closed container, will it eventually possibly house a hallway or small room.
    Yes, yes.

    Now, all I can imagine now are places that I would Nexus's. A Nexus would be a room, likely one of the smaller rooms, more like a normal room in a real-world house, or maybe a library set up, where people just collect doorways. I mean, a room filled with doors, where each one will lead to some new kind of room or hallway? What better place for a crossroads?
    Well, a lot of rooms are nexus's. A room, on average, will have 2+ doors, a city may have almost 50 doors. And sometimes a room will gain a doorway it didn't have. But most rooms will only have 2-4 doors, and there are a LOT of rooms. And some rooms will have 2 or more doors to the same room, or connect to themselves. So while yes, there are nexus's, there aren't many. And trust me, no-one want's a nexus in their house. imagine all the strangers just traipsing through your house.

    Now, another question. Let's say that I have a box with a lid. It one day has a room appear inside the box. Can the room be larger than the box? Is it essentially a moving portal? Does the portal disappear if I smash the box? What is the box leads to a hallway; does the hallway have another entrance on the other side, or does it just have a hallway that attaches to my box?
    Yes to most of the stuff. The box will function as a moving portal. If you dig a hole, it will function as a portal. The room can be much larger than the box, it can even be the size of the city of Stchatch. Assuming your box had a space inside it before, the hallway will for sure have another entrance to that space, so you can still access it, and it may have doors or entrances to other rooms.

    If you smash the box... You get a Paradox Door, or a "surface" with two doors. I'm glad you asked, or I'd have never thought of it. If the lid and enough of the box remain around the lid, the door functions as normal, but the Simulation makes another door somewhere, to which the OTHER SIDE OF THE LID links. If you thoroughly destroy the box, you get a Paradox Door. This is the door to which the box's lid previously linked. Walking through still leads to where the box was... but there's no way back, and there's this fuzzy tingly dusty glowy stuff around the area where the box's lid [/i]was[/i].

    Also, you don't need a lid. The frame functions as a portal or doorway just fine.

    I can see all sorts of fun that could be had with small boxes, especially if there were smaller races living in this place. Can you imagine a race of diminutive or fine humanoids running around, building their own tiny societies by making little doors all over the place?
    Gnomes already dig around, which makes doorways to various rooms, although they just live traveler's/vagabond's lives. So, in part, yes. Yes I can imagine a race that makes doors all over the place.

    -------------

    I figured I'd post a link to part of the inspiration for this, if it clears anything up:
    Portals as a Gameplay Mechanism.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Another plot hook idea

    Someone has mistakenly entered the simulation. Them being well trained (mid level NPC) this was not a problem at first, until he realized that the chest that he was carting around (which contained a valuable object Plot hook ) has grown several new rooms while he was trying to figure out what happened. He tried entering himself but [level appropriate monsters] have taken up residence in the intervening rooms. He is thus hiring adventurers to help him retrieve what was formerly in the chest.

    Another one

    Similarly to above NPC loses somthing inside a chest blah blah blah... except that instead of level appropriate monsters the chest opens into a village. None of the villagers are hostile, but the NPC says that he say someone running away with his object. He has had no luck figuring out who has stolen this, but is hiring outside help to find his item.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Wait... a frame by itself works as a portal? So what about arches? If I build a free standing arch, does a portal to a random location pop up, each side leading somewhere new? What happens if I build a line of arches, each an inch apart, down a hallway?

    Also, can these rooms that pop up ever intersect each other? As in, could it be possible to build a door frame that then subsequently develops a hallway leading out of it, then move said door frame and stick it in the hallway, using the other entrance to the hallway to smuggle it in? I mean, how would that even work? Could you line the doorway up with its own entrance? And what would happen if you stuck the wrong side up against it, so that walking through the doorway led you to the doorway, which led you to the doorway, which led you to the doorway, ad infinititum?

    ...Actually, in that last example, if it works that way, it could be an ingenious way to trap an invincible baddie: trapped in a doorway forever.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    ...Actually, in that last example, if it works that way, it could be an ingenious way to trap an invincible baddie: trapped in a doorway forever.
    That would be an awesome trap... High level quest idea: the tarrasque (or other suitably invincible creature) was formerly trapped in said door trap, but has recently been released by someone who accidentally moved the door. The PCs have to kill it.

