Ambush Warrior & Mighty Warsinger [3.5, Feats]

[Ziegander]

So I noticed that there wasn't a feat combining Rogue and Fighter levels anywhere... that seemed odd to me, so I made it myself.

Ambush Warrior
Prerequisites: Sneak Attack +2d6, Base Attack +3
Benefit: Your Fighter and Rogue levels stack to determine your Effective Rogue Level and Effective Fighter Level for the purposes of your sneak attack bonus damage, your ability to flank targets with the Improved Uncanny Dodge feature, and for the purposes of qualifying for Fighter-Only feats. For example, a Rogue 4/Fighter 2 would deal +3d6 damage on a sneak attack and could take the Weapon Specialization feat.

Mighty Warsinger
Prerequisites: Rage 1/day, Inspire Courage +1
Benefit: Your Barbarian and Bard levels stack to determine your Effective Barbarian Level and Effective Bard Level for the purposes of improving your Rage and your Inspire Courage, but not for the daily uses of either. For example, a Barbarian 6/Bard 8 may Rage 2/day as Greater Rage and use Bardic Music 8/day to with Inspire Courage +3. Furthermore, while you Rage you automatically Inspire Courage without needing to activate Bardic Music (meaning you can use a different Bardic Music effect in tandem with the Inspire Courage effect if you wish) and you may cast Bard spells as long as they do not require Concentration. If you are interrupted while Raging and casting a Bard spell you automatically fail to cast but you do not lose the spell slot.

[channingman]

Kinda think these should be prestige classes, not feats. They're too powerful for feats.

[Ziegander]

Kinda think these should be prestige classes, not feats. They're too powerful for feats.

These are trying to venture along the same lines as feats like Daring Outlaw and Swift Hunter. Paradoxically, making them into prestige classes (without great changes to the concept) makes the mechanics more powerful not less.

For example:

The Ambush Warrior

Spoiler

Show

REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become an Ambush Warrior, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks
Special: Sneak Attack +2d6

GAME RULE INFORMATION

HD: 1d8

{table=head]Level|Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+2

|

+0

|Bonus Feat

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+3

|

+0

|Sneak Attack +1d6

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|Bonus Feat

4th|

+4

|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|Sneak Attack +2d6

5th|

+5

|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|Bonus Feat

6th|

+6

|

+5

|

+5

|

+2

|Sneak Attack +3d6

7th|

+7

|

+5

|

+5

|

+2

|Bonus Feat

8th|

+8

|

+6

|

+6

|

+2

|Sneak Attack +4d6

9th|

+9

|

+6

|

+6

|

+3

|Bonus Feat

10th|

+10

|

+7

|

+7

|

+3

|Sneak Attack +5d6

11th|

+11

|

+7

|

+7

|

+3

|Bonus Feat

12th|

+12

|

+8

|

+8

|

+4

|Sneak Attack +6d6

13th|

+13

|

+8

|

+8

|

+8

|Bonus Feat

14th|

+14

|

+9

|

+9

|

+4

|Sneak Attack +7d6

15th|

+15

|

+9

|

+9

|

+5

|Bonus Feat[/table]

The Ambush Warrior as presented allows a Rogue 5 to enter and gestalt his last 15 levels with the Fighter for free. At least as a feat, Ambush Warrior costs the character something.

[channingman]

Sure - you can make an overpowered prestige class. But that doesn't mean that the feat - and all those feats, btw, aren't just a little too much.

[Seerow]

Sure - you can make an overpowered prestige class. But that doesn't mean that the feat - and all those feats, btw, aren't just a little too much.

You have an extremely low standard for overpowered.

It's not like he's giving caster levels away. Hell, he doesn't even give the extra fighter bonus feats from levels in Rogue. It's pretty much on the same level as the other hybrid class feats that help make multiclassing nicer for some weaker thematically similar classes.

