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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Hmmm, I hadn't even considered the possibility of using monsters as archetypes... but that could work out really well, I think. Good show. I love the concept. May I use it to scheme out a few more archetypes of my own?

    As to the specifics: while I think it nails the vampire concept perfectly, there are some abilities I think might be a bit much. Charisma as a bonus to hit points is great, but I think it should be instead of Constitution, rather than in addition to, otherwise we're going to have an extremely hardy mage on our hands (which I realize is appropriate for an undead creature, but doesn't account for their limitations vis-a-vis not having a Constitution score). And I believe Create Spawn should have a smaller ghoul limit - I can see it being abusable on the same scale as Leadership, with the ability to gain 12 intelligent minions with potentially as many class levels as the vampire in question). Also veracity - most vampiric depictions in literature only seemed to have a stable of one or two (Renfield & Lucy spring to mind as the primary example). That's more of a subjective surface argument though, and freely dismissable if you disagree. I would say that a vampire could have, at most, two spawn, and that they cannot control only spawn with hit dice equal to their own hit dice -2 (or lower). Other than those concerns (and Kiss of the Vampire, which is potentially six Enervations in one), I'm sold on the Vampire.
    Well iīm glad you liked it, as for your concerns, i wanted to make a little hardier mage archetype to fit the concept; regarding the spawn they are still zombies limited to one standard action but i see the number may be problematic, i just pretty much copied the original vampire template Create Spawn ability with some minor tweaks, maybe i can limit the number of spawn to just the HD of the character instead of double HD.

    And by all means, feel free to do more archetypes based on this concept, i would love to see them.
    Last edited by Engorde; 2012-04-17 at 12:52 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    According to the wording in the post, "At any given time a vampire may have enslaved Zombies totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any Zombies it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed Zombies".

    That would seem to indicate that at level six, it could control twelve Zombies. This may be a case of semantical confusion, but we'd need the archetype's creator to clear that up.

    If what was intended was it could only control a number of zombies whose total hit dice cannot exceed twice its own, then my issues with it are significantly less, though that still lets it have two equivalent-level cohorts, which I find to be quite strong.
    I edited my post and made some changes you suggested, now it can only control no more than its own HD in spawn, and yes it can control several spawn whose HD total no more than its own HD, so at level 6 it can control 1 6HD zombie, 6 1HD zombies and so on.
    Last edited by Engorde; 2012-04-17 at 12:27 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Also, now that I am more lucid, why is it that Green Mage, Red Mage, and Empath (though less so Red Mage) all have 4 skill points per level when ever other full caster only has 2?

    Red Mage I can understand, since it's trying to be a gish, and gishes are not that effective, but Green Mage is pretty darn strong as it, and Empath isn't that bad either.
    Last edited by wadledo; 2012-04-17 at 08:54 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    Also, now that I am more lucid, why is it that Green Mage, Red Mage, and Empath (though less so Red Mage) all have 4 skill points per level when ever other full caster only has 2?

    Red Mage I can understand, since it's trying to be a gish, and gishes are not that effective, but Green Mage is pretty darn strong as it, and Empath isn't that bad either.
    All of them are non-INT-based, and so would otherwise get shafted in the skills department (I am of the mind that skills really help to round out a character, and so am inclined to give them out a bit more liberally).

    The Red Mage gets a couple of extra skill points to fund those athletic/acrobatic skills.

    The Empath gets a couple of extra skill points to fund those party face skills.

    The Green Mage gets a couple of extra skill points for the exact same reason the druid did. I don't know what that reason is, though. Legacy decision? I have no defense for this one, honestly.

    The White Mage doesn't get a couple of extra skill points, and given how much I deprived it of (proficiency with medium and heavy armor, medium BAB) the more I think about it the more I think it should. It's either that or I go back and give all full casting classes 2 skill points per level, with the rationalization of "they get spells to make up for it".

    Hrm... you have exposed some inconsistencies in my design, and I salute you for that. Will assess and approach the issue.

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Hrm... you have exposed some inconsistencies in my design, and I salute you for that. Will assess and approach the issue.
    I would instead give all casters that are not Int Based 4+Int Skill points, and then gauge how much the Int Casters need from there.
    Though Green Mage is pretty strong, so I would still cut down on their skill list a little.
    If I could find Szatany's Ultimate Classes, I would point you in that direction, but I have no idea where they are.
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  6. - Top - End - #396
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    If I could find Szatany's Ultimate Classes, I would point you in that direction, but I have no idea where they are.
    There used to be a wiki where they were hosted & a small but delightful group of people were working on editing them. Apparently, that has disappeared, but the classes are accessible here.

    Although they look loaded, by and large I do believe that they are substantially weaker than the standard classes. In terms of modularity and towards balancing the classes at a certain level, they are a great inspiration.

  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    I like the idea of bumping up non-Int-based casters to 4 skill points a level.

    Also, going to try to work on a core-only spell list for those of you without access to the various books they're drawn from. Due to the lack of available spells, there will be some overlap between classes (will probably resemble M:tG's allied colors, with the black mage gaining a bit from blue and red, for example), and each archetype will only have access to one 4th-level spell. Based on availability, I may only give each archetype a single bonus spell, but increase the general spell list to compensate.

