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    Default The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

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    Tarrasque
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    Colossal Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 30d10+450 (619 hp)
    Initiative: +9
    Speed: 120 ft. (24 squares); climb 60 ft.
    Armor Class: 37 (-8 size, +5 Dex, +30 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 32
    Base Attack/Grapple: +30/+71
    Attack: Bite +47 melee (4d8+25/18-20/×3)
    Full Attack: Bite +47 melee (4d8+25/18-20/×3) and 2 horns +42 melee (1d10+12) and 2 claws +42 melee (1d12+12) and tail slap +42 melee (3d8+12)
    Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft.
    Special Attacks: Augmented critical, awesome cleave, frightful presence, improved grab, pounce, rampage, swallow whole
    Special Qualities: Carapace, earthbinding aura, damage reduction 20/epic, fast healing 60, immortality, immunities and resistances, scent, spell resistance 32, unhewn dragon
    Saves: Fort +32, Ref +22, Will +30
    Abilities: Str 61, Dex 20, Con 41, Int 3, Wis 20, Cha 16
    Skills: Balance +33, Climb +37, Listen +18, Spot +18
    Feats: Awesome Blow, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Shards of Granite*, Steadfast Determination, Stone Power*
    *Bonus feat
    Environment: Any
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 20
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always neutral
    Advancement: 31+ HD (Colossal)
    Level Adjustment:

    The tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, and it weighs about 130 tons.

    The tarrasque cannot speak.

    Combat

    The tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

    Augmented Critical (Ex): The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.

    Frightful Presence (Ex): The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 40 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. If they fail the save by 10 or more, they are frightened instead. If they fails the save by 20 or more, they are panicked instead. The save DC is Constitution-based.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

    Rampage (Ex): Once per minute, the tarrasque may move up to five times it's speed as a full-round action. It may make a full-attack against everything it passes during this movement that is within it's reach.

    Pounce (Ex): If the tarrasque charges a foe, it can make a full attack.

    Awesome Cleave (Ex): When it reduces an enemy to 0 HP, the tarrasque may immediately make a full attack against an enemy within range. There is no limit on the number of attacks it can make in a round this way.

    Swallow Whole (Ex): The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+12 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 25). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures.

    Carapace (Ex): The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.

    Immunities and Resistances: The tarrasque is immune to fire, poison, disease, fear, mind-affecting abilities, energy drain, ability damage, and ability drain. It has resistance 20 to acid, cold, electricity, and sonic.

    The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

    The tarrasque does not need to eat, breathe, or sleep.

    If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

    Earthbinding Aura (Su): To fight the tarrasque, one must do so on it's terms. All means of flight and teleportation do not function within 10 miles of the tarrasque. You may teleport into the aura, but you may not teleport out.

    Immortality: The tarrasque is, simply, immortal.

    If reduced to -10 HP or otherwise slain, the tarrasque slumps over. It appears to be dead, and a DC 40 Heal check is required to tell that it is still alive. Even if an attack would take the tarrasque below -10 HP, treat the tarrasque's HP as if it were at -10. In 5 minutes it immediately regains 310 HP, bringing it to 300 HP, and resumes it's assault.

    What can kill the tarrasque is ultimately up to the DM. The simplest option is that it requires you to cast a wish or miracle spell after reducing the tarrasque to -10 HP, but that is by no means the only one.

    Unhewn Dragon: Although the tarrasque does not bear the necessary discipline or focus to formally learn the Sublime Way, it's instinctive fighting style bears enormous resemblance to that of a martial adept using Stone Dragon. The exact nature of the relationship between the creators of the discipline and the tarrasque is unknown.

    The tarrasque knows every maneuver and stance of the Stone Dragon discipline and has an initiator level equal to it's HD. The tarrasque begins every encounter with every maneuver it knows readied. It can recover maneuvers as a Warblade.

    In addition, it's unconscious mastery grants it the following abilities:

    During a full attack, in lieu of it's normal routine, a tarrasque may use three Stone Dragon strikes, split up among any number of targets within it's reach.

    Any Stone Dragon maneuver or stance that grants damage reduction instead grants an equal amount of DR/epic, which stacks with the tarrasque's previous DR.

    Any Stone Dragon stance that requires the Tarrasque to not move more than 5 feet in a round instead requires it to not move more than 120 feet in a round.

    Earthstrike Quake's area is a (HD x 20) ft. burst. Any creature knocked prone also takes (1/2 HD)d4 sonic damage, and all unattended objects within the area automatically take the damage.

    Giant's Stance allows the tarrasque to deal damage as a Colossal+ creature.

    Multiply the amount of any forced movement caused by a Stone Dragon strike by 10.

    Any attack that deals damage to HP uses the listed dice or 4d8, whichever is higher.

    The tarrasque's natural attacks are associated weapons for Stone Dragon.

