Deities & Demigods (4e)

[Surrealistik]

Nono, you misunderstood. I was not saying any of those boss fights will be a simple rock papers scissors fight. What I'm saying is that these fights would have a fair degree of fairness, yes, but that shouldn't be the only measurement you use. Rock paper scissors being a good example of a completely fair game. As an example: A heroic tier monster that immobilizes and prones at-will could certainly be challenging to a party with a few melee characters, but in no way does that mean its fun. Don't get me wrong it COULD be a great time all around, but will be so in spite of the static challenge. Same goes for the mass dominate.

Essentially I'm saying your metrics for fun are both off. You say that the fun will come from a challenging encounter. You've attempted to make a challenging and fair fight. Fair enough, I think there are some decent aspects of both those, but neither of those equates to being fun. Calculus homework may be fair and challenging, but I'd rather not spend five hours doing it.

I never equated challenging to be fun; you misunderstand me. The entertainment, as with any other combat that involves effort, comes from the use of precise, well-planned, highly synergistic and effective inter-party tactics to achieve success, and the satisfaction that comes with it. While the encounter may be more unforgiving, and difficult than standard challenging combats, that core element of fun nonetheless remains for those few builds and parties that are equal to it.

Second, I believe you overestimate the impact of the control options both Solos possess on a properly equipped party, particularly now that daily item use restrictions have been lifted. Again, anti-condition interrupts, save granters and enhancers all provide the PCs enough leeway to get the job done. Hard control is there to either defeat the unprepared party, or to put a prepared one on a clock. It's also worth noting that Asmodeus' mass dominate is a Recharge 6+; it's a powerful trick, but it is one that will only be pulled off typically twice an encounter at most. Again, something a prepared, optimized party can certainly deal with and surpass.

EDIT: I really don't think they're terribly designed monsters given their purpose , but they could use some fixing within that realm, and those problems become magnified when considering the more average party, and hence why they're a stark contrast to these. We're aiming to supplement the majority of DnD players so the monsters we stat out will be different in aim, we can both agree to that, I think.

Yes, we have different aims. That said, I don't appreciate people talking smack about designs they apparently don't understand the intended context and premise of. By the way, if you have constructive feedback to offer about either solo given said context and premise, feel free to post in the thread. As you can see over its history, I have acted on and incorporated ideas and responses from others.

[Meta]

3 down. I think next I'm gonna go ahead and adjust the math on the current gods before moving onto any newbies.

Any suggestions on how to improve Tiamat, Vecna, Bahamut, or Torog? Lolth seems aces already.

I feel as though Torog is already a monster, personally. Tiamat seems solid as well. Vecna and Bahamut I'm not as sure about.

After checking out Lolth's defenses to make sure I wasn't crazy, I think Avandra's AC should go back to 50. The will can stay lower if you insist.

Edit: Give Bahamut a double claw, because right now there is no reason to ever use it, and up the damage on his breaths a bit? Dropping grabbed enemies definitely seems like a good way to get some damage with him

No recharge on one Avandra power.

[Gralamin]

{table=head]God|Level
Bahamut| 36
Lolth| 35
Vecna| 35
Torog| 34
Tiamat| 35[/table]

Avandra, at least to me, doesn't seem as if she should be as high level as Tiamat or Vecna. I would probably make her level 34. Asmodeus is probably okay as a 37.

Then again I would of made Lolth a level 34.

[Zeb The Troll]

Troll Patrol: Moved to a more appropriate forum.

[LudiDrizzt]

Aaaaaaaaaand the attention to it drops like a rock. Thanks mods.

[Meta]

I'd be fine lowering Avandra to 34 if that was desired. That said, torog is the only 34 and he's a cripple.

[Bearpunch]

I think Vecna is pretty solid, not great, but solid.

[gkathellar]

Asmodeus really needs some kind of, "Just as planned! Muwahahaha!" ability. Otherwise he's just some guy, not the most hilariously ridiculous schemer in the multiverse.

[Meta]

Last I knew, he's still tinkering with Asmodeus, but yes, I think just getting the chance to fight him 1v5 would require quite a plan to begin with.

I aim to have Ioun done tonight

Edit: @my good friend surreal, In the interest of keeping this thread more on topic, if you wish to defend your designs further feel free to PM me or start a new topic. I stand by my points and clearly you do yours. I do not mean to be rude by avoiding providing constructive comments, but I would take your monsters in a completely different direction and start from scratch with a new framework if asked to work within your design goals, and if you really wish to hear them PM would be the place.