    Core-Only Spell List

    Black Mage
    0: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Inflict Minor Wounds, Mage Hand, Message, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance, Touch of Fatigue
    1: Bane, Cause Fear, Command, Chill Touch, Detect Alignment, Detect Undead, Disguise Self, Doom, Inflict Light Wounds, Protection From Alignment, Ray of Enfeeblement, Summon Monster I
    2: Acid Arrow, Darkness, Darkvision, False Life, Fox's Cunning, Ghoul Touch, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Spectral Hand, Scare, Summon Monster II, Summon Swarm, Undetectable Alignment
    3: Blindness/Deafness, Contagion, Deeper Darkness, Dispel Magic, Inflict Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Alignment, Ray of Exhaustion, Speak with Dead, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster III, Vampiric Touch

    Demonologist
    1: Burning Hands, Grease
    2: Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray
    3: Fireball, Fly
    4: Summon Monster IV

    Hexer
    1: Horrid Laughter, Sleep
    2: Hold Person, Touch of Idiocy
    3: Bestow Curse, Deep Slumber
    4: Fear

    Necromancer
    1: Death Knell, Hide From Undead
    2: Command Undead, Desecrate
    3: Animate Dead, Halt Undead
    4: Enervation

    Pestilent
    1: Unseen Servant, Magic Fang
    2: Spider Climb, Web
    3: Gaseous Form, Poison
    4: Giant Vermin

    Void Cultist
    1: Entropic Shield, Obscuring Mist
    2: Glossolalia, Touch of Madness
    3: Displacement, Nondetection
    4: Black Tentacles

    Blue Mage
    0: Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Flare, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Ray of Frost
    1: Charm Person, Color Spray, Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Floating Disk, Identify, Protection from Alignment, Sleep, Summon Monster I, Unseen Servant, Ventriloquism
    2: Blur, Cat's Grace, Detect Thoughts, Gust of Wind, Hideous Laughter, Invisibility, Knock, Levitate, Mirror Image, See Invisibility, Summon Monster II, Touch of Idiocy, Undetectable Alignment
    3: Arcane Sight, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Fly, Gaseous Form, Hold Person, Invisibility Sphere, Magic Circle Against Alignment, Nondetection, Suggestion, Summon Monster III, Water Breathing

    Chronomancer
    1: Deja Vu (adapted psionic power), True Strike
    2: Make Whole, Shatter
    3: Slow, Time Hop (adapted psionic power)
    4: Resilient Sphere

    Hyperborean
    1: Chill Touch, Grease
    2 Chill Metal, Fog Cloud
    3: Frostball (as Fireball, but cold damage), Sleet Storm
    4: Wall of Ice

    Mountebank
    1: Command, Hypnotism
    2: Daze Monster, Enthrall
    3: Charm Monster, Glibness
    4: Dominate Person

    Wayfarer
    1: Expeditious Retreat, Longstrider
    2: Dimension Swap (adapted psionic power), Rope Trick
    3: Blink, Haste
    4: Dimension Door

    Weaver
    1: Disguise Self, Silent Image
    2: Hypnotic Pattern, Minor Image
    3: Major Image, Tiny Hut
    4: Shadow Conjuration

    Green Mage
    0: Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Flare, Guidance, Know Direction, Light, Mending, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic, Resistance, Virtue
    1: Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Animals or Plants, Detect Snares and Pits, Endure Elements, Faerie Fire, Goodberry, Hide From Animals, Longstrider, Magic Fang, Obscuring Mist, Pass Without Trace, Summon Nature's Ally I
    2: Animal Messenger, Animal Trance, Barkskin, Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, Hold Animal, Lesser Restoration, Owl's Wisdom, Soften Earth and Stone, Spider Climb, Summon Nature's Ally II, Warp Wood
    3: Call Lightning, Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, Dominate Animal, Neutralize Poison, Remove Disease, Sleet Storm, Snare, Speak with Plants, Spike Growth, Summon Nature's Ally III, Water Breathing, Wind Wall

    Chloromancer
    1: Entangle, Shillelagh
    2: Tree Shape, Wood Shape
    3: Diminish Plants, Plant Growth
    4: Reincarnate

    Elementalist
    1: Feather Fall, Produce Flame
    2: Levitate, Resist Energy
    3: Gaseous Form, Quench
    4: Control Water

    Ophidian
    1: Hypnotism, Ray of Enfeeblement
    2: Acid Arrow, Spider Climb
    3: Hold Person, Poison
    4: Phantasmal Killer

    Subterranean
    1: Magic Stone, Produce Flame
    2: Flaming Sphere, Heat Metal
    3: Meld into Stone, Stone Shape
    4: Spike Stones

    Wildling
    1: Enlarge Person, True Strike
    2: Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength
    3: Greater Magic Fang, Keen Edge
    4: Freedom of Movement