    Tarrasque's Maneuvers - and Modifications
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    Adamantine Bones - DR 20/epic
    Ancient Mountain Hammer
    Bonesplitting Strike
    Bonecrusher - +4d8 damage, DC 38
    Boulder Roll
    Charging Minotaur - 4d8+Str damage, x10 movement on bull rush
    Colossus Strike - DC 42, 1d4 x10 squares
    Crushing Vice - +4d8 damage
    Crushing Weight of the Mountain - 4d8+37 damage on constrict
    Earthstrike Quake - DC 43, 15d4 sonic to everyone that falls prone and all objects, 600 ft. burst
    Elder Mountain Hammer
    Giant's Stance - No size cap, may move up to 120 ft.
    Iron Bones - DR 10/epic
    Irresistible Mountain Strike - +4d8 damage, DC 41
    Mountain Avalanche - 4d8+37 damage, DC 40
    Mountain Hammer - +4d8 damage
    Mountain Tombstone Strike
    Roots of the Mountain - DR 2/epic, may move up to 120 ft.
    Stone Bones - DR 5/epic
    Stone Dragon's Fury - +4d8 damage
    Stone Vise - +4d8 damage, DC 37
    Stonefoot Stance - May move up to 120 ft.
    Strength of Stone - May move up to 120 ft.


    Skills: The Tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Spot, Listen, Balance, and Climb checks.


    ---

    Feat (x2)

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    Watcher of the Unhewn Dragon

    You have seen the Tarrasque and have learned to emulate it's movements. In doing so, you have gained a greater understanding of the Stone Dragon discipline.
    Prerequsites: Must have seen the tarrasque awake, two Stone Dragon maneuvers, IL 6
    Benefits: Any Stone Dragon stance that requires you to not move more than 5 feet in a round instead requires you to not move more than half your base land speed in a round.

    Giant's Stance, if you possess the stance, has a size cap of Huge.

    You may multiply the amount of any forced movement caused by a Stone Dragon strike by 2.

    Special: If you slay the Tarrasque at any point after taking this feat, you may automatically replace this feat with Slayer of the Unhewn Dragon.

    Slayer of the Unhewn Dragon

    You have fought the Tarrasque and have learned to emulate it's movements. In doing so, you have gained a greater understanding of the Stone Dragon discipline.
    Prerequsites: Must have fought and helped kill the tarrasque, two Stone Dragon maneuvers, IL 18
    Benefits: Any Stone Dragon maneuver or stance that grants damage reduction instead grants an equal amount of DR/epic.

    Any Stone Dragon stance that requires you to not move more than 5 feet in a round instead requires you to not move more than your base land speed in a round.

    Earthstrike Quake's area, if you possess the maneuver, is a burst equal to your HD times 10 in feet. Every creature that falls prone takes (1/4 character level)d4 sonic damage. All unattended objects in the area take this damage as well.

    Giant's Stance, if you possess the stance, has no size cap.

    You may multiply the amount of any forced movement caused by a Stone Dragon strike by 5.


    ---

    Optional Artifact and Mini-Tarrasque for Lower-Level Campaigns

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    Worldsaver's Dagger
    This curious object is a two-foot long brown spike with razor-sharp edges that seems almost organic in appearance, looking like some sort of chitin. It appears alive, occasionally twitching.

    It may be wielded as a +1 returning adamantine dagger. The creature holding the Worldsaver's Dagger and all allies within 30 ft. are treated as if they were constantly under the effects of a freedom of movement spell.

    It's most curious and useful property, however, only reveals itself when it is near the Tarrasque. When within the area of the Tarrasque's Earthbinding Aura, the dagger violently twitches and shakes, tugging at the wielder's hand in the direction of the Tarrasque. The next time the wielder throws it, in combat or out of combat while within the Earthbinding Aura, it automatically flies towards the Tarrasque. It cracks it's carapace and sinks deep within, somehow draining it's power.

    Weakened Tarrasque
    Colossal Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 15d10+75 (162 HP)
    Initiative: +6
    Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares); climb 30 ft.
    Armor Class: 24 (-8 size, +2 Dex, +20 natural), touch 4, flat-footed 22
    Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+33
    Attack: Bite +17 melee (2d8+10/19-20/×3)
    Full Attack: Bite +17 melee (2d8+10/19-20/×3) and 2 claws +12 melee (1d8+5) and tail slap +12 melee (1d10+5)
    Space/Reach: 30 ft./10 ft.
    Special Attacks: Augmented critical, frightful presence, pounce
    Special Qualities: Cracked carapace, damage reduction 10/magic, fast healing 15, immunities and resistances, lesser earthbinding aura, lesser unhewn dragon, scent, spell resistance 17, weakened build
    Saves: Fort +14, Ref +9, Will +10
    Abilities: Str 31, Dex 14, Con 21, Int 3, Wis 14, Cha 12
    Skills: Balance +14, Climb +10, Listen +7, Spot +7
    Feats: Awesome Blow, Combat Reflexes, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Steadfast Determination
    Environment: Any
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 10
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always neutral
    Advancement:
    Level Adjustment:

    Weakened Build: In all situations where it's size would be beneficial to it, the Tarrasque's size is treated as Huge.

    Augmented Critical (Ex): The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 19-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.

    Frightful Presence (Ex): The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 22 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. If they fail the save by 10 or more, they are frightened instead. The save DC is Constitution-based.

    Pounce (Ex): If the tarrasque charges a foe, it can make a full attack.

    Cracked Carapace (Ex): The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective. However, it is cracked and has lost much of the strength it once had. It has a 50% chance of deflecting a ray, line, cone, or magic missile spell. Deflected spells are harmlessly negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.

    Lesser Earthbinding Aura (Ex): All means of flight within 60 ft. of the tarrasque do not function.

    Immunities and Resistances: The tarrasque is immune to poison, disease, fear, ability damage, and ability drain. It has resistance 15 to fire, and resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, and sonic.

