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    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

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    Default Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    I'm creating a new Pathfinder character and I've come to a bit of a roadblock in picking his deity. The character is an alchemist who specializes in healing potions and field medicine.

    The obvious choice would be to worship Sarenrae, the goddess of the sun, healing, redemption and honesty, but to be truthful, she seems a bit too "Arabian" for a gothic sort of place like Ustalav.

    Pharasma seems okay since she's the most popular goddess in Ustalav, but she's the goddess of birth and death, which a physician DOES deal with every day, but she doesn't seem as big on the act of healing.

    The whole goal of this character is to be a healer who relies on science and medicine to help heal people instead of divine magic, but still he'd probably want someone to pray to when he needs just the right amount of precision when doing surgery. Any advice?
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Pharasma seems okay since she's the most popular goddess in Ustalav, but she's the goddess of birth and death, which a physician DOES deal with every day, but she doesn't seem as big on the act of healing.
    She doesn't? She offers the Healing domain, it seems to be a pretty strong focus from where I'm sitting.

    Her philosophy on death seems to be like Kelemvor's - you die when you're supposed to, not before and not after. That would definitely fit with a physician , especially since she also offers Knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Her philosophy on death seems to be like Kelemvor's - you die when you're supposed to, not before and not after. That would definitely fit with a physician , especially since she also offers Knowledge.
    Honestly, I don't really seeing that fitting a physician. The whole point of being a doctor is to fight death are ardently as possible.

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    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Exactly, which was why I was hesitant. Those are the only two Pathfinder deities that offer the domain, however, without going into things like the Empyreal Lords and whatnot.

    So I'm at a bit of a loss. There's no real "god of medicine" in Pathfinder.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachasor View Post
    Honestly, I don't really seeing that fitting a physician. The whole point of being a doctor is to fight death are ardently as possible.
    Fighting death, sure, but undoing it is a different story. Kelemvor cheerfully grants healing spells to stave off death, he just frowns on resurrecting the dead.

    You might be trying to be too selective - this Pharasma seems like the best you'll get.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2011-08-26 at 07:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Fighting death, sure, but undoing it is a different story. Kelemvor cheerfully grants healing spells to stave off death, he just frowns on resurrecting the dead.
    Which is why Kelemvor is no doctor.

    If a patient has been clinically dead for 5 minutes, a doctor doesn't give up. If they had the capability to do something after an hour or a day, they wouldn't give up then either.

    I say reflavor Sarenrae slightly for the gothic setting. Keep the same basic aspects but provide a different name and perhaps some other differences. The ancients decided Jupiter, Thor, and Zeus were all the same god, so you might as well take that idea and run with it. You are a follower of an aspect of Sarenrae.

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachasor View Post
    Which is why Kelemvor is no doctor.

    If a patient has been clinically dead for 5 minutes, a doctor doesn't give up. If they had the capability to do something after an hour or a day, they wouldn't give up then either.
    But in an existence when deities and an afterlife are matter of fact, the point at which someone dies marks a definite stage in spiritual progression.
    To bring someone back to life removes them from the existence they have passed into,
    You 'kill' them in their afterlife.

    I think it would be possible for a doctor in the setting to maintain the distinction between preventing and reversing death.
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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockShock View Post
    But in an existence when deities and an afterlife are matter of fact, the point at which someone dies marks a definite stage in spiritual progression.
    To bring someone back to life removes them from the existence they have passed into,
    You 'kill' them in their afterlife.

    I think it would be possible for a doctor in the setting to maintain the distinction between preventing and reversing death.
    In many settings people get mind-wiped if they go into the afterlife and don't come back, so that's a pretty good reason to not let them go quietly into that good night.

    And there really isn't much of a distinction between preventing and reversing death. The line is incredibly fuzzy, even more so in D&D honestly where Raise Dead can easily be viewed as a method of resuscitation.

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by ClockShock View Post
    But in an existence when deities and an afterlife are matter of fact, the point at which someone dies marks a definite stage in spiritual progression.
    To bring someone back to life removes them from the existence they have passed into,
    You 'kill' them in their afterlife.

    I think it would be possible for a doctor in the setting to maintain the distinction between preventing and reversing death.
    In many settings people get mind-wiped if they go into the afterlife and don't come back, so that's a pretty good reason to not let them go quietly into that good night.

    And there really isn't much of a distinction between preventing and reversing death. The line is incredibly fuzzy, even more so in D&D honestly where Raise Dead can easily be viewed as a method of resuscitation.

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachasor View Post
    In many settings people get mind-wiped if they go into the afterlife and don't come back, so that's a pretty good reason to not let them go quietly into that good night.

    And there really isn't much of a distinction between preventing and reversing death. The line is incredibly fuzzy, even more so in D&D honestly where Raise Dead can easily be viewed as a method of resuscitation.
    If they get mind wiped in their afterlife, then there's even less reason to bring them back. They'll have no recollection of their 'living' life, and so to remove them from their 'unliving' life would be ignorant of their current desires.
    Would a doctor necessarily force treatment on someone who was living comfortably without it?

    Fuzzy lines exist everywhere in medicine. Especially when it starts to cross with belief and spirituality.
    Certainly D&D is no exception, but part of our alchemist friend worshipping this deity might be to find guidance on when action is appropriate in 'fending off death' and when it transcends into 'preventing natural processes from taking place'. With the understanding that these natural processes are a continuation of one's life, not an end to it.
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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Have you consider Desna? She is a Varisian Diety and wouldn't be too far fetched for an alchemist, especially as she can inspire some one to do better.
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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachasor View Post
    Honestly, I don't really seeing that fitting a physician. The whole point of being a doctor is to fight death are ardently as possible.
    That is highly debatable and leads into such funderful areas as euthanasia, the choice between being in too much pain to move and too doped up to be aware, and other things that I'm sure will have the mods all over me if I bring up. Suffice to say I disagree.

    "Fighting death as ardently as possible" is a pretty clear path to undeath as well, something I'm sure not all or even most physicians would agree with.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    That is highly debatable and leads into such funderful areas as euthanasia, the choice between being in too much pain to move and too doped up to be aware, and other things that I'm sure will have the mods all over me if I bring up. Suffice to say I disagree.
    Fighting ardently isn't the same as not knowing when to give up. The concerns regarding euthanasia are totally different from a Raise Dead spell, unless you'd be bringing back the person into a life of pain and misery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    "Fighting death as ardently as possible" is a pretty clear path to undeath as well, something I'm sure not all or even most physicians would agree with.
    Intelligent undeath, perhaps. Though living on as a construct, reincarnation, and other options are available that don't smell as bad.

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Since your character sounds a lot more scientific and pragmatic than religious and idealistic, I think it would make sense for him to take advantage of the world's polytheistic nature and worship a range of dieties.

    While performing surgery, he may pray to Sarenrae. During childbirth, he offers prayers to Pharasma. Before daily studies, he prays to Desna.

    It's a pretty common practice in polytheism.

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Healing Gods in Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachasor View Post
    I say reflavor Sarenrae slightly for the gothic setting. Keep the same basic aspects but provide a different name and perhaps some other differences. The ancients decided Jupiter, Thor, and Zeus were all the same god, so you might as well take that idea and run with it. You are a follower of an aspect of Sarenrae.
    I second this.
    Your Character could be a member of a small sect worshipping the healing aspect of Sarenrae (or maybe Pharasma).
    The sect will focus on healing studies and "medical" knowledge.

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