    Red Mage
    0: Acid Splash, Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Flare, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Ray of Frost
    1: Alarm, Endure Elements, Enlarge Person, Entropic Shield, Grease, Magic Missile, Magic Weapon, Mount, Protection from Alignment, Shield, Shocking Grasp, Summon Monster I, True Strike
    2: Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Continual Flame, Fire Trap, Glitterdust, Protection from Arrows, Pyrotechnics, Rage, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Summon Monster II
    3: Dispel Magic, Explosive Runes, Fireball, Haste, Heroism, Keen Edge, Lightning Bolt, Magic Circle Against Alignment, Phantom Steed, Protection from Energy, Slow, Summon Monster III

    Chaos Child (needs a rewrite for core)
    1: Disguise Self, Magic Fang
    2: Alter Self, Spider Climb
    3: Gaseous Form, Greater Magic Fang
    4: Polymorph

    Crimson Disciple
    1: Charm Person, Ventriloquism
    2: Darkvision, Locate Object
    3: Fly, Suggestion
    4: Shout

    Magesmith
    1: Identify, Mage Armor
    2: Align Weapon, Spiritual Weapon
    3: Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon
    4: Stoneskin

    Pyromancer
    1: Burning Hands, Produce Flame
    2: Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere
    3: Flame Arrow, Fire Shield
    4: Flame Strike

    Sand Shaper
    1: Obscuring Mist, Ray of Enfeeblement
    2: Gust of Wind, Heat Metal
    3: Sleet Storm, Ray of Exhaustion
    4: Wall of Fire

    White Mage
    0: Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Guidance, Know Direction, Light, Mending, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic, Resistance, Virtue
    1: Bless, Bless Water, Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Alignment, Divine Favor, Endure Elements, Protection from Alignment, Remove Fear, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Summon Monster I
    2: Aid, Align Weapon, Consecrate, Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Eagle's Splendor, Find Traps, Protection from Arrows, Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration, Spiritual Weapon, Summon Monster II
    3: Mass Aid, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Glyph of Warding, Magic Circle Against Alignment, Magic Vestment, Prayer, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Searing Light, Summon Monster III

    Champion
    1: Bless Weapon, True Strike
    2: Bull's Strength, Shield Other
    3: Heroism, Keen Edge
    4: Divine Power

    Exorcist
    1: Command, Detect Undead
    2: Hold Person, Zone of Truth
    3: Detect Thoughts, Invisibility Purge
    4: Dismissal

    Healer (change lesser ability to: "Anytime a healer casts a healing spell on an ally, that ally gains fast healing 1 for a number of rounds equal to the healer's caster level")
    1: Goodberry, Deathwatch (non-evil)
    2: Make Whole, Status
    3: Create Food and Water, Protection from Energy
    4: Restoration

    Mystic (basically non-functional in core, pending a rewrite)

    Oracle
    1: Detect Secret Doors, Identify
    2: Augury, Locate Object
    3: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Divination
    4: Scrying

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    I like the idea of bumping up non-Int-based casters to 4 skill points a level.
    Over the next day or so, I will go over the classes and see where they lie for skill-points and what not.
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    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    The Green Mage gets a couple of extra skill points for the exact same reason the druid did. I don't know what that reason is, though. Legacy decision? I have no defense for this one, honestly.
    I suspect that the original reason was so that a druid could still be competent at Knowledge: Nature and Survival after taking the spellcaster tax of Concentration (and arguably Spellcraft).
    Last edited by Benly; 2012-04-17 at 10:28 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    The core-only spell list is complete, barring the couple archetypes I need to overhaul for core compliance.

    Didn't turn out as badly as I'd thought, though a few of the spell selections are a bit of a stretch - just keep an open mind about the fluff, and it should make at least some kind of sense.

    Still on the docket: Sage overhaul, White Mage overhaul, some cleaning up of archetypes across the board for core content. Obviously, some options (like the shadowcaster or any of the initiator archetypes) will be invalidated outside of core; c'est la vie.

  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Going by Section, Class: Number of Skills, number of skill points, if Intelligence is Primary (full caster [or caster like] that uses Intelligence as casting stat), Secondary (half caster with Intelligence as casting stat or uses Intelligence for class features), or Tertiary (uses Intelligence primarily for skill points).

    I will look at the number of 'required' skills (the skills absolutely needed for the particular job being done) later.
    All this assumes that the character is 10 Int and non-human.
    If they have Know (All), treat that as 5 skills.

    Combat Classes
    Brawler: 13, 4, Secondary
    Gladiator: 15, 4, Tertiary
    Hunter: 19, 6, Tertiary
    Sentinel: 12, 4, Tertiary
    Zealot: 16, 4, Tertiary

    Skilled Classes
    Engineer: 18, 6, Primary
    Noble: 25, 6, Tertiary
    Poet: 28, 6, Tertiary
    Sage: 25, 6, Secondary
    Scoundrel: 30, 8, Tertiary

    Magical Classes
    Black Mage: 8, 2, Primary
    Blue Mage: 18, 2, Primary
    Green Mage: 14, 4, Tertiary
    Red Mage: 12, 4, Tertiary
    White Mage: 9, 4, Tertiary

    Psionic Classes
    Aspirant: 15, 4, Tertiary
    Empath: 16, 4, Tertiary
    Esoteric: 12, 2, Tertiary
    Kinetic: 13, 2, Primary
    Subliminal: 33, 6, Secondary
    Last edited by wadledo; 2012-04-19 at 12:53 PM.
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    Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
    There's a concept called mercy. Are you familiar with it?
    Thank ya Dr.Bath for your avataring skills.