    The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

    The tarrasque does not need to eat, breathe, or sleep.

    If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

    Lesser Unhewn Dragon: The tarrasque is sluggish, and may no longer bring to bear it's full might.

    The tarrasque knows every maneuver and stance of 5th level and lower from the Stone Dragon discipline. It has an Initiator Level of 10. The tarrasque begins every encounter with 5 maneuvers readied. The tarrasque recovers maneuvers as a Warblade. When it recovers maneuvers, it may swap out up to two of the maneuvers it has readied.

    In addition, it gains a small number of benefits from it's inherent proficiency with Stone Dragon:

    It may use two Stone Dragon strikes instead of taking a full-attack.

    Any Stone Dragon stance that requires it to not move more than 5 feet in a round instead requires it to not move more than 30 ft. in a round.

    Giant's Stance increases the Tarrasque's damage die by one step, as if there were no size cap.

    You may multiply the amount of any forced movement caused by a Stone Dragon strike by 2.

    The Tarrasque's Maneuvers - Stuff
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    Bonesplitting Strike
    Bonecrusher - DC 23
    Boulder Roll
    Charging Minotaur - 2d6+10 damage, x2 movement
    Crushing Weight of the Mountain - 2d6+15 damage
    Elder Mountain Hammer
    Giant's Stance - 30 ft. movement restriction
    Mountain Avalanche - 2d6+15 damage, DC 25
    Mountain Hammer
    Overwhelming Mountain Strike - DC 24
    Roots of the Mountain
    Stone Bones
    Stone Dragon's Fury
    Stone Vise - DC 22
    Stonefoot Stance - 30 ft. movement cap


    Skills: The Tarrasque has a +4 racial bonus on Spot, Listen, and Balance, and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks.


    ---

    A Personal Defense Accessory for Gentlefolk of Leisure

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    The Pocket Tarrasque
    Diminutive Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 1d10+5 (15 HP)
    Initiative: +4
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares); climb 10 ft.
    Armor Class: 22 (+4 size, +4 Dex, +4 natural), touch 18, flat-footed 18
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-7
    Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d6+4/×3)
    Full Attack: Bite +9 melee (1d6+4/×3) and 2 claws +4 melee (1d4+2) and tail slap +4 melee (1d6+2)
    Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
    Special Attacks:
    Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/magic, fast healing 2, immunities and resistances, scent, spell resistance 13
    Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +2
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 3, Wis 14, Cha 18
    Skills: Balance +5, Climb +9, Hide +12, Listen +5, Spot +5
    Feats: Diehard*, Martial Stance (Stonefoot Stance)*, Martial Study (Mountain Hammer)*, Toughness
    *Bonus feat
    Environment: Any
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 2
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Always neutral
    Advancement:
    Level Adjustment:

    Immunities and Resistances: The tarrasque is immune to poison, disease, and fear. It has resistance 5 to fire.

    The tarrasque does not need to eat or breathe.

    Skills: The Pocket Tarrasque has a +8 racial modifier to Climb and a +4 racial modifier to Balance, Listen, and Spot.

    ===

    Manufacture and Cost: A Pocket Tarrasque is made by cutting off a small piece of the Tarrasque's flesh and subjecting it to large amounts of carefully controlled positive energy. A Healing spell of 4th level or above is required to make one and the creator must make a DC 25 Spellcraft check to properly apply the energy. This process requires an hour to complete. If the check succeeds, the flesh molds itself into a Pocket Tarrasque, which look almost exactly like the original but for being the size of a hamster. If the Spellcraft check does not succeed, the flesh is rendered inert and you must acquire another chunk of flesh.

    Once created, Pocket Tarrasques are relatively friendly, in a distinct counterpoint to the original. It requires a DC 20 Handle Animal check and three weeks to train one.

    Pocket Tarrasques bond fairly quickly to those who take care of them, and are incredibly vicious in the defense of their master.

    Depending on the exact nature of the world in question and the ease of availability of Tarrasque flesh, Pocket Tarrasques might cost anywhere from 100 gp to several hundred thousand gp.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-13 at 09:59 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Thumbs up Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    First of all, let me say, I strongly approve of the idea of a tarrasque fix.

    That said, in the interest of making the tarrasque fix work, let me offer you some PEACH.

    1) You are using an odd formula for calculating the DC of Frightful Presence. (20+1/2 level +Cha, rather than 10+1/2 level +Cha). There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but as it goes against the normal formulas in the MM, I think that it would be appropriate to state it in the text. ("The save DC is x-based" generally suggests that the formula is 10+1/2 HD+x)

    2) You gave the tarrasque pounce. I think I might cry of happiness and fear.

    3) Rampage is crazy. That is like ubercharger on steroids. I approve.

    4) Earthbinding Aura- Perfect. This is exactly what we need to make the tarrasque a deadly boss. However, this can be negated by an antimagic field...though perhaps that is one weakness you would want to leave in...

    5) Wow, Unhewn Dragon. That's pretty great. Unfortunately, the tarrasque has less than optimal Wisdom, but I don't know how many Stone Dragon maneuvers allow a saving throw, so that might not be an issue. One little problem, however: You specifically state that the tarrasque's initiator level is 30, yet you give the tarrasque the option to advance. In this situation, I think the best course of action would be to make the tarrasque's initiator level equal to its HD, so that you don't have a 60 HD tarrasque with a puny initiator level.