[Surrealistik]

Edit: @my good friend surreal, In the interest of keeping this thread more on topic, if you wish to defend your designs further feel free to PM me or start a new topic. I stand by my points and clearly you do yours. I do not mean to be rude by avoiding providing constructive comments, but I would take your monsters in a completely different direction and start from scratch with a new framework if asked to work within your design goals, and if you really wish to hear them PM would be the place.

You do understand there is a thread specifically for those monsters that you can post in, right?

[Meta]

Ohhh the necromancer archetype never interested me much.

Still at work so Ioun miiiiiiight be a bit slow

[Meta]

Been fiddling with Ioun a bit. Ended up being a busy weekend so apologies if terribad:

Ioun
Level 35 Solo Controller Initiative: +25

STR: 26 (+25) DEX: 24 (+24) WIS: 34 (+29)
CON: 28 (+26) INT: 36(+30) CHA: 26 (+25)

HP: 1264
AC: 49 Fort: 47 Ref: 49 Will: 51
Immune: Illusion, characters under 20
Saving Throws: +5; see also Immortal Resilience
Speed 6, Fly 10, teleport 10
Action Points: 2

Traits:

Phantasmagoria (Fire, Lightning, Cold, Poison, Acid, Radiant, Necrotic, Thunder)
Enemies who start their turn within 20 squares of Ioun takes 15 fire and cold damage, 15 necrotic and radiant, 15 poison and acid damage, 15 lightning and thunder damage

All is Revealed
Ioun’s attacks always target a foe’s lowest defense unless otherwise noted

Standard Actions:
Prismatic Blade (weapon, fire, cold, acid) Melee
+37 to hit 4d4 + 32 damage and Ioun’s choice of one of the following effects: AC reduced by 5, immobilized, or takes 15 ongoing damage (save ends)

Prismatic Wave (implement, thunder, radiant) close blast 5
+35 to hit 2d12 +24 damage and is blinded eynt and knocked prone

Void Bomb (implement, cold, acid, necrotic) recharge 3,4,5,6 area burst 4 within 30
+36 to hit 5d6 + 36 damage and Ioun’s choice of one of the following: -4 to all defenses (save ends), -4 to attack rolls (save ends) or -4 healing surges.

Prismatic Onslaught (implement, cold, fire, lightning, acid, poison) recharge 6
Close burst 20 +36 to hit. 8d8 + 48 damage and 2 of the following effects: stunned, restrained, -3 to saving throws, or ongoing 30 damage all save ends.
Aftereffect: Dazed (save ends)


Minor Actions:

Prismatic Lance (implement, fire, radiant, poison) Range 20
+37 to hit 3d10 + 18 damage and target takes an extra 3d10 damage or grants CA (save ends)

Prismatic Shield recharge 4,5,6
Ioun receives a +5 to defenses against the next Weapon power to target her and if hit, the attacker is blind eynt.

Triggered Actions:

Prismatic Fury: Triggered when bloodied
Ioun uses a Prismatic Lance and automatically recharges Prismatic Onslaught

Immortal Resilience: At-will, when effected by a status
Make a saving throw even if one is normally allowed

Counterspell: 1/round, when targeted with an implement power, Ioun makes a prismatic lance attack against the triggering opponent. If a hit, the target’s power has no effect. If a crit, the opponent becomes the target of its power instead.

[DragonBaneDM]

I love it, dude.

The only thing I might change and/or reflavor is Counterspell. Magic is a big part of Ioun's portfolio, yeah, but it makes me wonder what all we're gonna do with Corellon, who's the actual god of magic.

I think it's a cool idea, but I'd extend it a little bit. Like a perfect all around counter to one thing a turn. That might be overpowered, but it rewards attacking Ioun with weapons more. I'd see her as being all knowledgeable about martial techniques, too!

[Meta]

Hmmm, What would make it mechanically?

I liked Counterspell because it had that very technical feel to it, like Ioun would know how a spell worked and know the fundamental opposite so exactly how to counter it. Corellon I think I would have more "hit me with magic and I hit everyone with my magic" sort of deals, but I'm open to your idea or any others if ya expand on it good sir.