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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerameshu View Post
    Major: It's in a list of rules that I've been implementing. DR sent me the link to it directly so that I can update the SEP system, but that was before ASoL jumped back in. As of right now, I can't actually remember where I posted it, so I can't check if it was removed, but if I can, I'm putting it back in there before ASoL revamps the system. Speaking of which...

    AShadowofLife: Mind if I send you a PM about that SEP system revamp?

    Edit: Major, that tiny rules errata said suppress, not seal. It doesn't seal your Shikai, just suppresses your Reiatsu. They can still see your Shikai, and you can still use it, but they can track your Reiatsu anymore.
    Sorry if this is a double post, Giantitp forums is acting up. On one hand it SAYS I'm the newest post, but I can't see my post.

    I see. Seem a bit iffy as it eliminates a big downside. But then again, I'm of the opinion that it really isn't that powerful since all it does is means you are stronger during the ambush round. (like I compared to it earlier being uncanny dodge).

    On a side note, let me know if that is a legit rule and is added somewhere. If so I get an extra feat in DR's game.

    Again, sorry if this is a double post I'll delete the old one.

    If that rule is added what is the point of the feat

    Suppression Mastery [Reiatsu]

    Prerequisite: Suppress Reiatsu 10 ranks.
    Benefit: When using the Suppress Reiatsu skill, utilizing Kido, Shikai, or any other ability (with the exception of Bankai) does not drop your Suppress Reiatsu.
    Edit: Deleted the double post. It started working =_=
    Last edited by Major; 2011-09-13 at 05:18 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Not to be rude, but would it be possible for the general public to see the revised Spiritual Energy System? Just for balance concerns and such, y'know?
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Shadow Lord: Not rude at all. The only reason I cited it in the first place is that I can no longer find it on the wiki.

    Major: I'm not going to say you do get an extra feat, or deny you one, but I am going to say that this rule is only valid if you begin with progression level 8 (Insane). That being said, I'm also curious as to what ASoL will be doing with the SEP system...
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    One thing to note is that I can't seem to see the wind type zanpakto's shikai abilities on the wiki. Is anyone else having this problem?
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    They haven't been uploaded yet, since... Well, people kept whining about how Specialized is weak, and didn't comment on them. I'll get them up in a little bit.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerameshu View Post
    Shadow Lord: Not rude at all. The only reason I cited it in the first place is that I can no longer find it on the wiki.

    Major: I'm not going to say you do get an extra feat, or deny you one, but I am going to say that this rule is only valid if you begin with progression level 8 (Insane). That being said, I'm also curious as to what ASoL will be doing with the SEP system...
    Started with 8. Kinda. I rolled 8, traded it for a 4, then traded my 4 for a 7. Then I took the feat at creation to boost it to 8. And I know you don't decide, but if that is a rule that means I get it :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    One thing to note is that I can't seem to see the wind type zanpakto's shikai abilities on the wiki. Is anyone else having this problem?
    Its on the pdf.

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Mage-King View Post
    They haven't been uploaded yet, since... Well, people kept whining about how Specialized is weak, and didn't comment on them. I'll get them up in a little bit.
    Wait...they were posted somewhere? I'd comment on them, but I've not seen it.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    I may or may not revamp the system.. I have contemplated adding in SP costs for certain types of shikai powers, to help balance things, as that was my original intention for the SEP system. So that you couldn't blast away for 6 weeks, automatically. >> <<

    Go ahead and PM about the revamp.

    Also, the DC 15 check was implemented because -someone- wanted there to be a way to conceal it. *Cough cough* I think it was DR *Cough cough* but my memory sucks about things several months ago.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by AShadowofLife View Post
    I may or may not revamp the system.. I have contemplated adding in SP costs for certain types of shikai powers, to help balance things, as that was my original intention for the SEP system. So that you couldn't blast away for 6 weeks, automatically. >> <<

    Go ahead and PM about the revamp.

    Also, the DC 15 check was implemented because -someone- wanted there to be a way to conceal it. *Cough cough* I think it was DR *Cough cough* but my memory sucks about things several months ago.
    Makes sense. He did add the charisma option to blood just so his vampire could use it :P

    On a side note I looked at force and I gotta say... WHAT?

