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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    WOW! You're completely right! Five seconds of character development is more than enough to gain a detailed idea of a character's traits. Alan Moore had it wrong in Watchmen: you don't need several pages of backstory, narration, and flashbacks to develop a character. Just have one sentence of exposition dialogue explaining them and a comic expression on their face in a comic that is a comedy that uses stick figures so you know, none of their expressions are too detailed.
    Rawr. Hiss hiss.

    Snark aside, nobody actually claimed what's in your strawman. All that was said is that what we do know about these characters is interesting enough that we want to know more about them, not that they're superbly developed as is.

    For what it's worth, the feeling is largely subjective. But as it stands, I do agree that I would like to learn more about the "tear down creation guy", because I found his childlike glee intriguing.

    I've said my piece. Go and ahead and rage at me, if you'd like.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    I wanna know what happened to make the Goblin Teenagers such rebels...
    It wasn't just general teenage angst?
    HUMANS....... ARE....... SUPERIORRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But she was naked! And all... articulate!!

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    WOW! You're completely right! Five seconds of character development is more than enough to gain a detailed idea of a character's traits. Alan Moore had it wrong in Watchmen: you don't need several pages of backstory, narration, and flashbacks to develop a character. Just have one sentence of exposition dialogue explaining them and a comic expression on their face in a comic that is a comedy that uses stick figures so you know, none of their expressions are too detailed.
    Well, the always the first impressions. Sometimes you see just a bit of a character and still go "Woa! That guy actually looks pretty cool. It would be neat to learn just a little bit more about him/her.

    For example: If the quoted post was my first impression of you, I'd say you seem to be very rude when you disagree with someone even in the slightest. I wouldn't really want to speak with you on these forums, because of what I've seen you'd just berate me and talk down to me if you ever happened to disagree with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Not to mention these three are basically just plot devices. I wouldn't even go so far as to call them characters. They were created only so V could get ultimate power.
    V was just created to be the know-it-all.
    Roy was just created to be the party leader.
    Durkon was just created so the party would have a cleric and a dwarf.
    Belkar was just created to combine a jolly race with a phsycopath.
    Elan was just created to be the "screws everything up into hilarity" guy.
    Haley was just created to have one distinguishable girl in the party.
    Xykon was just created to be the main villain.
    Redcloak was just created to be main villain's personal servant or something.
    The MitD was just created to be the main villain's secret weapon.
    Yeah, my point is that "X was just created so Y" can be said about any character in the entire comic.


    All that said, I don't know about the idea. They are pretty minor characters, but I would probably buy anything Rich puts out. But the chances of it happening are very low.
    Last edited by Cizak; 2011-08-21 at 04:12 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    I think that before characters get a book devoted to them, they should

    A) Have been developed to some degree in the main comic (at least to Julio Scoundrel's level of character development)

    AND / OR

    B) Have a backstory that will answer some of the "mysteries" of the main story. The Order of the Scribble would qualify.

    I don't think these three fit those criteria. It doesn't mean they couldn't be interesting characters (potentially) but I'd like to see them show up again and be further developed in the main strip before getting their own book. And to be honest I doubt I'd purchase a book devoted to them otherwise. They weren't particularly funny when they showed up in the main strip and their backstories seem like they'd be largely irrelevant in the big picture of things.
    "And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine

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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Heh, if we're going to play this game, I'd like a backstory book about Yikyik. It could feature a human rogue dressed all in black, a gnome poisoner with a very high INT score but WIS as a dump stat, a half giant that works for him initially but then goes on to work for the gnome, the 2D love interest...

    We could call it "The Kobold's Bride".....

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitzclowningham View Post
    I'd be willing to bet he had fairly detailed backstories for all three of them before writing the Mega-V storyline, just to make sure he didn't make any continuity errors and to keep their personalities consistent. I'd also bet he could make up wonderful stories about them if he chose to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I'll take that bet. What are you betting?

    Rich is generally much more into improvising than into "map out every inch of this tiny part of the story to make sure I don't contradict myself."
    Kish wins.

    Sorry, I don't know a damn thing about those three characters other than, "I need three evil souls to represent the three parts of arcane power V doesn't have (conjuration, necromancy, and spontaneous casting), and each one should have one of the three IFCC director's alignments (LE, NE, and CE)." I have no idea why, for example, Haerta developed Familicide, I just know I needed V to cast it, so she simply did. Contrary to has been suggested, the easiest way to avoid contradicting myself about their histories is to simply not decide anything about them at all. If I were to find a use for one of them later, then at least I wouldn't need to worry about changing anything.

    And as far as writing stories about them, no thanks. I don't see any appeal in writing a story where the main character is an unrepentant evil maniac, like all three of them clearly are. You'll note that Xykon isn't the main character of Start of Darkness, not really. Redcloak is. The best I could imagine would be writing a story where one of them was the villain, but that would be largely undercut by the fact that we know in advance that they are going to die and be damned to the Lower Planes.