    6) Feats- Can't we be more cinematic here? I mean, it's the tarrasque! I say you should write up a special ability that lets the tarrasque pounce when it uses its Great Cleave feat. This is a devastating monster of destruction, it thrives from the moment of the kill!

    7) On the subject of no cinematics, one major problem the tarrasque suffers is his lack of special attack options. Sure, the tarrasque can now pounce, and has a whole host of natural attacks which he can use, but this is an almost-epic creature we're talking about! Sure, he has 3 Int, so an SLA would probably not be a good way to solve this, but maybe some kind of powerful finishing move, something flashy like a breath weapon or a gaze attack or a mighty roar! You know? Something that doesn't actually kill the party as hard as his normal attack routine, but can shake things up and does an AOE damage/debuff.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-08 at 01:38 AM.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    1) You are using an odd formula for calculating the DC of Frightful Presence. (20+1/2 level +Cha, rather than 10+1/2 level +Cha). There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but as it goes against the normal formulas in the MM, I think that it would be appropriate to state it in the text. ("The save DC is x-based" generally suggests that the formula is 10+1/2 HD+x)
    Whoops. I just added the boosted Cha to it and called it a day. I'll recalculate. That kind of makes the DC suck, though. Hm. Base it off of Strength, maybe?

    2) You gave the tarrasque pounce. I think I might cry of happiness and fear.
    Seemed like the obvious solution.

    3) Rampage is crazy. That is like ubercharger on steroids. I approve.
    I was looking at Rush, was thinking "How can I make this not suck?", and then realized that, as always, the solution was a crapton of murder.

    4) Earthbinding Aura- Perfect. This is exactly what we need to make the tarrasque a deadly boss. However, this can be negated by an antimagic field...though perhaps that is one weakness you would want to leave in...
    I did think about making it immune to stuff like that, but then I decided that if you can manage to keep an antimagic field covering the tarrasque long enough for flying to be useful, you deserve it.

    Unfortunately, the tarrasque has less than optimal Wisdom, but I don't know how many Stone Dragon maneuvers allow a saving throw, so that might not be an issue.
    Several - but all use Strength for the DC.

    One little problem, however: You specifically state that the tarrasque's initiator level is 30, yet you give the tarrasque the option to advance. In this situation, I think the best course of action would be to make the tarrasque's initiator level equal to its HD, so that you don't have a 60 HD tarrasque with a puny initiator level.
    Whoops. That was supposed to be IL equals HD.

    6) Feats- Can't we be more cinematic here? I mean, it's the tarrasque! I say you should write up a special ability that lets the tarrasque pounce when it uses its Great Cleave feat. This is a devastating monster of destruction, it thrives from the moment of the kill!
    I did honestly kind of skip over the feats. Hm. Pounce as Great Cleave though...

    I like it.

    7) On the subject of no cinematics, one major problem the tarrasque suffers is his lack of special attack options. Sure, the tarrasque can now pounce, and has a whole host of natural attacks which he can use, but this is an almost-epic creature we're talking about! Sure, he has 3 Int, so an SLA would probably not be a good way to solve this, but maybe some kind of powerful finishing move, something flashy like a breath weapon or a gaze attack or a mighty roar! You know? Something that doesn't actually kill the party as hard as his normal attack routine, but can shake things up and does an AOE damage/debuff.
    That's what rampage is intended to be, but I see your point. Hm. A roar or other AoE effect might not be a bad idea.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-08 at 07:35 AM.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Personally, I like to pretend the tarrasque doesn't exist and use the garngrath (MM5) instead. It just looks so much sexier.

    I like pounce and the improved will save. Now, a heightened slow no longer screws it over, and a wizard will find it much harder to dominate.

    As for unhewn dragon, are there any maneuvers which are better than simply having it full-attack every round?

    Frightful presence...well...what party doesn't eat heroes' feast at lv11+?

    Also, its attacks don't seem to factor in the -8 attack penalty for being colossal. Plus, its saves seem way off. Being a magical beast, its base saves should be +15/+15/+10, giving you +30/+20/+25 total.

    Otherwise, yeah, good job. Seems much more terrifying now.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    I'm loving Unhewn Dragon.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Personally, I like to pretend the tarrasque doesn't exist and use the garngrath (MM5) instead. It just looks so much sexier.
    I like the garngranth, but one of the most iconic monsters in D&D needs more love.

    As for unhewn dragon, are there any maneuvers which are better than simply having it full-attack every round?
    Probably not, but it's a coolness thing, not necessarily an optimization thing. I am trying to find an area where the maneuvers are not useless the the tarrasque, though.

    I'm still thinking about whether I want to boost it some. I thought about making it 4 maneuvers a round on a full-attack and having the tarrasque automatically refresh maneuvers every round, but I thought that was a bit much.

    Also, its attacks don't seem to factor in the -8 attack penalty for being colossal.
    Changed!

    Plus, its saves seem way off. Being a magical beast, its base saves should be +15/+15/+10, giving you +30/+20/+25 total.
    Aren't good saves 2+1/2 HD, and bad saves 1/3 HD? That's what Tribble says, anyway.'

    EDIT: Also added in a feat, so a martial adept who fights the Tarrasque can get something cool.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-08 at 08:21 AM.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Why would you "fix" the tarrasque by giving it more of the same? No, what you have done is making a creature that is allready way, way to strong for it's CR in a normal fight even stronger.

