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    Default Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Theurgic Warlock
    d8 HD
    Poor BAB
    Good Will Save
    Proficient with simple weapons, light armor, and shields (except tower shields)

    Mystic Bolt (Su)

    A ~ may fire a bolt of raw magical energy known as a standard action. The bolt strikes a single target at long range (400 feet + 40 feet/level of archmage) and deals 1d4 points of damage per ~ level (half damage to objects but ignores hardness). A target struck by the bolt may make a reflex save to take half damage but not less (i.e. evasion, improved evasion, etc... are completely ineffective against this damage). The saving throw is equal to 10 + 1/2 ~ level + Cha modifier. A protection from chaos/evil/good/law spell changes the saving throw to Reflex save negates.

    Seeking Strike (Su)

    At 3rd level, if a ~ somehow specifically designates (a move action) a single target within range of his mystic bolt ability he gains exceptional ability against that target in that the bolts used against that target are manifested directly upon the target provided it is in range (if they are not in range this ability simply fizzles and does nothing else) despite any impediments other than a protection from chaos/evil/good/law spell on the subject (such as the ~ or the target or both being in an antimagic field). The target is still allowed a saving throw but all saving throws it makes that turn are made at a penalty equal to the charisma modifier of the ~. This ability is treated as an extraordinary ability for all beneficial purposes.

    ===

    So, does this look balanced?

    EDIT: Not sure about skills but alignment will be dependent on diety chosen or set of beliefs.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2011-09-27 at 04:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Make there be a single common spell that can block it, and it should be balanced (probably tier 4) by comparison to Magic Missile. Otherwise, I'd call it a tier 3 (also balanced, and probably preferable) in a game where defensive builds are unheard of, but otherwise a potential tier 2 (not balanced).

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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    This is an NPC class, right? It kind of lacks, well, anything really.

    The damage of Mystic Bolt is negligible. 1d4 damage/level, especially with a save for half, is laughable. By level 5 you're doing the same damage on average (12.5 before including the saving throw) that melee characters deal at level 1 (13 between a greatsword and 18 Strength).

    Seeking Strike's poor wording makes this a passable 3 level dip for debuffers. Giving an opponent a penalty on all saves equal to your Charisma modifier can be worth it when teamed up with a wizard or other spellcaster, although most saving throw debuffers find a way to do so in addition to other actions, not in place of them.

    On a side note, the action requirements of Mystic Bolt (standard action) and Seeking Strike (standard action) make them unusable on the same turn. Since Seeking Strike only lasts for the current turn, you can't even use the two of them together as intended.
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Where's the theurge in this? In D&D parlance, theurge is usually shorthand for "character who progresses two magical skillsets at once", but this is less warlocky than a regular warlock and doesn't have spells, mysteries, incarnum, or whatnot.

    Also, I suggest you don't bother with creating a (Su) ability and then writing a complicated set of rules for using it as an (Ex) ability. Just designate it as (Ex) in the first place. Less paperwork.
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    No, Theurge refers to a divine caster, IIRC. Hence, "mystic theurge" progresses in both divine and arcane casting.

    "Theurge" may be used as slang for anything that works like a mystic theurge, but that's not the same thing as D&D parlance.

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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Grammatical hair-splitting aside, there's no dual progression here.
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    Grammatical hair-splitting aside, there's no dual progression here.
    Actually I went for the definitional approach to it so yes it's divine flavor (basically the warlock gets their power from that source instead of a pact).

    I have also changed the seeking strike to move action.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2011-09-27 at 12:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Make there be a single common spell that can block it, and it should be balanced (probably tier 4) by comparison to Magic Missile. Otherwise, I'd call it a tier 3 (also balanced, and probably preferable) in a game where defensive builds are unheard of, but otherwise a potential tier 2 (not balanced).
    Added 50% negate with prot spell. It is now set up so that a protection spell grants reflex save to negate the effect.

