A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 58
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago Suburbs
    Gender
    Male

    Default A Players Guide to Incarnum

    I've looked around, but I don't see a finished guide to MoI. I've never written a guide before, but Pelor knows I've read hundreds. I could potentially write a guide without totally screwing it up.

    Is this something the playground could use?
    Last edited by TroubleBrewing; 2011-09-10 at 01:56 AM.
    Iron Chef Award!

    Spoiler
    Show

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    The closest thing to a MoI guide is Sinfire's work over at BG's forum(I think that's where it is).

    Honestly, what the system needs is a way to tell, level by level, what progressing as a particular soulmelder gives you.

    I'll try and put something together on that front and post back in about 3 years.(J/k on the time estimate)

    Edit:

    Nevermind, forgot I tried to do that before and my brain imploded on figuring out how to organize it. Any suggestions?
    Last edited by Godskook; 2011-09-10 at 02:07 AM.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago Suburbs
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    If you wanna work with me on this, that'd be cool. We can do this over PM if you want.
    Iron Chef Award!

    Spoiler
    Show

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Eh, might as well make this the brainstorming thread and then re-post when we got something more cohesive than "we're making a guide; no really!"
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jjeinn-tae's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Washington

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Jjeinn loves Incarnum, maybe he can help. Don't know how helpful I'd really be contributing to something like this, but if I think of something I'll chime in.

    ...Gotta see which melds are most useful for each class... mumble...
    Game systems I play: DnD 3.5, Pathfinder, Star Wars Saga, Vampire: The Masquerade, Dungeons: The Dragoning, AFBME, Atomic Highway, Dark Heresy, Legend of the 5 Rings 4E, MAID and... EQRPG... Does anyone actually play that?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago Suburbs
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Eh, might as well make this the brainstorming thread and then re-post when we got something more cohesive than "we're making a guide; no really!"
    Fair. Seems like a better plan than just diving right in and hitting our heads on the bottom when it turns out that we suck at it. (That metaphor got rapidly out of my control...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jjeinn-tae View Post
    Jjeinn loves Incarnum, maybe he can help. Don't know how helpful I'd really be contributing to something like this, but if I think of something I'll chime in.
    Feel free to chime all you like!
    Iron Chef Award!

    Spoiler
    Show

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Totemist Soulmelds by 'level'(just shaping this post):

    Shaping:
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head] Name|Shape|invest|Rating|Chakra

    Ankheg Breastplate|Armor bonus|bigger bonus|situational|Throat
    Basilisk Mask|low-light vision|darkvision|situational|Brow
    Beast Tamer Circlet|Bonus on Handle Animal and Wild Empathy|Bigger bonus|Weak|Crown
    Behir Gorget|Bonus against BR and Trip|electric resistance|situational|Throat
    Blink Shirt|Dimension Door|range|great|Heart
    Blood Talons|as Diehard|Bonus on Spot|situational|hands
    Brass Mane|Bonus on Intimidate|bigger bonus|situational|Throat
    Disenchanter Mask|Detect Magic|Range|situational|Brow
    Displacer Mantle|Bonus on Hide|bigger bonus|situational|Shoulder
    Dread Carapce|-attack/+damage|higher tradeoff|good|Arms, Feet, Heart
    Frost Helm|as Endure Elements|cold resistance|situational|Crown
    Girallon Arms|Bonus on Grapple and Climb|bigger bonus|situational|Arms
    Gorgon Mask|Bonus on Fort Saves and against combat maneuvers|bigger bonus|weak|Throat
    Great Raptor Mask|Bonus on Spot|bigger bonus|situational|Brow
    Heart of Fire|Bonus when fighting cold creatures|bigger bonus|weak|Waist
    Hunter's Circlet|Bonus on Heal and Survival|bigger bonus|situational|Crown
    Kraken Mantle|Bonus on Swim|faster swim speed|weak|Arms
    Krenshar Mask|Bonus on Jump and Move Silently|bigger bonus|situational|Brow
    Kruthik Claws|Bonus on Hide and Move Silently|bigger bonus|good|Hands, Shoulders
    Lamia Belt[Evil]|Bonus on Bluff and Hide|bigger bonus|situational|Waist
    Lammasu Mantle[Good]|Deflection Bonus against [Evil]|Resistance bonus to saves against [Evil]|situational|Arms, Shoulders
    Landshark Boots|Bonus on Jump|bigger bonus|weak|Feet
    Manticore Belt|Bonus on Jump and Spot|bigger bonus|situational|Waist
    Pegasus Cloak|Feather Fall and bonus on Jump|bigger bonus|great|Shoulders
    Phase Cloak|Bonus on Climb, take 10|bigger bonus|situational|Shoulders
    Phoenix Belt|Endure Elements|Fire Resistance|situational|Waist
    Rage Claws|as Diehard|survive longer|good|Hands
    Riding Bracers|Bonus on Handle Animal and Ride|bigger bonus|situational|Arms
    Shadow Mantle|Bonus on Listen|bigger bonus|situational|Shoulders
    Shedu Crown[Good]|Can't be pushed|bonus on saving throws against [mind-affecting]|weak|Crown, Heart
    Sphinx Claws|Bonus on Strength skills and checks|bigger bonus|situational|Hands
    Threefold Mask of the Chimera|Can't be flanked|bonus on Search and Spot|weak|Crown, Soul
    Totem Avatar|Bonus HP|Natural Armor bonus|great|Arms, Feet, Heart, Shoulders
    Unicorn Horn|Bonus on Wild Empathy and Move Silently|Bigger bonus|situational|Brow
    Urskan Greaves|Bonus when moving on snow or ice|cold resistance|situational|Feet
    Winter Mask|Touch fatigues target|damage on touch attack|situational|Throat
    Worg Pelt|Bonus on Hide and Move Silently|bigger bonus|good|Feet, Hands
    Wormtail Belt|Natural Armor bonus|bigger bonus|good|Waist
    Yrthak Mask|Bonus on Listen|bigger bonus|situational|Brow[/table]


