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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    an interesting talent, which allows you to draw a concealed weapon during a surprise round, attack someone with it, and instead of rolling your sneak attack, it deals max damage.

    Problems: You can only make a standard action during a surprise round, not leaving enough time to both draw and stab with a hidden weapon. (even with Quick Draw drawing a hidden weapon is a move action)

    Solution: Bandit archetype (Rogue)

    level 4 Ambush (replaces uncanny dodge): during surprise round, make a swift, move, and standard action.

    Assume I am using Underhanded and Quick Draw with the Bandit ability, Ambush.

    Questions:
    1.) the talent makes no mention of whether the target of the underhanded attack can see you, or whether the attack must be melee... can I draw a hidden weapon while hidden and attack with it from range? (hand crossbow for example)

    2.) can i draw a hidden weapon while moving? like while moving down a hill, drawing a dagger, and stabbing the target with it? (in pathfinder, you can draw a weapon as a free action while moving if you have BAB +1... what if its hidden? a swift action??)

    3.) Can I hide a weapon in a glove of storing? glove of store makes the item super small, and therefore easy to hide... but its also a free action to retrieve. can I do that, move, then stab the target?

    Alright, thanks everyone!
    Last edited by Duncan_Ruadrik; 2011-09-29 at 06:30 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Zagaroth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Um, you didn't read the rules or the feat right

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat...combat---final
    \"It Takes a Long time to count to 2 in binary.\"~fourlegged

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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagaroth View Post
    Um, you didn't read the rules or the feat right

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat...combat---final
    I am failing to see what I didnt read correctly... it appears I read Quick Draw right. Please clarify.

    As for rules... be more specific for the ones I failed to read correctly as well.

    A link explains nothing.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Zagaroth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    You stated that "even with Quick Draw drawing a hidden weapon is a move action"

    Incorrect. With out QD it is a move action.

    with quick draw, it is a free action.

    and concealed does not necessarily mean sheathed. If it's a dagger, you could be hiding it along the inside of your arm and have it in hand already. Loose clothing is good.
    \"It Takes a Long time to count to 2 in binary.\"~fourlegged

    "There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung View Post
    I guess you could adapt Time Lords into D and D. Rainbow Servant of Dr. Who.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagaroth View Post
    You stated that "even with Quick Draw drawing a hidden weapon is a move action"

    Incorrect. With out QD it is a move action.

    with quick draw, it is a free action.

    and concealed does not necessarily mean sheathed. If it's a dagger, you could be hiding it along the inside of your arm and have it in hand already. Loose clothing is good.
    Did you read your own link? It states that with Quick Draw drawing a hidden weapon is a move, drawing one normally is a Standard.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    BIGMamaSloth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagaroth View Post
    You stated that "even with Quick Draw drawing a hidden weapon is a move action"

    Incorrect. With out QD it is a move action.

    with quick draw, it is a free action.

    and concealed does not necessarily mean sheathed. If it's a dagger, you could be hiding it along the inside of your arm and have it in hand already. Loose clothing is good.
    it's a free action if not Hidden. When it's hidden it's a standard regularly and a move without.
    Last edited by BIGMamaSloth; 2011-09-30 at 10:33 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Zagaroth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Bah, I did not read that caveat. Nevermind. I just read the first sentence and moved on. OK, my bad, and my misunderstanding. Humm.

    Then yeah, I'd have to go with the only way underhanded can work is if you are concealing a small weapon in your hand. Unless you have some sort of spring-loaded sheath in your sleeve or something. That's what I get for trying to respond quickly. Sorry.
    \"It Takes a Long time to count to 2 in binary.\"~fourlegged

    "There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung View Post
    I guess you could adapt Time Lords into D and D. Rainbow Servant of Dr. Who.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    The great thing is, there are indeed cheaply available spring-loaded sheaths, which allow you to draw a hidden weapon as a swift action without even having Quick Draw.
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Quote Originally Posted by Curious View Post
    The great thing is, there are indeed cheaply available spring-loaded sheaths, which allow you to draw a hidden weapon as a swift action without even having Quick Draw.
    Here it is.
    Last edited by BlueInc; 2011-09-30 at 11:08 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    The rules are unclear on if you get a swift action on a surprise round. My reading says you do not.

    The Surprise Round

    If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
    Swift Actions

    A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zagaroth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Actually, I would read that as you DO get a swift action. "without affecting your ability to perform other actions"
    \"It Takes a Long time to count to 2 in binary.\"~fourlegged

    "There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung View Post
    I guess you could adapt Time Lords into D and D. Rainbow Servant of Dr. Who.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    KoboldCleric's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    You can also take free actions during the surprise round.
    You can take a swift action anytime would normally be allowed to take a free action.
    Seems pretty clear to me ... Not familiar enough with Pathfinder to give you definitive answers to the op though. Gut says Yes, No, Yes.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    Lol, yes no yes...

    In any case, my questions are more specific, because I know I can draw, and attack with this ability, but...

    1.) the talent makes no mention of whether the target of the underhanded attack can see you, or whether the attack must be melee... can I draw a hidden weapon while hidden and attack with it from range? (hand crossbow for example)

    2.) can i draw a hidden weapon while moving? like while moving down a hill, drawing a dagger, and stabbing the target with it? (in pathfinder, you can draw a weapon as a free action while moving if you have BAB +1... what if its hidden? a swift action??
    ) ( this is rendered moot by the spring loaded wrist sheath, I suppose.)

    3.) Can I hide a weapon in a glove of storing? glove of store makes the item super small, and therefore easy to hide... but its also a free action to retrieve. can I do that, move, then stab the target?

    Alright, thanks everyone!
    Last edited by Duncan_Ruadrik; 2011-10-01 at 06:34 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Rogue Talent: Underhanded

    RAW, I don't know, but if I were your DM, I would allow it.
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