    Protection from chaos/evil/good/law is a first level spell. It's likely to be incredibly common.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2011-09-27 at 04:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Protection from chaos/evil/good/law is a first level spell on two major spell lists, with numerous important protection abilities. It's likely to be incredibly incredibly common.
    Fixed it for you.

    Yeah, so now I'd call it a solid tier 4 class. If you want it to be suited for higher-level play without being broken, it'll need more versatility.

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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    Where's the theurge in this? In D&D parlance, theurge is usually shorthand for "character who progresses two magical skillsets at once", but this is less warlocky than a regular warlock and doesn't have spells, mysteries, incarnum, or whatnot.

    Also, I suggest you don't bother with creating a (Su) ability and then writing a complicated set of rules for using it as an (Ex) ability. Just designate it as (Ex) in the first place. Less paperwork.
    It just feels like an Su ability so I'd rather phrase it that way. Also the button on the dialogue box in your avatar slot is broken. I tried to click it but it's greyed out so I can't.

    @Yitzi: Well, the Druid doesn't get it but I figure it's cheap enough so that any class can buy an item of it and because it offers other protections it wouldn't be a bad item to have anyways.

    As for why it's not versatile: In the campaign my DM runs, I get the feeling that other players and perhaps the DM himself doesn't believe in one class doing everything. I've always liked playing a glass cannon but I felt a little supportive ability would be nice too.
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    @Yitzi: Well, the Druid doesn't get it but I figure it's cheap enough so that any class can buy an item of it and because it offers other protections it wouldn't be a bad item to have anyways.
    As I said, likely to be incredibly incredibly common.

    As for why it's not versatile: In the campaign my DM runs, I get the feeling that other players and perhaps the DM himself doesn't believe in one class doing everything.
    Of course, there's a difference between "not doing everything" and "only doing one thing".

    This is a perfectly good class for a game where the typical character is a minorly optimized* non-full-caster. Just be aware that it can't hold up in a game where each person is expected to be highly effective in each and every encounter or where there is serious optimization going on.

    *i.e. intelligent feat selections, maybe even some synergy work, but nothing like the ubercharger or optimized wizard builds.

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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    When I think of Warlocks, I think of dark summoners, romping around with a greater Baalor as a man-servant, sipping pinacoladas whilst his imps massacre innocent villagers, etc :)

    When I read this, I think 'Sorcerer's Apprentice'. Or kid brother who stole his older brother's prized Schwinn bike while he's away at college, taking it on a Stand By Me -like journey, only to have it ruined by some crash along a railway, or fall into a gully.

    This class has no spark or color :( I'm sorry to say, and is less effective than the Commoner Classes. Also, nothing about it says 'Warlock.'

    But I want to be helpful, and would like to point out that simple doesn't at all mean simplistic. Looking at the Pathfinder Witch, she has a very focused set of abilities, where she basically Hexes and Cackles 99% of the time, and then occasionally tosses out a spell. Her mechanics are very simple, but flavorful, and she's extremely effective with only a few mechanics under her belt (T1 class).
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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    ...What?

    It doesn't do anything. It has a long-ranged laser weapon with negligible damage, and... nothing else. No class features. This class does absolutely nothing. It's like a Warlock with nothing but Eldritch Blast- no invocations, no class features, no nothing.

    Or, wait, is this thing supposed to be an ACF for the Warlock? If so, then it's... okay, I guess. The blast does more damage and is longer range, but allows a save instead of just needing a touch attack. A toss-up, really- the difference is negligible.

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    Default Re: Theurgic Warlock - A really simple class [3.5]

    Is...is this a class, or a pair of warlock feats?

    Because really, this doesn't LOOK like a class.

    It certainly doesn't look like a theurge, which is a dual progression class, and which already exists officially as Eldritch Theurge.

    If you want it to be an actual class, you need to decide things about it. Is it a prestige class? If so, what are it's prereqs? Base class? Starting gold, bonus languages, things of that nature. Probably an actual table of class abilities instead of two notes. I don't mean to be negative, but this is not a finished thing.

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