    Unless you want an even meaner Tarrasque for epic games (don't forget to increase the CR acordingly), you need to undo most of the changes you have made.

    What is okay:
    The Speed. - You went way over the top but bringing the Tarrasque en par in speed with a mounted character sounds reasonable. But then again, there is the Rush ability already...

    What is good intent:
    The earthbinding ability. - Yes, it's a good idea to not require the DM to come up with a setting in which it's not plain simple to evade the Tarrasque, but this looks way to magical for this beast in my opinion.


    There is no reason to boost a Tarrasques damage. Or it's damage reduction. Or out of all thinks, it's regeneration/fast healing.


    Pounce is bad, it doesn't add to the fear factor. As soon as the Tarrasque pounces, someone is as good as dead. You have no fear from something that supprises you like that and leaves you no choice. Getting hit by the regular charge attack of the Tarrasque, this is inspiring fear and panic as the players see how much that hurt their characters and are told how many more pointy ends there are. It confronts them with the dilemma of wanting to avoid any full attacks while at the same time realizing, that you won't win against 40 regeneration with spring attacks. That kind of a dilemma is what gaming table horror is about. By allowing the Tarrasque to full attack anyway whenever it attacks, by this you take it away.


    The Tarrasque is good as it is. Unless you are playing epic or something. But then you don't need to write a "fix", but a new monster, same flavor. Name maybe "Elder Tarrasque" or whatever.
    Last edited by Maraxus1; 2011-10-08 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Aren't good saves 2+1/2 HD, and bad saves 1/3 HD? That's what Tribble says, anyway.'
    You are right, so its final saves should be +32/+22/+25. Your tarrasque has an extra +5 to will save that is unaccounted for.

    Why would you "fix" the tarrasque by giving it more of the same? No, what you have done is making a creature that is allready way, way to strong for it's CR in a normal fight even stronger.
    The problem is that the current tarrasque has several glaring weaknesses as is. To contrast, simply compare it to a cr20 wyrm black dragon npc. Everything the tarrasque lacks, that is a problem.

    First is its poor will save. A slow spell will reduce it to 1 pathetic attack/round. Let's be realistic here. Most high-level parties will be running around with immunity to fear and grapple active (or at least be able to access such defenses at a moment's notice). So frightful presence and swallow whole are for most part, useless. At the moment, it is possible for lv14 parties to defeat it (barring the wish requirement).

    No recourse against flyers, as well as a lack of magical support.

    It is strong in the sense that it can potentially one-**** a PC with a full-attack, but that just means that the players will go out of their way to avoid this, thereby making a mockery of the battle. So the only way for this to not be a joke fight is to set it up so that the tarrasque gets to fight on its terms, not the PCs'.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maraxus1 View Post
    Why would you "fix" the tarrasque by giving it more of the same? No, what you have done is making a creature that is allready way, way to strong for it's CR in a normal fight even stronger.
    For all the reasons Runestar pointed out and more, the Tarrasque is a horribly designed monster.

    With this, it's an incredible beatstick, sure, but that's still all it is.

    Unless you want an even meaner Tarrasque for epic games (don't forget to increase the CR acordingly), you need to undo most of the changes you have made.
    There are several threads around here about how to kill the Tarrasque at single-digit levels. The Tarrasque sucks.

    And the CR should be higher, but I would need to playtest it to see how it looks.

    The Speed. - You went way over the top but bringing the Tarrasque en par in speed with a mounted character sounds reasonable. But then again, there is the Rush ability already...
    "Oh no! It's slowly moving towards us!" The Tarrasque needs a speed boost, and Rush is just a ****ty ability.

    The earthbinding ability. - Yes, it's a good idea to not require the DM to come up with a setting in which it's not plain simple to evade the Tarrasque, but this looks way to magical for this beast in my opinion.
    Check the type. In every single setting that the Tarrasque exists in, it's explicitly artificially created, too.

    It's a simple fix, and one of my favorite monsters in 4E is the Tarrasque as a result. What other ways to allow it to fight fliers are there? You can make it fly, which looks stupid. You can give it a jumping ability like Pathfinder does, which both doesn't work and looks incredibly stupid. You can give it a ranged attack, but I can't think of one that could threaten fliers that wouldn't look stupid, and I like the idea of the Tarrasque as a very close-combat, physical monster.

    Pounce is bad, it doesn't add to the fear factor...
    That is a certainly an opinion. One I disagree with, and one I suspect most other people would disagree with as well.

    But it's not killing a character in one hit. 127 average damage on a full attack isn't going to kill a melee character and the squishy types are going to have ways to avoid it or they won't be in range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    You are right, so its final saves should be +32/+22/+25. Your tarrasque has an extra +5 to will save that is unaccounted for.
    Steadfast Determination down in the feat section lets you key Will off of Con instead of Wis. That's where the boost is coming from.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-08 at 09:42 AM.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Kick-ass. I'm using this tarrasque from now on. I might allow it to use three Stone Dragon strikes in a round, though- as is, the full attack routine will almost always be superior to using two Stone Dragon strikes. That would make its normal full attack series either six natural weapon attacks for massive damage, or attacking with Mountain Tombstone Strike, Earthstrike Quake, and Ancient Mountain Hammer. That's half the attacks for 2d6 CON damage, +12d6 regular damage, and a massive burst that knocks people over. Seems appropriate to me.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    When I read pounce, I started laughing uncontrollably. It's hard to imagine a Tarrasque pouncing on anything (being so massive and tending to move fairly slow). However, this by no means is a reason to change the word (as pounce is used correctly, describing the attack type), it is just funny to me.