  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Next elementalist. The third one, if memory serves me right. It took me a while to find the pictures I was looking for, but in the end I'm pretty satisfied with how it turned out.

    Anyway, with earth I went for a more direct approach to combat: punching instead of blasting, but punching REALLY hard. I also based each archetype on a different aspect of earth, something that I would have done with the water elementalist if only water had something to offer aside from ice and steam (and maybe blood, but avoiding Avatar references was already hard enough).

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    The Earth Elementalist


    HD: d6
    Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Profession, Survival
    Skill Points: 4 + Int per level (4x at 1st)

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

    1st|+0|+2|+0|+2| Archetype, Riddle of Stone, Howling Rumba

    2nd|+1|+2|+0|+3|Lesser Archetype Power

    3rd|+1|+3|+1|+3| Carverís Might

    4th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Moderate Archetype Power

    5th|+2|+4|+1|+4|Crushing Rage

    6th|+3|+5|+2|+5|Greater Archetype Power, Earthcastles[/table]

    Proficiencies: An Earth Elementalist is proficient with light armor and simple weapons.

    Archetype: At 1st level, the Earth Elementalist chooses an archetype from the list below. He gains the advantages and abilities of the archetype at the appropriate levels, as indicated in the list. Once made, this choice is final.

    Riddle of Stone: At 1st level, the Earth Elementalist can summon a stone carved weapon. He may choose to give it a different shape every time he uses this ability, but some of its characteristics remain unchanged. The Riddle of Stone is always considered to be a martial, weightless melee weapon with a 5 feet reach. It deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage per level and has threat range of 19-20/x2. If conjured as a two-handed weapon, it deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. If conjured as a gauntlet, it may be considered a primary natural weapon. The Earth Elementalist can summon it at will as a swift action and dismiss it as a free action. He can only have one summoned weapon at the same time and heís always considered to be proficient with it. As soon as he drops it, the Riddle of Stone disappears.

    Howling Rumba: At 1st level, as a standard action, the Earth Elementalist can tear apart the ground and hit everything around him with a shower of debris. All creatures or unattended objects within 15 feet of the elementalist take 1d6 points of physical damage per two elementalist levels (minimum of 1d6). The elementalist may decide whether this physical damage is piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning, but may only use one type at a time. Creatures affected by Howling Rumba must also make a Reflex save (DC 10 + half the Earth Elementalistís level + his Strength modifier) or be knocked prone. This ability can only be used as long as there is a solid surface within 15 feet of the elementalist. The Earth Elementalist may choose to omit a number of targets in the area of effect equal to his class level.

    Lesser Archetype Power: At 2nd level, the Earth Elementalist gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

    Carverís Might: At 3rd level, the Earth Elementalist gains Tremorsense 60 and an untyped +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground. He may also use the following spell-like abilities: Stone Shape a number of times per encounter equal to his Strength bonus, Soften Earth and Stone three times per day and Meld into Stone or Soul of the Waste one time a day.

    Moderate Archetype Power: At 4th level, the Earth Elementalist gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

    Crushing Rage: At 5th level, the Earth Elementalist may consider any weapon summoned with his Riddle of Stone ability to be made of Adamantine for the purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction and Hardness. He can also use Riddle of Stone to summon two weapons at the same time, but each weapon conjured this way deals 2d6 points of damage less.

    Greater Archetype Power: At 6th level, the Earth Elementalist gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

    Earthcastles: At 6th level, three times a day, the Earth Elementalist can use Wall of Stone as a spell-like ability. Unlike the actual spell, Earthcastles can only create walls made of packed earth: they have 5 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 2, the DC for breaking through them with a single attack is 10 + 2 per inch of thickness and thereís no need to conjure them upon existing material. They most certainly cannot be used to bridge a chasm.


    Archetypes:

    Crystal Dancer

    Lesser Archetype Power: Any weapon summoned with the Crystal Dancerís Riddle of Stone ability has reach and can be used to make trip attacks. Unlike most other weapons with reach, it can still be used against adjacent foes. The Crystal Dancer also gains Improved Trip as a bonus feat.
    Moderate Archetype Power: When trying to trip opponents who have more than two legs or are otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid, the Crystal Dancer gains a +4 bonus on his Strength checks. For the purpose of making trip attacks, the Crystal Dancer is also considered to be one size category larger.
    Greater Archetype Power: The Crystal Dancer gains a bonus equal to his Dexterity modifier on all Strength checks made during a tripping attempt and to all attacks made against prone opponents.