[Cieyrin]

We have a problem with Ambush Warrior like with a feat that does the same thing that was brought up earlier this week or last week, namely that Sneak Attack Fighter breaks it wide open. Rogue 3/Sneak Attack Fighter 17 has 19d6 Sneak Attack. Just an fyi.

As for Mighty Warsinger, Combined Songs as early as 3rd level? Damn, that's nice. It's also nice they have some faux-Combat Casting in there without worrying about the check, even if it's a tad weird. All in all, that's just kinda nice.

[Ziegander]

We have a problem with Ambush Warrior like with a feat that does the same thing that was brought up earlier this week or last week, namely that Sneak Attack Fighter breaks it wide open. Rogue 3/Sneak Attack Fighter 17 has 19d6 Sneak Attack. Just an fyi.

Sneak Attack Fighter is a variant that doesn't have to be allowed. To me that's a lot like saying a class is broken because of gestalt, but your mileage may vary.

As for Mighty Warsinger, Combined Songs as early as 3rd level? Damn, that's nice. It's also nice they have some faux-Combat Casting in there without worrying about the check, even if it's a tad weird. All in all, that's just kinda nice.

I'm a little worried about this one, because it does stuff I've never seen done, but I think it's probably balanced, what do you think?

[Cieyrin]

Sneak Attack Fighter is a variant that doesn't have to be allowed. To me that's a lot like saying a class is broken because of gestalt, but your mileage may vary.

Hence why it was an 'fyi,' so that if you do bring it to a game, you're aware of that particular outlet. And, as variants go, I find them pretty common after Cloistered Clerics.

I'm a little worried about this one, because it does stuff I've never seen done, but I think it's probably balanced, what do you think?

Well, I can say you can't really do much with Combined Songs till later, as most other battle songs so early tend to replace IC. I suppose if you use some of the Bardic feats to get new songs then it might start getting troublesome. On the other hand, they're spending feats on it, so probably not that big a deal. Nice to have Inspire Greatness along for the ride when you get to ECL 9, though.

[Seerow]

We have a problem with Ambush Warrior like with a feat that does the same thing that was brought up earlier this week or last week, namely that Sneak Attack Fighter breaks it wide open. Rogue 3/Sneak Attack Fighter 17 has 19d6 Sneak Attack. Just an fyi.

Doesn't the sneak attack fighter variant give up ALL of his feats for that sneak attack progression?

You may end up with +19 BAB and 19d6 sneak attack, but you have your base 7 feats, **** all for skills (3 levels of rogue doesn't fix fighter skills), and your only other class feature is Evasion

You have a ton of sneak attack, but not much else. Hardly what I'd call an overpowered character.

[Cieyrin]

Doesn't the sneak attack fighter variant give up ALL of his feats for that sneak attack progression?

You may end up with +19 BAB and 19d6 sneak attack, but you have your base 7 feats, **** all for skills (3 levels of rogue doesn't fix fighter skills), and your only other class feature is Evasion

You have a ton of sneak attack, but not much else. Hardly what I'd call an overpowered character.

Not saying it's overpowered. Plus, most people include the Thug variant so you have some actual skills. You by no means have to go all the way, either, since you can get more sneak attack than anybody else pre-epic, so get as much as you want and then go to something that gives you flavor and abilities you want, coming back to Sneak Thug to advance Sneak another 2d6 every 2 levels when you feel like it.

[Seerow]

Not saying it's overpowered. Plus, most people include the Thug variant so you have some actual skills. You by no means have to go all the way, either, since you can get more sneak attack than anybody else pre-epic, so get as much as you want and then go to something that gives you flavor and abilities you want, coming back to Sneak Thug to advance Sneak another 2d6 every 2 levels when you feel like it.

It's also not more than anyone else can get pre-epic. A factotum can get silly amounts of sneak attack dice if it wants. And even discounting that, caster level shenanigans with the one ranger spell can get more. Or really, you can just dip into a bunch of +sneak attack classes, and end up with the same or more (though this will probably end you with less BAB you'll probably get more incidental class features).