New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 50 of 50 FirstFirst ... 254041424344454647484950
Results 1,471 to 1,495 of 1495
  1. - Top - End - #1471
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Page 171, its still irritating finding the one exception to the "Ignore Examples" rule
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    Drow avatar @ myself

  2. - Top - End - #1472
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Page number, if you will? I've been referencing the SRD because it's more convenient, but if the books have an actual citation, then you should have just said so earlier.
    You missed the example in my post, 5 for fireball is for a wizard, it'd be 6 for the Sorc, because he gets spells later that's his minimum.

    I said right there in the post that the minimum level for the spell to be cast is dependent on the class casting it not the spell it self.

    If your class gives you spells at a different progression it will change what your minimum caster level is, lets take remove curse as an example.

    Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 4
    So for a Bard 7th, a Cleric 5th, a Paladin 5th, Sorc 8th, Wiz 7.

    Same spell, different minimum caster level for each class.
    Last edited by TypoNinja; 2013-01-15 at 02:19 AM.
    A man once asked me the difference between Ignorance and Apathy. I told him, "I don't know, and I don't care"

  3. - Top - End - #1473
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by TypoNinja View Post
    You missed the example in my post, 5 for fireball is for a wizard, it'd be 6 for the Sorc, because he gets spells later that's his minimum.

    I said right there in the post that the minimum level for the spell to be cast is dependent on the class casting it not the spell it self.

    If your class gives you spells at a different progression it will change what your minimum caster level is, lets take remove curse as an example.



    So for a Bard 7th, a Cleric 5th, a Paladin 5th, Sorc 8th, Wiz 7.

    Same spell, different minimum caster level for each class.
    I didn't miss anything. It's just that you failed to actually cite anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  4. - Top - End - #1474
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TuggyNE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Have we thought of a name for the new thread? I suggest "Well that went well".

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Is anyone bored enough to compile a list of actual dysfunctional rules from the thread, and of rules that appear dysfunctional but are actually not (like the Ur-Priest one)? It would help us avoid repeats.
    Yeesh that would be a massive task. I might be able to whip up a spreadsheet for myself or someone else to maintain, though. (Especially if we get a bunch of collation done by various posters.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

  5. - Top - End - #1475
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    I didn't miss anything. It's just that you failed to actually cite anything.
    Uhhh the spell list of each class? Combined with the listed spell progressions for each class?

    Page whatever the hell each one starts at in the PHB, its the last third of the book you can't miss it. The Classes section is pretty big too, also hard to overlook.
    Last edited by TypoNinja; 2013-01-15 at 05:28 AM.
    A man once asked me the difference between Ignorance and Apathy. I told him, "I don't know, and I don't care"

  6. - Top - End - #1476
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sith_Happens's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Dromund Kaas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    Minimum CL for a magic Missile is then 3 because the cleric has to invest at least CL3 in the spell.
    Class level =/= caster level. A Cleric with the Force domain needs at least three Cleric levels to cast Magic Missile, because that's the level at which she gets a 2nd level domain slot. Generally, a third level Cleric will have a Cleric caster level of three.

    However, if that Cleric somehow had the Mage Slayer feat, she could then cast Magic Missiles with a caster level of -1, because she still has a 2nd level domain slot, and there's no rule anywhere saying that you need anything besides an Xth level slot and a casting stat of 10+X in order to cast an Xth level spell.
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  7. - Top - End - #1477
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    If you take the mage slayer feat and try to cast a burning and with a CL of -3, does it give back 3d4 HPs with fire?
    Last edited by Pilo; 2013-01-15 at 07:48 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #1478
    Banned
     
    willpell's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    Have we thought of a name for the new thread? I suggest "Well that went well".
    How about "That still doesn't seem right somehow..." More of the Dysfunctional Rules Collection?

  9. - Top - End - #1479
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sgt. Cookie's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilo View Post
    If you take the mage slayer feat and try to cast a burning and with a CL of -3, does it give back 3d4 HPs with fire?
    If it did, that would be the cheesiest use for Mage Slayer I have ever seen.
    Open the lid and snatch a homebrewed treat from Cookie's Jar

    Ponytar by Dirtytabs

    Quote Originally Posted by DudeWhyAreAllTheNamesTaken(Imgur)
    Chaotic neutral. Might rob you blind. Might save your life. Might do both.