    Metal Testudo

    Lesser Archetype Power: The Metal Testudo can add his Constitution modifier instead of his Dexterity modifier to both his Armor Class and his Reflex Saves. When using his Riddle of Stone ability, the Metal Testudo may now conjure steel objects.
    Moderate Archetype Power: As a move action, the Metal Testudo may use his Riddle of Stone ability to create an armor. He can change its shape every time he conjures it, but some of its characteristics remain unchanged: no weight, no maximum dexterity bonus, no armor check or speed penalty, a 35% arcane spell failure chance and an armor bonus equal to the Metal Testudoís level plus his Constitution modifier.
    Greater Archetype Power: The armor conjured with his Riddle of Stone ability grants the Metal Testudo a shield bonus equal to his Constitution modifier. All the armor and shield bonuses granted by the Metal Testudoís archetype powers are also added to his touch AC.

    Stone Whisperer

    Lesser Archetype Power: The Stone Whisperer can turn any Small statue he crafted with Craft (sculpting) into an Animated Object. The construct thus created will always understand the Stone Whispererís words and obey his every order. It takes 24 hours to bring one to life and a standard action to turn it back to a lifeless piece of stone. The Stone Whisperer cannot animate a new statue until the existing one has been destroyed or dismissed. He may repair his creation with a Craft (sculpting) check, spending one hour per roll and healing a number of hit points equal to the result minus ten.
    Moderate Archetype Power: The Stone Whisperer can now use his Lesser Archetype Power to turn any of his Medium statues into an Animated Object. His constructs gain a bonus to attack and initiative equal to the his Intelligence modifier, plus one choice from the astral constructís Menu A or one fighter bonus feat. The Stone Whisperer can make a different choice every time he brings a new statue to life.
    Greater Archetype Power: The Stone Whisperer can now use his Lesser Archetype Power to turn any of his Large statues into an Animated Object. His construct gain a bonus to armor class and damage equal to his Intelligence modifier, his Craft (sculpting) modifier as extra hit points and one choice from the astral constructís Menu B, two choices from Menu A, two fighter bonus feats or one choice from Menu A and one fighter bonus feat. The Stone Whisperer can make a different choices every time he brings a new statue to life.

    Sand Weaver

    Lesser Archetype Power: The Sand Weaver gains a burrow speed equal to half his base land speed and the ability to move through desert environments without hindrance, as per the Waste Strider spell. He may also use the following spell-like abilities: Local Tremor a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom bonus, Earthen Grasp three times per day and Black Sand one time a day. The actual level (and consequent DC) of these spell-like abilities is equal to half the Sand Weaverís level.
    Moderate Archetype Power: The Sand Weaver may use the following spell-like abilities: Storm Mote a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier, Stony Grasp three times per day and Haboob one time a day. The actual level (and consequent DC) of these spell-like abilities is equal to half the Sand Weaverís level.
    Greater Archetype Power: The Sand Weaver may use the following spell-like abilities: Spike Stones and Fuse Sand a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier, Wall of Sand (Sandstorm) three times per day and Rain of Spines one time a day. The actual level (and consequent DC) of these spell-like abilities is equal to half the Sand Weaverís level.

    Mud Reanimator

    Lesser Archetype Power: A number of times per day equal to 1 + his Charisma modifier, the Mud Reanimator may use Summon Undead I (PGtF errata) as a spell-like ability. Every time he uses one of his spell-like abilities to summon an undead, he can freely extend it.
    Moderate Archetype Power: Each undead summoned by the Mud Reanimator gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution. A number of times per day equal to 1 + his Charisma modifier, the Mud Reanimator may also use Summon Undead II as a spell-like ability. Every time he uses one of his spell-like abilities to summon an undead, he can cast it without provoking attacks of opportunity instead of extending it.
    Greater Archetype Power: A number of times per day equal to 1 + his Charisma modifier, the Mud Reanimator can use Summon Undead III as a spell-like ability. Every time he uses one of his spell-like abilities to summon an undead, he can maximize it instead of extending it. Also, once per day he can, instead of extending it, change its duration to 24 hours.
    Last edited by Dandria; 2012-04-20 at 06:52 AM.
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    @Dandria: Three things:
    1. You might consider doing a little checking, since there are a few cases where you have different names for the same things.
    2. What is the class supposed to do? It's got a close range attack, but 1/2 BAB and d6 hit dice. Also, no reach means that it would need to be in the enemies square to hit, if I recall correctly.
    3. This feels like it would work better as a variant of the Aspirant with Animus like abilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    @Dandria: Three things:
    1. You might consider doing a little checking, since there are a few cases where you have different names for the same things.
    2. What is the class supposed to do? It's got a close range attack, but 1/2 BAB and d6 hit dice. Also, no reach means that it would need to be in the enemies square to hit, if I recall correctly.
    3. This feels like it would work better as a variant of the Aspirant with Animus like abilities.
    1 - Ah, I tried to avoid that but apparently I left something in: can you tell what you found? It'd be helpful, thanks. EDIT: No, wait, I think I got it.
    2 - The idea is to be really good at punching but not quite as good as hitting (even if an E6 game tone down the gap between full BAB and half BAB) or taking blows. Each archetype offer its personal solution to the problem, forcing at the same the elementalist to get creative. Crystal Dancer has reach and tripping, Metal Testudo has defense and hit points, Stone Whisperer has someone to hold the line and flank for him, Sand Weaver has BC and the ability to jump out of the ground while Mud Reanimator has summonings. Of course I'd appreciate any feedback on its actual functionality. Also, thanks: it should be "5 feet reach".
    3 - Sorry, but I don't have any material about D&D psionics. Sadly, I can't work in that field.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    Going by Section, Class: Number of Skills, number of skill points, if Intelligence is Primary (full caster [or caster like] that uses Intelligence as casting stat), Secondary (half caster with Intelligence as casting stat or uses Intelligence for class features), or Tertiary (uses Intelligence primarily for skill points).