    My ratings:
    Great - In a rush? Just slap that on your build. Trust me, it'll work.
    Good - Not quite 'great', but you don't really need to think about these past knowing what they do.
    Situational - Usually quite good if you need it, but can be quite bad when you don't. Use your brain, and plan ahead.
    Weak - Either outdone, unneeded, or only notable in extreme cases that won't typically come up. Optimizers and Desperate men can find uses for them, but don't expect it to be nearly as often as other melds.

    Note: These judgements are based *PURELY* on the shaped benefits. Girallon's Arms is a situational shaped meld, a situational Arms bind, but a good/great Totem bind, as an example.
    Last edited by Godskook; 2018-03-03 at 08:30 PM.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    I disagree on pegasus cloak. Even at low levels, dragonborn (wings) is way superior to it. I wouldn't rate it "Great". "Good", maybe, for the jump check.

    Also, Totem Avatar? A few extra HP? That aren't even temp? Nah, not enough benefit to offset.

    Rageclaws typically provides a better cushion of HP for less essentia invested.

    And where are the Dragon Magic melds?

    Personal experience on Yrthak mask: +6-10 on listen is usually very good. Whether it's trying to detect the beastie on the other side of the door... Eavesdropping... finding that darn sneaky thing... Listen is solid.
    Last edited by candycorn; 2011-09-10 at 05:00 AM.
    All of this has happened before...
    and all of this will happen again.

    Moving. Internet access is a bit spotty.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    I disagree on pegasus cloak. Even at low levels, dragonborn (wings) is way superior to it. I wouldn't rate it "Great". "Good", maybe, for the jump check.
    I'm sorry, but "this one race-template hybrid does it better if you pick option #3" is not a valid argument for downgrading the status of a soulmeld when there's an additional 50+ races out there, a good 10+ of which are as common or moreso.

    Same point goes for Raptoran.

    I'd agree that it gets dropped into situational on Raptorans, Winged Dragonborns, and similar fellows, but I feel that this isn't common enough to warrant anything.

    Also, nets.

    And finally, the rating is 95% for the feather fall effect. Jump isn't a great skill, and optimizing for it is something that'd fall squarely into the situational rating(and there its outdone by Manticore Belt, which gives bonuses to two skills instead of one, making Pegasus Cloak a weak choice for the Jump bonus).

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Also, Totem Avatar? A few extra HP? That aren't even temp? Nah, not enough benefit to offset.

    Rageclaws typically provides a better cushion of HP for less essentia invested.
    1.Rageclaws, quite honestly, is more likely to get you killed than Totem Avatar, since often times, falling unconscious will 'break aggro' long enough for someone to heal you or the fight to end(and then be healed/stabilized).

    2.Max essentia capacity is ~7. The 'cushion' provided by this theoretical max is 21. Totem Avatar provides just about that much, more evenly per level, and does so without any investments of any sort.

    3.The cushion from TA is also essentia free, meaning you're not committed to using your Essentia to keep yourself from insta-dying like you are with Rage claws.

    4.TA provides AC and HP, while Rage claws only provides effective HP.

    I'm pretty sure I got that one right, especially since Rage Claws are rated as 'good'(and not situational)

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    And where are the Dragon Magic melds?
    Geez, give me a chance to do them, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Personal experience on Yrthak mask: +6-10 on listen is usually very good. Whether it's trying to detect the beastie on the other side of the door... Eavesdropping... finding that darn sneaky thing... Listen is solid.
    A solid skill(among the top 4ish among soulmeld shapes), but I was using the metric of "it takes 2 skills to be situational". Probably could bump it up to situational if there's not a different meld that does it better(goes to check).

    And just checked, and the meld is already marked situational. I think you're misunderstanding how good 'situational' is, and by that, I mean that if I marked something situational, it means that its good enough that if you like it, want it, or need it in your situation, take it, but its not going to be among my top 10 general purpose melds to shape.

    I'll admit that the melds that give bonuses to spot and listen are probably the ones that sit closest to the border between "situational" and "good". Eh, I'll think about it, hear what others have to say, and we'll go from there.
    Last edited by Godskook; 2011-09-10 at 05:41 AM.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    I'm sorry, but "this one race-template hybrid does it better if you pick option #3" is not a valid argument for downgrading the status of a soulmeld when there's an additional 50+ races out there, a good 10+ of which are as common or moreso.

    Same point goes for Raptoran.

    I'd agree that it gets dropped into situational on Raptorans, Winged Dragonborns, and similar fellows, but I feel that this isn't common enough to warrant anything.

    Also, nets.

    And finally, the rating is 95% for the feather fall effect. Jump isn't a great skill, and optimizing for it is something that'd fall squarely into the situational rating(and there its outdone by Manticore Belt, which gives bonuses to two skills instead of one, making Pegasus Cloak a weak choice for the Jump bonus).
    Come on now... Feather Fall is a situational boost. You may use it one encounter out of 10. That's the very DEFINITION of situational.