    So, yeah...not going to happen.
    Rich Burlew


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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Talvereaux View Post
    Ganonron is likely an imperialistic, authoritative conqueror.

    Haerta is likely more sadistic than the others.

    Jephton is likely Cuckoo Bananas.
    So... A stereotypical Lawful Evil character, a stereotypical Neutral Evil character and a stereotypical Chaotic player character.

    Those really are interesting.
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  8. - Top - End - #38

    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Well, I found them interesting, and would be keen to hear more about them, especially Jephton.

    I wasn't necessarily suggesting they get their own book about them, but seeing them feature in a book more would be great.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Kish wins.
    *high fives Kish*

    Now I really wish I had posted my response on why I agreed with Kish :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Thank you, FujinAkari.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    A whole book dedicated to three guys who had just slightly more screen time than Yik Yik doesn't scream appeal.
    Actually, if look at the character appearances thread, you'l see that Jephton and Ganonron are actually higher on the list than Yikyik.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Thattaman View Post
    Actually, if look at the character appearances thread, you'l see that Jephton and Ganonron are actually higher on the list than Yikyik.
    ... thus the "slightly more screentime" part of his quote...
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Thank you, FujinAkari.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    I humbly sit corrected. Good on ya, Kish!

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    *high fives Kish*

    Now I really wish I had posted my response on why I agreed with Kish :P
    Many of us could have done that. What Rich says in the quote below is basic common storytelling sense... But yeah, I'll admit, getting vindicated by the Giant himself is pretty cool. FWIW though, NerfTW essentially challenged the statement we're talking about before Kish did.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Contrary to has been suggested, the easiest way to avoid contradicting myself about their histories is to simply not decide anything about them at all. If I were to find a use for one of them later, then at least I wouldn't need to worry about changing anything.
    Last edited by lio45; 2011-08-21 at 04:12 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The best I could imagine would be writing a story where one of them was the villain, but that would be largely undercut by the fact that we know in advance that they are going to die and be damned to the Lower Planes.
    Not true. Just because we know that a character will be dead sometime in the future (which applies to pretty much all characters) doesn't it mean that we know that the character's death will be within the book we are reading.

    Not that I think these characters necessarily needs more screen time, I just felt the need to point this out.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Kish wins.

    Sorry, I don't know a damn thing about those three characters other than, "I need three evil souls to represent the three parts of arcane power V doesn't have (conjuration, necromancy, and spontaneous casting), and each one should have one of the three IFCC director's alignments (LE, NE, and CE)." I have no idea why, for example, Haerta developed Familicide, I just know I needed V to cast it, so she simply did. Contrary to has been suggested, the easiest way to avoid contradicting myself about their histories is to simply not decide anything about them at all. If I were to find a use for one of them later, then at least I wouldn't need to worry about changing anything.
    Phantasm going to sig this? Hope so. (Kish too, I mean... THE GIANT SAYS YOU WON A INTERNET BET!)
    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    Many of us could have done that. What Rich says in the quote below is basic common storytelling sense... But yeah, I'll admit, getting vindicated by the Giant himself is pretty cool. FWIW though, NerfTW essentially challenged the statement we're talking about before Kish did.
    Giant quoting you is worth one internet. Giant vindicating your statement gives you a free internet glass of milk and a dozen internet cookies.
    Last edited by Mutant Sheep; 2011-08-22 at 11:18 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    I struggle to find any trio of insignificant characters I could care less about than those three. No, I would not buy such a book!

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    To be honest, I'd forgotten their names, so it took be a few seconds to figure out what this was about.

    I'd say that people would like to buy a book about them, but only because people would probably like to buy any OotS-related comic by Rich.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Three extremely minor characters who were characterized by Xykonish levels of evil, who interacted with no one else we've ever met during their entire lives?

    No. I can't say I would.
    Agreed with Kish here. They don't really appeal to me as characters because we know so little about them, and they seem like generic all-powerful evil characters.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    *high fives Kish*

    Now I really wish I had posted my response on why I agreed with Kish :P
    *high fives FujinAkari* Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Maniac View Post
    To be honest, I'd forgotten their names, so it took be a few seconds to figure out what this was about.

    I'd say that people would like to buy a book about them, but only because people would probably like to buy any OotS-related comic by Rich.
    In large part, I'd say this is a Catch 22. People would like to buy anything Rich puts out because of the established quality of his writing; he isn't going to write a book about the spliced trio because it probably wouldn't be very good.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Kish, you have got to sig that. One short sentence including your name indicating approval as a quote from the Giant is the height of honor and fashion. Isn't that right Fujin?
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    Kish, you have got to sig that. One short sentence including your name indicating approval as a quote from the Giant is the height of honor and fashion. Isn't that right Fujin?
    Of course! It instantly adds merit and approval to anything else you might ever post :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Thank you, FujinAkari.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    These three are better as fanfic fodder IMO. They aren't important enough to get the official prequel treatment, but they're important enough to the arc they appear in to pique my curiosity.