    I will look at the number of 'required' skills (the skills absolutely needed for the particular job being done) later.
    All this assumes that the character is 10 Int and non-human.
    If they have Know (All), treat that as 5 skills.

    Combat Classes
    Brawler: 13, 4, Secondary
    Gladiator: 15, 4, Tertiary
    Hunter: 19, 6, Tertiary
    Sentinel: 12, 4, Tertiary
    Zealot: 16, 4, Tertiary

    Skilled Classes
    Engineer: 18, 6, Primary
    Noble: 25, 6, Tertiary
    Poet: 28, 6, Tertiary
    Sage: 25, 6, Secondary
    Scoundrel: 30, 8, Tertiary

    Magical Classes
    Black Mage: 8, 2, Primary
    Blue Mage: 18, 2, Primary
    Green Mage: 14, 4, Tertiary
    Red Mage: 12, 4, Tertiary
    White Mage: 9, 4, Tertiary

    Psionic Classes
    Aspirant: 15, 4, Tertiary
    Empath: 16, 4, Tertiary
    Esoteric: 12, 2, Tertiary
    Kinetic: 13, 2, Primary
    Subliminal: 33, 6, Secondary
    Making some adjustments to skills based on your data, and a few other things that have been bugging me lately:

    Combat and Skilled classes are mostly unchanged: they are right where I want them to be skills-wise. I removed Knowledge (arcana) and Use Magic Device from the Engineer for consistency's sake - given that I put a clause in that they may never be a spellcaster, it seems incongruous. I may remove a few inappropriate skills from the Zealot and Noble lists as well. I added medium armor proficiency to the hunter.

    Black Mage gains Bluff, Decipher Script, and Knowledge (dungeoneering).
    Blue Mage loses Balance, Hide, Move Silently, and Tumble, but gains Decipher Script, Forgery, and Knowledge (local).
    Green Mage loses Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (the planes).
    Red Mage is unchanged.
    White Mage gains Decipher Script, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), and Sense Motive. I recently bumped it up to 4 skill points a level, too, as it is halfway between a cleric and a cloistered cleric. I am considering giving the White Mage the ability to select domains and a medium BAB to go along with its medium armor.

    The Aspirant is unchanged.
    The Empath loses Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (nature), and Knowledge (nobility and royalty).
    The Esoteric gains Heal. How the hell did I miss that one?
    The Kinetic loses Knowledge (arcana).
    Subliminal loses a few skills (Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Survival, and Swim) due to the fact that it traded 2 skill points per level and one die of sneak attack for psionic powers, a trade that heavily favored it over the scoundrel. It's no longer quite as effective of a face, though it probably remains a better utility rogue than the scoundrel. The combat edge still likely goes to the scoundrel, through judicious application of powers may alter that.

    Next elementalist.
    Looks mostly good, with some caveats:

    Stone Weapon: may be too good (7d6 damage for a 6th-level elementalist wielding a two handed weapon might be a bit too much, though I realize that they will have trouble connecting)
    Howling Rumba: you don't say what kind of action it requires and also d3s make me want to cry (I know you can just halve a d6, but still, it's kind of weird from a design point of view).
    Carver's Might: why is Stone Shape per encounter but the others are not?

    Metal Testudo: will end up getting his Constitution added to his armor class three times. Could end up being a bit nuts. A decently-optimized Metal Testudo with a +5 modifier to Constitution would end up with a base AC of 31, not including any other equipment or abilities - even a Vrock can only hit him on a 16 or higher. Throw a Bear's Endurance on him and he's practically untouchable.

    Stone Whisperer: where in the class abilities is the "statue" thing mentioned? I like this one the best, personally, but I'm confused as to how it works.

    Sand Weaver: mostly okay, but the sand dragon is too suicidal for my tastes.

    Mud Reanimator: Part of the moderate archetype ability is useless because SLAs default to standard actions.

    3 - Sorry, but I don't have any material about D&D psionics. Sadly, I can't work in that field.
    The rules of psionics are freely available in the System Reference Document. Not having the book is no excuse!