    Compare to listen, which is useful in most encounters, over the course of a day. Or even jump, which will see use in a wide variety of environments, and getting up to being able to reliably make a 10 foot jump from a standing start (DC 20) can have a solid effect on where you can go.

    No. You overvalue feather fall. There are cheap items that grant feather fall for those occasional situations when you need it. Heck, even the arcane caster of the group can cast one on the fall, and hit the whole group.

    No. Just no. It's nowhere near that valuable. Peddle that snake-oil if you want... Doesn't make it worth buying.

    No skill does listen better than the Yrthak mask. +4(+2) is as good as it gets.

    Also, totemist can get around 8-9 essentia in a meld, eventually.

    Totem Avatar gives you 1hp/ level.

    That's nothing for a class with a Con focus. Let's look at the difference between 12 and 13 HP at level 1. Nothing.
    Between 106 and 116 at level 10? Enemies here will be swinging enough to make this worthless. Don't believe me? Look at the damage of a Hill giant at this level.
    Between 250 and 270 hp at level 20? You're dealing with 100 damage hits. Worthless.

    The nat armor bonus is strictly inferior in every way to wormtail belt.

    And you're rating this above Yrthak mask.

    It is my sincere opinion that you vastly, VASTLY, VASTLY undervalue the use of skills. When a skill finds a use in most encounters, major boosts to that skill are not "situational". They are "regular".

    When you fall in a pit once a month, because you failed your jump check that you devalued? Well, feather fall will help you. That's "situational". Come to think of it, if you never invest in jump, I can see how Feather Fall may be more useful. By that logic, you should be rating the climb melds up, though, for all the climbing you'll have to do after you've feather falled.
    Last edited by candycorn; 2011-09-10 at 05:50 AM.
    All of this has happened before...
    and all of this will happen again.

    Moving. Internet access is a bit spotty.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Come on now... Feather Fall is a situational boost. You may use it one encounter out of 10. That's the very DEFINITION of situational.
    Feather Fall is like a seat belt. You probably don't need it most of the time, but when you do, you're probably dead if you didn't use it. Getting it as an always-on shaped effect at level 1 is quite powerful, and something that works throughout the your career too.

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Compare to listen, which is useful in most encounters, over the course of a day. Or even jump, which will see use in a wide variety of environments, and getting up to being able to reliably make a 10 foot jump from a standing start (DC 20) can have a solid effect on where you can go.
    1.Listen is already a Totemist class skill, meaning that you can get a decent listen check without a soulmeld. Having more can be useful, but its not something I'd shape on an average day. Immunity to falling damage is.

    2.You're misreading the jump skill. The listed jump check is DC 40. You double the table listing when making a standing start jump.

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    No. You overvalue feather fall. There are cheap items that grant feather fall for those occasional situations when you need it. Heck, even the arcane caster of the group can cast one on the fall, and hit the whole group.

    No. Just no. It's nowhere near that valuable. Peddle that snake-oil if you want... Doesn't make it worth buying.
    1.Let's not bring Schrodinger's Wizard into this, especially cause there's no guarantee that the wizard is even going to be with the totemist, or even be in the party.

    2.A ring of feather fall doesn't count as 'cheap' until level ~8. Before that, its a major purchase, and that's assuming a DM who stays to WBL.

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    No skill does listen better than the Yrthak mask. +4(+2) is as good as it gets.
    I agreed that Yrthak Mask may warrant being bumped up a notch, but conditional on actually waiting to hear what others think. Give it more than 30 minutes at 6am Eastern, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Also, totemist can get around 8-9 essentia in a meld, eventually.
    Correction: They can get around 8-9 essentia in their Totem Bind. The class offers no benefit any other soulmeld, and I'm not evaluating binding benefits.

    Considering that the feat doesn't self-stack, how the hell are you getting that high on a non-totem bind for a Totemist?

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Totem Avatar gives you 1hp/ level.

    That's nothing for a class with a Con focus. Let's look at the difference between 12 and 13 HP at level 1. Nothing.
    Between 106 and 116 at level 10? Enemies here will be swinging enough to make this worthless. Don't believe me? Look at the damage of a Hill giant at this level.
    Between 250 and 270 hp at level 20? You're dealing with 100 damage hits. Worthless.

    The nat armor bonus is strictly inferior in every way to wormtail belt.

    And you're rating this above Yrthak mask.
    1.I personally prefer Wormtail belt at low levels, just so I can stack AC to high heaven, but AC + HP > AC - 2, in my opinion.

    2.Yes, I rate defensive stats on a melee above skill-monkey stats. Go figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    When you fall in a pit once a month, because you failed your jump check that you devalued? Well, feather fall will help you. That's "situational". Come to think of it, if you never invest in jump, I can see how Feather Fall may be more useful. By that logic, you should be rating the climb melds up, though, for all the climbing you'll have to do after you've feather falled.
    Really, a strawman argument? Can we not do those?
    Last edited by Godskook; 2011-09-10 at 06:22 AM.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Feather Fall is like a seat belt. You probably don't need it most of the time, but when you do, you're probably dead if you didn't use it. Getting it as an always-on shaped effect at level 1 is quite powerful, and something that works throughout the your career too.
    A level appropriate fall will almost NEVER kill you, unless you've already taken some damage. You're overstating a threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    1.Listen is already a Totemist class skill, meaning that you can get a decent listen check without a soulmeld. Having more can be useful, but its not something I'd shape on an average day. Immunity to falling damage is.
    I suppose we disagree on the use of boosting a class skill to the point where a totemist can be an effective scout, vs a situationally effective ability, by your own admission.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    2.You're misreading the jump skill. The listed jump check is DC 40. You double the table listing when making a standing start jump.
    YOU'RE misreading the jump skill. The base DC for a 10 foot jump is DC 10. Once doubled for a standing jump, it's DC 20.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    1.Let's not bring Schrodinger's Wizard into this, especially cause there's no guarantee that the wizard is even going to be with the totemist, or even be in the party.
    True, there's no guarantee. Just like there's no guarantee there will be a massive 200 foot fall around every corner, just a-waitin' for that totemist. If only the totemist has his meld shaped, then in such a situation, the totemist is gonna be shelling out 15,000 in gems for those resurrection spells on the rest of the party, who were so unfortunate as to have this absolutely can't live without ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    2.A ring of feather fall doesn't count as 'cheap' until level ~8. Before that, its a major purchase, and that's assuming a DM who stays to WBL.
    Check the MIC. There are 1 shot items in the couple hundred gold range. Useful for a situational effect, and cheap enough to cover it WITHOUT wasting a limited resource.

    In short, you're shoehorning the totemist into a melee-only role, without recognizing that the melds allow a totemist to be a scout one day, an offensive melee the next, and a skirmisher after that. Yeah, if you want to say "totemist must melee or totemist bad" then yeah, you may have a point that a negligible defensive boost may rate higher than a significant detection skill boost.
    Last edited by candycorn; 2011-09-10 at 06:26 AM.
    All of this has happened before...
    and all of this will happen again.

    Moving. Internet access is a bit spotty.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    My ratings:
    Situational - Usually quite good if you need it, but can be quite bad when you don't. Use your brain, and plan ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Feather Fall is like a seat belt. You probably don't need it most of the time, but when you do, you're probably dead if you didn't use it. Getting it as an always-on shaped effect at level 1 is quite powerful, and something that works throughout your career too.
    Feather fall - Rarely needed, and useless when you don't, but "Quite good when you need it".

    So.... Why is this not situational, again? YOUR OWN WORDS rate this as precisely your own definition of situational.
    All of this has happened before...
    and all of this will happen again.

    Moving. Internet access is a bit spotty.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Orc in the Playground
     
    flumphy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    A level appropriate fall will almost NEVER kill you, unless you've already taken some damage.
    You're assuming that the DM will stick to "level-appropriate" falls. That is a very, very big assumption, one that doesn't really play out in my experience. I consider myself to have more of a gamist mentality than most on these boards, and even I go more by verisimilitude than level-appropriateness when it comes to falling distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Check the MIC. There are 1 shot items in the couple hundred gold range. Useful for a situational effect, and cheap enough to cover it WITHOUT wasting a limited resource.
    And gold isn't a limited resource?

    Most groups don't really need or want versatile characters, unless you have extremely hit or miss attendance. Most people build with an expected role in mind. If for some reason you're building a scout totemist, then of course that's the better option. Otherwise, I would argue that the skill boost is equally situational if not more so.
    Last edited by flumphy; 2011-09-10 at 06:40 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by flumphy View Post
    You're assuming that the DM will stick to "level-appropriate" falls. That is a very, very big assumption, one that doesn't really play out in my experience. I consider myself to have more of a gamist mentality than most on these boards, and even I go more by verisimilitude than level-appropriateness when it comes to falling distance.
    Yes, I am assuming that the DM sticks to level appropriate challenges. I also assume that the DM won't send a level 4 party against a CR 11 dragon, because this is something the game is not designed around.

    True. Bad DM's will mean this is more valuable. I will concede that if the DM has 300 foot dropoffs on narrow mountain ledges requiring DC 25 balance checks, at level 3, that Feather Fall is essential to such campaigns.

    Can we move on from extremely situational and anecdotal examples?
    Quote Originally Posted by flumphy View Post
    And gold isn't a limited resource?

    Most groups don't really need or want versatile characters, unless you have extremely hit or miss attendance. Most people build with an expected role in mind. If for some reason you're building a scout totemist, then of course that's the better option. Otherwise, I would argue that the skill boost is equally situational if not more so.
    Sure. Gold's limited. In the thousands, even at low levels.
    Compare to the number of melds you get.

    You can argue what you wish, but arguing without any cogent points is like... moving a F-150 without gas. You'll end up red in the face, and won't get very far.

    Listen can determine encounter start range, deny enemies surprise rounds, grant your team a surprise round, locate enemies in conditions of darkness and fog, detect hiding/invisible enemies, eavesdrop on distant conversations, and more.

    Calling that situational is like calling a bonus to attack rolls situational. Having 2 people that can hear, or spot? That means there's a fallback, in case of a single poor role. It's called "redundancy", and makes groups more sturdy, and less vulnerable to poor rolls.
    Last edited by candycorn; 2011-09-10 at 06:56 AM.
    All of this has happened before...
    and all of this will happen again.

    Moving. Internet access is a bit spotty.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Feather fall - Rarely needed, and useless when you don't, but "Quite good when you need it".

    So.... Why is this not situational, again? YOUR OWN WORDS rate this as precisely your own definition of situational.
    Because I'm very bad about relaying different contexts using the same words, and the internet just amplifies that a hundred fold?

    On the other side of this, I really don't understand why you're so gritty about this. Of your original points:

    1.I've agreed that I should at least reconsider melds that give a bonus to listen checks, and I'm waiting to see what Grey and others think.

    2.The totem avatar vs rage claws thing kinda stopped

    3.You think that Pegasus Cloak is over rated

    You've made your points, I've heard them, and we'll see what's to be said by others.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Imagination Land
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Any chance on getting a similar list for Incarnate soulmelds?
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

    Watch me draw and swear at video games.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But there's already a pretty decent handbook for this on BG: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa....php?topic=551. Not stopping you from writing your own thing obviously, but at least this'll probably help as it's pretty well organized.
    My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Any chance on getting a similar list for Incarnate soulmelds?
    Here's my to-do list on the subject:
    1.Totemist
    1a.Shaped soulmelds
    1b.Totem bound soulmelds
    1c-1L.Other chakra bound soulmelds
    1m.Non-MoI soulmelds
    2.Incarnate(see Totemist)
    3.Soulborn(see Totemist)

    I've got a ways to go before I'm cranking out the Incarnate ones, but I'm working on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But there's already a pretty decent handbook for this on BG: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa....php?topic=551. Not stopping you from writing your own thing obviously, but at least this'll probably help as it's pretty well organized.
    Not to dis the best(and only, really) guidebook to have existed for MoI over the duration of years(and he's really got some good stuff in there), but that guide is 3 years old, unfinished, and fails to do the most important thing to do when dealing with meldshaping: separate low-level effects from high-level effects.

    The Totemist Handbook evaluates soulmelds in chunks, and is the equivalent of evaluating Alter Self based on what you can do with Shapechange.

    No, the standard for MoI guides has not been held to the same bar that, say, a wizard's guide would be, where there's a level-by-level breakdown of what you can get and when, allowing people to plan their builds better and better understand what the class is capable of at any given level.

    (Again, I'm not really criticizing Sinfire's work. His handbooks are the only reason I could even learn Incarnum in the first place, so queue the line about peeing far off the shoulders of giants)
    Last edited by Godskook; 2011-09-10 at 07:30 AM.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago Suburbs
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But there's already a pretty decent handbook for this on BG: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa....php?topic=551. Not stopping you from writing your own thing obviously, but at least this'll probably help as it's pretty well organized.
    Oh, I'm aware of sinfire's work. It actually sparked my own interest in creating a guide.

    The main problem is the lack of explanation on the subject of Essentia and Incarnum itself. I'd like to explain to newer players (in simpler terms than the book does) how the system works, as well as providing optimization tips and a table or two on the soulmelds. Things can get pretty hectic in MoI.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    1.I've agreed that I should at least reconsider melds that give a bonus to listen checks, and I'm waiting to see what Grey and others think.
    Listen is easily one of the top 4 most useful skills in 3.5. I think it should stay where it's at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    3.You think that Pegasus Cloak is over rated
    It isn't. Not in the slightest. First off, yeah, you can have a ring of feather fall. However, you've only got two ring slots, and this will save you one.

    Second, as it is a Totemist-only meld, it aids Jump checks, which is good for any melee build that might even have the slightest taste of the delicious nectar of Leap Attack.

    Third, if you bind it to one of two different slots, one being the totem slot, you get a fly speed. At 2nd level. That's the earliest fly speed available to non-Warlocks, unless I'm totally wrong.
    Last edited by TroubleBrewing; 2011-09-10 at 07:29 AM.
    Iron Chef Award!

    Spoiler
    Show

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    Listen is easily one of the top 4 most useful skills in 3.5. I think it should stay where it's at.
    I think you misunderstood the debate then. Candycorn was arguing that listen-based soulmelds should be given a higher rating, not a lower one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    It isn't. Not in the slightest. First off, yeah, you can have a ring of feather fall. However, you've only got two ring slots, and this will save you one.

    Second, as it is a Totemist-only meld, it aids Jump checks, which is good for any melee build that might even have the slightest taste of the delicious nectar of Leap Attack.

    Third, if you bind it to one of two different slots, one being the totem slot, you get a fly speed. At 2nd level. That's the earliest fly speed available to non-Warlocks, unless I'm totally wrong.
    1.While the two-slots thing is notable due to how shaping works, I'm explicitly limiting that section to shaped effects only. There'll be separate tables for evaluating the different chakra binds.

    2.The fly speed is so weak on the Totem bind that I find it completely underwhelming, especially when compared to the Incarnate soulmeld, which debateably gives bonafide flight once you bind them to your feet chakra. Considering how integral a good totem bind is to being a Totemist, I'd probably never bind Pegasus Cloak to it, over just about every other totem bind out there. I'd say weak, or situational at best.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    Listen is easily one of the top 4 most useful skills in 3.5. I think it should stay where it's at.
    Where it's at is "situational". I don't see how one of the top four skills in existence is "meh".

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    It isn't. Not in the slightest. First off, yeah, you can have a ring of feather fall. However, you've only got two ring slots, and this will save you one.
    MIC, 163. Life Ring. 400gp item. Feather fall. If it's occasional use, that's the unslotted item.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    Second, as it is a Totemist-only meld, it aids Jump checks, which is good for any melee build that might even have the slightest taste of the delicious nectar of Leap Attack.
    Landshark is better for jumping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    Third, if you bind it to one of two different slots, one being the totem slot, you get a fly speed. At 2nd level. That's the earliest fly speed available to non-Warlocks, unless I'm totally wrong.
    Starspawn is a feat available to level 1 characters, with modest flaw use. The totem fly speed is incredibly limited. A decent jump will take you farther.

    And the list is built solely on the utility of the shaping, not the chakra bind.
    All of this has happened before...
    and all of this will happen again.