    It gains the healing of ice/fire. Damage that is resisted by almost nothing. Ability to easily render a target immobile. Better DR than any other DR granting ability. (Even Barrier). The ability to redirect damage back.

    It's basically barrier, but better along with aggressive abilities and a few healing abilities. I realize Bleach is OP, but force just made Barrier almost useless. AC Boost being the only thing barrier gets. Barrier only gets DR 2, can't redirect, and now force also gets the walls.

    Mind isn't too broken, but it seems to get more abilities than any other school. It seems the most customizable. Not as big a deal.

    Plant seems rather cool. It is however the only Shikai to require another type to use its ability. But it is a cool ability.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    force seems a bit overpowering:

    force blade: this works the same as wind's wind blade, but instead of reducing the damage by 1 step it instead makes it ignore protection.

    pressure blade: all of the other surround abilities do 2d4, which is quite a nice bonus. no reason for force to get 2d6 forget that it's been changed on others too...

    deep pressure: maybe apply it to the item thay's hit, not directly to the person hit, as as it stands, one hit on anyone and they're going to be well into medium encumberance without even carying anything. to keep an effect, maybe make it count like they're using a weapon of 1 size cat up but only for penalties (eg - 2 per hit)

    force armour: every other dr is 2 per use, even the ones from other diciplines, this is 1/2 your level. far to overpowering.

    healing ability; I don;t think force should have every ability ever, so please drop this

    that discipline is a no brainer as it stands, as it's far to powerfull

    edit: if you're changing them, it'd be pertinent to change the summon ability to have a cooldown/limit of uses, as right now it's very, very powerful since you can spam-summon it
    Last edited by BlackestOfMages; 2011-09-13 at 06:30 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages View Post
    force seems a bit overpowering:

    force blade: this works the same as wind's wind blade, but instead of reducing the damage by 1 step it instead makes it ignore protection.

    pressure blade: all of the other surround abilities do 2d4, which is quite a nice bonus. no reason for force to get 2d6 forget that it's been changed on others too...

    deep pressure: maybe apply it to the item thay's hit, not directly to the person hit, as as it stands, one hit on anyone and they're going to be well into medium encumberance without even carying anything. to keep an effect, maybe make it count like they're using a weapon of 1 size cat up but only for penalties (eg - 2 per hit)

    force armour: every other dr is 2 per use, even the ones from other diciplines, this is 1/2 your level. far to overpowering.

    healing ability; I don;t think force should have every ability ever, so please drop this

    that discipline is a no brainer as it stands, as it's far to powerfull
    Especially when you realize all that is force. Thus meaning little blocks or resist it. It's basically lots of other types combined and powered up and on top of that with zero resistance.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    I think that Force is superfluous, and should go. As for Wind abilities, yep. About a page or two ago.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Force was meant to be removed from my file, but DR added stuff before I could tell him such.. heh.

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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Major: Just realized that about Plant. I may change some of that around, given DR's and ASoL's permission. Thus far, my job has been to plug missing things in, but I would like to get into fixing things up soon.

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    And, looking through Barrier and Force types, I'm rather certain that the focus of Barrier is your defensive abilities, while Force can be thought of as a 'Combat Oriented Generic' Type. Some offense, some defense, but not much else. Also, the DR from Barrier Type cannot be overcome by Force Type.


    Oh. Well, I see, ASoL.
    Last edited by Nerameshu; 2011-09-13 at 06:35 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by AShadowofLife View Post
    I may or may not revamp the system.. I have contemplated adding in SP costs for certain types of shikai powers, to help balance things, as that was my original intention for the SEP system. So that you couldn't blast away for 6 weeks, automatically. >> <<
    I also support this. Throughly.



    As for revamping SEP...


    Mind posting that here? That way we can look it over and discuss it.