  10. - Top - End - #1480
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ☢CAUTION☢
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilo View Post
    If you take the mage slayer feat and try to cast a burning and with a CL of -3, does it give back 3d4 HPs with fire?
    I don't think Negative damage (Numerically not Energy Based) becomes Healing or maybe the opposite would be true.

    Does a Cure Light Wounds heal 1d8-3? What happens if you roll a 1 and heal(?) -2 HP.
    Last edited by Chained Birds; 2013-01-15 at 11:10 AM.
    Avatar by Savannah
    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!
    Spoiler: Characters
    Show

  11. - Top - End - #1481
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilo View Post
    If you take the mage slayer feat and try to cast a burning and with a CL of -3, does it give back 3d4 HPs with fire?
    The minimum amount of damage dealt by anything is 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  12. - Top - End - #1482
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London, EU
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Or "WTF!" More of the Dysfunctional Cules Rollection?
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
    Warped Druid Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  13. - Top - End - #1483
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    *snip*
    Caster level rules:

    Horribly worded and Assbackwards phrasing, but on PHB p171, it says specifically that because a wizard has to invest at least 5 CL into 3rd level spells because they get 3rd level spells at 5th level. the rule applies to all classes, so clerics, who get 2nd level spells at third level, have to invest 3CL into magic Missiles, and so does the Divine Crusader, who will only have 2CL at lvl 2, and can only get at maximum CL14, when they are stated to specifically need CL 17 to cast all their spells.
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    Drow avatar @ myself

  14. - Top - End - #1484
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    Caster level rules:

    Horribly worded and Assbackwards phrasing, but on PHB p171, it says specifically that because a wizard has to invest at least 5 CL into 3rd level spells because they get 3rd level spells at 5th level. the rule applies to all classes, so clerics, who get 2nd level spells at third level, have to invest 3CL into magic Missiles, and so does the Divine Crusader, who will only have 2CL at lvl 2, and can only get at maximum CL14, when they are stated to specifically need CL 17 to cast all their spells.
    Specifically, the wording is as follows when describing casting a spell at a lower caster level.

    You can cast a spell at a lower level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level
    Divine Crusader works. Since it has its own spell list and does not improve the spellcasting of another class, it's caster level for casting 9th level spells at 9th level DC is 9.

    Earlier on page 171.

    A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you're using to cast the spell.
    Last edited by Talderas; 2013-01-15 at 02:14 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #1485
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Talderas View Post
    Divine Crusader works. Whatever level the spell is granted at determines the caster level needed to cast the spell. A 10th level PrC that grants 1-9th level spells over the first 9 levels means the caster level for the 9th level spells on its list is 9+the caster level prerequisite for the PrC. In the case of divine crusader, it does not have a caster level prerequisite so the caster level needed to cast 9th level Divine Crusader spells is 9.
    actually, no it doesnt, because

    The Divine Crusader prepares and casts spells as a cleric
    meaning that, although they have an indepentant table, they still need the same CL minimums as a cleric for the spell level. Ur-Priest has their own spell list so they get around that, Divine Crusader and Sublime Chord dont
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    Drow avatar @ myself

  16. - Top - End - #1486
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    You're wrong about sublime chord, too.

    It specifically casts sublime chord spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by CAr pg 61
    To cast a sublime chord spell, a character must have [details cha based casting mechanic]
    It then goes on to say that they choose their sublime chord spells by drawing from the sorc/wiz and bard lists. They're still sublime chord spells.

    In any case, while the intent was clearly that a spellcaster can't cast a spell at a caster level lower than the number of levels in the class granting access to the spell, the absence of an actual minimum caster level rule means that there is no way to call any adjudication of the point unimpeachable RAW. It's a case of RAW doesn't actually exist so we can only use RAI.

    On the bright side, that means its still definitely a mechanic that belongs in this thread.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2013-01-15 at 02:31 PM.
    I am not seaweed. That's a B.

    Praise I've received
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
    A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign

    Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle

  17. - Top - End - #1487
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    In any case, while the intent was clearly that a spellcaster can't cast a spell at a caster level lower than the number of levels in the class granting access to the spell, the absence of an actual minimum caster level rule means that there is no way to call any adjudication of the point unimpeachable RAW. It's a case of RAW doesn't actually exist so we can only use RAI.
    I think it is RAW. The PHB states that the caster level used to cast a spell is equivalent to the class level of the class you're using to cast it. It further goes on to state that you can voluntarily lower the caster level when casting a spell but it may not be lower than what you would have when casting the spell at the earliest.