    Moving. Internet access is a bit spotty.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Jump isn't a great skill
    Well, you need a decent jump bonus to use Landshark Boots on lower levels, and the cloak helps there. (I'm currently playing a totemist with -7 jump modifier. So much for shaping them boots. )

    Cheapest feather fall item I know of is Feather Fall Talisman (Sharn - The City of Towers), which is 50 gp one-shot trinket, but that's neither here nor there.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago Suburbs
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Wow, I really ought to get more sleep. I just re-read what I posted, and I sound like a damn lunatic. Disregard that whole post.
    Iron Chef Award!

    Spoiler
    Show

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Totem Binds:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Ankheg Breastplate - For very early levels, probably a strong single natural weapon attack, given that you can get at least 3 dice of damage off it. However, bite attacks are easy to get, and later game, you'll probably do better with several of the other soulmelds if you're stacking damage at all. The shaped bonus is also synergistic, helping give you an AC worth being in melee with.
    Basilisk Mask - A short range full-round gaze attack that still gives fort save for a 1 round benefit? Not great. I'm sure there's ways to make it work, but its not really going to be synergistic with most builds.
    Beast Tamer Circlet -
    Behir Gorget - Like Ankheg, but less synergy when shaped. And considering that things which deal electric damage often also have resistance or immunity to it as well, the situations where this is notably useful are probably rare.
    Blink Shirt - Incredibly good in any circumstance where you can make good use of a standard action before teleporting away. However, Totemists are typically built as bruisers, and devoting your Totem to an escape maneuver is typically not a good idea. Remember you have this option though.
    Blood Talons - Strictly worse than Rage Claws, and occupies the same chakra. Only notable for the investment bonus if you somehow find a way to get more claw attacks, easiest via Double Chakra with Girallon Arms chakra bind. A lot of hoops for not much pay off.
    Brass Mane - Another bite attack, but with enhancement bonus on investment. Again, Ankheg is better in most circumstances where you want a Bite attack from your Totem.
    Disenchanter Mask - A debuffing totem bind. I can see it being useful, but the highly limiting nature of using it makes me wary. If you're new to MoI, leave this one to the experts.
    Displacer Mantle - Primarily notable for being the first(alphabetically) Totem bind to give multiple attacks. Doesn't play nice with natural attack builds and can't be used on a Standard Action. Still, between the bonus reach and the double attacks, you can probably do some interesting things with this early in your career.
    Dread Carapace - Save vs Fear whenever you charge. Awesome in fear-based charger builds(there's ways with Barbarians). Mediocre whenever you don't stack fear effects.
    Frost Helm - Semi-AoE standard action stun that might last longer than a round? Can be a great asset, but use it with caution, and bring friends with Scythes.
    Girallon Arms - Generally speaking, probably the most powerful Totem bind in the game for natural attack builds. 4 claws that 'play nice' with other natural attacks.
    Gorgon Mask - Trample attack is incredibly useful when fighting mooks at low levels. Probably not a default bind, but if you know you're going to be fighting large amounts of mooks, this can get useful real fast. Especially cause there's no attack roll. Just a reflex save for half.
    Great Raptor Mask - Evasion. Probably most notable if you're trying to enter some prestige class you shouldn't otherwise get into.
    Heart of Fire - Doesn't give natural attacks, but does give you bonus damage on them. You pretty much have to build for it to make this at all worth while, and you're probably going to get more mileage out of simply grabbing Shape Soulmeld(Thunderstep Boots) from the Soulborn list. Fire is also probably the most commonly resisted element, so yeah.
    Hunter's Circlet - Limited scent and a bonus when tracking, but still requires the Track feat. Incredibly weak. If you need scent, go to ToB.
    Kraken Mantle - Water Breathing. Highly situational, but when you need it, you need it.
    Krenshar Mask - Standard action frightening, that can be repeated as nauseum. Another one of those "good at low-levels or if you build for it" soulmelds.
    Kruthik Claws - 2 claws that both deal bonus acid damage/essentia. Can probably come out ahead of Girallon Arms in the first few levels, and finally, a bind that's better than Ankheg, despite being a different natural attack.
    Lamia Belt[Evil] - Claws that don't use your arms. Handy if you're using a weapon for some odd reason. Actually stacks with Girallon arms for 6 claws if you go Double Chakra.
    Lammasu Mantle[Good] - Good early game as a way to get a high-dice breath weapon for the level. Scales poorly with level compared to Dragonfire Adept. Deals fire damage, which is a bad damage type. Short range doesn't help much either.
    Landshark Boots - Psuedo pounce with 4 claw attacks, all at your best bonus. Probably the best early game natural attack bind. Girallon Arms are just better once you're stacking attacks though.
    Manticore Belt - Notable, especially if you're too squishy compared to what you're fighting.
    Pegasus Cloak - Really bad psuedo-fly, but available at level 2. Weak, imho.
    Phase Cloak - Bite attack with poison on it? Can be very potent, but use with caution. You're often times going to be better with Landshark, Kruthik, or Girallon.
    Phoenix Belt - 3x3 fireball that you gotta stand in the middle of. The damage is good, but you'll almost always do better with Lammasu.
    Rage Claws - Other than being almost strictly better than Bloodtalons, I'm not liking these. They're good, but its the brawling synergy with shaped effect that really makes them notable compared to more damaging options.
    Riding Bracers - No, just no. The shaped effect plus any skill point investment gives you 95% of what you'd bind this to your totem for. Should be set on fire. (This is the first time I've said this while writing this guide)
    Shadow Mantle - And wow, twice in a row, I want to set a totem bind on fire. Hide is a good skill check, but the 20+ times you can do it as a shaped effect makes giving it as a Totem Bind epic fail. Totem's your signature bind, and one of the most powerful. Replicating a shaped meld effect is *NOT* a good choice. Y'know what? (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
    Shedu Crown[Good] - Same trample, different chakra. Same evaluation as Gorgon Mask
    Sphinx Claws - Another 2 claw bind, and no more notable than the others.
    Threefold Mask of the Chimera - Notable for being able to occupy your Soul Chakra, which you're just not going to use otherwise. Outside of that, it doesn't play nice with natural attack builds, making it a subpar choice for that purpose, and is inferior to Landshark as a stand-alone attack bind.
    Totem Avatar - Synergy with natural attack builds, but you're probably going to need Double Chakra before you even care that this exists.
    Unicorn Horn - A gore attack. Handy to know you have for when you want to Double Chakra(gore is a rare natural attack), but is fairly lackluster outside of that purpose.
    Urskan Greaves - I...really don't know about the overrun option, but my instincts tell me that this isn't useful.
    Winter Mask - The cold brother to Ankheg.
    Worg Pelt - Bite attack. I'm getting sick of Bite attack totem binds by now.
    Wormtail Belt - Only notable in espionage settings as a way to paralyze opponents you've already defeated. Mid combat, the str poison probably won't be noticeable compared to higher damage options.
    Yrthak Mask - Decent damage, good range, touch attack, second best element. All good points. I like it, even if I'd personally rather have a different bind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Well, you need a decent jump bonus to use Landshark Boots on lower levels, and the cloak helps there. (I'm currently playing a totemist with -7 jump modifier. So much for shaping them boots. )
    Your point quotes me out of context. Like really out of context.
    Last edited by Godskook; 2011-09-11 at 01:03 AM.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Your point quotes me out of context. Like really out of context.
    I was just saying (for the conversation in general) that at lower levels you might need Jump bonuses where you can get them. Getting them on the side of Feather Fall isn't a bad call.