    Thinking about it, I kinda feel like we need to remove the top two levels of SE, and make them only accessable via feat, but I'm not sure...
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    This was a projected possibility.
    Renamed to Spirit Points for SEP, so now can just call it SP <<

    Spiritual Energy Progression;
    Level Below Average Average Above Average High
    1 0 0 2 2
    2 0 1 6 7
    3 0 2 11 14
    4 1 6 17 22
    5 2 11 25 32
    6 6 17 35 46
    7 11 25 46 61
    8 17 35 58 77
    9 25 46 72 95
    10 35 58 88 115
    11 46 72 106 141
    12 58 88 126 169
    13 72 106 147 198
    14 88 126 170 229
    15 106 147 195 262
    16 126 170 221 300
    17 147 195 250 341
    18 170 221 280 383
    19 195 250 311 426
    20 221 280 343 470


    Bonus SP: (Kido casting stat modifier x level) + (Constitution modifier x level)
    Last edited by AShadowofLife; 2011-09-13 at 06:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by AShadowofLife View Post
    This was a projected possibility.
    Renamed to Spirit Points for SEP, so now can just call it SP <<

    Spiritual Energy Progression;
    Level Below Average Average Above Average High
    1 0 0 2 2
    2 0 1 6 7
    3 0 2 11 14
    4 1 6 17 22
    5 2 11 25 32
    6 6 17 35 46
    7 11 25 46 61
    8 17 35 58 77
    9 25 46 72 95
    10 35 58 88 115
    11 46 72 106 141
    12 58 88 126 169
    13 72 106 147 198
    14 88 126 170 229
    15 106 147 195 262
    16 126 170 221 300
    17 147 195 250 341
    18 170 221 280 383
    19 195 250 311 426
    20 221 280 343 470

    Bonus SP: (Kido casting stat modifier x level) + (Constitution modifier x level)
    So it cuts off the top three, and strengthens the bottom two?

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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    It goes from 8 categories to 4. >>
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    I'm gonna be completely honest; I don't like it. I can't exactly express why I don't like it, but I don't.
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    I rather like it. Then again, it matters less to me since I'll be playing the Dedicated Warrior Feature. And, regardless of your progression, you'll be getting bonus SP every level.
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    I kinda agree with shadowlord - I feel the current system is better. this way you really get punished for wanting to play a character who excells at kido, which I dislike the idea of even if the character dosen;t appeal to me

    never mind, just noticed the bonuses option, which makes it a bit fairer. though, tbh, you could just give everyone one progression, and then add in feats to increase the points per level/spiritual density of the caster, as with zankaputo abilties potentially costing points now* your character could be rendered impotent by rolling a 1 here.

    also, is the action point thing going to be changed, as as it stands the rules say it's 1 sep for that bonus to the roll, which is very strong for the ammount

    *which they should, as it'd help balance it out
    Last edited by BlackestOfMages; 2011-09-13 at 07:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Lord View Post
    I'm gonna be completely honest; I don't like it. I can't exactly express why I don't like it, but I don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages View Post
    I kinda agree with shadowlord - I feel the current system is better. this way you really get punished for wanting to play a character who excells at kido, which I dislike the idea of even if the character dosen;t appeal to me
    ^This. I've not played a Kido user so I don't know. But this.

    Also, I was under the impression that bonus was once or total not every level? Otherwise the bonus could get pretty nice with even a decent con and wis.

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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Well, right now, this is running of a modified version of columns 2, 3, 4, and 5. What if we used the columns 3, 4, 5, and 6?
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerameshu View Post
    Well, right now, this is running of a modified version of columns 2, 3, 4, and 5. What if we used the columns 3, 4, 5, and 6?
    that might be better

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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Could do that.

    Could also tweak it from Level x Kido casting stat (+) the con one, to either or.

    And the point of not having the same progression for everyone is because not everyone has the same amount of reiryoku.

    Also, feats are already iffy in number. Or at least they are for a Kido Shini. (Speaking from the Shinigami side.)
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by AShadowofLife View Post
    Could do that.

    Could also tweak it from Level x Kido casting stat (+) the con one, to either or.

    And the point of not having the same progression for everyone is because not everyone has the same amount of reiryoku.

    Also, feats are already iffy in number. Or at least they are for a Kido Shini. (Speaking from the Shinigami side.)
    true, that's why I suggest giving them the dense spiritual pressure ability when they take the class, to represent their reitsu.