    Edit: Also these mobile portals could also be used to make a mass transit system if the ends can be moved separately. Think about it. A wizard has teleport, and can travel between cities using it. He finds a door leading to city A. He walks through and finds opposing door. He takes said door and moves it to city B by teleport. Voila easy transport between cities. Now this would be fairly short lived due to expansion, but if both sides of doors are separately mobile then a maintenance crew could update the passage every so often to keep it viable by moving one end, so only a few rooms (with painted lines) actually separate them again. Mabye an interesting quest is for the PCs to find the other end of a passage like this that hasn't been used in a while.
    Last edited by hydroplatypus; 2011-08-19 at 10:28 AM.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Since navigation would be a little more than difficult here, one would think some wizard should have invented a magic compass. It could point you towards whichever door will lead you closer to your intended destination, but it occassionally gets confused or has a set number of uses per day.

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort
    So while yes, there are nexus's, there aren't many. And trust me, no-one want's a nexus in their house. imagine all the strangers just traipsing through your house.
    Hotels could make great nexus' (nexi?). Even one could have hundreds of doors, hundreds of connections with [level appropriate monsters] wandering the halls. It could make an interesting duneon at least.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    A note on the mobile doors thing: There has to be an enclosed space, such as a box; a thick surface, such as a wall; or one of these previously behind the door for expansion to put a new room behind it.
    Basically, a doorway needs a thick enough "anchor" to work.

    So if you built a decorative arch, or if all the outside edges of the arch touched a wall, a new room behind the arch or between the "halves" of the room created by an arch may form. But a free-standing arch won't form a room, unless you had a solid surface in it's center, in which case then it might form two rooms.

    I've stated before that, yes, a door in a room can lead to another door in the same room. You don't even have to smuggle a portable door in for it to work. There will usually be another door, or more, in the room too, but...
    Wait, sticking doorways together like that?! Well, a door-frame does have some width, but... I'd rule your front end would end up uncomfortably close to your back end, and there'd only be as much moving-room as in a tightly packed Mosh Pit. Yeah, you'd be trapped, until A) the door frame is moved, or B) the doors produce another room "between" them, giving you more space and likely another doorway to escape through.

    I do see what you guys mean with the mobile doorways to keep a path short, but: unfortuneatley when you make a mobile door, and it expands into a room, the door on the other side is not mobile too. it's anchored in fairly solid ground, rather than a mobile board. Such a system would work more like this:
    someone builds a frame on a solid backing (basically a large, flat box with no lid), so that it eventually links up with a door somewhere. This could be a room's walls expanding some, and "unearthing" a doorway, which connects to the portable door, or a new room spawning. If it just so happens to connect to a city, or a door in the new room connects to a city, he brings his portable door to another city. This could happen, what, 1/2^32 times someone makes their own portable door?
    Great idea, but it wouldn't work.

    Hotels would not make as great of Nexi as you'd think. While they may have some solid walls with doorways in them in the foyer, or just outside the hotel, to attract customers, the grand majority of the walls in such an establishment would all be made of cloth with a metal skeleton to hold it up, so that the rooms don't drift away, and that people don't use the facilities without paying.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Okay, now, I'm no entirely clear on why rooms would drift away. Rooms themselves don't get bigger, right? Portals will just spawn as passageways to new rooms? So, why wouldn't a Nexus work as a sort of metaphysical crossroads?
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    Okay, now, I'm no entirely clear on why rooms would drift away. Rooms themselves don't get bigger, right? Portals will just spawn as passageways to new rooms? So, why wouldn't a Nexus work as a sort of metaphysical crossroads?
    Rooms do get bigger. I thought I stated this several times.
    They'd "drift" away, because there's more/larger rooms between them.
    I'm not entirely clear what the third sentence/second question means.
    A Nexus would work, but it'd be confusing and avoided. Inns/hotels as nexi wouldn't, because the material their made of doesn't allow for doors (flaps in the fabric, in this case) to become portals.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    You might have, but I either didn't understand or somehow missed it. I'll take the blame for this one.

    Okay, so the physical rooms themselves do actually get larger over time. So, a Nexus wouldn't be terribly useful, because... why? I'm still not understanding. Let me try to explain what I'm picturing here.