    If you want to be extraordinarily evil, change his reflective hide to include:

    "His hide reverberates when struck by magical energy. When a spell would effect the Tarrasque, or succeeds in a ranged touch attack, it reverberates and generates an Anti-Magic Field. Roll 1d12 and 1d10. The 1d12 will determine direction (as a clock, with the Tarrasque's nose being 12 o'clock) and the 1d10 determines how far away from the edge of the Tarasque's model the field is active (a 5 ft square for every point on the 1d10). The Anti-Magic Field has a caster level of 30 with the following exception: Its duration is 5 rounds + 1 for every level of the spell that caused the reverberation. If the initial spell was reflected, then the field lasts for an additional 5 rounds."


    Why? Well what could be worse than fighting something that is immune to half your magic, reflects the other half? If doing anything magical to it also generates a random anti-magic field. Add in the no-flying rule and this thing becomes even more terrifying.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    I think this definitely a step in the right direction, though the Earthbinding Aura just means more careful planning on how to get mobility back. Metamagic Rod of Shaping + Antimagic Field for a donut of keeping flight/teleport or Persisting Invoke Magic with an Antimagic Field would do it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, as that's the party throwing resources to deal with it and making it somewhat harder on themselves to maintain normal resources. The Tarrasque isn't something you just run into, guns blazing, it requires careful planning, which Earthbinding Aura creates.

    As for dealing with magic and other options, the Tarrasque does have a cult devoted to it...

    As for the feat, it's definitely neat, though it feels kind of late and not likely to show up except in near-epic or epic games, when the Tarrasque is meant to show up, so I'd personally make it happen earlier, in the ECL 12-15 area, when you get to actually play with it some, not when the final battle happens and you then retire your Crusader for rolling up a new character.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    One thing that I find a bit odd, though not bad mechanically is that the damage from swallow whole might activate awesome cleave. But then again, it can easily be explained.

    "The beast swallows the armored priest in a single bite and soon your companion's screams of agony are interrupted by a loud swallowing sound. Seemingly invigorated by the meal the giant takes a swipe at the general at his feet, launching him into the air and into a nearby tree."

    There's an idea for you, give it some kind of ability to force people to move, kind of like a dungeoncrasher perhaps?
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Kick-ass. I'm using this tarrasque from now on. I might allow it to use three Stone Dragon strikes in a round, though- as is, the full attack routine will almost always be superior to using two Stone Dragon strikes. That would make its normal full attack series either six natural weapon attacks for massive damage, or attacking with Mountain Tombstone Strike, Earthstrike Quake, and Ancient Mountain Hammer. That's half the attacks for 2d6 CON damage, +12d6 regular damage, and a massive burst that knocks people over. Seems appropriate to me.
    Hm. Three strikes would work. You can't do it every turn (or need to go progressively down the ladder of strike level), because you need to refresh...

    Think I'll bump it up to three.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerusthegreat View Post
    When I read pounce, I started laughing uncontrollably. It's hard to imagine a Tarrasque pouncing on anything (being so massive and tending to move fairly slow). However, this by no means is a reason to change the word (as pounce is used correctly, describing the attack type), it is just funny to me.
    When I put that in there, I immediately imagined a Colossal+++++ creature treating the Tarrasque like a housecat and spritzing it in the face with a small lake when it destroys a country.

    If you want to be extraordinarily evil, change his reflective hide to include:
    I don't want to be that evil. Spellcasters are already reduced to walking, that's humiliation enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I think this definitely a step in the right direction, though the Earthbinding Aura just means more careful planning on how to get mobility back. Metamagic Rod of Shaping + Antimagic Field for a donut of keeping flight/teleport or Persisting Invoke Magic with an Antimagic Field would do it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, as that's the party throwing resources to deal with it and making it somewhat harder on themselves to maintain normal resources. The Tarrasque isn't something you just run into, guns blazing, it requires careful planning, which Earthbinding Aura creates.
    Yep. It does make you strategize.

    Although you still couldn't magically fly, by RAW. Even if you create a donut of antimagic, the aura would still function inside the space.

    As for dealing with magic and other options, the Tarrasque does have a cult devoted to it...
    Heh. I was actually thinking about doing the Tarrasque as an Elder Evil. It fits the mold pretty well. Might still do that.

    Also thinking about introducing an optional plot hook in the form of an artifact that can depower the Tarrasque, reducing it to CR 10-ish, allowing a lower-level party to fight it.

    As for the feat, it's definitely neat, though it feels kind of late and not likely to show up except in near-epic or epic games, when the Tarrasque is meant to show up, so I'd personally make it happen earlier, in the ECL 12-15 area, when you get to actually play with it some, not when the final battle happens and you then retire your Crusader for rolling up a new character.
    Well, you have to fight the Tarrasque to get it. I'd also have to scale back the benefits some, because they're a pretty unilateral power-up to Stone Dragon.

    Hm. Maybe a ECL 12-ish version that only requires you to have seen the tarrasque in action, and then the current version as one that requires you to have slain the tarrasque. I'll do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by drakir_nosslin
    One thing that I find a bit odd, though not bad mechanically is that the damage from swallow whole might activate awesome cleave. But then again, it can easily be explained.