    I just think, with now there being a 1/4 chance of being shafter by the roll rather than a 1/8, and even the sword now potentially having a cost to use, a random roll can kill someones character at generation, which should never happen.

    the idea of using 4, 5, 6, 7 from before would work will because each of them GETS spiritual power that's noticieable without being high leveled

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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages View Post
    true, that's why I suggest giving them the dense spiritual pressure ability when they take the class, to represent their reitsu.

    I just think, with now there being a 1/4 chance of being shafter by the roll rather than a 1/8, and even the sword now potentially having a cost to use, a random roll can kill someones character at generation, which should never happen.

    the idea of using 4, 5, 6, 7 from before would work will because each of them GETS spiritual power that's noticieable without being high leveled
    True. I'll work a bit with this. See what I come up with and will post it here.
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    I do have to say I dislike the idea of Shikai abilities using SEP. Right now rolling low sucks, but only if you want to use Kido.

    If shikai abilities cost SEP that means if you roll one you will forever suck at everything. Kido, shikai, flashstep, etc.

    One roll should determine 100% of your power. SEP is still a nice thing to have because even the non-kido users have the action points so it isn't WASTED sep.

    Anyways, just my opinion. Leave Brittney Shikai alone!
    Last edited by Major; 2011-09-13 at 07:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Right now rolling low sucks, but only if you want to use Kido.
    Exactly. It only hurts you if you roll low.

    And want to use Kido. Don't want to use Kido? Doesn't matter. This to me, is a small problem.. <<

    Hence why I will rework the progression to be passable even for a low roll.
    Last edited by AShadowofLife; 2011-09-13 at 07:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    I do have to say I dislike the idea of Shikai abilities using SEP. Right now rolling low sucks, but only if you want to use Kido.

    If shikai abilities cost SEP that means if you roll one you will forever suck at everything. Kido, shikai, flashstep, etc.

    One roll should determine 100% of your power. SEP is still a nice thing to have because even the non-kido users have the action points so it isn't WASTED sep.

    Anyways, just my opinion. Leave Brittney Shikai alone!
    Or at least at it to point buy. And have the bonus apply even if you don't use kidou.

    If they cost SP, it needs to be balanced so that stronger abilities (like wounding) cost more.

    Also. The guys working on the project changing something just so his character works? Not cool man, not cool.
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    Default Re: Bleach D20: The Return!

    Quote Originally Posted by AShadowofLife View Post
    Exactly. It only hurts you if you roll low.

    Hence why I will rework the progression to be passable even for a low roll.
    My point was that by making everything (shikai, flash step, kido, etc) rely on SEP it is basically making something MAD, but with a separate stat you don't pick to put a roll into.

    Example: Let's say I roll SEP and roll a 1 or 2. Ok, whatever, so I won't be the best Kido user. I don't care I plan on being a dedicated warrior. Sure I won't have many action points but big deal.

    Now by making EVERYTHING rely on Kido a characters Tier and power will be 100% dependent on one roll. Even if "No matter what its passable" you will compare yourself.

    Example:
    *Current System*
    I roll a 1 as a dedicated warrior. No big deal, I'm still useful and having an 8 wouldn't really matter to me. I won't fall behind.

    *Suggested System*
    I roll a 1 as a dedicated warrior. No shikai. Uhhhh so what am I good at? I can't use Kido, shikai, flash step, etc. In EVERY area I'm weaker.

    It would be like if Wizards introduced a new stat and said "This stat determines what feats a fighter can take, what spells a wizard can cast, what type of animal companion a druid and ranger can have, your class ability progression, etc etc."

    It forces EVERY class to need something and balance is no longer determined with class, but with a single roll.

    A dedicated warrior isn't normally overshadowed by a Kido user or a specialist shikai or a multi-type shikai. All are about equal but do different things. Now that single roll will determine the extent of your power. Those that roll 1s will be like a fighter in a group with a wizard (8).

    It will hurt the balance side BADLY.

    Do NOT make everything use SEP >.> Adding the bonus was nice. It means you can still do your job, but have a use for SEP, but missing it won't hurt. Setting up a system where you can't use any of your own abilities sucks.

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