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    You have a 20x20x20 foot room. It's not terribly big, but big enough. It has one doorway leading to it, which comes out in the center of the room. Now, Alspar, a Gnome, decides he wants a Nexus, so he builds another door on each wall. Above each door, on the frame, he labels them in a complicated numbering system that will assure he has a large base to work with. He also keeps a notebook which details where each doorway leads, once a portal pops up.

    Now, these doorways might not go anywhere especially helpful, but they do go somewhere, and thus can be used as directions. Alspar spends a long period of time trying to make sure that he keeps his doors in pristine condition.

    Then, the unthinkable happens. The room housing his doors expands. Suddenly, one morning, it is 100x50x50 feet, being much larger, and especially much taller. Alspar, seeing so much room, and realizing his original doors are now floating halfway up the wall, builds a ladder system leading to each doorway. However, since he also now has a lot more room, he creates several new doors, six on each wall (two next to each other, two above that, two above that), building out ladders and platforms for access. He even, after much difficulty, makes a platform system, so you can walk across the floors. He labels each door, finds where they go, and continues to keep track of the doors and where they go.

    Finally, one of the doors suddenly leads to a city. Excited, he makes his door recognizable, and he gets some helpers. With their help, they make the doors in the Nexus even more appeasing, and easier to get to. As the room keeps expanding, they keep building new doors, and revising their maps, so that people can use the Nexus as easily as possible.


    Is there something wrong with that notion? Do the rooms expand all at once, or slowly over time, or a little of both (growth spurts?)?

    As for my second question in the last post you didn't understand, what I was asking was, when you build a new portal, it will magically develop a room or hallway on the opposite side, right? Or, in other words, if you build a portal, it will eventually lead somewhere, correct?

    I'm sorry if I come off as rude (or annoying); I'm just trying to understand what I'm working with, so I can try to make things which are interesting and useful.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    You might have, but I either didn't understand or somehow missed it. I'll take the blame for this one.

    Okay, so the physical rooms themselves do actually get larger over time. So, a Nexus wouldn't be terribly useful, because... why? I'm still not understanding. Let me try to explain what I'm picturing here.

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    You have a 20x20x20 foot room. It's not terribly big, but big enough. It has one doorway leading to it, which comes out in the center of the room. Now, Alspar, a Gnome, decides he wants a Nexus, so he builds another door on each wall. Above each door, on the frame, he labels them in a complicated numbering system that will assure he has a large base to work with. He also keeps a notebook which details where each doorway leads, once a portal pops up.

    Now, these doorways might not go anywhere especially helpful, but they do go somewhere, and thus can be used as directions. Alspar spends a long period of time trying to make sure that he keeps his doors in pristine condition.

    Then, the unthinkable happens. The room housing his doors expands. Suddenly, one morning, it is 100x50x50 feet, being much larger, and especially much taller. Alspar, seeing so much room, and realizing his original doors are now floating halfway up the wall, builds a ladder system leading to each doorway. However, since he also now has a lot more room, he creates several new doors, six on each wall (two next to each other, two above that, two above that), building out ladders and platforms for access. He even, after much difficulty, makes a platform system, so you can walk across the floors. He labels each door, finds where they go, and continues to keep track of the doors and where they go.

    Finally, one of the doors suddenly leads to a city. Excited, he makes his door recognizable, and he gets some helpers. With their help, they make the doors in the Nexus even more appeasing, and easier to get to. As the room keeps expanding, they keep building new doors, and revising their maps, so that people can use the Nexus as easily as possible.
    Combined with OPs idea of using painted lines to maintain routes this nexus might be quite useful. If a nexus maker can connect 2 cities by chance, or mabye by finding an already painted path then his nexus just became useful, as a passage between cities. Granted this might not be too likely as cities will be far apart, but mabye he connects a city with surrounding villages, which provide trade goods to the city and vise versa. I assume there are many villages in this world, and as such the chances of a nexus eventually running into a painted path (or village) is greatly increased.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    There is nothing wrong with what you described. Nexi are just inefficient because it's so hard to keep track of where they go. There may be some near an inn in the off chance someone wanders into it, but while a group of people could keep track of the Nexi, and where it leads, you do need a group of people.

    Rooms grow slowly, but with growth spurts some times, yes. Not that drastic, and when it grows usually doors stay adjacent to their "floor". But by constructing platforms, sometimes a door will appear on or beside the platform.

    Remember, doors can also show up on any wall in the room, so your gnome may end up with a door in the floor, or doors on the bottom of his platform system.