    [Edit]: I'd point out Sphinx Claws have the highest damage dice, and before you take Multiattack are probably the best damage after Landshark Boots.
    Last edited by Greenish; 2011-09-10 at 07:09 PM.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But there's already a pretty decent handbook for this on BG: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa....php?topic=551. Not stopping you from writing your own thing obviously, but at least this'll probably help as it's pretty well organized.
    As stated above, not really what this thread is about.


    Although he probably has a few posts saved explaining how everything works. Anyone here got a BG account?

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Shaping Kraken Mantle doesn't exactly give you swim speed*, and the Totem Bind is just constant Waterbreathing.


    *Swim speed would mean you don't need to roll to move, that you get +8 racial (instead of competence of the soulmeld) bonus to swim checks, and can take 10 with them.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    Is this something the playground could use?
    It's certainly something I'd like to see.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: A Players Guide to Incarnum

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Crown):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Beast Tamer Circlet - Animal Trance, at-will(or 1/combat). I can't see it being useful in D&D, or in combat at all. Also doesn't work for stealth missions since it involves singing/chanting. I don't think its worth it.
    Frost Helm - Semi-AoE standard action stun that might last longer than a round? Can be a great asset, but use it with caution, and bring friends with Scythes.
    Hunter's Circlet - Limited scent and a bonus when tracking, but still requires the Track feat. Incredibly weak. If you need scent, go to ToB.
    Shedu Crown[Good] - Same trample, different chakra. Same evaluation as Gorgon Mask
    Threefold Mask of the Chimera - Notable for being able to occupy your Soul Chakra, which you're just not going to use otherwise. Outside of that, it doesn't play nice with natural attack builds, making it a subpar choice for that purpose, and is inferior to Landshark as a stand-alone attack bind.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Feet):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Dread Carapace - Save vs Fear whenever you charge. Awesome in fear-based charger builds(there's ways with Barbarians). Mediocre whenever you don't stack fear effects.
    Landshark Boots - Psuedo pounce with 4 claw attacks, all at your best bonus. Probably the best early game natural attack bind. Girallon Arms are just better once you're stacking attacks though.
    Totem Avatar - Synergy with natural attack builds, but you're probably going to need Double Chakra before you even care that this exists.
    Urskan Greaves - I...really don't know about the overrun option, but my instincts tell me that this isn't useful.
    Worg Pelt - Bite attack. I'm getting sick of Bite attack totem binds by now.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Hands):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Blood Talons - Strictly worse than Rage Claws, and occupies the same chakra. Only notable for the investment bonus if you somehow find a way to get more claw attacks, easiest via Double Chakra with Girallon Arms chakra bind. A lot of hoops for not much pay off.
    Kruthik Claws - 2 claws that both deal bonus acid damage/essentia. Can probably come out ahead of Girallon Arms in the first few levels, and finally, a bind that's better than Ankheg, despite being a different natural attack.
    Rage Claws - Other than being almost strictly better than Bloodtalons, I'm not liking these. They're good, but its the brawling synergy with shaped effect that really makes them notable compared to more damaging options.
    Sphinx Claws - Another 2 claw bind, and no more notable than the others.
    Worg Pelt - Bite attack. I'm getting sick of Bite attack totem binds by now.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Arms):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Dread Carapace - Save vs Fear whenever you charge. Awesome in fear-based charger builds(there's ways with Barbarians). Mediocre whenever you don't stack fear effects.
    Girallon Arms - Generally speaking, probably the most powerful Totem bind in the game for natural attack builds. 4 claws that 'play nice' with other natural attacks.
    Kraken Mantle - Water Breathing. Highly situational, but when you need it, you need it.
    Lammasu Mantle[Good] - Good early game as a way to get a high-dice breath weapon for the level. Scales poorly with level compared to Dragonfire Adept. Deals fire damage, which is a bad damage type. Short range doesn't help much either.
    Riding Bracers - No, just no. The shaped effect plus any skill point investment gives you 95% of what you'd bind this to your totem for. Should be set on fire. (This is the first time I've said this while writing this guide)
    Totem Avatar - Synergy with natural attack builds, but you're probably going to need Double Chakra before you even care that this exists.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Brow):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Basilisk Mask - A short range full-round gaze attack that still gives fort save for a 1 round benefit? Not great. I'm sure there's ways to make it work, but its not really going to be synergistic with most builds.
    Disenchanter Mask - A debuffing totem bind. I can see it being useful, but the highly limiting nature of using it makes me wary. If you're new to MoI, leave this one to the experts.
    Great Raptor Mask - Evasion. Probably most notable if you're trying to enter some prestige class you shouldn't otherwise get into.
    Krenshar Mask - Standard action frightening, that can be repeated as nauseum. Another one of those "good at low-levels or if you build for it" soulmelds.
    Unicorn Horn - A gore attack. Handy to know you have for when you want to Double Chakra(gore is a rare natural attack), but is fairly lackluster outside of that purpose.
    Yrthak Mask - Decent damage, good range, touch attack, second best element. All good points. I like it, even if I'd personally rather have a different bind.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Shoulder):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Displacer Mantle - Primarily notable for being the first(alphabetically) Totem bind to give multiple attacks. Doesn't play nice with natural attack builds and can't be used on a Standard Action. Still, between the bonus reach and the double attacks, you can probably do some interesting things with this early in your career.
    Kruthik Claws - 2 claws that both deal bonus acid damage/essentia. Can probably come out ahead of Girallon Arms in the first few levels, and finally, a bind that's better than Ankheg, despite being a different natural attack.
    Lammasu Mantle[Good] - Good early game as a way to get a high-dice breath weapon for the level. Scales poorly with level compared to Dragonfire Adept. Deals fire damage, which is a bad damage type. Short range doesn't help much either.
    Pegasus Cloak - Really bad psuedo-fly, but available at level 2. Weak, imho.
    Phase Cloak - Bite attack with poison on it? Can be very potent, but use with caution. You're often times going to be better with Landshark, Kruthik, or Girallon.
    Shadow Mantle - And wow, twice in a row, I want to set a totem bind on fire. Hide is a good skill check, but the 20+ times you can do it as a shaped effect makes giving it as a Totem Bind epic fail. Totem's your signature bind, and one of the most powerful. Replicating a shaped meld effect is *NOT* a good choice. Y'know what? (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
    Totem Avatar - Synergy with natural attack builds, but you're probably going to need Double Chakra before you even care that this exists.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Throat):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Ankheg Breastplate - For very early levels, probably a strong single natural weapon attack, given that you can get at least 3 dice of damage off it. However, bite attacks are easy to get, and later game, you'll probably do better with several of the other soulmelds if you're stacking damage at all. The shaped bonus is also synergistic, helping give you an AC worth being in melee with.
    Behir Gorget - Like Ankheg, but less synergy when shaped. And considering that things which deal electric damage often also have resistance or immunity to it as well, the situations where this is notably useful are probably rare.
    Brass Mane - Another bite attack, but with enhancement bonus on investment. Again, Ankheg is better in most circumstances where you want a Bite attack from your Totem.
    Gorgon Mask - Trample attack is incredibly useful when fighting mooks at low levels. Probably not a default bind, but if you know you're going to be fighting large amounts of mooks, this can get useful real fast. Especially cause there's no attack roll. Just a reflex save for half.
    Winter Mask - The cold brother to Ankheg.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Waist):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Heart of Fire - Doesn't give natural attacks, but does give you bonus damage on them. You pretty much have to build for it to make this at all worth while, and you're probably going to get more mileage out of simply grabbing Shape Soulmeld(Thunderstep Boots) from the Soulborn list. Fire is also probably the most commonly resisted element, so yeah.
    Lamia Belt[Evil] - Claws that don't use your arms. Handy if you're using a weapon for some odd reason. Actually stacks with Girallon arms for 6 claws if you go Double Chakra.
    Manticore Belt - Notable, especially if you're too squishy compared to what you're fighting.
    Phoenix Belt - 3x3 fireball that you gotta stand in the middle of. The damage is good, but you'll almost always do better with Lammasu.
    Wormtail Belt - Only notable in espionage settings as a way to paralyze opponents you've already defeated. Mid combat, the str poison probably won't be noticeable compared to higher damage options.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Heart):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Blink Shirt - Incredibly good in any circumstance where you can make good use of a standard action before teleporting away. However, Totemists are typically built as bruisers, and devoting your Totem to an escape maneuver is typically not a good idea. Remember you have this option though.
    Dread Carapace - Save vs Fear whenever you charge. Awesome in fear-based charger builds(there's ways with Barbarians). Mediocre whenever you don't stack fear effects.
    Shedu Crown[Good] - Same trample, different chakra. Same evaluation as Gorgon Mask
    Totem Avatar - Synergy with natural attack builds, but you're probably going to need Double Chakra before you even care that this exists.

    Totem Binds by Chakra(Soul):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Threefold Mask of the Chimera - Notable for being able to occupy your Soul Chakra, which you're just not going to use otherwise. Outside of that, it doesn't play nice with natural attack builds, making it a subpar choice for that purpose, and is inferior to Landshark as a stand-alone attack bind.
    Avatar by Assassin89
    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •