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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Sneak Attack Undead

    I'm going to start a lv.6 game soon and I was thinking of playing a rogue, bur then learned that it's going to have a lot of undead.
    So my question to you playgrounders is that if there are any feats or weapon enhancements a lv. 6 player could get to be able to sneak attack undead.

    Thanks in advance!
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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Penetrating Strike (Rogue ACF, Dungeonscape, replaces Trap Sense) allows you to deal half of your SA damage to immune targets so long as they re flanked.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    The best way to do this without spending a bunch of gear is in the book Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, with a particular alternate class feature available at level 3. That version is better than the Dungeonscape version due to better wording. There are several other ways that aren't ACF based, too.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2011-08-31 at 09:39 PM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Get a custom continuous item of Grave Strike. Or buy a wand and UMD it. Or dip in Cleric, and use wands and scrolls.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    tyckspoon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    For 6th level, a wand of Gravestrike (1st level spell, swift activation, can Sneak Attack undead for 1 round. Spell Compendium.) inside a Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape) in your primary weapon is probably the most cost efficient; that should get you through until you can either afford one of the more permanent options or get through the undead phase of the campaign. Gear-wise, when you have more money to play with you can also get a Greater Truedeath Crystal (Magic Item Compendium, requires a +3 weapon to host it) or invest in a Ghost Touch + Ghost Strike (also MIC.) weapon if the campaign turns out undead-heavy enough to justify dedicating a weapon to them.

    You can also get ACFs to give you partial Sneak Attack; Complete Champion has one that only applies to Undead, but it triggers normally as Sneak Attack. Dungeonscape and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft have basically the same thing, which gives you half-dice against any sneak-attack immune creature, but it only works when you flank. All three renditions of it trade trap-sense.

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    The best way to do this without spending a bunch of gear is in the book Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, with a particular alternate class feature available at level 3. That version is better than the Dungeonscape version due to better wording. There are several other ways that aren't ACF based, too.
    The ACFs do the same thing, and have almost exactly the same wording - how is the Ravenloft one better?

    You could also buy some wands of Gravestrike (SpC) or a Greater Truedeath crystal (MIC) - but the latter costs a hefty 10,000 GP and can only be used with a +3 weapon or better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    there is also a good Skullclan Hunter PrC in the Miniatures Handbook - it grants you a lot of permanent anti-undead features, including an ability to sneak attack them, immunity to fear, disease, paralysis, ability damage/drain, and a lot of other useful stuff.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    I think the Ravenloft one specifies some more things to due with dice, so it doesn't cause arguments with whether or not your Craven feat applies?? I'd have to double check. I do remember it being clearer with regards to how it interacts with some other things...

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    The one in EtCR specifies that the damage is sneak attack damage. The one from Dungeonscape says damage equal to half your sneak attack or somesuch. That causes possible difficulty with Craven.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    The one in EtCR specifies that the damage is sneak attack damage. The one from Dungeonscape says damage equal to half your sneak attack or somesuch. That causes possible difficulty with Craven.
    But you can't be immune to fear with craven, who doesn't enjoy a feast (heroes feast)?

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Penetrating Strike (Rogue ACF, Dungeonscape, replaces Trap Sense) allows you to deal half of your SA damage to immune targets so long as they re flanked.
    The better ACF (even better than the Lightning Rogue Penetrating Strike version in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) when you know you're going to be facing undead is Death's Ruin (Complete Champion, page 51): you can sneak attack undead with ˝ the normal dice ─ and unlike Penetrating Strike, you don't need to flank them. So ranged sneak attack is a useful (and safer) option against wights, spectres, vampires, and other undead with Energy Drain.

    Because you'll only have ˝ the normal sneak attack dice, you'll really want the Craven feat (since that part of your sneak attack is not reduced); the combination gives you about 68% of normal sneak attack damage vs. undead. To offset Craven's -2 vs. fear, the Uncanny Bravery ACF (Dragon Magic, page 14) trades improved uncanny dodge (at Rogue 8) for immunity to to dragon frightful presence, and +4 vs. other fear effects.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Killer Angel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Alternatively, you can convince your DM to play PF...
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    As another alternative, I believe there's a crystal in Magic Item Compendium, that allows sneak attack vs a particular type that's normally immune. There's different crystals for undead, constructs, etc. If I can get to my book later on, and nobody else confirms, I'll look it up.
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Zherog is correct, a Greater True Death augmentation crystal will set you back 10,000 gold, but it adds 1d6 to all attacks against undead, acts as a ghost touch weapon, and allows your sneak attack to function at full strength, you might also want to pick up a Greater Demolition crystal as well, bonus 1d6 versus constructs, is treated as adamantine for the purposes of overcoming their damage reduction, and allows your full sneak attack, all for only 6,000 gold.
    All the PC's in this campaign are CRAZY!

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Problem is, greater augment crystals can't be added to weapons of less than +3, so aren't usable at low level, unless the DM is very generous with magic weapons.
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Dee_Twenty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    True enough, still it's an option to keep in mind for later.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Deathstrike Bracers (MIC, p. 93) might be worth it as well. 3/day you can crit and SA constructs, elementals, oozes, plants and undead for 1 round. 5000gp, swift (mental) activation.

    Greater Truedeath Crystal is № 1 Rogue's best friend vs. undead, but usually obtainable after lvl10.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Item Compendium

    GHOST STRIKE
    [SYNERGY]
    Price: +1 bonus
    Property: Melee weapon
    Caster Level: 11th
    Aura: Moderate; (DC 20) conjuration
    Activation: —
    Synergy Prerequisite: Ghost touch
    Fine tendrils of white smoke slowly rise from
    this weapon’s surface.
    A ghost strike weapon functions as a
    ghost touch weapon (DMG 224). In addition,
    sneak attacks and critical hits made
    with a ghost strike weapon against an
    undead creature affect it as if it were a
    living creature.
    Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and
    Armor, undeath to death.
    Anyone post this yet?

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    TheJake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Get a custom continuous item of Grave Strike. Or buy a wand and UMD it. Or dip in Cleric, and use wands and scrolls.
    Seconded.

    - J.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by TurkeyBlizzard View Post
    Anyone post this yet?
    That's another minimum +3 cost weapon. All magic weapons must be +1 before other enhancements, and [Synergy] weapons must have all synergy prerequisites as well.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Sun blade? Not optimal but it becomes 2d10+8 against undeads and you can crit vamps with it...and dual wield them.

    Expensive/Dm fiat related? Sure.

    I also second the Skullclan hunter, it's want you want here.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Isn't there an alternative Sun Blade in EtCR?

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Honestly, if you know for a fact that there's going to be a lot of undead, then it seems counter productive to play a Rogue and spend resources on being able to attack them. In particular, it seems like a good idea to get access to Rebuke Undead.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    In the "same but different" category, have you thought about a Scout/Ranger with the Swift Hunter feat? The feat lets your Scout and Ranger levels stack for your skirmish and favoured enemies, PLUS you can always apply skirmish damage to your favoured enemies, even if normally immune to precision damage. Take undead as one of your favoured enemies, and you're in business. Choose to put your second +2 into undead as well and you're doing a flat +4 on top of your skirmish and regular weapon damage, which is better than an extra d6 on average.

    So you still get a good skill list and lots of skill points, better HD, and better BAB. Depending on which side you like to level up, you get animal companion, combat style, and eventually spells from ranger or some cool benefits from scout, like initiative bonuses.

    Of course, there are drawbacks to this as well. No full attacking for skirmish, must move 10', slower +d6 progression. At the same time, no need for flanking.

    BONUS IDEA: Get pounce somehow, spell/feat/1 level of barbarian (spirit lion totem) and you can full attack with skirmish on a charge. Get Improved Skirmish feat and you can add extra damage. Get TWF and go to town.

    Then again, none of this may fit the flavour you were going for.
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    That's another minimum +3 cost weapon. All magic weapons must be +1 before other enhancements, and [Synergy] weapons must have all synergy prerequisites as well.
    How is that a +3? It requires ghost touch, but thats only an additional +1.

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    +1 base enhancement so you can put special properties on it at all, +1 Ghost Touch, +1 Ghost Strike = +3 equivalent weapon. It's nice for higher levels when you can spare money for a special-purpose weapon, but you'd usually be better off attaching a Greater Truedeath crystal to a more general-use weapon.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by TurkeyBlizzard View Post
    How is that a +3? It requires ghost touch, but thats only an additional +1.
    +1 for the base enhancement that allows you to add other enhancements
    +1 for ghost touch
    +1 for ghost strike

    That's a total of +3
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    Spamalot in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    Alternatively, you can convince your DM to play PF...
    This is my recommendation. The PF Rogue got some very neat goodies and is still balanced (T3?) - ask your DM to let you use that.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    +1 base enhancement so you can put special properties on it at all, +1 Ghost Touch, +1 Ghost Strike = +3 equivalent weapon. It's nice for higher levels when you can spare money for a special-purpose weapon, but you'd usually be better off attaching a Greater Truedeath crystal to a more general-use weapon.
    Base enhancement bonus? Are you refering to it being masterwork? That only costs like 300gp?

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sneak Attack Undead

    No, they are referring to the fact that,
    Quote Originally Posted by d20 SRD: Magic Weapons
    A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

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