    When you build a doorway, it does have to have a wall in/behind it, but it will probably, eventually form a room/hallway, or link to a door in a room that already existed. So yes, it will eventually lead somewhere.


    You don't come off as annoying or rude, don't worry. Those questions are necessary to ask, or no-one would come up with the answers, and people would always be confused as to those matters. Clarifying and explaining now will make it so that the DM has less work to do when explaining it later.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Some questions about room expansion. First: do rooms expand only when no one is looking, or do they occasionally expand with people still in them? If you were in a room with the relevant door open when it expanded what would it look like? (probably a plot hook in here somewhere, but I can't find it). Also what would happen if someone was passing through a door while a room was created? would half of them be in one room and half in another... Obviously insta-killing a PC wouldn't work, but mabye doing it to an NPC to spark a quest? Probably more Questions to come but this is it for now.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Oooh, love your questions. I'll do my best to answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by hydroplatypus View Post
    Some questions about room expansion. First: do rooms expand only when no one is looking, or do they occasionally expand with people still in them?
    Well, it's always expanding, so it does when people are looking. But, maybe at an inch every hour or six? Growth spurts never happen when someone's looking, and they can grow at about 5 feet/.5 hour?
    If you were in a room with the relevant door open when it expanded what would it look like?
    The room on the other side grows... fuzzy, momentarilly, and the boundary between seems to "stretch" and turn black, and fall away (Outwards, to form the shape of the room). Color returns into the material, revealing the new room. The far room, the one that was there before, may have "turned" when the walls were "falling away", and be out of sight, but if it still is, it refocuses.
    (probably a plot hook in here somewhere, but I can't find it).
    Wizard wants to find out why a room never experiences a growth spurt when someone's looking. Sends party to investigate with various scrying devices. Party discovers evil plot by <insert BBEG> while using them to find out. Party never observes growth spurt in action, results are inconclusive.
    Also what would happen if someone was passing through a door while a room was created? would half of them be in one room and half in another... Obviously insta-killing a PC wouldn't work, but mabye doing it to an NPC to spark a quest? Probably more Questions to come but this is it for now.
    I was asking myself the same question when reading your other ones. You'd end up very... stretched. You would look like a puddle of skin stretched between two rooms with powdered bones and muscle leaking out, and no recognizable features at any point. The forces keeping most of one half of you in one, and most of the other half in another would stretch your skin so far, it would squish everything inside of it into a complete pulp.

    No, I wouldn't use it to spark a quest. You could, if it were an especially horror/gore themed campain, but I wouldn't recommend adding a room while one of your Players' character is standing in a door, or while an NPC is either.
    If a player states "I stand in the doorway indefinitely to see what happens", try to convince him otherwise, to avoid describing the above, but if he insists, say the world's creator said to tell him/her that his character would come out deformed for the act. If he insists, kill him (I mean his character! put that knife down! ).
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Alright, some thoughts. Also, if this gets big enough to have a campaign, I'd love to be a player.

    1) on Nexi: While they may be useful for a small while, I doubt many doors would stay useful long. Something like the following might happen.
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    Gnomey the Gnome has a 20' square room. He came in through the door in the "north" wall, which is two rooms away from a city. Amazingly, the "west" wall has another door, to another city. He sets up a nexus, carefully labeling where each door goes, and trying to encourage other doors to set up.

    A week later, he opens the door to the second city to find a new room! that's ok though, he redraws his line to the city that's now a room away, and life goes another. 2 days later, the other city moves a room away, so now it's 3 rooms away.

    In a month, the first city is 10 rooms away, the other 6, and there are much faster routes between the two. Gnomey goes out of business (unless a town sprung up in is [now probably larger] room)


    2: On doors: Not sure how the infinite trap would work. See the spoiler for details.
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    Side A of door one leads to side B. Side B of door two [the one that you can see in the room where you can see side B of door 1] leads to Side C (each room is labeled for the door that it is VISIBLE in, so the doors would be as follows. The rooms are in brackets, doors abbreviated to D[door number]S[side letter, and the dashes between room sides show you going form one side to another without anything between them, either because they are next to each other, or part of the same door:

    [roomA]D1SA-D1SB[roomB]D2SB-D2SC[roomC].

    You move Door 1 so that its side A is against door 2's side C, and you have the following:
    D2SB-D2SC-D1SA-D1SB[roomB]D2SB-D2SC-D1SA-D1SB, repeat. Since there is a room in the loop, there will be another door spawning eventually, therefor it's not an eternal trap.

    If you put D1SB against D2SC, you get:
    [roomA]D1SA-D1SB-D2SC-D2SB[RoomB] and then I'm not sure what happens, since the other door in this room isn't there. However, you'd be at side where door 2 originally was.

    If you put D1SA against D2SB, you get the same as above, except room C is locked in, and the door to A is missing.

    If you put D1SB against D2SB, all you do is delete room B.

    I hope that made sense.


    3) this is REALLY epic.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    1) Yes. I have said that while a Nexus would be possible, it would be inefficient, for that very reason.

    2) Took me a while to puzzle out what you were saying.
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    D1SA is in Room A, and D1SB is in room B, right? and therefor D2SB is in room B and D2SC is in room C? Let me reword your... examples? for my own benefit.

    If D1SA was portable, putting it against D2SC would result in, when someone walks through D1SB they go into D2SC, and out of D2SB; Resulting in ending up elsewhere in the same room. [roomB]D1SB-D1SA[Gap betweeen doors]D2SC-D2SB[RoomB]
    Putting D1SA against D2SB instead means that when you walk in D1SB, you come out D2SC; Resulting in heading to the same room (C from B) from a different door. [Room B]D1SB-D1SA[Gap between doors]D2SB-D2SC[RoomC]
    If D1SB was portable and put against D2SB... You would effectively remove room B from the path from room A to room C, but room B still exists. Any other doors inside the room still lead into it.

    Now for an answer:

    Putting D1SA against D1SB is the "infinite door trap" that was mentioned. The space between the doors ([SpaceBetween]D1SA-D1SB[SameSpaceBetween]D1SA-D1SB[Still the same space between], etc.) is where the tarrasque is effectively trapped.

    Unfortunately, the dash in D1SA-D1SB is where a new room may form, resulting in Room D, turning it into D1SA-D1SD, and D3SD-D3SB. If the doors were together, the result would be [Space]D1SA-D1SD[Room D]D3SD-D3SB[Space], where the tarrasque could exit from door 4, which formed inside Room D when it appeared.


    3)Thank you I do intend for this to be big enough to make a campaign in it, and if any DM is willing to run a game in this world, as un-fleshed-out as it is, and write a campaign journal logging any locations and people they described, or posted a link to the PbP (If their that kind of DM), I'd probably/maybe take a lot/some of the stuff they put in and add it to canon. Stuff like minor/major cities and minor organizations.
    But until we re-vamp a couple mechanics to work for the altered physics of the world, it might not be very easy.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Hm. So, would a nexus be more effective if one were to use a room with a single doored wall, and the rest cloth?

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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    I would say that if maintained (say by a group of 20 people) a nexus would still be useful. Due to the changing nature of the simulation people would rarely explore, making every identified route between cities very important. A nexus (if constructed) would likely have routes to several cities. (If it connects 3 or fewer it isn't really a nexus as I imagine it, so for discussion say a nexus connects 4+ population centers).

    Now as the simulation expands the distance that exists between rooms would likely expand, but if the painted lines connecting the cities are maintained then the nexus will be useful for a long time, as the routes exist and are marked. Now there probably exist shorter routes between the cities after a few days/weeks/months/whatever, but the chances of people actually knowing these routes is very low. Think about it, if you can already travel through the nexus to City B then why would you go out and look for a shorter route. Even in a months old nexus the routes will not be to long assuming the growth spurts are rare. Please provide info on frequency of spurts.

    Nexus route expiration explanation.
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    flabort posted that usual rate of growth is 1 inch every hour or 6. Assume average growth is 1 inch/hour outside of spurts,and spurts are too rare to factor into average calculations (or are canceled out by 1inch/6hours growth periods).

    This gives 2feet/day/room from normal growth. Assume that there is one room between cities and nexus to begin with, and a room has to be 20 feet by 20 feet before creating an intervening room. (yes it might create a room prior to that, but there is also a chance that this room is a side passage, and doesn't lengthen the passage. Thus I am arbitrarily taking this to be average room size when it spawns another.). These further intervening rooms would also be problematic in that they also grow, and therefore we have a situation of exponential growth on our hands...

    These assumptions give 10 days for a room to grow before spawning another room. basically distance between cities doubles every 10 days with a starting length of 20 feet. This comes out to about 15.5 miles after 4 months. This is still easily traversable if well maintained, as it only takes a little over a day at 15feet/round, which is lowest realistic move speed. After this the original route becomes more unusable as time goes on due to the effects of exponential growth (wow that kicks in quick). That being said 4 months (give or take) of time for a traversable route is still pretty good.


    This gives a route about 4 months of usable time. Short, but a smart nexusmaker could easily remedy that. Those explorers that occasionally go out to search for routes, what are they more likely to find? a completely new route between the same 2 places, or a route between his city and a place somewhere along one of the nexus' paths? In this way shorter paths that (usually) connect the nexus to the cities are constantly being found, which if the nexus maker hires enough explorers will easily outpace growth of the passages. This is even greater if the rooms and how they link follows any pattern at all, as smart explorers will find these shorter routes even faster. In this manner a nexus will be useful for a long time, until the cities cannot find enough new passages to keep the nexus functional. This would likely take a long time, allowing a nexus to be useful, and thus exist... At least in my opinion.

    Also I just realized that regular teleport will not be too useful in the simulation. 100miiles/caster level isn't too far in this environment. suppose there is a 9th level wizard who can cast teleport to go 900 miles. I have calculated (using spoilered assumptions) that after 179 days he will be unable to teleport to somthing that formerly had 1 room seperating them. an 18th level wizard will have double the standard teleport distance and will therefore have 189 days before standard teleport doesn't work. Curse you exponential growth.


    Questions:
    1. how often do spurts happen?
    2. how many wizards capable of casting greater teleport (including those that can cast it through items, summons etc.) exist? This will have a great effect on transportation networks, due to expansion. Also important as the limitations of standard teleport are discussed above.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    An additional thing to consider that would probably make the nexus useful for longer is that since it would become a transport hub, towns are likely to grow on it's routes. So while town A might be really far away, town B sprouted up in between the two, making the Nexus still useful.
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    Default Re: We've been here before... but that hallway was new!

    Well... Your estimations/calculations are pretty accurate, especially considering the lack of data to work with. This extra data may throw them off, though.

    Yes, growth spurts are rare... But, say, once every month, for 5-15 feet. This means that in four rooms, one of them will on average have a spurt each week. In 30/31 rooms, one of them is probably having a growth spurt on any given day.

    When a room "spawns", it goes through an initial "growth spurt" that puts it between 5x5x10 and 30x30x30. An intervening room on the path would probably spawn when a room grows by 15x15x05 or more, so I'd say the average room size of 20x20 that you estimated is pretty accurate.


    Wizards capable of Greater Teleport... Usually 1 or 2 /Major city (Not Tippyverse, but rather high magic), and each village or small city may have a wizard capable of Teleport, or maybe greater. But they have an extra spell, one that requires a "node" to be set up (By multiple casters at once), that lets them 'port to that node. Teleport is 5th, Greater is 7th, but their "Node" 'port is only 4th. This means that if the caster has been to the city in which the node was set up, and knows it as the target's destination, they can send that person there. It has a longer range than Teleport, but it's not limitless.

    Here's a rough write up of the spell and required spell:
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    Create Teleportation Node
    Conjuration (Teleportation)
    Sor/Wiz 6
    Components: V, S
    Casting time: 15 minutes
    Range: Touch (Objects only)
    Duration: Instantaneouse
    Saving throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    This spell creates a node at the location of the touched object for use with Nodal Teleport, a permanent fixture to which any caster capable of casting Nodal Teleport that has viewed and memorized the composition of it can return to by casting such a spell. Casting this spell requires multiple casters to cast it at once on the same target. No caster involved in the casting retains the spell slot in which they cast this, unless they do not use spell slots.

    The target distance of the Nodal Teleport spell is affected by how many casters are involved in the casting of this spell. It has an effective range of 50 miles per caster level per caster (For example, if 2 10th level casters and a 13th level caster created a node with this spell, casters up to 1,650 miles away could teleport to this node)

    Nodal Teleport
    Conjuration (Teleportation)
    Sor/Wiz 4

    This spell functions as Teleport, except that teleported creatures or objects may only travel to nodes created by Create Teleportation Node that the caster has studied for half an hour or more, and has a maximum distance determined by the Node.
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