    "The beast swallows the armored priest in a single bite and soon your companion's screams of agony are interrupted by a loud swallowing sound. Seemingly invigorated by the meal the giant takes a swipe at the general at his feet, launching him into the air and into a nearby tree."
    Didn't think about it, but it works.

    There's an idea for you, give it some kind of ability to force people to move, kind of like a dungeoncrasher perhaps?
    Stone Dragon has that covered. The Tarrasque can throw people a couple hundred feet with some of the strikes there.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-08 at 11:34 AM.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    Whoops. I just added the boosted Cha to it and called it a day. I'll recalculate. That kind of makes the DC suck, though. Hm. Base it off of Strength, maybe?
    You cut the original tarrasque's HD by 1/3, so that's going to cut the save DCs of his attacks too.




    Several - but all use Strength for the DC.
    Ah, very true.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    Stone Dragon has that covered. The Tarrasque can throw people a couple hundred feet with some of the strikes there.
    That's what I get for never moving outside the mountain hammer line. I really need to take a closer look on the Stone Dragon discipline.

    Anyway, thumbs up to you! It's a nice challenge for a high-leveled party, much better design compared to the old one.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    I like. Especially the greatly increased speed of the thing.

    Playing into that, for another way of attacking flyers and long-distance snipers, how about an ability that lets him do some kind of jumping bite attack? Sort of like:

    Jump Stike- As a full-round action, the Tarrasque can jump up to 1000 feet in any direction (including straight up) and make a single bite attack. If he hits, he can use his Improved Grab and Swallow Whole abilities.

    I don't know about flavor, but that would scare the **** out of me.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I like. Especially the greatly increased speed of the thing.

    Playing into that, for another way of attacking flyers and long-distance snipers, how about an ability that lets him do some kind of jumping bite attack? Sort of like:

    Jump Stike- As a full-round action, the Tarrasque can jump up to 1000 feet in any direction (including straight up) and make a single bite attack. If he hits, he can use his Improved Grab and Swallow Whole abilities.

    I don't know about flavor, but that would scare the **** out of me.
    He's the size of a house. If he were to jump like that, he'd create an earthquake upon landing.

    ...Come to think of it, that would be awesome. You could make it like the Earthquake spell or Earthstrike Quake, only with a larger radius, and extra damage. Also, anything it lands on takes damage, too, and is automatically pinned beneath 'rubble (as in the Earthquake rules text) until the Big T moves off of it. I think that making it like this makes it pretty damn badass.

    If you were to do that, then obviously you'd have to list its Jump modifier, since the two kind of go hand-in-hand.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2011-10-08 at 02:54 PM.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    You cut the original tarrasque's HD by 1/3, so that's going to cut the save DCs of his attacks too.
    Yeah, but it's supposed to have a higher CR!

    Bah, I'll just make stuff up and then justify it after the fact.

    Though I really just wanted to try to avoid having a giant-ass bag of HP, and cutting the HP down by 1/4 seemed like a good way to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by drakir_nosslin View Post
    That's what I get for never moving outside the mountain hammer line. I really need to take a closer look on the Stone Dragon discipline.
    Honestly, Stone Dragon is kinda crappy. Certainly the worst of the disciplines. It's already lackluster compared to most of the other disciplines, and then it has the huge problem of being unusable off the ground, in a game where fliers rule after a certain point. The easy prereqs and universal access to Stone Dragon make me think this was intentional, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Playing into that, for another way of attacking flyers and long-distance snipers, how about an ability that lets him do some kind of jumping bite attack? Sort of like:
    He doesn't really need a way of attacking fliers, since nobody can fly within range. Well, if you had natural flight, and then stuck yourself in an antimagic field, sure, but then you're plinking away at him with a non-magical bow.

    And I would like the ability to escape him, if not fight him. He has plot-level immunity to damage. Making him almost impossible to get away from would make a lot of the campaigns you could build around him very hard to design.

    Jump Stike- As a full-round action, the Tarrasque can jump up to 1000 feet in any direction (including straight up) and make a single bite attack. If he hits, he can use his Improved Grab and Swallow Whole abilities.

    I don't know about flavor, but that would scare the **** out of me.
    Eeeeeh. It could be scary, but it's too comical for my tastes. Pounce and Rampage take care of the fast, hard-hitting angle.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-08 at 03:03 PM.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    About that AOE...I think that Lateral has an idea here.

    It could be like the dreaded Long Gui from FF XIII, where the tarrasque just lifts a foot and slams it into the ground, and everything within range takes damage, gets knocked prone, and maybe gets stunned?

    ... ooooor...if we wanted to be really evil, you could give the tarrasque's foot stomp a great thunderclap ability (Evocation, Sonic, Spell Compendium). 3 save-or-sucks, targeting 3 different saves, with a range of...oh, let's say, everything within 300 feet that's touching the ground when he stomps. Save DC based on Strength, usable every 1d4 rounds.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    About that AOE...I think that Lateral has an idea here.

    It could be like the dreaded Long Gui from FF XIII, where the tarrasque just lifts a foot and slams it into the ground, and everything within range takes damage, gets knocked prone, and maybe gets stunned?
    *coughearthstrikequakecough*

    No stunning, but everything within 300 600 feet needs to make a DC 43 save or go prone.