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Excellent, feedback! Let's see, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Stone Weapon: may be too good (7d6 damage for a 6th-level elementalist wielding a two handed weapon might be a bit too much, though I realize that they will have trouble connecting)
    True: it fits with the concept of raw, uncontrolled power that I tried to convey, but it could be too much. I need to think about this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Howling Rumba: you don't say what kind of action it requires and also d3s make me want to cry (I know you can just halve a d6, but still, it's kind of weird from a design point of view).
    Yeah, its cringeworthy: I wanted to say it deals 1d6 per two level of the elementalist, but I couldn't find a way to make it sound right. Non native speaker and all that. If you can reword it I'll be glad to give up the d3. Also, standard action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Carver's Might: why is Stone Shape per encounter but the others are not?
    Because moving stone around should be for the earth elementalist what breathing underwater is for the water elementalist (that is to say, somethig natural), and the encounter powers actually work pretty well for this. Softening earth and stone means changing their nature and melding into them is a pretty big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Metal Testudo: will end up getting his Constitution added to his armor class three times. Could end up being a bit nuts. A decently-optimized Metal Testudo with a +5 modifier to Constitution would end up with a base AC of 31, not including any other equipment or abilities - even a Vrock can only hit him on a 16 or higher. Throw a Bear's Endurance on him and he's practically untouchable.
    And that would also be the only defense of someone whose role is to stand in close combat with a d6 hit die and half BAB: he's going to hold the line against direct attacks, but when faced with an opponent smart enough to not go toe-to-toe aginst a guy named "testudo" he'd better fall back. Anyway, I'll admit he's the one I like the least: I shall think about it. Maybe I could give him the power to make flying weapons and attack from the distance. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Stone Whisperer: where in the class abilities is the "statue" thing mentioned? I like this one the best, personally, but I'm confused as to how it works.
    Nowhere: he can only Animate a normale statue that he Crafted himself with mundane means. I'll make it clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Sand Weaver: mostly okay, but the sand dragon is too suicidal for my tastes.
    I'll be honest with you: I put in the sand dragon only because there was one in the picture. Yes, I know, I'm a childish little man I promise I'll do my best to muster the strength to remove it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Mud Reanimator: Part of the moderate archetype ability is useless because SLAs default to standard actions.
    Good point, I should make clear that his summonings take a full round action, or just change that power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    The rules of psionics are freely available in the System Reference Document. Not having the book is no excuse!
    Oh, interesting: I always kind of assumed there were no psionics in the SRD, but now that you pointed it out I found them. Really, really interesting.

    Well, now I have something to think about: I'll fix the small issues right now and leave the big ones for later, when I'll be able to see them more objectively. After doing Air I'll probably go back and check all the elementalists, just to be sure. Until then, thanks for the useful tips.
    Last edited by Dandria; 2012-04-20 at 06:10 AM.
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    This is how I would word the Howling Rumba ability:

    At 1st level, as a standard action, the Earth Elementalist can tear apart the ground and hit everything around him with a shower of debris. All creatures or unattended objects within 15 feet of the elementalist take 1d6 points of physical damage per two elementalist levels (minimum of 1d6). The elementalist may decide whether this physical damage is piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning, but may only use one type at a time. Creatures affected by Howling Rumba must also make a Reflex save (DC 10 + half the Earth Elementalistís level + his Strength modifier) or be knocked prone. This ability can only be used as long as there is a solid surface within 15 feet of the elementalist. The Earth Elementalist may choose to omit a number of targets in the area of effect equal to his class level.

    And I have no problem with the sand dragon per se; just don't think it should have a chance to turn on the summoner. As a short-term, once per day summon, I think it's just about right.

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    At 1st level, as a standard action, the Earth Elementalist can tear apart the ground and hit everything around him with a shower of debris. All creatures or unattended objects within 15 feet of the elementalist take 1d6 points of physical damage per two elementalist levels (minimum of 1d6). The elementalist may decide whether this physical damage is piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning, but may only use one type at a time. Creatures affected by Howling Rumba must also make a Reflex save (DC 10 + half the Earth Elementalistís level + his Strength modifier) or be knocked prone. This ability can only be used as long as there is a solid surface within 15 feet of the elementalist. The Earth Elementalist may choose to omit a number of targets in the area of effect equal to his class level.
    Perfect, this is going straight in the description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    And I have no problem with the sand dragon per se; just don't think it should have a chance to turn on the summoner. As a short-term, once per day summon, I think it's just about right.
    I don't know, it seems pretty strong even as a short-term deal: a CR 5 means different things for a dragon than it does for any other monster. Let me first run some math on what it could do in those 6 rounds.
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Dandria View Post
    I don't know, it seems pretty strong even as a short-term deal: a CR 5 means different things for a dragon than it does for any other monster. Let me first run some math on what it could do in those 6 rounds.
    It has a piddling little breath weapon and though it gets five attacks, most of them will be lucky to do even five damage. By the time you get the ability, the kind of threats you'll be facing won't have too much of an issue with its damage, but it can be a mobile distraction.

    Sand dragons aren't particularly stellar.

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    This is solid, impressive work, and it's convinced a player who's in love with high-power, high-level games to run a variant he had dismissed. Once I start my West Marches E6 game come June, expect a ton of feedback from me.

    Regarding the Sage, my problem with the Polyglot archetype (aside from the PW issue) is that it conceptually overlaps with the Didact. The easiest route would be to change it to a Runecaster, or something similar. Adapting the PrC of the same name should be doable, and the Deathwarden Chanter also has some material you can borrow from. Alternatively, if you take the symbol spells, make them single-target and fade after they're triggered, and drop them all by about four spell levels, you get effects that are fairly in-line with spellcasting options of the same level (given the extensive cast time). Add in explosive runes, glyph of warding, and the like, and set a cap on the number of effects he can have active, and you have something workable.