    RAW does not state that a caster cannot caster a spell at a caster level lower than when he would gain it. It only states that the caster cannot voluntarily lower his caster level below what he needs to cast it. The only common mechanism that outright blocks casting a spell of a given spell level is lowering the character's casting attribute below 10+Spell or granting negative levels.
    Last edited by Talderas; 2013-01-15 at 02:48 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #1488
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London, EU
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Caster Level
    ...
    You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
    ...
    This seems straightforward to me.
    A 7th level Wizard could cast a CL 5 Fireball, but not a CL 4 one.
    Because you need to be a level 5 Wizard to cast Fireball.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
    Warped Druid Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  19. - Top - End - #1489
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You're wrong about sublime chord, too.

    It specifically casts sublime chord spells. It then goes on to say that they choose their sublime chord spells by drawing from the sorc/wiz and bard lists. They're still sublime chord spells.
    No, it doesnt, thats talking about casting a spell slot, not the same issue.

    A Sublime Chord can choose spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer and Bard Spell lists (conflict resolution clause)
    There is no sublime Chord spell list, and since the rule, while RAE and so it is not explicitly written, it still falls under the same problem as Divine Crusader having to meet the same conditions as a cleric in order to cast spells.


    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    This seems straightforward to me.
    A 7th level Wizard could cast a CL 5 Fireball, but not a CL 4 one.
    Because you need to be a level 5 Wizard to cast Fireball.
    The PHB has a paragraph example explaining what that rule in the SRD means, and amazingly, it is an example, and not a waste of time. It does state outright that it means that you cant invest less CL then when your given class would be able to cast the spell normally.

    This enters huge problems when you have instances such as the Divine crusader where it explains that they cast as though they were a cleric.

    Edit: Oh, name for the new thread: "Casters" ~ Additional Dysfunctional rules.
    Last edited by toapat; 2013-01-15 at 03:03 PM.
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    Drow avatar @ myself

  20. - Top - End - #1490
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London, EU
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    The PHB has a paragraph example explaining what that rule in the SRD means, and amazingly, it is an example, and not a waste of time. It does state outright that it means that you cant invest less CL then when your given class would be able to cast the spell normally.
    Read it again — specifically the last bit within the brackets — it's class dependant.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
    Warped Druid Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  21. - Top - End - #1491
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Read it again — specifically the last bit within the brackets — it's class dependant.
    that paragraph is the only example in the books that i can think of that actually explains anything about the game. Being that there are minimum CL requirements to cast a given spell.

    Because of handwaivium, the divine crusader is thus an even worse class then is given on the surface.
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    Drow avatar @ myself

  22. - Top - End - #1492
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London, EU
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    New thread here
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
    Warped Druid Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  23. - Top - End - #1493

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Disfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Using a ranged weapon to make an attack as a standard action provokes an attack of opportunity.
    Using a ranged weapon to make a full attack action does not.
    A full attack is just several regular attacks. Which attacks you do determines if they provoke aoo or not.

  24. - Top - End - #1494
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ross's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2014

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    Problem: Know: Religion governs the info that is used for this.



    A new one: Mind Over Body heals abiliity damage equal to 1 + your con score.


    Take the feat, now it's impossible to recover from con damage naturally.
    uh no it isn't? If I have 5 constitution and use mind over body, it heals 5 + 1 constitution damage. I now have 11 constitution.

  25. - Top - End - #1495
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ponyville
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

    Threadcomancy aside...
    Quote Originally Posted by ross View Post
    uh no it isn't? If I have 5 constitution and use mind over body, it heals 5 + 1 constitution damage. I now have 11 constitution.
    Test of feat in question:
    "Prerequisite: Con 13.
    Benefit: You heal ability damage and ability burn damage more quickly than normal. You heal a number of ability points per day equal to 1 + your Constitution bonus."

    The feat works off of CON _bonus_ not CON score.
    The proposed dysfunction by deuxhero was that you can no longer heal CON damage, as you would be trying to heal 1+"bonus". With CON damage, it is likely your "bonus" is -1 or worse, so you'd heal 1-1 > 0 damage.
    So your correction is incorrect.

    This is not a dysfunction for a few reasons. The main one being "Feats stop working if you fail to meet the prerequisites". As "CON 13" is a prereq, if you have less than that, then the feat stops functioning, and you heal ability damage as normal.
    [retired]

    Horribly out of date guide goes here:
    Oradin Guide

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •