Goblins VII: I'm TOTALLY Gonna Pee On This Thing!

[Traab]

I think this comic is having a worse impact on peoples view of the series right now because we dont know what happens next. If this took place 5 comics ago and we could just click next comic to see what happens next, I bet most of this sort of response would vanish.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I think this comic is having a worse impact on peoples view of the series right now because we dont know what happens next. If this took place 5 comics ago and we could just click next comic to see what happens next, I bet most of this sort of response would vanish.

I would agree 100% with Traab. The truth is, we don't know where Thunt is going with this.

[Marillion]

To be honest, I'd be ok with him dying permanently here. I mean, it sucks. As has been mentioned, we've invested a lot of time and emotion in Dies. And yes, it is pointless. But that in itself is the point. What makes this death horrible isn't the eternal torture (well, not just the torture); it's the senselessness of it. He senselessly sacrificed himself without even achieving his aim. If he had gotten the Orb of Bloodlight, and given it to Saves, and she'd escaped with her life, he may have been able to give himself some comfort over the centuries, that what he did was worth it... But he doesn't even have that. What could be more tragic...more horrible than that? That's what makes this such a beautifully terrible scene.

Sometimes, pointlessness is the point.

[Aquillion]

I think this comic is having a worse impact on peoples view of the series right now because we dont know what happens next. If this took place 5 comics ago and we could just click next comic to see what happens next, I bet most of this sort of response would vanish.

Next five pages:

Page one. Having killed Dies, the demon summons his spirit, then kills Saves a Fox and Klik in front of him before killing him again. The demon breaks free and murders Grem on its way out, then the entire tribe outside, including Grem's mother and her seer. Before dying, the seer hits the demon with a spell that kills it.

Cut to the Maze of Many for one page. Psymax destroys the Maze while the party is still chained up; Kin, Minmax, and Forgath all die permanently, as do all alternate versions and Psymax himself.

Cut to the GAP. The voice speaking to them is Kore, who kills them all in one page. Chief's god attempts to intercede to save them; Kore kills him, which also causes every Goblin everywhere to die. Kore then succumbs to the wounds they inflicted on him and dies himself; due to the odd magic that allowed him to keep his Paladin powers, his god dies, too.

Cut to the other adventurers, who are busy slaughtering every monster that escaped from Brassmoon City, starting a genocidal war that kills everyone everywhere. Having completed this, they die of their injuries, while declaring that they're bored with this game and won't make new characters anymore. This doesn't matter, because the aftershocks of Psymax's destruction of the Maze of Many destroys the entire Goblins dimension and all possible variations on it, forever. Midway through this destruction, it's implied that some tragic accident kills their players (and Minmax and Forgath's players, and the DM) in the real world.

Donations are now down so far that Tempts Fate dies horribly in the last goblins page, ever. Shortly afterwards, the blog is updated with the news that Thunt has had a heart attack and died -- by his wife, who has been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Shortly afterwards a meteor strikes the earth and we die. Strictly speaking, responses like the above do indeed vanish.

The end.

[The Glyphstone]

Interaction between a game world and the real world? Bah, that's just totally ripping off The Gamers.

[Draconi Redfir]

Next five pages:

*snip*

The end.

Quite the sunny optimism you got there don't you?

[Starbuck_II]

I still say Saves a Fox never entered any agreement. Dies did. So Fox could'nt break the agreement.
So that seemed sloppy of the author.

Now, just because Dies gave up his soul. Doesn't mean he loses control of it.

Spoiler

Show

My idea: He comes back and kicks the demoness's butt. What like they will kill him? Been there, done that. He has lost all fear of death after dying.
Dies casually asks Fox, "now that the demons are dead... you should look for the orb"... before Dies is sucked to the afterlife...
Which looks rather like Quantum Leap last episode. If you saw it, you know where he goes next (though not who).

[random_guy]

I find it odd that many Goblins readers find character deaths such a turn off. I still remember the Brassmoon City arc had readers complaining about how the goblins were overpowered. Some readers complained that they were able to overcome challenges that should have been too difficult for a small group of goblins. There were also comments that said character deaths at the beginning of the story were intended to set the initial tone of the story and none of the major characters had any serious consequences afterwards. Now that we've had two major characters die off, the opinions seem to have shifted and there are complaints about too many character deaths. It looks like there just isn't any way to please everyone.

In my opinion, Dies Horribly's death does make sense from a storytelling perspective. It is an example of an exercise in world building. The setting of Goblins is one in which there are many dangers and anyone can die. Too often, readers deal with stories that grant protagonists immunity to danger, so dangerous situations are not taken seriously. The recent deaths remind the readers that the setting is not Happy Fun Sunshine Land. It also demonstrates how the world works in terms of fate and prophesies. We know that prophesies do in fact come true, and the world is controlled by fate. Whatever free will exists is limited to the manipulations of higher powers that guides everyone to their final destination. His death demonstrates that the rules of the setting apply to everyone.

[Starbuck_II]

I find it odd that many Goblins readers find character deaths such a turn off. I still remember the Brassmoon City arc had readers complaining about how the goblins were overpowered.

Are you sure?
I don't remember that. Which readers? Where the few or the many?

There were also comments that said character deaths at the beginning of the story were intended to set the initial tone of the story and none of the major characters had any serious consequences afterwards. Now that we've had two major characters die off, the opinions seem to have shifted and there are complaints about too many character deaths. It looks like there just isn't any way to please everyone.

See, the thing is Dies was the main character of his story arc.
I'm not interested in Saves story, only when it was part of Dies.

[Lord Raziere]

I would agree 100% with Traab. The truth is, we don't know where Thunt is going with this.

Hah.

I don't know where life is going with anything. I'm surprised people react like this to a comic that has consistently shown stuff like this. When I don't know whats going on, whats the point of emotion making me even more confused? I can't truly react until I truly know.

[Dienekes]

I liked it. The whole setup shows Dies Horribly grow up and face his destiny on his own terms even if it was a misguided one.

Personally, I was sadder when K'seliss got offed.

[petersohn]

See, the thing is Dies was the main character of his story arc.
I'm not interested in Saves story, only when it was part of Dies.

See, that's the point here. If the only main character of the story is killed, then so is the whole story arc. Fox's story is unimportant without Dies being there.

But again, I'm 100% sure that he is not done yet. Even if he will ultimately die permanently before the end of this arc, it's not now. As I said in my last post, the Checkhov's gun is placed, so it must be fired. If the demoness can summon back killed characters, she will do that.

[teratorn]

See, the thing is Dies was the main character of his story arc.
I'm not interested in Saves story, only when it was part of Dies.

I considered dies the annoying part of this arc. I was always waiting for the hand to take over.

[The Linker]

Are you sure?
I don't remember that. Which readers? Where the few or the many?

When the shield of wonder went off and saved Complains and Big Ears? TONS of people were upset by that. They charged in against insurmountable odds and were saved by what could certainly be interpreted as random luck. The fact that no main characters died there really cheesed a lot of people off and gave a big impression of main character invulnerability.

Now, that's not my opinion. I thought that scene was awesomely fantastic, and I really don't want to start the argument up again. I'm just saying, that was controversial as hell.

[faceroll]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA he totally died horribly.

[petersohn]

Just one more thing. What is WoT and who is FMK?

[The Linker]

FMK is Forgath-Minmax-Kin.

WoT, I do not know. World of Thrones?

[Strawberries]

Wheel of Time, I think. Robert Jordan's books.

[Killer Angel]

I still say Saves a Fox never entered any agreement. Dies did. So Fox could'nt break the agreement.
So that seemed sloppy of the author.

Who knows? maybe the demon is aware of it, and its was a "hollow" threat.
Better don't trust demons...

[random11]

When the shield of wonder went off and saved Complains and Big Ears? TONS of people were upset by that. They charged in against insurmountable odds and were saved by what could certainly be interpreted as random luck. The fact that no main characters died there really cheesed a lot of people off and gave a big impression of main character invulnerability.

Now, that's not my opinion. I thought that scene was awesomely fantastic, and I really don't want to start the argument up again. I'm just saying, that was controversial as hell.

Just want to add something regarding character invulnerability:

It doesn't have to be death.
I think it's enough in most cases if a main character is harmed or changed by an event (and not just for one page until the change is forgotten).

While I see why people can complain about the shield of wonder, it's an item that got destroyed pretty fast (maybe for that reason).
Also, it changed one of the main characters even if we currently not know exactly what the implication is.

[Mastikator]

He only did it because he thought he was destined to die horribly. What a moron to believe in destiny, if he had been defiant he might not have fulfilled his own prophecy. Instead he chose everlasting torment for absolutely no reason on a complete whim.

Well, she has no reason not to kill the demons, I guess she could try, and get killed. But meh.

[LoneStarNorth]

See, the thing is Dies was the main character of his story arc.

Or was he?

[Thia]

I really don't see the drama here. A character is destined to die horribly from birth. He dies horribly. The end.
Sure, there was stuff like Saves trying to deny it, and him trying to avoid it, but it turned out in the end that none of it mattered.

Now, I'm not saying this is poor writing, and I'm not claiming to be able to see the future, but it kind of sucks if this entire arc was just for the purpose of demonstrating how destiny is set in stone.

[Seerow]

I really don't see the drama here. A character is destined to die horribly from birth. He dies horribly. The end.
Sure, there was stuff like Saves trying to deny it, and him trying to avoid it, but it turned out in the end that none of it mattered.

Now, I'm not saying this is poor writing, and I'm not claiming to be able to see the future, but it kind of sucks if this entire arc was just for the purpose of demonstrating how destiny is set in stone.

Well at least now we know for sure that Big Ears is definitely going to have big ears, and Names will always complain about names....

[Draconi Redfir]

Can we PLEASE just get off it and wait for future comics? the entire arc isnt going to end here you know

[Traab]

Can we PLEASE just get off it and wait for future comics? the entire arc isnt going to end here you know

"Remember me names?" MWAHAHAHAHA! I wish that it was april first coming up, JUST so thunt could post the first comic of a new arc to screw with our minds.

[random11]

My guess about the future:

Dies will die horribly several times, but later be somehow saved by the others.
That way it will be both fulfillment of the prophecy about his name, and keeping him a main character.

[random_guy]

@The Linker
The shield of wonder is part of what I was talking about. Some people saw the Axe of Prissan as a deus ex machina for Big Ears as well.

Dies is the main character...

Why is Dies considered the main character of this part of the story? Is it because he came from the same clan as the other goblins, or is it because he was introduced to the story at an earlier point in time? In my opinion, he was a minor player in the Viper Clan's goals of goblin supremacy. If anything, Grem, Saves, and K'seliss were more significant characters than Dies. They were part of an ongoing plot, and Dies suddenly arrived on the scene.

Well at least now we know for sure that Big Ears is definitely going to have big ears, and Names will always complain about names....

How about Forgath's death and Thaco's leadership of the clan? An additional possibility includes having the Viper Clan's best warriors die off, since the Viper Clan's fortune teller predicted their deaths. There are plenty of irrelevant details covered by prophecies that we don't care about, but the point is not the fact that prophecies are fulfilled. The point is: main characters are not immune to fate.

[petersohn]

Why is Dies considered the main character of this part of the story? Is it because he came from the same clan as the other goblins, or is it because he was introduced to the story at an earlier point in time? In my opinion, he was a minor player in the Viper Clan's goals of goblin supremacy. If anything, Grem, Saves, and K'seliss were more significant characters than Dies. They were part of an ongoing plot, and Dies suddenly arrived on the scene.

Even if he is not the most important one in terms of advancing the plot, he is definitely the viewpoint character of this arc.

[Gez]

Dies Horribly had seemingly good plot armor. K'Sellis had always been a clearly-expendable tagalong NPC, and he was approaching the point where he wouldn't have been funny anymore, so it made sense to kill him while he was still fresh rather than annoying. Chief had lost his plot armor, so his death, while serving the purpose of showing that bad things do happen to main characters, couldn't have as much of an impact as Dies' fate fulfillment.

With Dies' death, the message is really that plot armor isn't enough. Any of the character could really be killed. The author won't protect them.

The problem for the author is now to manage to convey the opposite message as well: that there is a story and a plot that is followed other than "create emotional attachment to character, then kill him pointlessly". Especially if the pointless death is more hilarious than saddening. (Come on, who didn't laugh at "what a horrible way to die. IT MUST BE MY DESTINY. *suicides*"?)