    ... ooooor...if we wanted to be really evil, you could give the tarrasque's foot stomp a great thunderclap ability (Evocation, Sonic, Spell Compendium). 3 save-or-sucks, targeting 3 different saves, with a range of...oh, let's say, everything within 300 feet that's touching the ground when he stomps. Save DC based on Strength, usable every 1d4 rounds.
    You've apparently been reading my mind. I originally had earthstrike quake doing some sonic damage in addition to it's normal effects. I removed it when I was trying to trim down the modifications to Stone Dragon.

    Think I should add that back in?
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-08 at 04:00 PM.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    If you want lower HP buts the benefits of higher HD, you could always raise the HD back up and reduce the attributes.

    I mean, 30 con is still a lot, but a 40hd tarrasque with 30 con instead of 40 would have 620 hp, almost the same as now. And since fort is a good save, the +5 you lose from fort by reducing con is made up for from the extra HD.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    Eeeeeh. It could be scary, but it's too comical for my tastes. Pounce and Rampage take care of the fast, hard-hitting angle.
    Yeah, high jumps are kind of comical. Jumping up, coming down, and smashing into the ground with enough force to demolish an entire city? That's badass.

    Also, 1000 feet is far enough away to preclude spot checks if you're in a city; all of a sudden, the whole city's in ruins and there's a giant Godzilla monster in the middle of Tokyo eating everything in sight.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2011-10-08 at 04:01 PM.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    If you want lower HP buts the benefits of higher HD, you could always raise the HD back up and reduce the attributes.

    I mean, 30 con is still a lot, but a 40hd tarrasque with 30 con instead of 40 would have 620 hp, almost the same as now. And since fort is a good save, the +5 you lose from fort by reducing con is made up for from the extra HD.
    True. Though I do have basically everything I want working with the current HD, so I'm not sure if I want to change it just for the sake of changing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Yeah, high jumps are kind of comical. Jumping up, coming down, and smashing into the ground with enough force to demolish an entire city? That's badass.
    Hmmmmm. Still not sure. If I were going to do something like that, I'd do it without the jumping, because honestly I just can't imagine the Big T jumping without making it look incredibly silly in my head.

    One idea I did have when I was writing this (that got scrapped), was tying in the Earthbinding Aura to some other abilities, one of which was the ability to press everything within the area into the ground. Which would have served a similar function of apocalyptic city-killing. Maybe I should resurrect that.

    Also, 1000 feet is far enough away to preclude spot checks if you're in a city; all of a sudden, the whole city's in ruins and there's a giant Godzilla monster in the middle of Tokyo eating everything in sight.
    That was the whole point of Rampage! Take a map of a city. Starting at a wall, draw a 600 ft. long, 50 ft. wide line through it.

    That is now all rubble (I can't imagine there being a lot that could stand in the way of the Tarrasque hitting it three times with a Mountain Hammer every other round).

    EDIT: Also added in a cheat sheet of the Tarrasque's maneuvers and the changes Unhewed Dragon makes.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-10-08 at 04:12 PM.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    *coughearthstrikequakecough*

    No stunning, but everything within 300 600 feet needs to make a DC 43 save or go prone.
    That's what I'm talking about!

    You've apparently been reading my mind. I originally had earthstrike quake doing some sonic damage in addition to it's normal effects. I removed it when I was trying to trim down the modifications to Stone Dragon.

    Think I should add that back in?
    Well, actually great thunderclap doesn't deal any damage. Just creatures within the range need to make a Will save or be stunned, a Reflex save or fall prone, and a Fort save or be deafened. (Deafen is a great spellcaster debuff).

    But hey, an earthquake strike with sonic damage sounds good too!

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Behold! A homebrew fix of Stone Dragon that makes it not only usable, but totally awesome.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    More of a flavor complaint I guess, but, I just can't imagine the Tarrasque not having to eat. Eating seems to be its primary motivation. In fact, it usually eats just about everything.
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Denomar View Post
    More of a flavor complaint I guess, but, I just can't imagine the Tarrasque not having to eat. Eating seems to be its primary motivation. In fact, it usually eats just about everything.
    It doesn't need to, it wants to. Very, very much.

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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    I am 100% happy with this

    If you want to make me 110% happy, give the beast a breathe weapon (plasma, of course) and presto! you gave us Godzilla.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Tarrasque [3.5, Fix, ToB, PEACH]

    Hmm. This is pretty good, although I personally dislike maneuvers. Dunno why, I just don't.

    My biggest problem with this is Earthbound Aura. Blocking magical transportation I approve of. Natural flight? Not so much. As I understand it from reading, this is always active, even while the Tarrasque is in its dormant period. If I recall, he remains dormant for months at a shot. So any bugs, birds, bats, dragons, winged humanoids, or motorized aircraft (in a more modern campaign) are groundbound in ten miles of him. This will play merry cob with the environment around him as a whole. This kind of power would, IMHO, raise his classification well above "boss monster" into "near minor evil deity". I wouldn't throw this thing at anything below a level 30 party as it stands now (and I GM strictly gestalt games). If you want it to be that strong, that's fine, but as you have it now, it's definitely more than CR20.

    I highly approve of your suggestion to create an artifact to make the Tarrasque a CR10ish challenge, Mr. Bookworm. Use that, the original Tarrasque from the MM and this one here, and you have a recurring villain-monster with very little modification. It even creates its own plot if you stop and think about it for a little bit.

    This is just my two cents, hope someone finds it useful.

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