    And Kish better sig that. Srsly.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Haertha? Not at all. Uber powerful necromancer who destroyed and zombified everyone around could make for a good enemy to kill, but not for a good protagonist.

    The epic teleporting guy... he is more interesting. Reminds me of Khan. Still... I don't see what interest could anybody have in the story of a successful Tarquin-esque dictator.

    The sorcerer is just silly.

    Overall, no. Just no.

    Gimme a book on the Order of the Scribble, instead.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Frankly, I'd be more interested in a prequel about That Guy With A Halberd.

    The most I expect from Haerta, Ganonron and Jephton is for any of them to be recycled in an Order of the Scribble or Tarquin/Linear Guild prequel book as a minor villain, so that we can be witness of their vanquishment.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2011-08-22 at 08:02 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #55

    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    I have a hard time seeing the Order of the Scribble as plausible foes to these guys, but I guess it's not less plausible than the Order of the Stick beating Xykon, who massively, massively outpowers them with his retrospective power up. So far he's apparently a minimum of level 27-32, more than double some of the Order of the Stick's current levels.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    The most I expect from Haerta, Ganonron and Jephton is for any of them to be recycled in an Order of the Scribble [...] prequel book as a minor villain, so that we can be witness of their vanquishment.
    You know, that's what I thought exactly one minute after writing the post before yours.

    If they weren't the focus of the story... maybe they could be valid villains (although not Big Bads), and I'd be glad to see them cross swords with the Scribblers. After all, the only interesting thing is that, despite being epic level baddies who zombified people / conquered nations quite a lot... they eventually got killed and defeated (Haerta looked fairly young when she died, too). So it wouldn't be stories about omnipotent evil beings that never get what they deserve.

    The sorcerer is still silly.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlin82 View Post
    If they weren't the focus of the story... maybe they could be valid villains (although not Big Bads), and I'd be glad to see them cross swords with the Scribblers. After all, the only interesting thing is that, despite being epic level baddies who zombified people / conquered nations quite a lot... they eventually got killed and defeated (Haerta looked fairly young when she died, too). So it wouldn't be stories about omnipotent evil beings that never get what they deserve.

    The sorcerer is still silly.
    In addition, all of the three appearing, and at once, shouldn't work; it's somewhat implied that they never meet while alive, and should they have, chances are good that they should have went straight to each other's neck.

    One of them as an individual villain, as a minor boss for a short story ark (such as Bozzok, the Golem-maker, the young Black Dragon, the Bandits, etc...) would work. The sorcerer, as a one-shot joke would work fine.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Frankly, I'd be more interested in a prequel about That Guy With A Halberd.

    The most I expect from Haerta, Ganonron and Jephton is for any of them to be recycled in an Order of the Scribble or Tarquin/Linear Guild prequel book as a minor villain, so that we can be witness of their vanquishment.
    I would put bets, in that case, of the enemy being Haerta. Ganonron, as we know, controlled vast armies. And Jephton... well, he just seems too crazy for any of the Order but Soon to give a second thought too.

  29. - Top - End - #59

    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    I really hope you're wrong, and it's Jephton if they use one of them.

    Haerta would be a terrible backstory villain for the Order, not least of all as she's portrayed as mind numbingly powerful, so powerful that Xykon is nothing. How then is the Order of the Scribble going to beat her without it being embarrassing? I mean, Dorukan lost pretty handily to Xykon despite all his prep (which was dumb, but that's another point), and he's pretty clearly one of the most powerful of the Order (and Lirian lost even more easily), so it'll be tough to buy guys weaker than Xykon by a fair way standing up to someone who can probably destroy Xykon in a few rounds tops.

    It's implied heavily that Jephton is the weakest of the 3 (by a large margin), so he'd work best as a potential villain, as well as being the most interesting looking of the 3, with the coolest class type.

    Based on what we know about Ganonron and Haerta, I'd want to see them get killed by an army of gold dragons or something, including spellcasters and great wyrms, not 6 disfunctional and low level epic characters.
    Last edited by MagusBloodsoak; 2011-08-22 at 10:27 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Wouldn't people like to buy a book about the lives of Haerta, Ganonron and Jephto

    Quote Originally Posted by MagusBloodsoak View Post
    Haerta would be a terrible backstory villain for the Order, not least of all as she's portrayed as mind numbingly powerful, so powerful that Xykon is nothing. [...] I mean, Dorukan lost pretty handily to Xykon despite all his prep (which was dumb, but that's another point), and he's pretty clearly one of the most powerful of the Order (and Lirian lost even more easily)
    Stop right there.

    • According to Xykon, V was channeling the "raw unlimited energies" of two chumps who didn't have the balls to stay in the game.
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      Lirian trashed Xykon, RC and all their followers with ease. She only lost to Xykon's surprise comeback when he got back in the game.


    They're not more powerful than Xykon.
    Last edited by Raistlin82; 2011-08-22 at 12:51 PM.

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