# Thread: Chart of Monster Saves?

1. ## Chart of Monster Saves?

I was wondering if someone could help Me find an old thread that I can't seem to google anymore. It listed what the average value for each type of save, for monsters, by CR. It was quite helpful and relatively complete, I just hoping to find it again..

If you can't find it, a second questions around level 12-14, what should you be expecting monsters to have as a Fort save on average.

2. ## Re: Chart of Monster Saves?

Let's look at a few monster:

Trumpet Archon: CR 14, Fort +14 (+18 against poison).

Abyssal Greater Basilisk: CR 12, Fort +18

Roper:CR 12, Fort +10

Elder Elementals: CR 11, Fort 12-19

Kraken: CR 12, Fort +21

I'd say average is 15-18.

Bonus points: Published monsters between CR 12-14.

Edit: I think the big influence is number of hit die; the Roper has just 10 HD and has the worst Fort. The Kraken has the best Fort and I believe 20 HD.

3. ## Re: Chart of Monster Saves?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...26&postcount=5

IIRC it's roughly 2 + CR for fort/will, and 0 + CR for ref, with some variation. The above link has a more specific answer, i.e. 15-16 average fort for CR 12-14.

4. ## Re: Chart of Monster Saves?

I've downloaded the pathfinder beastiary and did some correlation and found the following equations
fort = 1*CR + 2
ref = .6*CR + 2
Will = 1*CR + 0

Reflex had the greatest variance with fort having the lowest.

That is only from memory so you may need to do the calculations yourself. I recommend deleting the 1/2 CR creatures as you're not likely to encounter them and they will throw off your calculations.
To find the equation you select the CR range of values, including the "CR" entry on top, then, holding ctrl, you select the same rows in the Fort column. Then you insert a scatter plot chart. Right click the data points and "add trendline" and then make sure to check the box "show equation." You can also show the R^2 value, which represents how tight the distribution is to the fitted line. The closer to 1 the tighter the distribution.

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