    As for the Tactician, logically, he'd be the guy to know the enemies you're facing, their abilities, and their weaknesses, right? So why not scrap him and replace him with an Archivist archetype? TBH, I'm kinda surprised I didn't see Dark Knowledge somewhere under the Sage.
    Last edited by Agent_0042; 2012-05-11 at 06:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    I find it somewhat galling that the subliminal, which I (perhaps incorrectly?) parse as the ASSASSIN-like psionicist, can't produce weapons with her brain.

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    This is solid, impressive work, and it's convinced a player who's in love with high-power, high-level games to run a variant he had dismissed. Once I start my West Marches E6 game come June, expect a ton of feedback from me.

    Sweet, looking forward to it. I'll have plenty of time in July to evaluate and revise, and then likely no time after that for three years or so.

    Regarding the Sage, my problem with the Polyglot archetype (aside from the PW issue) is that it conceptually overlaps with the Didact. The easiest route would be to change it to a Runecaster, or something similar. Adapting the PrC of the same name should be doable, and the Deathwarden Chanter also has some material you can borrow from. Alternatively, if you take the symbol spells, make them single-target and fade after they're triggered, and drop them all by about four spell levels, you get effects that are fairly in-line with spellcasting options of the same level (given the extensive cast time). Add in explosive runes, glyph of warding, and the like, and set a cap on the number of effects he can have active, and you have something workable.

    That's not a bad idea - I'll add it to my pile of proposed Sage changes.

    As for the Tactician, logically, he'd be the guy to know the enemies you're facing, their abilities, and their weaknesses, right? So why not scrap him and replace him with an Archivist archetype? TBH, I'm kinda surprised I didn't see Dark Knowledge somewhere under the Sage.

    I was consciously trying not to rip Dark Knowledge off, that's why. The sage is basically "archivist without casting" in terms of fluff, you're right.
    Quote Originally Posted by vasharanpaladin View Post
    I find it somewhat galling that the subliminal, which I (perhaps incorrectly?) parse as the ASSASSIN-like psionicist, can't produce weapons with her brain.
    Because: why not cut out the middle man and kill them with your brain directly?

    And that's not strictly true - the trueshot can make mind arrows.

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Speaking of Polyglot (I made a funny!), what are the various Power Word Spells out there?
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by wadledo View Post
    Speaking of Polyglot (I made a funny!), what are the various Power Word Spells out there?
    Blind (PHB, level 8)
    Deafen (Races of the Dragon, level 3)
    Disable (RotD, level 5)
    Distract (RotD, level 4)
    Fatigue (RotD, level 1)
    Kill (PHB, level 9)
    Maladroit (RotD, level 3)
    Nauseate (RotD, level 6)
    Pain (RotD, level 1)
    Petrify (RotD, level 8)
    Sicken (RotD, level 2)
    Stun (PHB, level 7)
    Weaken (RotD, level 3)

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Huh, only one 2nd level spell.

    And 2 more questions:

    1. How much money should each class get at 1st level?

    2. Anyone want to play in a game?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonprime View Post
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    With all the 5E talk of themes, your classes are looking rather prescient! I wonder if it would be possible to decouple archetypes from classes, so that any character could choose any archetype. (I know that at the moment archetypes are of different power to reflect the different power of their base classes, but that might be fixable).

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanglorian View Post
    With all the 5E talk of themes, your classes are looking rather prescient! I wonder if it would be possible to decouple archetypes from classes, so that any character could choose any archetype. (I know that at the moment archetypes are of different power to reflect the different power of their base classes, but that might be fixable).
    I doubt it would be easy - many archetypes have abilities that specifically improve or key off base class abilities. It would likely require an overhaul of the entire system. I would hope that the power level of all archetypes remain fairly balanced in comparison to one another, but hey, I'm not a miracle worker.

    It might be easier with generic classes. You'd have to come up with broad archetypes, like "Adherent of Nature," which would get you a barbarian if applied to the warrior, a ranger if applied to the expert, and a druid if applied to the spellcaster (but honestly, at that point, you're already designing three different classes entirely, so you're back to square one). I'm not saying it's not possible, just extremely cumbersome for my work as it stands currently.

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    How would a Factotum 6 stand up, power-wise, to your classes? What changes would you need?
    LGBTA+itP

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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    I was consciously trying not to rip Dark Knowledge off, that's why. The sage is basically "archivist without casting" in terms of fluff, you're right.
    I mean, you've provided a way to emulate pretty much every other class feature, and Dark Knowledge is a solid set of abilities, so I don't see why it shouldn't make an appearance. Just saying.
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    Default Re: Gnorman's E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    How would a Factotum 6 stand up, power-wise, to your classes? What changes would you need?
    I think it'd stack up fairly nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_0042 View Post
    I mean, you've provided a way to emulate pretty much every other class feature, and Dark Knowledge is a solid set of abilities, so I don't see why it shouldn't make an appearance. Just saying.
    ...

    ...

    dammit, you're absolutely right.

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